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(MSNBC)   It's time for the Spring 2012 edition of 'researchers can't figure out why Gen Xers feel like they've been screwed over for good'   (today.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 312
    More: Obvious, Gen Xers, Gen X, dot-com bubble, time horizon, SSI, Harris Private Bank, cash value, online banking  
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14407 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2012 at 6:49 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-18 08:35:17 PM

Gone In 26 Minutes: Unless you're lucky, most people are stuck in the same dead-end, 9-5 grind as everyone else. It's a miserable, joyless, completely thankless life. Heaven forbid they want to do something that might give them a moment of joy!


See, I don't agree with, and frankly don't understand this attitude. Americans have far more free leisure time now than they have at any point in history.

If a 40 hour work week is a "miserable, joyless, completely thankless life" to you then I just don't think we could see eye to eye on much. Frankly that sounds like a whiny attitude.
 
2012-04-18 08:35:49 PM

TwoHead: Mr. Eugenides: So if the high income earners pay more in, they're owed more in the end.

Short answer: No

Long answer: If the short answer wasn't good enough for you then I guess we'll have to institute means testing too. Happy now?


Ahh, so the guy who makes $70K a year and spends all his income retiring with nothing should get higher benefits than the one holds back $12K of that a year for retirement. Good plan their Lou.
 
2012-04-18 08:38:39 PM
I'm an engineer and I make a fine living. Everyone should become an engineer and make a fine living as well. I had four great offers four months before I graduated.

What good is a liberal arts degree in THIS economy?
 
2012-04-18 08:40:29 PM

jetzzfan: I'm an engineer and I make a fine living. Everyone should become an engineer and make a fine living as well. I had four great offers four months before I graduated.

What good is a liberal arts degree in THIS economy?


summed up with this:

www.venue.nu
 
2012-04-18 08:40:49 PM

jetzzfan: I'm an engineer and I make a fine living. Everyone should become an engineer and make a fine living as well. I had four great offers four months before I graduated.

What good is a liberal arts degree in THIS economy?


And if everyone became an engineer, then you'd still be awash in high-salary job offers?
 
2012-04-18 08:41:00 PM
SoCalSurfer

Gdalescrboz: FTFA: "Though Xers might be comfortable with online banking, they're not the type to invest in the Internet."

Someone explain to me how one "invests in the internet."

Pets.com!


Well for everyone who isn't scared of the internet, I have an internet hedge fund that I have opened. Anyone interested in investing in it send me a private message.
 
2012-04-18 08:43:21 PM

pxlboy: is this where the engineers come out in force to tell the rest of that they're the only ones living comfortably anymore and doesn't it suck to not have a great engineering job with people chomping at the bit to hire you?

/or is that one of the others?


Come on, now. I didn't even try that hard.
 
2012-04-18 08:45:08 PM

FizixJunkee: jetzzfan: I'm an engineer and I make a fine living. Everyone should become an engineer and make a fine living as well. I had four great offers four months before I graduated.

What good is a liberal arts degree in THIS economy?

And if everyone became an engineer, then you'd still be awash in high-salary job offers?


this. there is also a shortage of them as a result of badly-structured education system. i recall reading an article stating that students in this country are disproportionately weak in math (as compared to all other subjects)

i'm just tired of all the smug attitudes. i have worked in IT since i was 21 and have seen the industry collapse under the weight of an oversaturated market and outsourced jobs.

so pardon me if i'm a little bitter.
 
2012-04-18 08:46:27 PM

namatad: desertfool: My wife and I save everything we can. We don't need fancy anything. We are like our great-grandparents. I have no faith in Social Security nor my 401K (Ponzi scheme.)

rofl
if you think your 401k is a ponzi scheme you are doing it wrong.
and by save do you mean putting bars of gold in the well out back??


Wish I could. Saving cash, since 0% interest rates aren't really helping. Just saving. Not spending. You know, earning and not spending it. The 401K will crash again soon. Just wait until (Spain, Italy, Portugal) crashes and the Euro goes in the shiatter again. I have money in there, don't get me wrong, but there is no safe place for a small saver any more.

And paying off all debt. Soon to pay off the house. That's a big one.
 
