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(Business Insider)   Starting in 2015 your car will record every action you take. The government and police will never ever abuse this data or use it for personal reasons. Pinky swear   (businessinsider.com) divider line 178
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13096 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2012 at 11:12 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-19 12:25:31 PM  

bdub77: Suppose the government makes that illegal. And now let's put the device in the trunk of the car. Can the police now enter your trunk (to determine if you disabled the device, citizen) without a warrant?


Why would they have a requirement of a black box and not have the black box send out a signal of some kind.

They won't even need to physically check, they just run your plates (eventually the dash cameras will just do this automatically), which are linked to the VIN, which is linked to the address on the black box, which should be broadcasting a signal. No signal? You are in trouble mister.
 
2012-04-19 12:25:37 PM  

Pilikia: R.A.Danny: Pilikia: This is how your rights get eroded.

Not likely. If they can't be bothered to pull me over to check for street mods or whether my windows are tinted too darkly, they won't be pulling me over for this. And if they do, I just feign surprise. "It's not working? I'll get that fixed right away, officer!"

Won't be the same enforcement agencies.

Prove it.


I need to prove that instead of the local Barney Fife, who is already not checking your window film, it will be larger state and federal government agencies checking your spiffy new black box against crime scenes, body dumps, and potential drug raids just to ensnare you for being a possible suspect? Really? You trust your government that much?

Of courser Fife will be checking as well, just not anything that doesn't affect him.
 
2012-04-19 12:27:26 PM  

myrrh: You suckers who insist on a new car every couple of years are about to start reaping yet another reward from your consumerist lifestyle.

I'll stick with my early-80's diesel Mercedes, thankyouverymuch. Gonna be pretty tough for them to track my movements in one of those.


They can just follow the smoke and dripping oil.
 
2012-04-19 12:28:22 PM  

kgf: Democrats - want to take your money and give it to the poor
Republicans - want to take your money and give it to the rich


Our tax burden is the lowest in 60 years. I can attack this BS on the "false equivalence" fallacy alone, except it's not true for either party.

Honestly, our current tax rate is solidly a "first-world problem" in the worst sense. We're paying lower taxes than either our parents or grandparents and people have the gall to complain it's too much.
 
2012-04-19 12:32:00 PM  

PsiChi: , they emit cancer-causing radiation every day, all day.


Ah, I see. You're an idiot so I can just ignore everything you write.
 
2012-04-19 12:32:04 PM  
Millennium 2012-04-19 11:28:25 AM
Aarontology: You know, I kinda like the idea of tax cheats and pedophiles not being able to flee the country.

I wouldn't mind it either, if it were subject to due process of law: warrants, courts, reasonable doubt, and all that. Problem is, as others have pointed out, this law doesn't do that.



Because we really have had an enormous problem with tax cheats and pedophiles fleeing the country.
you know why we don't have this problem? A judge can require a passport be handed over as a condition of bail, or just not grant bail at all if he feels an alleged criminal is a flight risk.
this isn't even a good idea in theory.
this is supposed to look like it is a solution to a problem, but that problem doesn't actually exist. it's a way to ramp up the authoritarianism.
the problem is that the democrats have found yet another fundamental right, the freedom of movement, that they want to be able to circumscribe by executive fiat. Obama already took out due process, now Boxer wants your freedom of movement.

/come on, hit me with the your best both sides are bad.
 
2012-04-19 12:32:34 PM  
I wondered bout this :
"Section 31504 requires the development of special alarm systems designed to remind drivers that there are other passengers in the vehicle. Duh."

And found this from the Senate Bill:

SEC. 31504. UNATTENDED PASSENGER REMINDERS.
(a) Safety Research Initiative- Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall complete research into the development of performance requirements to warn drivers that a child or other unattended passenger remains in a rear seating position after the vehicle motor is disengaged.
(b) Specifications- In carrying out subsection (a), the Secretary shall consider performance requirements that--
(1) sense weight, the presence of a buckled seat belt, or other indications of the presence of a child or other passenger; and
(2) provide an alert to prevent hyperthermia and hypothermia that can result in death or severe injuries.


