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(Talking Points Memo)   George Zimmerman wants a private meeting with the parents of Trayvon Martin. Preferably in a dark alley on a cool, rainy day   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 551
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8290 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2012 at 3:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-19 03:41:16 PM

LordJiro: zippolight2002: Weaver95: 2 grams:
Becasue the evidence supports that while Zimmerman may be an idiot, he did nothing illegal. His position is self defense while Martin had attacked him..

except that the evidence suggests that Zimmerman provoked the fight.

Who swung first? All evidence points to Martin. Doesn't matter who 'provoked' it. You are not REQUIRED to ablidge in a fight. As soon as Martin escalated it to a physical altercation, he became the aggressor.

What evidence is that? The only eyewitness didn't see the beginning of the fight, so he'd have no way of knowing who threw the first punch. So what evidence are you looking at?


You really think there wouldn't be any sort of marks on Martin if Zimmerman threw the first punch?
 
2012-04-19 03:42:03 PM
NEVER FORGET

brightcove01.brightcove.com
 
2012-04-19 03:42:26 PM

Weaver95: zippolight2002: Weaver95: zippolight2002: Weaver95: 2 grams:
Becasue the evidence supports that while Zimmerman may be an idiot, he did nothing illegal. His position is self defense while Martin had attacked him..

except that the evidence suggests that Zimmerman provoked the fight.

Who swung first? All evidence points to Martin. Doesn't matter who 'provoked' it. You are not REQUIRED to ablidge in a fight. As soon as Martin escalated it to a physical altercation, he became the aggressor.

actually, 'all evidence' points to Zimmerman starting the fight. Martin was walking home..Zimmerman followed the kid around and went after him.

That's not starting a fight.... that's being creepy.

nope - that's a 'credible threat'...against Martin. And given Zimmerman's history of aggression, it makes sense.


Judging Zimmerman by his history of over-aggression makes you part of the mob. Judging Martin by his history of 'having a baggie with weed residue' makes you smrt.
 
Bf+
2012-04-19 03:42:29 PM
Don't do it!
www.ackbar.org
 
2012-04-19 03:43:04 PM

I_C_Weener: Silly law. Bad outcome. But regardless, Zimmerman's story is consistent with the evidence we know. Legally, that is hard to beat in court. Emotional appeal only goes so far.


oh I don't know. Zimmerman himself is rather stupid. throw in his history of aggression, plus the fact that it's kind of suspicious that the survivor gets to make up whatever story he wants and well...jury nullification of the 'stand your ground' law isn't out of the question.
 
2012-04-19 03:43:12 PM

eraser8: Silly Jesus: [www.anunews.net image 320x186]

amiright?

Do you have a point?


I was just summing up the thread in handy picture form.
 
2012-04-19 03:43:12 PM

Weaver95: 2 grams:
Becasue the evidence supports that while Zimmerman may be an idiot, he did nothing illegal. His position is self defense while Martin had attacked him..

except that the evidence suggests that Zimmerman provoked the fight.


That's why we need it to go to the courts. I was simply answering WHY some people think he may be innocent. Hell we've got folks in this thread saying things like "Well he brought a gun".

Weaver95: 2 grams:
Becasue the evidence supports that while Zimmerman may be an idiot, he did nothing illegal. His position is self defense while Martin had attacked him..

except that the evidence suggests that Zimmerman provoked the fight.


I heard the prosocution was claiming that, but I didn't know of any proof?
 
2012-04-19 03:43:22 PM

zippolight2002: You really think there wouldn't be any sort of marks on Martin if Zimmerman threw the first punch


You really think there wouldn't be evidence on Martin's hands if HE threw a punch?
 
2012-04-19 03:43:23 PM

LordJiro: Weaver95: zippolight2002: Weaver95: zippolight2002: Weaver95: 2 grams:
Becasue the evidence supports that while Zimmerman may be an idiot, he did nothing illegal. His position is self defense while Martin had attacked him..

except that the evidence suggests that Zimmerman provoked the fight.

