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(The Raw Story)   Reporter volunteers for trans-hoo-hah ultrasound   (rawstory.com ) divider line
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12442 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2012 at 10:33 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-19 11:54:15 AM  

bhcompy: It's not coercion. In fact, its political point is to have the opposite effect.

And please tell me how anyone is being forced to do anything. I had to have a physical for my job. A doctor touched my scrotum. It wasn't rape because I wanted employment, which is implied consent for the ball-touching as it is a prerequisite for employment.


It wasn't rape because there was a medical purpose. Now imagine there was no medical reason, the doctor didn't want to do it, but your employer said it had to be done or you don't get the job. Sound a little more inappropriate now?

No one is arguing against trans-vaginal ultrasounds as a whole. Only the completely unnecessary use of them to punish the sluts for getting an abortion.
 
2012-04-19 11:54:24 AM  

OhLuverly: pxlboy:

It still doesn't make it right.

It still isn't rape.


Unless she consented to the wand penetration then it is rape. And no, a blanket medical consent for necessary medical procedure should not equal consent for a medically probative unnecessary procedure.
 
2012-04-19 11:55:03 AM  

midigod: Samaura: Two party systems limit my successful options.

The moral ground is the higher ground. I simply don't accept that we all must align with one of two teams, as though no one else could ever be on the playing field. The two parties do not, never have, and never will hold a monopoly on the mind of the thinking person. They are, by definition, anti-American, because they are interested only in power, not in what's best for the nation. They revel in their power at the expense of the nation.

If everyone stood up for their convictions, the two-party system would go the way of the dodo.

Don't be afraid to reject both parties!



If more people thought like you, more people would think like you.

/Yes, I went there.
 
2012-04-19 11:57:26 AM  

Fallout Zone: misanthropologist:

My wife actually had a transvaginal ultrasound this morning. It was about the 8th time in the last month (we are going through in-vitro treatments). From what I can tell, the reporter describes it well. It is intrusive and can be painful, and should not be imposed on an unwilling woman.


Good luck - my wife and I went through it about a year ago (3 month old twin girls). IVF is not a fun process.
 
2012-04-19 12:00:24 PM  

bhcompy: Baryogenesis: bhcompy: Except this isn't against their will. It's part of the stipulation of having the medical procedure done. You're consenting to the procedure in order to have the abortion.

It's coercion. They're forcing women to consent to an invasive and unnecessary medical procedure that they wouldn't normally consent to.

It's not coercion. In fact, its political point is to have the opposite effect.

And please tell me how anyone is being forced to do anything. I had to have a physical for my job. A doctor touched my scrotum. It wasn't rape because I wanted employment, which is implied consent for the ball-touching as it is a prerequisite for employment.


Does the touched scrotum fall under a standard and necessary part of the physical? Was it implemented to deter you from seeking employmnt? Did the physciain fist your anus?
 
2012-04-19 12:02:50 PM  

Hobodeluxe: bhcompy: Kar98: GAT_00: "It wasn't quite rape. It was painful, uncomfortable and it was a gigantic hard object shoved up inside me, but it wasn't quite rape."

Yes, we get it. We're aware that it isn't actually rape. It's simply the only comparable phrase and gets the point across, particularly the pain and degradation the procedure was intended to cause and was the reason for passing the bills requiring it.

Have a giant, hard object shoved up one's orifices against one's will is the very definition of rape though.

Except this isn't against their will. It's part of the stipulation of having the medical procedure done. You're consenting to the procedure in order to have the abortion. Since no one is forcing you to have the abortion, no one is forcing you to have a transvaginal ultrasound. The day someone is forced to have an abortion is the day that the accompanying transvaginal ultrasound is rape.

oh bullshiat it's a completely unnecessary,expensive and as with all medical procedures comes with it's own share of risks. this is having some wingnut politician/preacher/busybody come between a woman and their doctor. You're all for paying for this procedure out of your pocket but cry foul when someone asks for money for education for a child, for food,or even contraceptives. Fark all you self righteous assholes with a 10" wand.


Really? When did I say that?
 