2012-04-18 08:46:49 PM
Did I just troll 3 people with a subpar troll?

Seriously though, U.S. born microelectronic engineers are in high demand. Mechanical, civil and regular electrical engineers can still find jobs, but it's not as easy.
 
2012-04-18 08:49:55 PM
Something is missing in this thread, usually there is total outrage about how the boomers farked the Gen-x and Gen-y people and everything wrong in the world is their fault. Also missing is the "old folks should die in a fire" and how the boomers "sucked the life out of the country".
 
2012-04-18 08:50:35 PM

thamike: How does reality work?


Just on the off chance anyone on FARK cares:

1. Reality has rules.
2. These rules can never under any circumstances be broken, bent, or fudged, no matter how special you think you are, how loudly you cry, or how big a temper tantrum you throw.
3. These rules, however, CAN be forgotten, and fairly easily too. Even the moderately sized and fairly localized temper tantrum that ended the Roman Empire was enough to destroy our knowledge of concrete mixing for a good 800 years before anyone else relearned it.
4. We don't know all the rules, and we aren't even 100% certain of the rules we think we know.
5. Finding out new details about rules we thought we knew doesn't actually make them change, it just means we've learned something about them we didn't know before.
6. Similarly, not knowing the rules doesn't grant you immunity to them, which is why forgetting them or refusing to learn them causes very bad things to start happening.
7. In fact, the rules don't give a fark about you. This seems to be the hardest thing for Gen X to realize, having been raised to believe that everything in the universe either loves them and wants them to be happy, or hates them and wants them to die.
 
2012-04-18 08:50:52 PM

jetzzfan: I'm an engineer and I make a fine living. Everyone should become an engineer and make a fine living as well. I had four great offers four months before I graduated.

What good is a liberal arts degree in THIS economy?


When colleges start handing out engineering degrees like you prescribe, the Liberal Arts majors will be saying the same thing you are now.

/Scarcity, how does it work

// Master a difficult language, i.e. Japanese, Korean, Hindi, or Chinese
///And maybe another one or two for good measure
////Watch when you never struggle to find work again
 
2012-04-18 08:52:45 PM

Mr. Eugenides: Ahh, so the guy who makes $70K a year and spends all his income retiring with nothing should get higher benefits than the one holds back $12K of that a year for retirement. Good plan their Lou.


That is one flaw with the means testing idea. It penalizes anyone who saves for retirement. Though savings rates are so low, this may be a moot point.

It also fundamentally changes the nature of the social security program from an elderly insurance program for everyone to a welfare program for poor people. This isn't a flaw, so to speak. It is more just a paradigm shift that we would have to admit to when making the change. The SS budget will then be part of the welfare portion of the national budget pie chart.
 
2012-04-18 08:52:47 PM

Phony_Soldier: /At Dell we had the option of investing part of our 401k in Dell stock - what a great idea.
//That was a long time ago


It was not that long ago at my company, all co matching in the 401k was FORCED into the company stock... until Congress passed a law that said companies were not allowed to anymore.

/transferred all company match into diversified funds the day the law took effect.
//glad I did, stock is currently in the shiatter
 
2012-04-18 08:52:53 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Gone In 26 Minutes: Unless you're lucky, most people are stuck in the same dead-end, 9-5 grind as everyone else. It's a miserable, joyless, completely thankless life. Heaven forbid they want to do something that might give them a moment of joy!

See, I don't agree with, and frankly don't understand this attitude. Americans have far more free leisure time now than they have at any point in history.

If a 40 hour work week is a "miserable, joyless, completely thankless life" to you then I just don't think we could see eye to eye on much. Frankly that sounds like a whiny attitude.


The problem is that the 40-hour work week supplying you enough money to live comfortably is slowly becoming a myth. Hell, the 40-hour work week in general is a myth these days considering how many places have mandatory overtime with shiatty compensation for it. Even if you do have a strict, 40-hour work week, you're probably not making enough money to live in anything other than a studio apartment and can barely afford basic utilities let alone any sort of fun. You probably have a second, possibly off the books, job in order to afford the meager amounts of fun you can have with the little free time you get. That's the reality of most people in the work force now.
 
