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(Washington Post)   Gaza residents disenchanted after finding Hamas is better at launching rockets than running a government   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Gaza, Hamas, palestinian militants, smuggling tunnels, Gazans, Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, Fatah, military officials  
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5819 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2012 at 12:39 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-19 11:32:21 AM  
Electricity is a rarity.

Only because Hamas makes it a rarity, because it refuses to deal with Israel and screws Egypt over and over again. They also sometimes shut it down themselves.

Gazans know it, and they are fed up as well.

Whether that means Hamas, an offshoot of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, has altered its extremist ideology is far from clear.

It is clear. They have constantly repeated that their ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel. So is Fatah's, they even said recently publicly that the reason they need national unity is to further Israel's destruction.

Notice that one thing is constant about the complaints against Hamas is the fact they are not doing terrorist attacks anymore.
 
2012-04-19 11:56:01 AM  

Tatsuma: Notice that one thing is constant about the complaints against Hamas is the fact they are not doing terrorist attacks anymore.


I'm shocked... SHOCKED that the Washington Post, which, like most major media outlets in the US, is renowned for its balanced, unbiased coverage of Israel, would reinforce your favorite narrative that all Palestinians are sub-human savages that deserve every tank shell fired through their living rooms. Shocked.
 
2012-04-19 12:07:27 PM  

Wendy's Chili: I'm shocked... SHOCKED that the Washington Post, which, like most major media outlets in the US, is renowned for its balanced, unbiased coverage of Israel, would reinforce your favorite narrative that all Palestinians are sub-human savages that deserve every tank shell fired through their living rooms. Shocked.


Except that this is what polls also show: the vast majority support terrorist attacks against civilians within the 1948 lines, and are disappointed that Hamas is not doing more.
 
2012-04-19 12:41:14 PM  
They have constantly repeated that their ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel.

Excuse me while I pretend to give a shiat.
 
2012-04-19 12:42:26 PM  

Tatsuma: Except that this is what polls also show: the vast majority support terrorist attacks against civilians within the 1948 lines, and are disappointed that Hamas is not doing more.


I'm glad Israel isn't letting you down in this way. Ethnic cleansing forever!
 
2012-04-19 12:42:33 PM  
This is generally the problem with revolutionary themed governments. They're good at stirring emotions and they're terrible at filling potholes.

This is why if you want the clerics of Iran to fall you don't play into their game of manufactured threats and constant tension.

But you do because it's easy to press your buttons.
 
2012-04-19 12:44:59 PM  

Rapmaster2000: This is generally the problem with revolutionary themed governments.


That's why smart sadistic fascists like Uncle Joe Stalin alway purged the original revolutionaries before establishing a government.

/Trotsky
 
2012-04-19 12:48:15 PM  

Jake Havechek: Rapmaster2000: This is generally the problem with revolutionary themed governments.

That's why smart sadistic fascists like Uncle Joe Stalin alway purged the original revolutionaries before establishing a government.

/Trotsky


He also kept up the constant tension of outside and internal threats. Whether it was "the wreckers" that intentionally made Soviet durable goods fall apart or simply the United States, they always had a reason that you had to rally around Joseph Stalin.
 
2012-04-19 12:51:03 PM  
Violence is easy. Governance, not so much.
 
2012-04-19 12:53:34 PM  

xxysyndrome: I'm glad Israel isn't letting you down in this way. Ethnic cleansing forever!


Yeah, ethnic cleansing

israelipalestinian.procon.org
 
2012-04-19 12:53:41 PM  

Rapmaster2000: This is why if you want the clerics of Iran to fall you don't play into their game of manufactured threats and constant tension.


The Likud party and the mullahs were made for each other. Keep saying the other is about to attack and scare people into voting for/not protesting against you.
 
2012-04-19 12:55:26 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Jake Havechek: Rapmaster2000: This is generally the problem with revolutionary themed governments.

That's why smart sadistic fascists like Uncle Joe Stalin alway purged the original revolutionaries before establishing a government.

/Trotsky

He also kept up the constant tension of outside and internal threats. Whether it was "the wreckers" that intentionally made Soviet durable goods fall apart or simply the United States, they always had a reason that you had to rally around Joseph Stalin.


and all this time I assumed that just because of his mustache.