2012-04-19 12:06:15 PM  

Samaura: Bontesla: Samaura: Mr.Hawk: Samaura: As a republican, and a true conservative, I want to be on the record early as saying

Any politician that forces any woman to undergo this should be pulled out into the street and shot without ceremony.

As a father of three, There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to do this to a woman. The on the belly sonogram is Just FINE at finding the baby inside.

The very idea of it violates my conservative principles of the government forcing its people to do anything, and i would see it obliterated along with all the people who support it.


That is a good and true conservative view point. My question is if this is what the republican party is backing, why are you still a republican?


Because the democrats are worse to me. I'm fiscal conservative first. Socially moderate/left leaning last.

The republican platform needs people like me to give it some common sense, and without the BULK of their membership thinking as I do, it would be far worse. The headline makers of on liberal programs are not the people i vote for, they are representatives of pyschotic districts that chose a party to win a ticket.

The democrats are worse to you? Citation needed.

Obama 2008-2012, you can do your own research. Dont forget the big bailouts bush helped pass after obama won the election and before he took office.

And before someone says uses that tired old arguement "But BUSH did X y z"
Bush was almost as bad at crippling us as a land of opportunity, but not THIS bad.


I'm sorry. . . When I said citation needed - I really meant please provide sources to support your argument.
 
2012-04-19 12:09:05 PM  
I think I see the bigger chess game here.

Democrats opening - Obamacare
Republicans defense - Stop it in the senate/house of rep
Dems - Obamacare passed.
Reps - Create as much hell and offend as many people as possible by stretching Obamacare way beyond it's intents and purposes, treating women as pawns and sacrificing them.

Given that tactic, they're hoping the following happens:

Dems - Abandon Obamacare
Reps - Gloat about how much Obamacare was a failure, cite Dems as bad excuses for leadership and get elected.

Checkmate, Reps win.

In my opinion, political fights in office that oppress the people really piss me off and need to stop.
Someone needs to push the governmental reset button and let's start rebuilding our government from scratch, starting with the original Constitution.
 
2012-04-19 12:10:04 PM  
Forget the reporter, I feel sorry for the poor ultrasound tech. How much flour did she have to use to find a spot to aim for.

ninecooks.typepad.com

You know she was asking for it.
 
2012-04-19 12:10:35 PM  

OhLuverly: "Your abortion provider will give you medication for pain and possibly sedation. You will lie on your back with your feet in stirrups and a speculum is inserted to open the vagina. A local anesthetic is administered to your cervix to numb it. Then a tenaculum (surgical instrument with long handles and a clamp at the end) is used to hold the cervix in place for the cervix to be dilated by absorbant rods that vary in size. The rods may also be put in a few days prior to the procedure. When the cervix is wide enough, a cannula, which is a long plastic tube connected to a suction device, is inserted into the uterus to suction out the fetus and placenta. The procedure usually lasts 10-15 minutes, but recovery can require staying at the clinic for a few hours. Your doctor will also give you antibiotics to help prevent infection."

They're worried about the ultrasound? I've had one of these ultrasounds before, they are uncomfortable certainly but it isn't rape and certainly no where near as traumatic as the actual abortion itself.


Except that most abortion procedures consist of swallowing a pill.
 
2012-04-19 12:13:23 PM  
Glad to see someone putting their money where their mound is.
 
2012-04-19 12:13:24 PM  

quantum_csc: OhLuverly: "Your abortion provider will give you medication for pain and possibly sedation. You will lie on your back with your feet in stirrups and a speculum is inserted to open the vagina. A local anesthetic is administered to your cervix to numb it. Then a tenaculum (surgical instrument with long handles and a clamp at the end) is used to hold the cervix in place for the cervix to be dilated by absorbant rods that vary in size. The rods may also be put in a few days prior to the procedure. When the cervix is wide enough, a cannula, which is a long plastic tube connected to a suction device, is inserted into the uterus to suction out the fetus and placenta. The procedure usually lasts 10-15 minutes, but recovery can require staying at the clinic for a few hours. Your doctor will also give you antibiotics to help prevent infection."