2012-04-18 08:53:25 PM
As a GenX'er, I learned long ago, biatching about how the "Boomers" had it easy isn't going to change anything. Looking at what this current generation now graduating from college is dealing with and comparing to what we had to "deal with," we really do not have anything to complain about.

Thankfully, Social Security and Medicare, despite misplaced "warnings" are both on solid footing and given that solid footing, I think Congress should pass what I would call "Hands off my Social Security and Medicare Bill," which would ban any changes to both programs for 35 years. I would make it that changes can be made, but only with a "super-super majority" (99%) of both houses voting to make any changes to the program. This moratorium would keep politicians from scaring seniors and given that there is no downside to the hands off approach, I am certain everything will be just fine.
 
2012-04-18 08:57:43 PM
I'd be an engineer 'cause I like trains and making choo-choo noises but they want me to pee in a cup and fark that

sincerely,
casey jones
 
2012-04-18 08:59:25 PM

Gone In 26 Minutes: The problem is that the 40-hour work week supplying you enough money to live comfortably is slowly becoming a myth.


That could be fixed. Easily.
 
2012-04-18 09:00:30 PM

Gone In 26 Minutes: The problem is that the 40-hour work week supplying you enough money to live comfortably is slowly becoming a myth. Hell, the 40-hour work week in general is a myth these days considering how many places have mandatory overtime with shiatty compensation for it. Even if you do have a strict, 40-hour work week, you're probably not making enough money to live in anything other than a studio apartment and can barely afford basic utilities let alone any sort of fun. You probably have a second, possibly off the books, job in order to afford the meager amounts of fun you can have with the little free time you get. That's the reality of most people in the work force now.


I work an average of 42 hours a week and I do fine. So do the other 10,000 or so people that work at the same company in the same city.
 
2012-04-18 09:01:53 PM

WhyteRaven74: Nadie_AZ: Then watch more and more companies offer 3/4 time jobs to employees.

If they already have 401k plans it's just a switch to how things used to be for most of them.


Until they realized how farking stupid and irresponsible to make promises 50 years in the future to keep costs down now.

Pension liabilities farked the auto companies, other industrial companies, and are farking state and local governments now.

Your suggestion is a proven terrible idea.
 
2012-04-18 09:05:59 PM

Chevello: Phony_Soldier: 401ks are the stupidest things in the world for most people. Most people aren't investors and have no business using these as vehicles for retirement.

/So sad

(standing up) Hi, I'm Chevello, and I am one of these people. I can spend two hours a night for three weeks trying to decide what to allocate my 401k investments to, and still not have any idea what the hell I should do. The last two times I tried, the company that I work for changed retirement management companies a month later, which reverts all my changes to the defaults. It's difficult for me to understand, I get lost in the minutiae of it all, and it all comes back to "You should have gone to college so you can understand these."

I'm usually the guy in the 401k meetings with a disgusted look on my face and the question at the end, "I'm in my 40s and finally have a teeny bit of 'extra' income that I can divert to retirement. How much of my weekly should I be putting into retirement, and how much should I have in there at this stage in my life?" The answer ALWAYS is a treatise on how I should have started when I got my first job, and I would have hundreds of thousands stashed by now. To which my retort is that WalMart has had time machines on backorder for the last 6 months, and anyways I was busy enjoying my every other day meal back then, so please answer my farkING question.
I'm getting tired of being thrown out of those meetings.

/Proud owner of a 401k with a 0.0% growth since '97


401k's are yet another product foisted on us by the sociopaths looking to make bank off of honest, hard working people by exploiting their ignorance. And then they mock you for losing your hard earned money in their casinos because all of us schmucks with no economics or investment backgrounds/education/training had the bad fortune to actually invest in the funds they offered they offered us.
 
2012-04-18 09:08:02 PM

Tatterdemalian: 7. In fact, the rules don't give a fark about you. This seems to be the hardest thing for Gen X to realize, having been raised to believe that everything in the universe either loves them and wants them to be happy, or hates them and wants them to die.


So people should never bother to try to make things better right?
 