That's the kind of mustache you would follow straight into hell... and they did.
 
2012-04-19 12:55:46 PM  
Clearly this is a sign of the end times.
 
2012-04-19 12:56:45 PM  

kid_icarus: Clearly this is a sign of the end times.


Yay!!! Time for some "End" signs
 
2012-04-19 12:57:08 PM  
Leaving nothing but worthless shards and Dream Dust in the aftermath...
 
2012-04-19 12:58:58 PM  

Tatsuma: xxysyndrome: I'm glad Israel isn't letting you down in this way. Ethnic cleansing forever!

Yeah, ethnic cleansing


uh, thanks for perfectly demonstrating my point?
 
2012-04-19 12:59:22 PM  
Well, better late than never.

/Now can we please give them a nation and be done with it?
//Also, turn Jerusalem into an independent city-state
///Sorry Tats, but this is how I feel personally
 
2012-04-19 12:59:23 PM  
I still think opening a "Gentlemen's Club" called "The Gaza Strip" featuring mid-east hotties would be gold. GOLD I TELL YOU!

/well, at least it would be a blast.
 
2012-04-19 12:59:24 PM  
You don't want hot headed rabble rousers in your government. The only instance where this has worked was after the American Revolution. Jefferson was not called "Mad Tom"(but not to his face) for no reason.

Revolutionaries have little to do once the revolution is over, and can even turn on the government they helped bring into being.

This follows the same logic as to why dictators, with the exception of the Taliban, do not consort or associate with terrorists, because they could turn on you out of boredom or hard feelings about not being compensated for their actions.
 
2012-04-19 01:03:11 PM  

Jake Havechek: Rapmaster2000: This is generally the problem with revolutionary themed governments.

That's why smart sadistic fascists like Uncle Joe Stalin alway purged the original revolutionaries before establishing a government.

/TrRotsky


Pot Peev
 
2012-04-19 01:03:48 PM  
Well, duh.

This is also a classic example of the "one man, one vote, one time" thing. Hamas won't allow another election if they can help it, and free speech is a fantasy in Gaza.

But our useful idiots pretend that Gaza's a working democracy, and that therefore we have no choice but to deal with Hamas.

Nope.
 
2012-04-19 01:05:38 PM  

xxysyndrome: uh, thanks for perfectly demonstrating my point?


Your point is that their population is about 8 times higher than it was at the creation of the state, with one of the fastest population growth rate on earth?

Yeah, how is that ethnic cleansing exactly?

CygnusDarius: //Also, turn Jerusalem into an independent city-state
///Sorry Tats, but this is how I feel personally


No need to apologize! This is your opinion, and you have every right to hold it. Even belief that Israel has no right to exist. You are calm and rational, so whatever you believe in I know that it doesn't come from either prejudice or ignorance.

I hang out and am friends with lots of people who have similar views to you regarding Israel. Even in Israel itself. Or even people with much harsher views than you do.

It's about where it comes from and what its based on, more than the opinion itself when it comes to creating friction


Also your opinion happens to be wrong and would lead to unmitigated disaster and bloodshed, but that's another topic altogether.
 
2012-04-19 01:06:33 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: This is also a classic example of the "one man, one vote, one time" thing. Hamas won't allow another election if they can help it, and free speech is a fantasy in Gaza.


It's not like Fatah is any better. Mahmoud Abbas was elected for a 48 months term. He's currently on month 88 and no sign of any stop at any point
 
2012-04-19 01:08:17 PM  
 
2012-04-19 01:08:29 PM  
I have sympathy for the Palestinians, but your approach has not worked for over sixty years. How about trying a new approach?
 
2012-04-19 01:08:40 PM  

Tatsuma: Your point is that their population is about 8 times higher than it was at the creation of the state, with one of the fastest population growth rate on earth?

Yeah, how is that ethnic cleansing exactly?


Gee, 800% population growth in 60-ish years? Wow that's fast. It's almost as if they were forcibly relocated from some other place.

Do you actually know what "ethnic cleansing" means? Not that any willful ignorance on your part would be surprising.
 
2012-04-19 01:09:03 PM  

Jake Havechek: You don't want hot headed rabble rousers in your government. The only instance where this has worked was after the American Revolution. Jefferson was not called "Mad Tom"(but not to his face) for no reason.