They're worried about the ultrasound? I've had one of these ultrasounds before, they are uncomfortable certainly but it isn't rape and certainly no where near as traumatic as the actual abortion itself.

Except that most abortion procedures consist of swallowing a pill.


And except that the same group of people demanding probe rape are also the same people that fight birth control and sex ed.
 
2012-04-19 12:14:09 PM  
I wonder how rigid with excitement the male legislators who voted for this get when they think about all the dirty, dirty whores being penetrated by a "wand."

Probably really rigid. But it's for the precious babies, and not because they all go into the legislators' restrooms and stroke their throbbing members while thinking about all the dirty whores undergoing hot, dirty transvaginal ultrasounds.

I don't envy the janitorial staff. That's gonna be a lot of jizz to mop up. Those stalls will look like a busy weekend at a peep show booth.
 
2012-04-19 12:14:49 PM  

Kar98: quantum_csc: OhLuverly: "Your abortion provider will give you medication for pain and possibly sedation. You will lie on your back with your feet in stirrups and a speculum is inserted to open the vagina. A local anesthetic is administered to your cervix to numb it. Then a tenaculum (surgical instrument with long handles and a clamp at the end) is used to hold the cervix in place for the cervix to be dilated by absorbant rods that vary in size. The rods may also be put in a few days prior to the procedure. When the cervix is wide enough, a cannula, which is a long plastic tube connected to a suction device, is inserted into the uterus to suction out the fetus and placenta. The procedure usually lasts 10-15 minutes, but recovery can require staying at the clinic for a few hours. Your doctor will also give you antibiotics to help prevent infection."

They're worried about the ultrasound? I've had one of these ultrasounds before, they are uncomfortable certainly but it isn't rape and certainly no where near as traumatic as the actual abortion itself.

Except that most abortion procedures consist of swallowing a pill.

And except that the same group of people demanding probe rape are also the same people that fight birth control and sex ed.


Quoth the great George Carlin:

"If you're pre-born, you're fine, if you're pre-school, you're farked."
 
2012-04-19 12:16:22 PM  

actualhuman: Samaura:
I view government as a parasite/host relationship with our economy.

Which is the fundamentally flawed basis for economic conservatism. The economy did not arise wholly formed from some sort of magic fountain. It would not exist nor could it continue to work without a government dictating that everyone plays by the same set of rules, providing an infrastructure for commerce, and a system for arbitration of disputes. The currency that makes our economy possible is a creation of this government, even when we used shiny rocks to limit the supply of currency that currency was a fictional concept which only held value because we all agreed that it did. Talking about "spending money we don't have" makes about as much sense as saying we can't write any new fiction because all the good stories have already been written.


This - it is much easier to run a business in America than Somalia. Also, historically in this country when government is more involved it improves the quality of life for a larger amount of the population.
 
2012-04-19 12:16:51 PM  

Joe Blowme: Baryogenesis: Samaura: Obama 2008-2012, you can do your own research. Dont forget the big bailouts bush helped pass after obama won the election and before he took office.

And before someone says uses that tired old arguement "But BUSH did X y z"
Bush was almost as bad at crippling us as a land of opportunity, but not THIS bad.

Yes, so bad you can't even be bothered to provide your own citations.

4 trillion in 8 years or 5 trillion in 3 1/2 years
its all about the debt math


Fun fact: statistically speaking, that the more fire fighters that showed up to a fire, the more damage to the home was done.

One argument is the simpler, low-effort thinking explanation. Obviously, fire fighters destroy homes.

The second argument is the right argument. It shows that the number of fire fighters that participate is proportional to the size of the fire. The fire is larger, it creates more damage.
 
2012-04-19 12:20:25 PM  

bhcompy: Except this isn't against their will. It's part of the stipulation of having the medical procedure done. You're consenting to the procedure in order to have the abortion. Since no one is forcing you to have the abortion, no one is forcing you to have a transvaginal ultrasound. The day someone is forced to have an abortion is the day that the accompanying transvaginal ultrasound is rape.


Coercion. How duz it werk?
 