Who swung first? All evidence points to Martin. Doesn't matter who 'provoked' it. You are not REQUIRED to ablidge in a fight. As soon as Martin escalated it to a physical altercation, he became the aggressor.

actually, 'all evidence' points to Zimmerman starting the fight. Martin was walking home..Zimmerman followed the kid around and went after him.

That's not starting a fight.... that's being creepy.

nope - that's a 'credible threat'...against Martin. And given Zimmerman's history of aggression, it makes sense.

Judging Zimmerman by his history of over-aggression makes you part of the mob. Judging Martin by his history of 'having a baggie with weed residue' makes you smrt.


I said what now?
 
2012-04-19 03:44:15 PM

Weaver95: philotech: Weaver95: 2 grams:
Becasue the evidence supports that while Zimmerman may be an idiot, he did nothing illegal. His position is self defense while Martin had attacked him..

except that the evidence suggests that Zimmerman provoked the fight.

Provocation is not assault... Throwing the first punch is assault.

the guy with the gun picked a fight with an unarmed kid. the kid ends up dead. And...people think the guy with the gun is the hero?

that's f*cked up.


Not sure I ever said anything about a hero here... But if someone was following me; I would focus on escaping, not doubling back to throw some punches. This is clearly a case of 2 morons meeting in the night...
 
2012-04-19 03:44:17 PM

2 grams: I heard the prosocution was claiming that, but I didn't know of any proof


There is a phone call between Martin and his girlfriend that hasn't been released.
 
2012-04-19 03:44:19 PM

I_C_Weener: All I'll say on this is that the evidence supports Zimmerman's statement.


Zimmerman's statement certainly supports Zimmerman's statement. I'm not sure how much the evidence does.

The prosecutor certainly disagrees with your assessment.
 
2012-04-19 03:44:48 PM
A lawyer working to taint the jury pool as if the media, including Fark, wasn't doing an bang up job of that already.
 
2012-04-19 03:44:54 PM
dammit...I have to be at the gym in 26 minutes. ok, actually - I have a date tonight and have to get moving.

someone take notes for me! I want to know how this thread turns out.
 
2012-04-19 03:45:08 PM
As for these claims of eye witnesses I have yet to find one that saw the start of the altercation. One stated he heard yelling then shots, the rest appear to have come in after the shots.

If you are claiming eye-witness statements ad proof one way or the other the onus is on you to provide the evidence that proves your case. So please, point us to the transcripts.
 
2012-04-19 03:45:19 PM

cameroncrazy1984: zippolight2002: You really think there wouldn't be any sort of marks on Martin if Zimmerman threw the first punch

You really think there wouldn't be evidence on Martin's hands if HE threw a punch?


Touche... however it does depend on how he hit him. IIRC he punched once, than started slamming the back of Zimmerman's head into the ground. So there would be very little in the way of damage on his hands.
 
2012-04-19 03:45:22 PM
Weaver95:

You should go check out the Charlie Manson parole thread. Mr Beers was in there wanting to know why Charlie was still in prison when he didn't murder anyone himself, and then he compared Charlie not getting parole to Zimmerman being charged.
 
2012-04-19 03:45:25 PM

Silly Jesus: eraser8: Silly Jesus: [www.anunews.net image 320x186]

amiright?

Do you have a point?

I was just summing up the thread in handy picture form.


How so?

How did you picture sum up the thread? Be specific, please.
 
2012-04-19 03:46:21 PM

Weaver95: dammit...I have to be at the gym in 26 minutes. ok, actually - I have a date tonight and have to get moving.

someone take notes for me! I want to know how this thread turns out.


It's Florida, we'll repeat this in 4 months when some other retard event occurs and an idiotic Justice system takes a swing at enforcing emotionally-based laws.
 
2012-04-19 03:46:32 PM
He of all people should know now to stop and re-think things.
 
2012-04-19 03:47:18 PM

gilgigamesh: 9beers: Weaver95: nothing in the evidence says Martin was doing anything wrong.

Except violently assaulting somebody as is evidenced by an eye witness. Aside from that, Zimmerman calling the police non-emergency number and reporting a suspicious person also indicates that Martin was doing more than just walking home from the store.

I assume you've been following this case and are aware that he has been charged with second degree murder, right?