Wow, an alert to remind imbeciles to take the baby inside with them. What will they think of next?
 
2012-04-19 12:35:40 PM  

R.A.Danny: Pilikia: R.A.Danny: Pilikia: This is how your rights get eroded.

Not likely. If they can't be bothered to pull me over to check for street mods or whether my windows are tinted too darkly, they won't be pulling me over for this. And if they do, I just feign surprise. "It's not working? I'll get that fixed right away, officer!"

Won't be the same enforcement agencies.

Prove it.

I need to prove that instead of the local Barney Fife, who is already not checking your window film, it will be larger state and federal government agencies checking your spiffy new black box against crime scenes, body dumps, and potential drug raids just to ensnare you for being a possible suspect? Really? You trust your government that much?

Of courser Fife will be checking as well, just not anything that doesn't affect him.


So you can't prove it. Just about every other Federal law, rule and regulation relating to my car (and plates and driver's license) are enforced by local and state police, not the Feds. What you're claiming is that the Fed is going to go hyperlocal - within the next 6 years - JUST TO KEEP TRACK OF THE BLACK BOXES IN EVERYONE'S CARS.

I trust my government to be incompetent, and I trust myself not to be a fool. You I don't trust. Nothing personal, you just post stupid stuff.
 
2012-04-19 12:38:50 PM  

Pilikia: I trust my government to be incompetent


I'm not sure I'd want to rely on that.
 
2012-04-19 12:39:13 PM  
This won't affect me until some time around 2029, which will be about the time I can afford a car from 2015.
 
2012-04-19 12:39:16 PM  

iaazathot: It's funny to see the whackadoodles complain about this. While I agree it is a bad idea, I wonder if the whackadoodles understand it is the insurance agencies that threw a ton of money at getting this to happen? I would think they would be extacted about the chance for their corporate masters to have more control over their lives in pursuit of obscene profits.


And the companies who make the devices.
 
2012-04-19 12:39:18 PM  
We will still need to get traffic cameras covering every inch of every street because of those trouble makers that won't buy a new car.
 
2012-04-19 12:40:20 PM  

Nightsweat: Trackball: So, when are the liberals going to start demanding their guns back?

Have all the guns you want. If the gub-mint's coming for you, it won't matter. They'll take away your money, your power, your telecom, accuse you of child molestation and kiddy porn to make your friends and neighbors revile you then wait you out and isolate you before hitting you with more law enforcement than you can handle with bigger and better weapons than you'll ever even see.

If you're in Texas, they'll brun you to the ground, if you're in Philly they'll just blow up the whole block. Keep your little peashooters, they won't help.


You seem to think that when things get bad(tm) that it is one nutter against the government.

When things get to the level of bad that these folks are referring to, the goverment would be on the verge of splintering into the myriad of factions you see in places like syria. Oh its not going to be nice, but it's certainly not some isolated group vs the US.

The USA has too many resources not controlled by consolidated groups.

If you want to see what it might look like if the US broke up, the USSR is a good study. It happened so fast it caught everyone off guard.

I certainly don't ever wish for a future like that, but the premise you put forward was silly.
 
2012-04-19 12:41:20 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: myrrh: You suckers who insist on a new car every couple of years are about to start reaping yet another reward from your consumerist lifestyle.

I'll stick with my early-80's diesel Mercedes, thankyouverymuch. Gonna be pretty tough for them to track my movements in one of those.

They can just follow the smoke and dripping oil.


Hey now, I have one of those. It doesn't drip oil. They'll just follow the tractor like sound it makes.
 
2012-04-19 12:41:45 PM  

AugieDoggyDaddy: I wondered bout this :
"Section 31504 requires the development of special alarm systems designed to remind drivers that there are other passengers in the vehicle. Duh."