2012-04-19 12:21:09 PM  

bhcompy: Hobodeluxe: bhcompy: Kar98: GAT_00: "It wasn't quite rape. It was painful, uncomfortable and it was a gigantic hard object shoved up inside me, but it wasn't quite rape."

Yes, we get it. We're aware that it isn't actually rape. It's simply the only comparable phrase and gets the point across, particularly the pain and degradation the procedure was intended to cause and was the reason for passing the bills requiring it.

Have a giant, hard object shoved up one's orifices against one's will is the very definition of rape though.

Except this isn't against their will. It's part of the stipulation of having the medical procedure done. You're consenting to the procedure in order to have the abortion. Since no one is forcing you to have the abortion, no one is forcing you to have a transvaginal ultrasound. The day someone is forced to have an abortion is the day that the accompanying transvaginal ultrasound is rape.

oh bullshiat it's a completely unnecessary,expensive and as with all medical procedures comes with it's own share of risks. this is having some wingnut politician/preacher/busybody come between a woman and their doctor. You're all for paying for this procedure out of your pocket but cry foul when someone asks for money for education for a child, for food,or even contraceptives. Fark all you self righteous assholes with a 10" wand.

Really? When did I say that?


when you said no one is forcing you to have this done because having an abortion is your choice. yes they are forcing you to have this done. simply to shame you. there's no medical reason to have this done. it's unnecessary,expensive,invasive and risky.
 
2012-04-19 12:30:15 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I don't envy the janitorial staff. That's gonna be a lot of jizz to mop up. Those stalls will look like a busy weekend at a peep show booth.


I'm sure the floor drains they installed to handle the usual human slime in that building were sufficient. The fire department just has to drop by once a day to hose down the seats
 
2012-04-19 12:37:05 PM  
Did he put his hoo hoo dilly in your choo choo?
 
2012-04-19 12:39:33 PM  

Hobodeluxe: bhcompy: Hobodeluxe: bhcompy: Kar98: GAT_00: "It wasn't quite rape. It was painful, uncomfortable and it was a gigantic hard object shoved up inside me, but it wasn't quite rape."

Yes, we get it. We're aware that it isn't actually rape. It's simply the only comparable phrase and gets the point across, particularly the pain and degradation the procedure was intended to cause and was the reason for passing the bills requiring it.

Have a giant, hard object shoved up one's orifices against one's will is the very definition of rape though.

Except this isn't against their will. It's part of the stipulation of having the medical procedure done. You're consenting to the procedure in order to have the abortion. Since no one is forcing you to have the abortion, no one is forcing you to have a transvaginal ultrasound. The day someone is forced to have an abortion is the day that the accompanying transvaginal ultrasound is rape.

oh bullshiat it's a completely unnecessary,expensive and as with all medical procedures comes with it's own share of risks. this is having some wingnut politician/preacher/busybody come between a woman and their doctor. You're all for paying for this procedure out of your pocket but cry foul when someone asks for money for education for a child, for food,or even contraceptives. Fark all you self righteous assholes with a 10" wand.

Really? When did I say that?

when you said no one is forcing you to have this done because having an abortion is your choice. yes they are forcing you to have this done. simply to shame you. there's no medical reason to have this done. it's unnecessary,expensive,invasive and risky.


There is no medical reasons for most abortions, either. Based on your statement, that means they shouldn't be done.
 
2012-04-19 12:44:53 PM  
I saw Transvaginal Ultrasound when they played at Coachella.
 
2012-04-19 12:45:22 PM  

bhcompy: Hobodeluxe: bhcompy: Hobodeluxe: bhcompy: Kar98: GAT_00: "It wasn't quite rape. It was painful, uncomfortable and it was a gigantic hard object shoved up inside me, but it wasn't quite rape."

Yes, we get it. We're aware that it isn't actually rape. It's simply the only comparable phrase and gets the point across, particularly the pain and degradation the procedure was intended to cause and was the reason for passing the bills requiring it.

Have a giant, hard object shoved up one's orifices against one's will is the very definition of rape though.