Revolutionaries have little to do once the revolution is over, and can even turn on the government they helped bring into being.


Robespierre would agree with you, if his head were still attached.
 
2012-04-19 01:09:55 PM  

xxysyndrome: Gee, 800% population growth in 60-ish years? Wow that's fast. It's almost as if they were forcibly relocated from some other place.


Refugees are not included in these figures.
 
2012-04-19 01:10:12 PM  
If they think god wants them to take back the holy land then just wait while, live in peace with the jews for the next 1000 years or so and them bam sneak attack! God ain't going anywhere, shiat doesn't have to be done today.
 
2012-04-19 01:10:57 PM  
they are fairly different skillsets
 
2012-04-19 01:11:01 PM  
Given that their rockets rarely injures anyone, their ability to run the government must be really really bad.
 
2012-04-19 01:11:24 PM  

KiwDaWabbit: I have sympathy for the Palestinians, but your approach has not worked for over sixty years. How about trying a new approach?


That's what they're doing.
 
2012-04-19 01:12:33 PM  

slc11082: its hard to run a government when Israel places you in a ghetto.
more and more Israel is looking like nazi germany with there holocaust against the Muslims.


ignorance of history, ignorance of current events, ignorance of proper spelling.
 
2012-04-19 01:13:07 PM  
Wendy's Chili

I'm shocked... SHOCKED that the Washington Post, which, like most major media outlets in the US, is renowned for its balanced, unbiased coverage of Israel, would reinforce your favorite narrative that all Palestinians are sub-human savages that deserve every tank shell fired through their living rooms. Shocked.


Yeah all the photo shopping required to make them look bad must take... days to fabricate.

i95.photobucket.comi95.photobucket.com

i95.photobucket.comi95.photobucket.com


i95.photobucket.comi95.photobucket.com

i95.photobucket.comi95.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-19 01:14:55 PM  
That jerkoff kid is wearing a Bears jersey :(
 
2012-04-19 01:15:43 PM  
history.msfc.nasa.gov

Approves.
 
2012-04-19 01:16:19 PM  

slc11082: I hope Iran gets the bomb and deals with the Israel problem.



So first you compare Israel to Nazi Germany, and then you hope for another 6 million dead Jews?

Well well well, look what came in goosestepping, slc11088
 
2012-04-19 01:16:50 PM  

Tatsuma: xxysyndrome: Gee, 800% population growth in 60-ish years? Wow that's fast. It's almost as if they were forcibly relocated from some other place.

Refugees are not included in these figures.


citation needed - and even if correct it doesn't make Israel's long-standing policy of appropriating Arab and Palestinian land and building Jewish settlements on it conveniently disappear. which, by the way, is the precise and literal definition of "ethnic cleansing". you creepy racist fundie.
 
2012-04-19 01:20:05 PM  

mayIFark: Given that their rockets rarely injures anyone, their ability to run the government must be really really bad.


Subby just compared it to being able to launch rockets, which they seem to do okay. (But judging by TFA, they ARE really bad at governing.)

/ Not subby
 
2012-04-19 01:20:18 PM  

KiwDaWabbit: That jerkoff kid is wearing a Bears jersey :(


Palestinians love Charles Tillman.
 
2012-04-19 01:22:19 PM  
What a group of terrorists may look like.
 
2012-04-19 01:22:42 PM  

xxysyndrome: citation needed - and even if correct it doesn't make Israel's long-standing policy of appropriating Arab and Palestinian land and building Jewish settlements on it conveniently disappear. which, by the way, is the precise and literal definition of "ethnic cleansing". you creepy racist fundie.


The settlements froze with Oslo and stop expending outside of their own municipal boundaries. Those are not changing, which means that all the building in Judea and Samaria were in areas that were already settlements.

The only few places where its not the case, the government is swift in coming and demolishing everything.

And yes, those are the right numbers. The population has grown times eight since 1948, with their quality of life upgrading tremendously under Israeli so-called occupation, putting them as a better place to live than most of the middle-east.

In fact, the last time the wall was broken between Egypt and Azza, Egyptians streamed in Gaza to see the devastation, then organized a protest movement inside Egypt complaining about how their lives were worse than what was happening in Gaza.

While Gazans were coming back from Egypt with flatscreen tvs, bikes, computers, phones and satellite antennas.