And found this from the Senate Bill:

SEC. 31504. UNATTENDED PASSENGER REMINDERS.
(a) Safety Research Initiative- Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall complete research into the development of performance requirements to warn drivers that a child or other unattended passenger remains in a rear seating position after the vehicle motor is disengaged.
(b) Specifications- In carrying out subsection (a), the Secretary shall consider performance requirements that--
(1) sense weight, the presence of a buckled seat belt, or other indications of the presence of a child or other passenger; and
(2) provide an alert to prevent hyperthermia and hypothermia that can result in death or severe injuries.


Wow, an alert to remind imbeciles to take the baby inside with them. What will they think of next?


But won't somebody think of the children??? oh wait, they did.

/stupid rules.
 
2012-04-19 12:42:58 PM  

generallyso: Pilikia: I trust my government to be incompetent

I'm not sure I'd want to rely on that.


You guys all have the same farking conspiratorial tone, lol. You hint at dark possibilities and answer questions with more questions, but none of you actually say anything. It's pretty funny. I am mildly entertained. :-)
 
2012-04-19 12:46:18 PM  

Pick: Can they retrofit one to my 1998 Harley Davidson? How about my 1972 John Deere tractor?


My 1951 Farmall Super C wants your new JD off its lawn.
 
2012-04-19 12:50:53 PM  
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety"- B. Franklin
 
2012-04-19 12:51:11 PM  

dragonchild: kgf: Democrats - want to take your money and give it to the poor
Republicans - want to take your money and give it to the rich

Our tax burden is the lowest in 60 years. I can attack this BS on the "false equivalence" fallacy alone, except it's not true for either party.

Honestly, our current tax rate is solidly a "first-world problem" in the worst sense. We're paying lower taxes than either our parents or grandparents and people have the gall to complain it's too much.


It is too much when you look at it from the perspective of how mid-career college grads are paying the highest rates.

With the cost of college reaching such high levels, we are grinding the middle class to dust.

Few 30 somethings in the future will have enough financial freedom to explore new business opportunities. They are going to be working to pay off loans, and the rest to pay tax.

160k AGI for a couple is where the student loan deduction reaches zero I think. Thats right where you enter the higher tax brackets and also right about the income level where people woult normally have enough extra to consider rolling that into their own personal businesses.

So taxes are low on average, but high in some very bad ways.
 
2012-04-19 12:51:21 PM  

Pilikia: I trust my government to be incompetent


Even Bush toppled Iraq in no time flat.
 
2012-04-19 12:52:14 PM  
Where are all the libs that scream bloody murder every time the Patriot act is brought up?

If I'm not mistaken, the first thing a government does when it's about to assume absolute control over your life is to prevent you from leaving. The second thing it does is track everything you do, and everywhere you go.

Why the hell is the black box necessary, if not to begin surveillance of the citizenry? Is there some kind of national crisis we're facing in determining fault in auto accidents?
 
2012-04-19 12:57:04 PM  
kgf: "Neither party is 100% correct or good:"

True, but your summary is 100% bullshiat. It may have felt truthy back in the 60s, but the democratic platform today is indistinguishable from the republican platform of the 70s.
The policies of the left aren't anywhere *near* the goddamm left of the political spectrum. Any objective analysis will show that. And they haven't been for years. The Republicans have been forced progressively further right for decades now.

I mean, the Republican primary turned into a damn straw man race ffs; where the leading candidates were *literally* competing to see who would promise to outright shutter more of the government and repeal more of the *Republican implemented* EPA/FDA rules without so much as a passing concern toward any consequence beyond "corporations will be able to make more profit".

And they *have* to do that, because they're trying to sell a Nixon-era goal (market-based approach to healthcare reform) and moderate social policy (anti-discrimination without anything approaching quotas or actual *assistance*) as far-left socialism. And because it ain't, they have to steer wide right to create the impression of a policy gap.

Now, there may actually be Democrats out there who still believe in using tax money to pro-actively help people advance (rather than doing as little as possible reactively, to make sure people aren't literally starving in the streets). But they sure as hell aren't running for office or driving policy.
 