Second degree murder means he intentionally gunned the boy down in cold blood without the slightest provocation, let alone while under attack.


Yep, which he'll never be convicted of. You think that's an accident? This is the special prosecutor pushing the fall off onto the jury.
 
2012-04-19 03:48:48 PM
Sending Zimmerman to jail will not bring Trayvon back. You people need to let this go. Even if George shot Trayvon in cold blood, accidents do happen. Don't destroy any more lives, because three months from now, when the water has diluted the blood in the water, you sharks will never think of Trayvon or Zimmerman again.
 
2012-04-19 03:49:48 PM

spentmiles: Sending Zimmerman to jail will not bring Trayvon back.


That's not the point of sending Zimmerman to prison.
 
2012-04-19 03:50:16 PM

Weaver95: 9beers: Weaver95: except there's no evidence that actually happened.

Yes, there's no evidence of Martin assaulting Zimmerman, except for...

an eyewitness [unreliable]
a police report [incorrect]
paramedics [huh?]
a video [again - huh?]
neighbors who saw Zimmerman in bandages the next day [still not evidence of an attack]

Keep on derping.

you're the guy with the derptastic worldview. Zimmerman gunned down that kid in cold blood.


You have some weak ass rebuttals so far, I expect more outta you
 
2012-04-19 03:50:44 PM

cameroncrazy1984: You really think there wouldn't be evidence on Martin's hands if HE threw a punch?


I have no idea why people are running with this talking point. Are you really claiming that a person can not land a punch to another person without scraping or bruising their knuckles? That just doesn't make any sense at all.
 
2012-04-19 03:51:40 PM
This guy is hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LONUecnsMb8

Link
 
2012-04-19 03:51:40 PM

eraser8: philotech: Provocation is not assault... Throwing the first punch is assault.

That's not quite right, legally speaking. Assault is simply the credible THREAT to use force. It's not actually laying hands on another's person.

But, ignoring your ignorance, for the moment: who threw the first punch? Show your evidence.


In New York State assault as defined in the New York State Penal Code Article 120, requires an actual injury.

Apparently you forgot to check the legal meaning of the word in the jurisdiction of the person that you are attempting to troll. But, ignoring your ignorance, for the moment, How did Martin and Zimmerman end up in a physical altercation near Zimmerman's vehicle if Martin did not follow him back to it? Like I said, two morons meeting in the night. If he would have continued walking home, he'd still be alive.
 
2012-04-19 03:53:01 PM

spentmiles: Sending Zimmerman to jail will not bring Trayvon back. You people need to let this go. Even if George shot Trayvon in cold blood, accidents do happen. Don't destroy any more lives, because three months from now, when the water has diluted the blood in the water, you sharks will never think of Trayvon or Zimmerman again.


Yeah, it's not like second degree murder or voluntary manslaughter are crimes that are usually prosecuted and punished.
 
2012-04-19 03:53:13 PM

eraser8: Weaver95: I still don't understand why you think Zimmerman is innocent. nothing in the evidence says Martin was doing anything wrong.

I keep looking for an alternate explanation...but the Venn diagram of the Zimmerman-fan-club and the black-guy-is-always-wrong club seems to be a nearly perfect circle.


Really, as much as people try to make it all about race, I think where people fall on this issue has a lot more to do with their support for gun rights, self-defense, and vigilante justice.

A few years ago in my area there was an incident where a white teenager was shot dead by a middle-aged black man who claimed self-defense. Admittedly unlike the Zimmerman case, the teen was hardly innocent at the time (drunk and trying to steal cigarettes from an unlocked car), and the man was arrested immediately. Attitudes about the case appeared to play mostly down the liberal-conservative line with respect to gun control. When the guy was eventually acquitted on self-defense grounds, most liberals seemed to think it was a travesty with no justice for the teen and the Freepers were saying, "Good, that punk kid got what he deserved."
 
2012-04-19 03:53:25 PM

WhoIsWillo: SkinnyHead: I don't think a private meeting like that would be very good idea.

This is how bad of an idea this is.


You have no idea how bad I just lol'd at this.
 