Except this isn't against their will. It's part of the stipulation of having the medical procedure done. You're consenting to the procedure in order to have the abortion. Since no one is forcing you to have the abortion, no one is forcing you to have a transvaginal ultrasound. The day someone is forced to have an abortion is the day that the accompanying transvaginal ultrasound is rape.

oh bullshiat it's a completely unnecessary,expensive and as with all medical procedures comes with it's own share of risks. this is having some wingnut politician/preacher/busybody come between a woman and their doctor. You're all for paying for this procedure out of your pocket but cry foul when someone asks for money for education for a child, for food,or even contraceptives. Fark all you self righteous assholes with a 10" wand.

Really? When did I say that?

when you said no one is forcing you to have this done because having an abortion is your choice. yes they are forcing you to have this done. simply to shame you. there's no medical reason to have this done. it's unnecessary,expensive,invasive and risky.

There is no medical reasons for most abortions, either. Based on your statement, that means they shouldn't be done.


Wow, those are horrible deductive reasoning skills.

What? I don't even. . .
 
2012-04-19 12:47:52 PM  
I've got a question, and yes I am displaying my ignorance.

Seeing as how abortion isn't covered by most health care plans, and especially not covered by any of the government insurance plans (medicaid, medicare, etc.)

Is the TVU covered, or is this an extra cost being placed upon someone who may already be in a very bad position economically speaking?
 
2012-04-19 12:58:26 PM  
I hate having to consent yearly to trans-vajayjay ultrasounds, but I do. They hurt. I have also had said probe shoved up my chocolate corridor as well. That was heaps of fun too, in a pull my fingernails out sort of way. It is a terrible thing that women are obliged to have this procedure done to have something that they should be medically entitled to... a huge pity.

If abortion is made illegal, difficult to obtain or otherwise hard to get, it will move underground and them we will have a huge jump in maternal mortality as well.

People will have sex, will have unwanted or non-viable pregnancies and that is just how it is. To attempt to regulate either due to some phony morals or for vote-mongering the Christian Taliban is just another example of how when money is your God, you will do anything for money.
 
2012-04-19 01:06:31 PM  

badlife: I've got a question, and yes I am displaying my ignorance.

Seeing as how abortion isn't covered by most health care plans, and especially not covered by any of the government insurance plans (medicaid, medicare, etc.)

Is the TVU covered, or is this an extra cost being placed upon someone who may already be in a very bad position economically speaking?


The TVU must be covered by the patient per the law.
 
2012-04-19 01:10:20 PM  

Fallout Zone: misanthropologist: So, since the reporter is able to compare her experience of transvaginal ultrasound with rape and say that this is not rape, can we assume that she has, in fact, been raped in the past? Not that I would wish that on anyone, or that I think forcing women to have transvaginal ultrasound performed when it's medically unnecessary is in any way reasonable. Just that if we're going to use the whole "putting-extreme-claims-to-the-test-by-personal-experience" schtick, we can't possibly compare two experiences unless we've experienced both referrents in the comparison. In the same way that all the tough guys who claim "waterboarding isn't torture" and say they'd volunteer to undergo it can't really compare it to other, more obvious forms of torture until they've also been beaten with hoses, suspended by their wrists, or had their nuts shocked with jumper cables run on a car battery.

So, I couldn't say that having a prostate exam is not the same as being raped because I haven't had some dude forcibly stick his dick up my ass?


Right. Even if your doctor has huge fingers. Hell, even if you consented to some dude (or your wife, with additional equipment) jamming a dick up your ass, it's not the same as rape. The physical act might even feel similar, but consent is the key.

My wife actually had a transvaginal ultrasound this morning. It was about the 8th time in the last month (we are going through in-vitro treatments). From what I can tell, the reporter describes it well. It is intrusive and can be painful, and should not be imposed on an unwilling woman.

Good luck with it. Sincerely.
 
2012-04-19 01:13:04 PM  

Loaf's Tray: The proper medical term is "intrasnatchial", pigmitter...


We aren't all vaginacologists, smart guy.
 
2012-04-19 01:13:53 PM  

bhcompy: Hobodeluxe: when you said no one is forcing you to have this done because having an abortion is your choice. yes they are forcing you to have this done. simply to shame you. there's no medical reason to have this done. it's unnecessary,expensive,invasive and risky.