2012-04-19 01:00:48 PM  
woot more government regulations increasing the price of cars. How much do you think each one of these costs
 
2012-04-19 01:02:54 PM  
I'll be Space Mining by then!
 
2012-04-19 01:05:26 PM  
Soon...
img11.imageshack.us
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-04-19 01:06:07 PM  
it will be larger state and federal government agencies checking your spiffy new black box against crime scenes, body dumps, and potential drug raids

According to a story I read about British vehicle tracking systems, they also consider you a suspect if you were not spotted at the scene but were too close to a car that was. Sometimes criminals take two cars to a crime. They use one for the crime and flee in the other which they kept out of sight. If you might have been driving to the same place as the bad guys around the same time, you might be a co-conspirator.
 
2012-04-19 01:07:08 PM  

R.A.Danny: Pilikia: I trust my government to be incompetent

Even Bush toppled Iraq in no time flat.


And if he had turned the military on its own citizens, he probably could have pulled off the kind of gargantuan surveillance and enforcement effort you are claiming will be in place and functioning smoothly, unopposed, by 2018. But if they need to start checking passports to catch tax cheats, there's obviously no money for Federal enforcement of automobile black box regulations - and thereby spy on the populace - at the state and local level. And there never will be.

If you're really worried about a surveillance state, stop posting on fark, toss your smartphone, buy a bike and start using public transportation. The real threat to your civil liberties lies in the private sector and the choices you make every day, not in a run-of-the-mill bill filled with pork and derp.

/fluffs R.A. Danny's pillow and tucks him in
//reassures him that there are no monsters under his bed
 
2012-04-19 01:09:07 PM  
The black boxes are already in cars. They record only a few seconds of data though. Basically they are there so when you try to sue Ford after you wreck your car and claim some kind of defect they pull the black box data that shows 2 seconds before you crashed through a house you were going a 110 MPH and the brakes didn't just "stop working".
 
2012-04-19 01:11:17 PM  
Starting in 2015 your car will record every action you take.

So, if the headline is to be believed, on January 1, 2015, my 2004 WRX is going to start watching everything I do and recording every action I take.

I better get my fill of the really wierd porn before then, I guess.
 
2012-04-19 01:19:14 PM  

Slaxl: MaudlinMutantMollusk: so if anyone ever tells you they're worried about GPS in their phones being used to track them... tell them they are very silly indeed and should rethink their position.


Why? The GPS will just track them to their new position.
 
2012-04-19 01:20:48 PM  

dittybopper: nekom: So remove it. Problem solved.

And it 2018, after Congress perceives this to be a problem, it will become illegal to tamper with it, or it will be required to be integrated so tightly that you can't remove it without disabling the vehicle.

For your safety, of course.


bull farking shiat i will remove it or a spike will conveniently be thrown from the tire into it tadaaa tracking by by.

and if a object cant be thrown by a tire then some bord teenagers broke it.
 
2012-04-19 01:23:53 PM  
images.smh.com.au

Attamand? No it's, Atmand. No it's Atmanad. No it's Atmanand. Atmadand?

... Gregory.
 
2012-04-19 01:24:07 PM  

kgf: Democrats - want to take your money and give it to the poor
Republicans - want to take your money and give it to the rich

Democrats - want to trample your rights to protect you from the rich
Republicans - want to trample your rights to protect the rich from you

/that's all I got on short notice




This

(is horribly accurate)
 
2012-04-19 01:24:12 PM  

Slaxl: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If that bothers you, you might want to think about that GPS locator you carry with you every day

When my phone was stolen it was zero use catching the criminals, same for every single story of a stolen phone I've ever heard, so if anyone ever tells you they're worried about GPS in their phones being used to track them... tell them they are very silly indeed and should rethink their position.