2012-04-18 09:08:41 PM
As long as you kids keep biatching about the Boomers, you'll never figure out who you should really blame. But then, they never did teach logical thinking in school, now did they?
 
2012-04-18 09:09:22 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Until they realized how farking stupid and irresponsible to make promises 50 years in the future to keep costs down now.


If you fund the pensions fully in the present, the future isn't much of a worry. And for auto companies, it's their own inability to generate revenues and not lose money that hurt them.
 
2012-04-18 09:10:04 PM
A simple solution--don't have kids.

1. You'll save a ton of money.
2. You'll save yourself the stress of parenthood.
3. It'll really piss off the greedy old folks to know they'll never have grand- or great-grandchildren.
4. A lack of worker drones will ultimately fark over the one-percenters.

Actually, the birth rate in industrialized countries has been falling steeply in the last decade or two. Even in the USA, it's fallen below the replacement rate of 2.1 kids per woman--and that's with the huge influx of Mexican immigrants. Heck, even in Muslim countries, the birth rate is falling. It's a colossal demographic shift that few in the media ever notice, and it's ultimately the thing that's going to take down global fascism...
 
2012-04-18 09:10:54 PM

Car_Ramrod: How was Gen X ever ignored?


I dunno about my fellow GenX'rs, but as child of the 70's, my parents both worked their asses off trying to keep up with whatever it was they were keeping up with.

6am to 7pm at GEAE, then home to pass out. I was lucky if I saw them on weekends, and we're talking about when I was in primary school.

Ignored... Oh yeah.

/Ran away for a month with a couple friends. None of our parents noticed until Greg didn't show up for his monthly "weekend at grandmas"
 
2012-04-18 09:12:50 PM

Psycat: 1. You'll save a ton of money.
2. You'll save yourself the stress of parenthood.


No kids.
54.
No grey hair.

Gonna retire and move to warmer climes.
 
2012-04-18 09:14:40 PM
I skipped having kids. It's turning out to have been the smart financial move.


/41, no wrinkles, no gray hair, and I only stress out for the endorphins...
 
Slu
2012-04-18 09:16:15 PM

Gone In 26 Minutes: Slu: I am a gen Xer. I plan on retiring normally with or without SSI. But I have been saving since I got my first job, am diversified, and will even be able to pay for my daughter to go to college.

I do it by not spending money like a drunken sailor. We only have 1 car. I have never bought a brand new car. I take the bus to work (with a baby). We don't have cable TV. I keep my computers for at least 6 years before I replace them, I don't have TF, etc. Save early and be smart and you too can be fine.

Translation: "Be a drone that can't afford to have fun in life and can only afford to 'live' to you can fund your child to be able to do the same thing in the future."

Sounds fun. I like my way better, though.


Yeah, wrong. I enjoy myself plenty. I just budget for the things I enjoy. I have NFL season tickets. I have traveled extensively around the world. I used to be in a band. I golf.

Really if you make a decent living, it is just silly to not save and make sure you spend your money wisely.

But keep doing what you want and I'll be sure to tip you for cleaning my golf clubs after my round when I am retired.
 
2012-04-18 09:17:27 PM
Lots of First World problems in this thread.
 
2012-04-18 09:19:24 PM

WhyteRaven74: Tatterdemalian: 7. In fact, the rules don't give a fark about you. This seems to be the hardest thing for Gen X to realize, having been raised to believe that everything in the universe either loves them and wants them to be happy, or hates them and wants them to die.

So people should never bother to try to make things better right?


Yeah, Raven, that's exactly what he said.
 
2012-04-18 09:21:31 PM

Psycat:

A simple solution--don't have kids.


You fail natural selection forever. Quite literally.
 
2012-04-18 09:21:43 PM

FLMountainMan: Lots of First World problems in this thread.


Agreed, but plenty of 2nd and 3rd world parts of the US these days.

/was just in Alabama last week, am thinking about investing in meth labs
 
2012-04-18 09:22:04 PM
Hagenhatesyouall
The best thing that could happen to this country is for a freaking meteor to land on D.C. while congress is in session and wipe that place clean off the map.

Don't wait and hope- actualize!
 