There is no medical reasons for most abortions, either. Based on your statement, that means they shouldn't be done.


You think someone is forcing women to have abortions? Because that's the only way I can fathom that particular leap of logic.
 
2012-04-19 01:13:59 PM  
As a father of three, There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to do this to a woman. The on the belly sonogram is Just FINE at finding the baby inside.

Since most abortions occur in the first trimester, the "baby inside" is not large enough to detect with a belly sonogram.

I think if the party politics were removed from these arguments about women's health, this would likely be considered a good practice regardless of the goal of the mother. ... I'm not entirely sure why the u.s. can't be over the womb.

This is a useless procedure in this case. It gives no additional information, which is why doctors will not do it on their own. If it IS medically necessary, they will do it. Doing it over the womb would give you the same results as doing it over the sheets once the woman has left.

Lesson: If you choose sluthood, be ready to deal with the results.

This is the entire motivating factor for republicans

Pretend republicans are getting wrong, slash taxes and spend alot at the same time, is what makes people think reaganomics doesnt work. they arent practicing reaganomics. Its some bastardized hybrid.

The economy grows when money is circulated. Poor people spend/circulate all the money they can get their hands on because they have more needs and wants than money. This causes a growth in demand for goods and services and businesses make money and hire more people. Thus giving money to the poor boosts the economy. Giving money to the rich results in it being put away where it is not spent/circulated because they already have enough money to cover their needs and wants. This puts a break on economic growth because the rich/businesses don't hire people simply because they have money, there needs to be some work for them to do. Hireing someone just because you have some extra cash would be stupid and no-one has ever accused them of being stupid. Reaganomics assumes that the rich are stupid.

I view government as a parasite/host relationship with our economy. if you weaken your host, it'll eventually be unable to support you, as is evident over the last 6 years. Everyone, both sides, forgets that the government owns nothing but what it takes from the population.

There is your problem. The government is a vital part of the economy, it isn't an outside force. In my town, government spending makes up 60% of the economy. (This includes soldiers from the base going out to a local bar or restaurant, government contracts wit local contractors for building design and maintenance, old people getting their social security checks, etc...) Without government spending out town would not be possible. Three groups spend money, individuals, businesses and government. During an economic slow down, individuals don't spend money because they don't have any, and businesses don't spend money because there is no demand. Thus unless you want the economy to come to a grinding halt, the government MUST spend money. The problem we are running up against is that when times are good, and individuals and businesses are spending the government is supposed to pay down the debt they incurred during the last downturn. That was not done, so we entered this downturn with our credit already maxed.
 
2012-04-19 01:18:13 PM  

Loaf's Tray: GO AHEAD - THROW YOUR VOTE AWAY!


If you vote for someone you don't believe in, you've already done exactly that.

Now start thinking for yourself, rather than being told what to believe.
 
2012-04-19 01:25:39 PM  

midigod: Loaf's Tray: GO AHEAD - THROW YOUR VOTE AWAY!

If you vote for someone you don't believe in, you've already done exactly that.

Now start thinking for yourself, rather than being told what to believe.


Well, if you think I should...
 
2012-04-19 01:27:30 PM  
Imagine going to have your tonsils or appendix removed. Now imagine that some people are so anti-tonsil and appendix removal that they legislate for doctors to have to shove a huge scanning device down your throat or up your ass so you can see the poor organs that you want taken out and are hopefully guilt-tripped into not taking them out.

Sounds retarded and pointless, right? That's exactly what this is like. The only reason they want this done is to shame, violate, and guilt-trip women. Make the process so uncomfortable and invasive that you'll hopefully scare away women from wanting to get abortions.

One day they'll advocate locking pregnant women in solitary so that the precious fetus can be grown and birthed. Too bad they don't spend this amount of time, effort, and money on the hundreds of thousands of parentless, homeless children already out there.
 
2012-04-19 01:39:03 PM  
Opps! I'm sorry. That was your asshole.

The good news is there isn't a baby in there either.
 
2012-04-19 01:42:14 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Well, if you think I should...