I see your confusion. It nothing to do with the usefulness (or lack thereof) of the GPS - it's because the cops don't give a fark about expending any energy to find your phone. When the cops have an actual reason to track GPS devices they have no problem at all with finding out where it is
 
2012-04-19 01:27:36 PM  

PsiChi: What a "smart" meter might look like (doesn't necessarily say "Smart Meter" on it, just has a digital readout): emfsafetynetwork.org

If you'd like to learn how to get rid of it, or avoid one in the first place, go to Link. They can also really jack up your bill, and, of course, they emit cancer-causing radiation every day, all day.


But this will keep you safe:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-19 01:30:19 PM  

ZAZ: it will be larger state and federal government agencies checking your spiffy new black box against crime scenes, body dumps, and potential drug raids

According to a story I read about British vehicle tracking systems, they also consider you a suspect if you were not spotted at the scene but were too close to a car that was. Sometimes criminals take two cars to a crime. They use one for the crime and flee in the other which they kept out of sight. If you might have been driving to the same place as the bad guys around the same time, you might be a co-conspirator.


Do they have a Marauder's Map or something?
 
2012-04-19 01:33:37 PM  

Mose: Starting in 2015 your car will record every action you take.

So, if the headline is to be believed, on January 1, 2015, my 2004 WRX is going to start watching everything I do and recording every action I take.

I better get my fill of the really wierd porn before then, I guess.


Hey if you're not using your rear sway bar, I'll take it off your hands. ;)

/2004 Foz XTI
 
2012-04-19 01:35:16 PM  
A better question is why are these laws necessary and who really wants them passed?
 
2012-04-19 01:40:47 PM  

there their theyre: A better question is why are these laws necessary and who really wants them passed?


Well, I mean, there's all this data just lying around, why waste it?
 
2012-04-19 01:49:50 PM  

Omnivorous: Just remember a tenet of Anton Scalia: the Founding Fathers didn't put a privacy right in the Constitution.


Scalia is utterly demented.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches..."

Ferchrissakes, that is the very definition of privacy. If not privacy, WTF is the Fourth Amendment about? For that matter, privacy is also the right preserved by the Third Amendment - which was ultimately a bar on state surveillance - which is regarded as a nullity by the courts.

Then again, that wingnut Scalia doesn't think the Fourteenth Amendment applies to women, what with its unambiguously masculine terms "person" and "citizen," which of course women can never be.

Lifetime tenure for federal judges was a terrible, awful idea. It did nothing to depoliticize the bench. SCOTUS is probably the most politicized court in America.

It should work like this: each president should seat one SCOTUS justice every other year with the most senior justices rotated off the bench. That way, no POTUS can appoint a majority, judges cannot coordinate their retirement to open a seat for an ideologically similar successor, and the damage a dimwit or an unhinged lunatic like Scalia can do is limited to 18 years.

...rather than 26 years and counting.
 
2012-04-19 01:50:16 PM  
Driving and personal ownership of cars must be made illegal.
 
2012-04-19 01:53:07 PM  

myrrh: You suckers who insist on a new car every couple of years are about to start reaping yet another reward from your consumerist lifestyle.

I'll stick with my early-80's diesel Mercedes, thankyouverymuch. Gonna be pretty tough for them to track my movements in one of those.


They'll just follow your smoke plume and the fumes.
 
2012-04-19 02:11:16 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: PsiChi: What a "smart" meter might look like (doesn't necessarily say "Smart Meter" on it, just has a digital readout): emfsafetynetwork.org

If you'd like to learn how to get rid of it, or avoid one in the first place, go to Link. They can also really jack up your bill, and, of course, they emit cancer-causing radiation every day, all day.

But this will keep you safe:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 550x420]


No it won't, the squatcho (button) is still exposed. That's, like, the antenna, man! ;-)
 
2012-04-19 02:26:35 PM  

dragonchild: kgf: Democrats - want to take your money and give it to the poor
Republicans - want to take your money and give it to the rich

Our tax burden is the lowest in 60 years. I can attack this BS on the "false equivalence" fallacy alone, except it's not true for either party.