2012-04-19 03:53:29 PM

SphericalTime: Weaver95: 9beers: "I'm sorry you didn't do a better job raising your son so that he didn't grow up thinking that violence was the answer".

I still don't understand why you think Zimmerman is innocent. nothing in the evidence says Martin was doing anything wrong.

He needs to believe. Accepting that there was something wrong with the actions of Zimmerman probably requires him to challenge his beliefs in a way that he can't accept.

It's sad, sort of.


Your argument is double edged and twice as sharp on the back swing. Be careful.

SpikeStrip: 9beers: Weaver95: except there's no evidence that actually happened.

Yes, there's no evidence of Martin assaulting Zimmerman, except for...

an eyewitness
a police report
paramedics
a video
neighbors who saw Zimmerman in bandages the next day

Keep on derping.

yeah. from the looks of him, i don't understand how he could even walk.

Link


That article is based on an ABC airing, that was retracted a bit later after video imaging clearly showed the gashes on the back of zimmerman's head. So any claim he wasnt wounded is moot, and not informed.

cameroncrazy1984: 9beers: cameroncrazy1984: That 100% proves that they were caused by Martin.

So you're saying that there was a second attacker in the grassy knoll?

No, I'm saying that it does not follow that Martin attacked just because Zimmerman has injuries.

You know. Logic.


Correct, he didnt attack, he defended.
 
2012-04-19 03:53:49 PM

philotech: But, ignoring your ignorance, for the moment, How did Martin and Zimmerman end up in a physical altercation near Zimmerman's vehicle if Martin did not follow him back to it?


Since Martin was killed in the grassy area between the two rows of houses, quite a distance from Zimmerman's vehicle, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying Zimmerman drove his vehicle into someone's back yard?
 
2012-04-19 03:54:00 PM

hbk72777: You have some weak ass rebuttals so far, I expect more outta you


9beers is defending a guy who hunted down and killed a kid in cold blood. Why does somebody need impressive rebuttals to make a good case that that was a farked up thing to do?
 
2012-04-19 03:56:57 PM

9beers: "I'm sorry you didn't do a better job raising your son so that he didn't grow up thinking that violence was the answer".


I thought the talking point was "We have to wait for all the evidence before passing judgement"?
 
2012-04-19 03:57:15 PM

SkinnyHead: I don't think a private meeting like that would be very good idea.


I... Uh... W... I agree!.

/Is the sky falling!?
//Did General Francisco Franco left his grave to haunt the living again!?
 
2012-04-19 03:57:44 PM
2 Grams, 9Beers, Zippolight2002, Silly Jesus. Any other idiots on Fark today?
 
2012-04-19 03:58:10 PM

eraser8: 9beers is defending a guy who hunted down and killed a kid in cold blood. Why does somebody need impressive rebuttals to make a good case that that was a farked up thing to do?


From what I've read of his posts, he seems to be claiming that while we don't know exactly what happened that night, there's no evidence that the events didn't occur in the manner that Zimmerman claims. There is also evidence that backs up his story while there seems to be none that disputes it. Given what we know so far, I agree that there's no way to convict him of a crime.
 
2012-04-19 03:58:25 PM
YES, another Zimm/Martin thread!!!!


Zimm's an idiot if he goes through with this 'talk to the parents' deal, nothing good will come of it for him. I still don't think he'll be convicted of anything, don't see how the state/feds can prove he was lying, and they have the burden to do so beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
2012-04-19 03:58:39 PM

WhoIsWillo: SkinnyHead: I don't think a private meeting like that would be very good idea.

This is how bad of an idea this is.


WhoisWillo, welcome to my favorites list! Would you like a beverage?
 
2012-04-19 03:58:45 PM

Cagey B: Richard Saunders: If you're feeling guilt, regret, remorse, Mr. Zimmerman (and I'm sure you are)

I have a hard time believing that he feels any of those things.


Believe it or not, the vast majority of people don't find shooting someone a pleasant experience, even if they feel it was ultimately necessary. There's a reason cops get put on the department shrink's schedule every time their weapon comes back short a cartridge.

eraser8: 9beers is defending a guy who hunted down and killed a kid in cold blood. Why does somebody need impressive rebuttals to make a good case that that was a farked up thing to do?