Wow. That was funny. I guess the whole "thinking for yourself" thing just isn't for you.
 
2012-04-19 01:49:06 PM  
I once had sex before at it wasn't rape either.

What's your point you stupid biatch?
 
2012-04-19 01:50:27 PM  
Whar HERO tag for the reporter???

Now that's some serious investigative reporting Lou!
 
2012-04-19 01:51:57 PM  

Loaf's Tray: The proper medical term is "intrasnatchial", pigmitter...


Transtwattal?
 
2012-04-19 02:03:49 PM  
Theaetetus
Say the law required you to get punched in the face before an abortion. Would you argue that they consent to being punched in the face because no one is forcing them to get an abortion?

In any case, you're wrong. Consent can be highly specific. Check out Mohr v. Williams, where a patient consented to surgery on his right ear, and while under anesthesia, the doctor determined his left ear needed the same procedure. Since the patient never consented to that, the doctor was held liable for battery.

I detect a 1L!!
 
2012-04-19 02:19:15 PM  

midigod: Loaf's Tray: Well, if you think I should...

Wow. That was funny. I guess the whole "thinking for yourself" thing just isn't for you.


Oh lighten up, it was a Simpsons joke...the air must be thinner up on top of that soapbox...

//QUESSHUN ERRTHANG!!1!
 
2012-04-19 02:42:08 PM  

Walker: It was not, however, like being raped, despite all the furor-generating headlines and "Doonesbury" cartoons that were printed.

Uh dumbass, that's because for you it was consensual. You wanted the procedure done. For other women the government passed a law saying a long rod must be shoved up their hoo-hah against their will. That's called rape. Government mandated rape.


Done in one.
 
2012-04-19 03:02:52 PM  
FTFA:

It was not, however, like being raped...


You know what, Ms. Intrepid Reporter? You volunteered for this. The women who will be forced to do this when seeking an abortion aren't.
 
2012-04-19 03:13:16 PM  
Sorry lady. I'm sure your agenda and preserving the definition of rape victims for their sensibilities is admirable, but anyone forcing anything into your body without consent is rape, even if it doesn't really hurt a whole lot.

"Yeah, I know I said no, but it didn't really hurt so it wasn't rape, right?" is heard an awful lot in these cases. Yes, it was rape. It is rape for a stranger to do this to you with a penis or a flash light and it is rape for a doctor to do this unnecessarily. It is rape if the government orders this to be done. It doesn't have to hurt or be traumatic to be rape.

Besides, you volunteered. Of course you don't "feel" like you were raped. Now be scared, vulnerable, have the world judging you and no matter what you do you can't make the right choice then have the government say that you must have this done while they know it is completely unnecessary. That is rape with all the ensuing emotional trauma. Good enough for you? Now, shut the hell up.
 
2012-04-19 03:17:52 PM  

gadian: Sorry lady. I'm sure your agenda and preserving the definition of rape victims for their sensibilities is admirable, but anyone forcing anything into your body without consent is rape, even if it doesn't really hurt a whole lot.


Can you tell me how it is not consented?
 
2012-04-19 03:29:39 PM  

bhcompy: Can you tell me how it is not consented?


Just because you show up for the abortion doesn't mean you're consenting to the unnecessary transvaginal ultrasound. If you have to show up for the procedure under duress in order to get the abortion, that's not consent. The only thing you are consenting to is the legal abortion procedure and necessary testing. Strong arming women into the unnessecary TV ultrasound in order to make them "understand" what they're doing is not part of an abortion.

Think of it like this, if you're intimidated or forced to sign a legal document, the document is invalid. This is similar.

I think it's hilarious. If a private citizen does this, its a despicable crime (the rape or the blackmail) if the government does it, its sensible, respectful, and necessary law.
 
