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(Huffington Post)   Brooklyn DA's office knew woman recanted rape accusations, but indicted two men anyway because, hey, conviction rate = justice   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, criminal accusation, conviction rate  
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9296 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2012 at 4:43 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-20 06:30:47 AM  

RobSeace: Again, you can make the same exact argument against prison then... I'm not sure it would even make one any less of an asshole to support imprisoning innocent people vs. killing them... Some argue long prison sentences are effectively worse than death, which is one reason many people actually prefer life without parole for hideous crimes instead of death... So, which are you when it comes to prison, then: hubristic or an asshole? Or, do really want to see everyone released from prison and to stop imprisoning anyone else from now on?


You avoid irreversible punishments.

RobSeace: Me, I'll stick to my dream that one day we can get our shiat together and stop convicting innocent people of any crime for any punishment...


A worthy goal, but it will never be realized.
 
2012-04-20 07:13:33 AM  

Babwa Wawa: You avoid irreversible punishments.


How is locking someone up for 10, 20, 30 or more years a "reversible" punishment? Do we have the technology to return those missing years of their life to them (while erasing whatever horrors they encountered while in prison) and I wasn't told about it?? Just because they're still technically alive and we can let them out to live out the rest of their life free doesn't really mean a whole lot when we've effectively stolen a very large chunk of their life from them, likely traumatized them by the experience, and likely ruined any chance they now have to live anything resembling a normal or happy life... Just being alive is not really enough...
 
2012-04-20 07:25:42 AM  

RobSeace: Babwa Wawa: You avoid irreversible punishments.

How is locking someone up for 10, 20, 30 or more years a "reversible" punishment? Do we have the technology to return those missing years of their life to them (while erasing whatever horrors they encountered while in prison) and I wasn't told about it?? Just because they're still technically alive and we can let them out to live out the rest of their life free doesn't really mean a whole lot when we've effectively stolen a very large chunk of their life from them, likely traumatized them by the experience, and likely ruined any chance they now have to live anything resembling a normal or happy life... Just being alive is not really enough...


Ask any one of the poor jerks who've had their convictions overturned after a decade or more whether they'd prefer to be dead.
 
2012-04-20 08:55:59 AM  

Babwa Wawa: Ask any one of the poor jerks who've had their convictions overturned after a decade or more whether they'd prefer to be dead.


Well, sure, and I imagine if you asked the same of a captured POW who was tortured every day of incarceration, he'd say the same, but that hardly makes the experience any more bearable or justifiable or supportable... Will to live is generally very strong in most people (and other animals, for that matter)... But, that still doesn't change the fact that their life is now altered in an unchangable way, and a large portion of it is simply gone leaving them nothing but traumatic memories of the experience... Is it better than just killing them? That's debatable... But, yeah, probably... But, it's still not something I want to see any innocent person put through, and I for one don't accept the inevitability of subjecting innocents to such treatment...
 
2012-04-20 02:02:31 PM  

RobSeace: Babwa Wawa: Ask any one of the poor jerks who've had their convictions overturned after a decade or more whether they'd prefer to be dead.

Well, sure, and I imagine if you asked the same of a captured POW who was tortured every day of incarceration, he'd say the same, but that hardly makes the experience any more bearable or justifiable or supportable... Will to live is generally very strong in most people (and other animals, for that matter)... But, that still doesn't change the fact that their life is now altered in an unchangable way, and a large portion of it is simply gone leaving them nothing but traumatic memories of the experience... Is it better than just killing them? That's debatable... But, yeah, probably... But, it's still not something I want to see any innocent person put through, and I for one don't accept the inevitability of subjecting innocents to such treatment...


If you've got a petition for reducing the rate of unjustified incarceration, put me down for it. But the rate will never be zero - it will be an imperfect system. Which is one reason tthat killing people based on an imperfect system of judgment is a poor idea.

Another reason is that it does not deter crime or benefit society in any way. And yet another is that the unnecessary killing of people is like, wrong and all.

But you keep pimping for that death penalty OK? And let me know when we have a perfect justice system.
 
2012-04-20 02:34:18 PM  

Babwa Wawa: But the rate will never be zero - it will be an imperfect system.


And, you're cool with that? So, I guess put you down in the "asshole" column of your "asshole or hubristic" dichotomy? Because, that was my main point: if you're going to go off on anyone who would theoretically support an error-free death penalty as one or the other, you have to swallow your own medicine and choose one or the other for yourself as well if you support putting anyone in prison... Perhaps slightly less of an asshole, you might argue, but still...

Which is one reason tthat killing people based on an imperfect system of judgment is a poor idea.

Yeah, and when have I (or anyone else here) disagreed? I'm still holding onto my hubristic hope of a perfect system, remember?

Another reason is that it does not deter crime or benefit society in any way.

I would accept the first part of your statement as true, but not the second... I think permanently removing some people from society is a great deal of benefit... Yes, life in prison with no possibility of parole could serve the same function in theory; if you had perfect prisons that were completely escape proof! But, I know how you feel about achieving perfection, so I'm guessing that shouldn't be good enough for you, right? I'd probably be ok with it if you could build one, though then my concern would be how much it costs to keep him there for life vs. just killing him... (And, yes, I know current death penalty cases end up costing more than just throwing someone in prison for life due to endless appeals and such... Another reason I don't support the death penalty as the system currently is...)

And yet another is that the unnecessary killing of people is like, wrong and all.

Sure, but whether it's "necessary" or not in some cases is open for debate...

But you keep pimping for that death penalty OK?

Huh? When and how did I "pimp for" it exactly? I've said the current system is unacceptable due to innocent people still getting convicted... All I've "pimped for" is a justice system which doesn't convict innocent people of any crime or subject them to any punishment whatsoever... I think it's wrong to kill or imprison innocent people! Surely, you don't disagree with me on that? So, let's work on stopping that, and if/when we ever do, then let's talk about the relative merits of the death penalty under that error-free justice system... Deal?
 
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