Ambivalence: At first I was like "What the hell?" but then I noticed it's in the U.K.

Carry on crazy brits. FTA:

"The woman's barrister argued that sex was an "ordinary incident of life" in a hotel room, much like showering and sleeping."

IF that were true hotels would leave complementary condoms on your pillow.

so much fail here ..

king_nacho: No, it has nothing to do with the job itself, it has to be with being away from home, if you are on official business travel it is the responsibility of the employer to ensure safe conditions anywhere you may be. If the employer is paying for the hotel room, then they are responsible for anything that happened in it, so long as you weren't breaking any laws.

This.

The employer's insurer for worker's comp claims may seek to recover the cost from the hotel's insurer, though.

It really depends on whether the lamp was precarious in some way (the hotel was negligent) or the guests were...er....swinging from the chandeliers.

Giggity.

But yeah, if she'd been on the trip and taken the client for a round of golf, gotten hurt on the golf course---it's a customary business entertainment. Workers' comp pays, again.

Take a client to a working lunch and get in a car wreck on the way there or back, get injured, it's a workers' comp personal injury claim, not a personal injury claim on the regular car insurance---because you were on the job. And it matters because the personal injury coverage of the regular car insurance doesn't have the kind of disability coverage that goes with workers' comp.

I temped years ago for General Reinsurance---the company that helps most of the big companies do their umbrella policies in case of super-huge claims--a lot of it workers' comp. Picked up a few cool bits of trivia on that job.

It was stupid for the company to get sticky over it. People just get prudish about sex. But part of why the company were assholes about it was probably because most large companies tend to self-insure on worker's comp claims and just carry an umbrella policy against very large claims. The downside of self-insuring is a company feels like every single claim is coming directly out of its pocket and can be motivated to be stupid and go to court over what sounds like "principle" instead of paying up on a legit claim.

palelizard: king_nacho: lyanna96: palelizard: ... but I'm still grasping at why activities in her hotel room would be covered by worker's comp at all, unless she's considered working the entire time she's on the trip--...


THIS.

So sex is part of the job that she's being paid for....?

No, it has nothing to do with the job itself, it has to be with being away from home, if you are on official business travel it is the responsibility of the employer to ensure safe conditions anywhere you may be. If the employer is paying for the hotel room, then they are responsible for anything that happened in it, so long as you weren't breaking any laws.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I'll take your word for it. But it sounds like companies get the short end of the stick there. There's any number of stupid, dangerous but legal things folks could get up to and then blame on the company.

This isn't really a strange concept. When you send someone on business you're more or less responsible for them through travel(air/car/etc) and accommodations because you're the one that sent them there and you're paying for it. If they were on a business trip to LA and broke their leg at Disneyland the case would be much weaker, since the person was paying for their own activity outside of what the company provides. In this case, they're doing a normal activity in their company paid for room, which is what puts them on the hook. In the future, they'll come up with some kind of moral policy, if legal, to prevent the situation from happening or come up with some kind of travel liability contract, if legal.

Submitted First With a Better Headline

Hah. Awesome. Sounds like she had some awesome sex and then wound up getting money, too. Congrats, lady!

Whore.

king_nacho: you've not stayed in to many hotels have you? While generally they aren't complimentary, any hotel with a mini bar has at least condoms, many have lube and other things in the room.

What hotels are you staying at? I've never seen that.

palelizard: Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I'll take your word for it. But it sounds like companies get the short end of the stick there. There's any number of stupid, dangerous but legal things folks could get up to and then blame on the company.

A lot of this is more a case of wrangling between insurance companies. Her injuries are almost certainly covered by some kind of health insurance---or since it's Australia, I'm not sure how it works there wrt some kind of national coverage.

When the coverage who would cover it if the injury was on her own time pays out, they want to know if there's a situation where someone else is liable so that they can recover what they paid out. So they ask the questions. And if there is, a lot of times if the other party---the guys that are liable---won't pay up on their own, the guys that covered will go ahead and take it to court to make them.

A lot of this is wrangling between insurers, governments, and companies to preserve a status quo where when a "loss" happens, they sort out the facts of what happened, the facts determine who is financially responsible for the loss, and whoever is financially responsible reimburses whoever went ahead and paid to care for the patient.

The lawsuits are generally just to make sure no entity in the whole mix of insurers, governments, companies can welsh out on their responsibility if the rules say that they're the one that get's stuck with the costs of the "loss."

So in this case, whoever is paying for this woman's care, or whoever will get stuck taking care of her if the company doesn't, doesn't want to get stuck.

And what they particularly don't want is to set the precedent in the mind of this company or other companies that they can start refusing to reimburse claims because they just don't feel like it because they don't like what the insured was doing when the insured got injured.

This dispute isn't really between the woman and the company. This dispute is between the company and the other entities that are getting stuck with her bills.

king_nacho: palelizard: king_nacho: lyanna96: palelizard: ... but I'm still grasping at why activities in her hotel room would be covered by worker's comp at all, unless she's considered working the entire time she's on the trip--...