2012-04-18 09:22:15 PM

Slu: Gone In 26 Minutes: Slu: I am a gen Xer. I plan on retiring normally with or without SSI. But I have been saving since I got my first job, am diversified, and will even be able to pay for my daughter to go to college.

I do it by not spending money like a drunken sailor. We only have 1 car. I have never bought a brand new car. I take the bus to work (with a baby). We don't have cable TV. I keep my computers for at least 6 years before I replace them, I don't have TF, etc. Save early and be smart and you too can be fine.

Translation: "Be a drone that can't afford to have fun in life and can only afford to 'live' to you can fund your child to be able to do the same thing in the future."

Sounds fun. I like my way better, though.

Yeah, wrong. I enjoy myself plenty. I just budget for the things I enjoy. I have NFL season tickets. I have traveled extensively around the world. I used to be in a band. I golf.

Really if you make a decent living, it is just silly to not save and make sure you spend your money wisely.

But keep doing what you want and I'll be sure to tip you for cleaning my golf clubs after my round when I am retired.


To be fair, your initial contribution to the thread made it sound like you lived a completely spartan lifestyle, which didn't sound very appealing. Insinuating that a person should be miserable all throughout their youth and deny themselves certain creature comforts or entertainments so that they can live the high life once they're too old to really enjoy it, is depressing.

I try to be thrifty with my money as well. Used car, don't buy a lot of gadgets, coupon clipping, etc. But I also think that letting myself have some fun is important, and seems from your second post that you also think this. So I'm not sure what you're point was. NFL season tix cost more than basic cable, for example.
 
2012-04-18 09:23:22 PM
The farking Oz government is [has?] gonna introduce a law where employers get a ca$h kickback if they employ a person of a certain demographic.

Guess what demographic.

A farking Baby Boomer.

That's right. Poor widdle Baby Boomer's need help finding work awwwww. Unfarkingbelievable.
 
2012-04-18 09:23:29 PM

namatad: WhyteRaven74: brilett: Complaining on fark about Social Security being down to 75% in 20 years is much more effective than working to have the exclusions on wages over 100grand removed and the less than 1% increase in ta increase needed yo fix the problem.

Yeah the cut off for contributions is rather baffling.

when I first hit the cap ... I was like, why did my check go up this period???
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

now it just happens earlier and earlier every year.
just another way the 1% is farking over the 99%

why should they pay anything that will go to those people??


What do you mean? The reason your contribution stops at a certain level is because your benefit isn't increasing either.

Someone who makes 52,500 per year for their entire life will get half the SS benefit when they retire than someone who makes 105k. Someone making 210k will have roughly the same benefit as the guy who made 105k because they contributed the same amount. See how that works? When you and your employer pay SS tax on your behalf, your basically buying longevity, disability, and survivor insurance proportional to your contribution.

If you raise the cap, you need to raise the benefit for those who pay in more, doing nothing for long term solvency.

Now, if you raise the cap without raising the benefit, you'd improve solvency but you'd destroy social security as a self funded insurance program and turn it into another rich-funded welfare program. Which, of course, would mean that GOP criticisms of SS in recent decades were correct.

Now, if you make gradual changes to the SS tax rate over time without decoupling the cap/benefit relationship you can keep SS solvent over the long term. Just raise the rate by .1% each year until the program is solvent. Raise the retirement age another year or two to mitigate the tax hike, if you want, or dont.

SS is successful. It can remain successful if the participants are willing to pay necessary rates to compensate for demographic changes.
 
2012-04-18 09:24:37 PM
vudukungfu and skantea -- More power to ya!

Eventually, the Ayn-Ranting supersonic Nazi hell creatures who run the world are going to realize that the Best 'n' Brightest are dropping out of the gene pool at a phenomenal rate and that the offspring of welfare queens and religious fundies simply aren't smart enough to run a modern-day fascist empire. Worse yet, it's very hard to force people into parenthood--try getting an erection when there's a gun pointed at your head. I know a lot of very bright and talented people in my line of work and I guarantee you that the non-parents outnumber the parents by a HUGE margin.

Stick it to the Man, man...
 