Life in Gaza isn't the greatest on earth, but its nowhere near close 'ghetto' conditions.
 
2012-04-19 01:24:15 PM  
What a group of terrorists may look like.


www.eyewitnesstohistory.com
 
2012-04-19 01:26:47 PM  
I'd think the same could be said of our leadership.
 
2012-04-19 01:28:25 PM  

xxysyndrome: Tatsuma: xxysyndrome: Gee, 800% population growth in 60-ish years? Wow that's fast. It's almost as if they were forcibly relocated from some other place.

Refugees are not included in these figures.

citation needed - and even if correct it doesn't make Israel's long-standing policy of appropriating Arab and Palestinian land and building Jewish settlements on it conveniently disappear. which, by the way, is the precise and literal definition of "ethnic cleansing". you creepy racist fundie.


What about the 9000 Jews who were forcibly removed from their homes and expelled from Gaza in 2005? Isn't that the textbook definition of "ethnic cleansing"? All Jews have been removed from Gaza. They are not allowed to live there. And I get the impression that this is the generally accepted idea: no Jews will be permitted to live in a future Palestinian State. If this is not the case, then why are people upset about "settlements"? If Jews are allowed to live in a future Palestine, then great- they're already there.

So if I understand you correctly, you accuse the Israelis of engaging in "ethnic cleansing", while you're advocating for a Palestine that will be ethnically cleansed of all Jews. Do I have that right?
 
2012-04-19 01:28:56 PM  
I can't say that I fully understand the Israeli/Palastinian situation, but does it boil down to about this:

- The land was originally inhabited by the Jewish people in ancient time
- Ancient Arabs/Egyptians kicked the Jewish people off of the land
- In the 40s a small portion of what was then a Muslim country was set aside for the Jewish People as Israel
- The Israeli people wanted to expand to control the land they feel as their birthright, and have done so as they feel the Arabs/Muslims are occupiers who have no claim to the Holy Land
- The Muslim people who have lived in what is now Israel/Palastine for most of modern history don't like that.

Am I missing something here? I can understand where the Israelis are coming from, but at the same time I can see why the Palastinians are upset, for them I guess it would be like if the Native Americans decided they weren't happy with the reservations and decided to start annexing large chunks of the US - sure the land was theirs originally, but it's been so long that we now feel we are the rightful owners.
 
2012-04-19 01:29:09 PM  
Just growing pains. I'm sure Hamas will do a fine job as a government. A fine job I tell you.
 
2012-04-19 01:29:21 PM  

david_gaithersburg: What a group of terrorists may look like.


[www.eyewitnesstohistory.com image 310x182]


This is what retards believe Hamas actually looks like.
 
2012-04-19 01:30:51 PM  

joshik72: What about the 9000 Jews who were forcibly removed from their homes and expelled from Gaza in 2005? Isn't that the textbook definition of "ethnic cleansing"?


Or the 900,000 Jews who were actually ethnically cleansed by Arab countries, and robbed of their possessions.

Then again, we care about our fellow Jews, so we did not keep them rotting in refugee camps as a spawn, nor did we declare that 'even if we have a state, our refugees will stay refugees until Arab countries are destroyed' either. Same cannot be said of the PA leadership.

joshik72: So if I understand you correctly, you accuse the Israelis of engaging in "ethnic cleansing", while you're advocating for a Palestine that will be ethnically cleansed of all Jews. Do I have that right?


Why yes indeed, they have also mentioned that never would there be a Jew, or an Israeli, in 'Palestine', even to visit, and that the state would be an Arab Muslim state.
 
2012-04-19 01:31:12 PM  

Uncle Tractor: Tatsuma: Yeah, ethnic cleansing

[israelipalestinian.procon.org image 640x271]

According to the CBS, the growth rate for the settler population (excluding East Jerusalem) in 2010 was more than two and a half times higher than that of the general population in Israel: 4.9 percent and 1.9 percent, respectively. Furthermore, 26.4 percent of this increase in settler population were Israelis who moved from inside Israel or new immigrants to Israel who settled there.


Ah... The shrinking green map! Know what this data tells me?

It tells me this: if the Arabs had accepted the 1947 Partition Plan, they would have had a larger Palestinian State then they're ever gonna get now.
 
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