THIS.

So sex is part of the job that she's being paid for....?

No, it has nothing to do with the job itself, it has to be with being away from home, if you are on official business travel it is the responsibility of the employer to ensure safe conditions anywhere you may be. If the employer is paying for the hotel room, then they are responsible for anything that happened in it, so long as you weren't breaking any laws.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I'll take your word for it. But it sounds like companies get the short end of the stick there. There's any number of stupid, dangerous but legal things folks could get up to and then blame on the company.

Yeah, which is why you send two people that hate each other, and force them to stay in the same room.

Dear God, man, they're business professionals, not grad students!

lyanna96: palelizard: ... but I'm still grasping at why activities in her hotel room would be covered by worker's comp at all, unless she's considered working the entire time she's on the trip--...


THIS.

So sex is part of the job that she's being paid for....?

She was working for the human relations department, so I guess so.
A well written article, all the pertinent details and all the salicious gossip.

Important note for hotel sex: If your partner is going "Ou" be sure and check that a lamp hasn't fallen on their face.

This is very confusing. Does that mean that one is working the entire time when on a business trip? Anything I do falls under the authority of and duty towards my job? This means having sex and getting drunk are part of my job description? Well, not the sex part...usually just me getting drunk. It's a good job.

The Judge ruled that "if the applicant had been injured while playing a game of cards in her motel room she would be entitled to compensation"

Actually, this makes zero sense too.

Julie Cochrane: It was stupid for the company to get sticky over it.

Your comment was full of smarts, but this sentence really stands out.

Ambivalence: At first I was like "What the hell?" but then I noticed it's in the U.K.

Carry on crazy brits. FTA:

"The woman's barrister argued that sex was an "ordinary incident of life" in a hotel room, much like showering and sleeping."

IF that were true hotels would leave complementary condoms on your pillow.

I've been in a hotel in Glasgow where there were condoms (and other stuff) as part of the bar service. So not complementary but available for purchase in room.

/didn't need them
//foreveralone.jpg

pudding7: king_nacho: bhcompy: king_nacho: you've not stayed in to many hotels have you? While generally they aren't complimentary, any hotel with a mini bar has at least condoms, many have lube and other things in the room.

What hotels are you staying at? I've never seen that.

Any hotel near a conference center that isn't a holiday inn express.

I have also never seen that.

Never heard of it, either, not at anywhere I've stayed or worked. I'm not saying it never happens, but not at 'any hotel with a mini bar.'

Submitted First With a Better Headline: pudding7: king_nacho: bhcompy: king_nacho: you've not stayed in to many hotels have you? While generally they aren't complimentary, any hotel with a mini bar has at least condoms, many have lube and other things in the room.

What hotels are you staying at? I've never seen that.

Any hotel near a conference center that isn't a holiday inn express.

I have also never seen that.

Never heard of it, either, not at anywhere I've stayed or worked. I'm not saying it never happens, but not at 'any hotel with a mini bar.'

It's not even that way in Vegas, and Vegas is the home of debauchery.

/and I've stayed at plenty of hotels for conferences

Heron: Ambivalence: At first I was like "What the hell?" but then I noticed it's in the U.K.

Carry on crazy brits. FTA:

"The woman's barrister argued that sex was an "ordinary incident of life" in a hotel room, much like showering and sleeping."

IF that were true hotels would leave complementary condoms on your pillow.

Congratulations, you just argued that, because hotels don't provide you with condoms, sex is one is an abnormal act that no one should have any right to undertake. I hope you're proud of yourself.

As to the article, the case was correctly judged and obviously so. If, as the judge says, workers comp would be provided if a wall lamp fell on her in the course of playing cards, then there's no real reason beside bald-faced prudery to exclude payment for the same occurrence during sexual congress. I do find it odd, however, that this is a worker's comp issue, and not a suit against the hotel given that the loose light fitting is the cause of injury.

Presumably worker's comp covers any injury revived in the course of employment, which would include an injury from a hotel on a business trip. The employer's insurer is free to sue the motel to get them to pay it, and they probably will, but this women doesn't need to worry about that.


palelizard: Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I'll take your word for it. But it sounds like companies get the short end of the stick there. There's any number of stupid, dangerous but legal things folks could get up to and then blame on the company.

Companies typically insure for these types of claims. And just like any insurance company, they hate to pay money when they don't have to. The lawyers for the business's insurance will soon be showing up in court against the hotel. The hotel will then make a claim against their lawsuit insurance.

Insurance makes the world go round...

If the lamp randomly fell off the wall, then hotel pays.
If she damaged the mounting and then the lamp fell, she pays. (doesnt matter is it was sex, football, or raiding in WoW)
unless, she is a construction worker mounting things on the wall, then maybe.
Work should not pay at all.


/HE mounted something on that wall!

My Login Name: If the lamp randomly fell off the wall, then hotel pays.
If she damaged the mounting and then the lamp fell, she pays. (doesnt matter is it was sex, football, or raiding in WoW)
unless, she is a construction worker mounting things on the wall, then maybe.
Work should not pay at all.