2012-04-18 09:24:56 PM

Big Ramifications: That's right. Poor widdle Baby Boomer's need help finding work awwwww. Unfarkingbelievable.


Argh! The ultimate crime, sorry about that. My rant is ruined.
 
2012-04-18 09:25:52 PM
Find a job you love and it's not work. Do this until you die. Why would I want to "retire" to have what I love to do taken away from me? ...and do what?
 
2012-04-18 09:26:12 PM

T-Servo: FLMountainMan: Lots of First World problems in this thread.

Agreed, but plenty of 2nd and 3rd world parts of the US these days.

/was just in Alabama last week, am thinking about investing in meth labs


2nd world problems in Alabama? Seems an odd place for the communists to have a foothold.
 
2012-04-18 09:26:17 PM
If you think Gen-Xers are feeling screwed now, wait until our kids are getting screwed by the Gen-Xers.

That will be a royal farking, the likes of which have not been seen since Catherine the Great. There will be foreplay. There will be playdates, private kindergartens, accelerated elementary school programs, middle school magnet schools, blue ribbon high schools, expensive out-of-state private colleges, then non-stop, lube-free, condom-free, bloody ass-farking of these ungrateful brats until either they die, we die, or they kill us.

These will be the good old days, when Gen-X was only being farked gently by the Boomers.
 
2012-04-18 09:26:40 PM
Psycat

A simple solution--don't have kids.

1. You'll save a ton of money.


Do i have to switch to Geicko?
 
2012-04-18 09:27:55 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: If you think Gen-Xers are feeling screwed now, wait until our kids are getting screwed by the Gen-Xers.


Gen Y has sharp knees and is way below my standards
 
2012-04-18 09:29:17 PM

Mr. Eugenides: TwoHead: Mr. Eugenides: So if the high income earners pay more in, they're owed more in the end.

Short answer: No

Long answer: If the short answer wasn't good enough for you then I guess we'll have to institute means testing too. Happy now?

Ahh, so the guy who makes $70K a year and spends all his income retiring with nothing should get higher benefits than the one holds back $12K of that a year for retirement. Good plan their Lou.


Don't blame me. You're the one who apparently couldn't accept the short answer LaQuish'a'aa
 
2012-04-18 09:30:12 PM

WhyteRaven74: Debeo Summa Credo: Until they realized how farking stupid and irresponsible to make promises 50 years in the future to keep costs down now.

If you fund the pensions fully in the present, the future isn't much of a worry. And for auto companies, it's their own inability to generate revenues and not lose money that hurt them.


But nobody bids their defined benefit pension plans and OPEB plans at the time they promise them. Then they're farked when the bill comes due. Like the auto companies.
 
2012-04-18 09:38:28 PM
Yeah, yeah, gotta work til I die...yadda, yadda. W'ever. That's what 99 percent of humanity has had to do, though the vast majority had to do it for a far shorter time. At least I've got Fark and violent games to entertain me on the way to my grave.
 
2012-04-18 09:44:32 PM

Psycat: A simple solution--don't have kids.

1. You'll save a ton of money.
2. You'll save yourself the stress of parenthood.
3. It'll really piss off the greedy old folks to know they'll never have grand- or great-grandchildren.
4. A lack of worker drones will ultimately fark over the one-percenters.

Actually, the birth rate in industrialized countries has been falling steeply in the last decade or two. Even in the USA, it's fallen below the replacement rate of 2.1 kids per woman--and that's with the huge influx of Mexican immigrants. Heck, even in Muslim countries, the birth rate is falling. It's a colossal demographic shift that few in the media ever notice, and it's ultimately the thing that's going to take down global fascism...


great minds...
 
2012-04-18 09:44:51 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: But nobody bids their defined benefit pension plans and OPEB plans at the time they promise them. Then they're farked when the bill comes due. Like the auto companies.


Pension plans are incredibly easy to figure out, an eighth grader can figure out how much money per employee you have to contribute each year in order so that when they reach retirement age there's enough money there for them.

If you raise the cap, you need to raise the benefit for those who pay in more, doing nothing for long term solvency.

There's a maximum Social Security Retirement payment amount, once you hit that, no matter how much you made your Social Security check won't be any bigger.
 
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