2012-04-19 03:29:59 PM  

OhLuverly: StrangeQ: OhLuverly: "Your abortion provider will give you medication for pain and possibly sedation. You will lie on your back with your feet in stirrups and a speculum is inserted to open the vagina. A local anesthetic is administered to your cervix to numb it. Then a tenaculum (surgical instrument with long handles and a clamp at the end) is used to hold the cervix in place for the cervix to be dilated by absorbant rods that vary in size. The rods may also be put in a few days prior to the procedure. When the cervix is wide enough, a cannula, which is a long plastic tube connected to a suction device, is inserted into the uterus to suction out the fetus and placenta. The procedure usually lasts 10-15 minutes, but recovery can require staying at the clinic for a few hours. Your doctor will also give you antibiotics to help prevent infection."

They're worried about the ultrasound? I've had one of these ultrasounds before, they are uncomfortable certainly but it isn't rape and certainly no where near as traumatic as the actual abortion itself.

So what's one more thing they should have to be subjected to, right?

ok let me clarify, as a rape survivor. This is no where near rape. The pelvic exam after a rape is more intrusive than the ultrasound. So yes I'd appreciate it if people would stop acting like having a doctor probe you who will stop or slow down if things become too painful is anything like being crushed under the weight of a full grown man while he forces himself on you. thanks that's all.


From what I've read, the rape comparison is partly because of the consent thing, but also because it violates the rape laws of that state. I'm not sure why everyone's forgetting that since back when this first came up, that was an entire thread.

/So no, not rape-rape, but technical rape
//And what happened to you really, really, really sucks--lots of kittens and warm fuzzy happy thoughts.
 
2012-04-19 03:35:01 PM  

tophergartman: I think that as girls "come of age" they should get a button installed on their bodies, an abortion button. Then all this trans-hoo-hah nonsense would never happen.
[soloprpro.com image 640x512]
^ ^ Press to abort ^ ^ Abort Abort ^ ^


Abort / Retry / Fail ?
 
2012-04-19 03:36:00 PM  

gadian: bhcompy: Can you tell me how it is not consented?

Just because you show up for the abortion doesn't mean you're consenting to the unnecessary transvaginal ultrasound. If you have to show up for the procedure under duress in order to get the abortion, that's not consent. The only thing you are consenting to is the legal abortion procedure and necessary testing. Strong arming women into the unnessecary TV ultrasound in order to make them "understand" what they're doing is not part of an abortion.

Think of it like this, if you're intimidated or forced to sign a legal document, the document is invalid. This is similar.

I think it's hilarious. If a private citizen does this, its a despicable crime (the rape or the blackmail) if the government does it, its sensible, respectful, and necessary law.


Undesired and unnecessary are not unconsented.
 
2012-04-19 03:42:56 PM  

Theaetetus: bhcompy: Except this isn't against their will. It's part of the stipulation of having the medical procedure done. You're consenting to the procedure in order to have the abortion. Since no one is forcing you to have the abortion, no one is forcing you to have a transvaginal ultrasound. The day someone is forced to have an abortion is the day that the accompanying transvaginal ultrasound is rape.

Say the law required you to get punched in the face before an abortion. Would you argue that they consent to being punched in the face because no one is forcing them to get an abortion?

In any case, you're wrong. Consent can be highly specific. Check out Mohr v. Williams, where a patient consented to surgery on his right ear, and while under anesthesia, the doctor determined his left ear needed the same procedure. Since the patient never consented to that, the doctor was held liable for battery.


You seem to know what you're talking about, legal-wise (you must have a GED in law, no?)

Do you remember the case of the guy who had some kind of head trauma, was transported to the ER (by ambulance, I believe), a doctor tried a common procedure to determine some kind of injury on the guy and he got all Phineas Gage on the medical staff and declared that he would sue?

The procedure involved a digit in the buttocks.

Does that sound familiar? Is it similar to what Texass is pushing here? If not, how is it different?

/Thank you in advance.
 
2012-04-19 03:49:09 PM  

Bontesla: badlife: I've got a question, and yes I am displaying my ignorance.

Seeing as how abortion isn't covered by most health care plans, and especially not covered by any of the government insurance plans (medicaid, medicare, etc.)

Is the TVU covered, or is this an extra cost being placed upon someone who may already be in a very bad position economically speaking?

The TVU must be covered by the patient per the law.


So, the patient is paying for them? Even though they are not medically necessary? And the gubmint is mandating them?

I'm taking crazy pills.
 
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