Honestly, our current tax rate is solidly a "first-world problem" in the worst sense. We're paying lower taxes than either our parents or grandparents and people have the gall to complain it's too much.


While our Federal tax rate may be lower our overall tax rate is much higher.
State taxes, local taxes, gas taxes, property taxes and others are all higher than ever before.
It is disingenuous to parrot the mantra that the single federal tax rate is lower while ignoring the plethora of other taxes that have increased dramatically over the years.
 
2012-04-19 02:28:59 PM  
I predict a sudden increase in demand for used "older vehicles" in the next few years.
 
2012-04-19 02:41:30 PM  

kim jong-un: So taxes are low on average, but high in some very bad ways.


That's an apt point, but it's different from the blanket statement, "taxes are high". Taxes may be high for a certain individual with a certain lifestyle living in a certain area. . . so?

It's more relevant to say taxes are unfair, because even at the federal level, capital gains are taxed at a special rate. That means people who own assets can pay less taxes than people who work.

zepher: While our Federal tax rate may be lower our overall tax rate is much higher. State taxes, local taxes, gas taxes, property taxes and others are all higher than ever before.


So, you've collected data on every possible lifestyle, state, municipality, etc. for years, took this massive set of data and crunched it against census data to account for the per-capita impact as it relates to population density (a 1% increase on a million people affects the national average more than a 10% increase on a few hundred) and came up with this conclusive fact? Or are you just parroting what some idiot in a suit said because he wrote a book and said so on TV?

I've yet to see a comprehensive study on our overall tax rate that didn't have highly questionable methodology. Which is no damn surprise, considering almost all of them are politically motivated.
 
2012-04-19 02:44:03 PM  

Slaxl: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If that bothers you, you might want to think about that GPS locator you carry with you every day

When my phone was stolen it was zero use catching the criminals, same for every single story of a stolen phone I've ever heard, so if anyone ever tells you they're worried about GPS in their phones being used to track them... tell them they are very silly indeed and should rethink their position.


Well, no, it's not as if you're the intended user of this sort of technology.

It's like people claiming that the Iraq war wasn't about oil, on the grounds that it didn't drive gas prices down. If you were a Halliburton stockholder, it had a LOT to do with "oil."
 
2012-04-19 02:46:02 PM  
I would actually feel bad for anybody tracking my driving habits. They would be bored to farggin' tears
 
2012-04-19 02:51:57 PM  
Yet how many of you farkers support all the other shiat congress does under the commerce clause?

Remember this, whether your a dumbass idealist liberal, or a dumbass fundi conservative, the liberal interpretation of the commerce clause has given the congress the ability to do whatever the fark it wants. USSC idolists, even conservative ones, will spout some BS about the interpretation being necessary for congress to effectuate national problems. Its BS because it is interpreting away the restrictions that were suppose to come with the Fed being a sovereign of enumerated powers, and because if the constitution needs changing it should be done properly by amendment, not by interpretation for what certain people consider "necessary in an evolving society". If an amendment isnt supported then the people don't want that shiat.

They'll also say some BS about the political system, ie voting, being the remedy for congress abusing any commerce clause powers, this is also BS, because all congressmen Rs and Ds want more power and will seek to stretch the clause when it serves their benefit. Not to mention the fact congress will dress up some stupid bill by naming it "The Puppies are Cute Act " and it will be 5k pages with a couple of sentences that contain the venomous provision. Not to mention one of the main purposes of the constitution was to protect the minority from the majority, and the political process is not capable of doing that.

Beware the next time you support drastic power invoking the commerce clause because you like the result. That same power will inevitably be used to enforce something you vehemently oppose.
 
2012-04-19 02:56:08 PM  

dittybopper: nekom: So remove it. Problem solved.

And it 2018, after Congress perceives this to be a problem, it will become illegal to tamper with it, or it will be required to be integrated so tightly that you can't remove it without disabling the vehicle.

For your safety, of course.


You mean like Internet Explorer?
 
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