Dude, you realize that "cold blood" has an actual meaning, right? It's not just something you append to the end of "killed" for effect. In this case, it was definitely not cold blood, the two guys hadn't even seen each other until like 20 minutes before the incident. That's hot blood pretty much by definition, thus the murder 2 charge instead of murder 1.
 
2012-04-19 03:59:35 PM

Theaetetus: philotech: But, ignoring your ignorance, for the moment, How did Martin and Zimmerman end up in a physical altercation near Zimmerman's vehicle if Martin did not follow him back to it?

Since Martin was killed in the grassy area between the two rows of houses, quite a distance from Zimmerman's vehicle, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying Zimmerman drove his vehicle into someone's back yard?


Let's split the difference and say that it occurred midway between the car and the point where he lost sight of Martin and began walking back to the car. The point in case you missed it was that at a certain point Martin started following Zimmerman back to his car. Both are douches.
 
2012-04-19 03:59:49 PM

user68: From what I've read of his posts


You seem to have missed the posts full of latent racism, joy over the death of Martin, and enough logical inconsistencies to make baby Jesus cry.
 
2012-04-19 04:00:07 PM

philotech: In New York State assault as defined in the New York State Penal Code Article 120, requires an actual injury.


In Florida -- where this occurred -- the definition of assault is this: an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

philotech: How did Martin and Zimmerman end up in a physical altercation near Zimmerman's vehicle if Martin did not follow him back to it?


The altercation WASN'T near Zimmerman's vehicle. It was in a location accessible only by foot.

philotech: If he would have continued walking home, he'd still be alive.


Considering where Martin was killed, what are you basing that on?
 
2012-04-19 04:00:30 PM

philotech: The point in case you missed it was that at a certain point Martin started following Zimmerman back to his car.


And your proof of this? Beyond, you know, gut feeling.
 
2012-04-19 04:01:05 PM

spentmiles: Sending Zimmerman to jail will not bring Trayvon back. You people need to let this go. Even if George shot Trayvon in cold blood, accidents do happen. Don't destroy any more lives, because three months from now, when the water has diluted the blood in the water, you sharks will never think of Trayvon or Zimmerman again.


So, lets not put any murderers behind bars?
 
2012-04-19 04:01:49 PM

eraser8: philotech: Provocation is not assault... Throwing the first punch is assault.

That's not quite right, legally speaking. Assault is simply the credible THREAT to use force. It's not actually laying hands on another's person.

But, ignoring your ignorance, for the moment: who threw the first punch? Show your evidence.


I seem to be failing lately at explaining legal truisms all private citizens should be aware of, and I thank you for posting this.

Legal definitions =/= real world usage of words
 
2012-04-19 04:02:17 PM

sammyk: gilgigamesh: Dude is nuts. Out of control. He is the nightmare client, and any lawyer stupid enough to take him on deserves the misery that will ensue.

Casey Anthony was smart enough to STFU early on. If she acted like Zimmerman she would be behind bars. Zimmerman is going down hard. You never ever ever have any contact no matter how tiny with the victims family.


Casey Anthony had lots of contact with the victim's family. Just sayin....
 
2012-04-19 04:02:40 PM

philotech: Let's split the difference and say that it occurred midway between the car and the point where he lost sight of Martin


It didn't.
 
2012-04-19 04:03:06 PM

cameroncrazy1984: 2 grams: I heard the prosocution was claiming that, but I didn't know of any proof

There is a phone call between Martin and his girlfriend that hasn't been released.


When this first came out I've heard what the girlfriend claimed to have said; that Trayvon calls her and tells her he is being followed. She tells him to run. He said no he wasn't going to run then the phone gets dropped/call ended.

What happend next could be speculated either way to support either side.

There's now a 2nd call between MArtin and the girlfriend? I doubt that. You use the word "Released" Does that mean there's a copy (recording ) of it? That would be odd.
 
2012-04-19 04:03:47 PM
Can anyone else admit he's crazzy yet.
 
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