Worker's comp laws would apply to this, since it was a business trip in a room paid for with business funds. So all she has to do is file the claim. Employer rejected it, so she sued. Normally the process isn't that involved. But that doesn't mean the business is gonna bear the cost- they or their insurer now gets to file the negligence claim against the hotel. They'll sue for her bills plus legal fees, and they'll probably get it. Hotel pays, but the women hurt doesn't have to go through that suit herself. The business responsible for putting her in that environment gets to handle it, or handle it by proxy.

This should be a lawsuit on the hotel that had the loose lamp fixture.

If you were my employee and I was told I had to pay because when you're having sex, you're on the clock, then after that, I'm going to treat you like a whore, just like the court ruled.

JuggleGeek: This should be a lawsuit on the hotel that had the loose lamp fixture.

If you were my employee and I was told I had to pay because when you're having sex, you're on the clock, then after that, I'm going to treat you like a whore, just like the court ruled.

She wasn't on the clock. She was on a business trip, but was not being paid for that time. She was receiving a per diem to cover meals, and the room was paid for as part of the trip. Which puts the employer on the hook for worker's comp. It's also a scenario that allows the business to the sue party directly responsible (the hotel) for damaging their business asset.

Are these distinctions really that farking hard to understand? I realize the intricacies of the law aren't always that easy to grasp by people who have never been exposed to it, but Jesus, it's been explained quite a few times in here.

meanmutton: Nickster79: The Judge ruled that "if the applicant had been injured while playing a game of cards in her motel room she would be entitled to compensation"

Seriously?

Crazy Australian worker's comp laws.

I'm pretty sure that, in america, this would be considered a frolic and detour... but I don't know... I tend to lean towards on-the-job injuries for worker's comp. maybe that legal arena is more broadly litigated than I am aware.

Seems a bit weird. Suppose I'm playing cards in my hotel room and a light fixture falls on me. Let's assume I get worker's comp at this point, although that seems like a stretch to me.

Now let's assume that instead of playing cards I'm jumping up and down on the bed (alone) and I hit the wall and knock the light fixture down on my head. Do I still get worker's comp? I dunno about this. Seems iffy to me.

OTOH now she can forever say that worker's comp funded her sex romp, so she's got that going for her.

That's an interesting intrepretation of "course and scope of duties".

/I've seen crazier claims though...

Was it work related sex?

groppet: Was it work related sex?

Isn't all sex?

I thought "You're doing it wrong" would be a more appropriate Weeners.

The Voice of Doom: I would reason like this:
woman got injured -> was only at the place of the accident because of a work requirement -> company('s insurance) has to compensate -> company('s insurance) might go after hotel in case there was negligence

Not sure how the WC laws work in Australia, but in most of the US, the compensation would not incorporate any "pain and sufferring" and only the full medical and only a portion of your average weekly wage (as an incentive to get back to work), where a 3rd party liability claim gives you the ability to be fully indemnified for your losses. Which is why I asked why would she not go after the hotel/motel first.

But does her chewing gum lose its flavor on the pubis overnight?

Bruce Campbell: Not sure how the WC laws work in Australia, but in most of the US, the compensation would not incorporate any "pain and sufferring" and only the full medical and only a portion of your average weekly wage (as an incentive to get back to work), where a 3rd party liability claim gives you the ability to be fully indemnified for your losses. Which is why I asked why would she not go after the hotel/motel first.

Could simply be a matter of timing. WC would pay now unless proven to be fraudulent or denied while a GL claim takes years to sort out if defense counsel feels like digging in.

Ken VeryBigLiar: Could simply be a matter of timing. WC would pay now unless proven to be fraudulent or denied while a GL claim takes years to sort out if defense counsel feels like digging in.

It had already been denied in 2007. The denial was just overturned so she hadn't been getting anything.

MyNameIsMofuga: I wonder what Rush Limbaugh thinks of this story.

Why?

miss diminutive: Maybe hotels should start providing sex helmets.

GIS for "sex helmets":

[www.adrants.com image 640x452]

Looks like a new HR policy in the making.

Bruce Campbell: It had already been denied in 2007. The denial was just overturned so she hadn't been getting anything.

I wasn't speaking to any TTD benefits, though I didn't see anything about it being originally denied. I see claims that often come in three to five years after the policy period (it's fun trying to explain them to states like Minnesota, Wisconsin and New Jersey) so for all I could see in the article she tried filing it recently.

Gumaraid: MyNameIsMofuga: I wonder what Rush Limbaugh thinks of this story.

Why?

Sarcasm?

pudding7: king_nacho: bhcompy: king_nacho: you've not stayed in to many hotels have you? While generally they aren't complimentary, any hotel with a mini bar has at least condoms, many have lube and other things in the room.

What hotels are you staying at? I've never seen that.

Any hotel near a conference center that isn't a holiday inn express.

I have also never seen that.

I agree, I travel a couple times a month and have NEVER seen that. And I would notice something like that.