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(Globe and Mail)   "The only reason Brendan Shanahan, Gary Bettman and their fellow NHL executives are sitting amidst the wreckage of the Stanley Cup playoffs is their lack of courage in their own convictions"   (theglobeandmail.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Gary Bettman, Stanley Cup, NHL, Marian Hossa, playoffs, James Wisniewski, Raffi Torres, Henrik Zetterberg  
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2108 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Apr 2012 at 12:06 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



203 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-04-18 12:07:45 PM  
Don't follow hockey much, but holy hell that was a cheap shot on Hossa.

Does Greg Williams moonlight as a defensive coach in the NHL?
 
2012-04-18 12:13:27 PM  
Hockey needs to outlaw those types of hits.. to the head or not.

There is no reason to blow up a player once he passes the puck...and there's very little reason to do it even if he has the puck.

Also Shanny has to STOP basing his decisions on the injury.

Neal'shiat on Couturier could have ended the same way as Torres hit on Hossa. The hits were almost identical.
 
2012-04-18 12:14:27 PM  
Shea Weber got a measly $2500 fine for trying to put Zetterberg's head through the glass (and cracking his helmet) after the end of regulation in a game the Preds won - and people wonder why the playoffs have become a free-for-all of goonery and dirty hits?
 
2012-04-18 12:17:13 PM  

MugzyBrown: Also Shanny has to STOP basing his decisions on the injury.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-18 12:17:37 PM  
That Hossa shot was one of the cheapest I saw in a long time. Hawks still should have won.
 
2012-04-18 12:18:44 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Don't follow hockey much, but holy hell that was a cheap shot on Hossa.

Does Greg Williams moonlight as a defensive coach in the NHL?


Didn't Ovechkin get suspended before the all-star break for leaving his feet on a check?
 
2012-04-18 12:19:25 PM  

LesserEvil: Shea Weber got a measly $2500 fine for trying to put Zetterberg's head through the glass (and cracking his helmet) after the end of regulation in a game the Preds won - and people wonder why the playoffs have become a free-for-all of goonery and dirty hits?


Shaw, Neal, and Asham have all gotten a few games since then. Torres will probably sit for a looooooooooong time.

Still, Shanahan set a bad precedent with the Weber ruling.
 
2012-04-18 12:19:41 PM  
The biggest problem is the refs don't attempt to take control of the game by penalizing the players DURING the game that take cheap and late shots on other players. You let that crap slide; it will only escalate during the game.

Fines after the game may or may not have any impact on future games. The NFL being a good example. Injuries and cheap shots still continue to happen there on a regular basis.

I don't want hockey to turn into a fine and suspension fest because it doesn't seem like it has any positive impact on future games.

/imho
//ymmv
///slashy hat trick
 
2012-04-18 12:20:04 PM  

groppet: That Hossa shot was one of the cheapest I saw in a long time. Hawks still should have won.


Seriously, that was some bush league shiat. That hit was unconscionable.

/Go Flyers!
 
2012-04-18 12:20:38 PM  
People need to move past the Weber incident as the 'baseline'

At the very least, Shannahan's been consistent since the Bitz suspension.

That however, was just Torres doing what he does a few times a year - and yeah, that's got to be a minimum of 5 games if not going closer to 10. No reason EVER to leave your feet like that, and that has to be the single most obvious 'leaving your feet' hit I can recall since Downie on McAmmond in a pre-season game.
 
2012-04-18 12:22:26 PM  
unrelated to the suspensions aspect of all this. while the refs may appear to be bad, and in favor of your home town's arch nemesis, you have to remember they are seeing these events 1 time, in live action, full speed. we get the benefit of jumbotron instant replay at 150% zoom, frame by frame zapruder film analysis.

torres should be suspended for a very long time.
whats the difference between banned and suspended? (backstrom suspended, neal banned)

LesserEvil: and people wonder why the playoffs have become a free-for-all of goonery and dirty hits?


no one is wondering. we all know why.
 
2012-04-18 12:22:37 PM  
If anything he should be suspended for the dumbass commentary it's generated. Some of the local idiots in the media have been saying it was a good, clean hockey hit and people should stop over-reacting. Of course these are the same morons who were calling for torches and pitchforks after Mark Bell laid out Alfredsson with a similar hit a few years ago.
 
2012-04-18 12:22:38 PM  

Killer Cars: MugzyBrown: Also Shanny has to STOP basing his decisions on the injury.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]


This is true in the NFL, too. Just because a guy got a concussion doesn't mean the hit is dirty. Punishment should come from intent, not the outcome. Neal left his feet to hit the heads of two separate players within 45 seconds of playing time. He was looking to injure people. I'm glad he got suspended - hopefully it's for the rest of his season - but it's ridiculous how wildly different the punishments have been for players clearly intending to injure the opposition.
 
2012-04-18 12:23:13 PM  
Players taking note from the whole "doing the count to 10 WWE turnbuckle spot against the boards = $2500" thing, I mean, this ain't surprising.
 
2012-04-18 12:23:42 PM  
Wreckage? Really? These are great playoffs. A hard hit(meh, not super dirty, but clearly over the line) doesn't make the playoffs "wreckage".

/go Kings, send those dirty Canucks golfing early
 
2012-04-18 12:24:47 PM  
p.twimg.com
NO PENALTY
 
2012-04-18 12:25:01 PM  

Flappyhead: If anything he should be suspended for the dumbass commentary it's generated. Some of the local idiots in the media have been saying it was a good, clean hockey hit and people should stop over-reacting. Of course these are the same morons who were calling for torches and pitchforks after Mark Bell laid out Alfredsson with a similar hit a few years ago.


If you're not amused by that video currently making the rounds of the Phoenix commentators saying it was clean, I don't know what amuses you.
 
2012-04-18 12:25:18 PM  
Hit probably would've been fine if he hadn't have left his feet... That shiat needs to stop though. No reason to leave the ice when you're making a check.
 
2012-04-18 12:26:49 PM  

bhcompy: Wreckage? Really? These are great playoffs. A hard hit(meh, not super dirty, but clearly over the line) doesn't make the playoffs "wreckage".


suspensions so far in the 2012 post season.

Nicklas Backstrom WSH 04/17/2012 1 game for cross-checking
Arron Asham PIT 04/17/2012 4 games for cross-checking
James Neal PIT 04/17/2012 1 game for charging
Andrew Shaw CHI 04/17/2012 3 games for charging
Matt Carkner OTT 04/15/2012 1 game for fighting
Carl Hagelin NYR 04/15/2012 3 games for elbowing
Byron Bitz VAN 04/12/2012 2 games for boarding

25 post season games played to-date. 15 games of suspensions (not including torres...)


its wreckage.

 
2012-04-18 12:26:53 PM  
With Raffi's history, it should be the rest of this year and all of next year. Or make it an open ended suspension.

The NHL brass doesn't want to take it's stars out of the game with a suspension. The problem is that the players are taking stars out by themselves (Crosby, Zetterburg, Hossa, Sedin, etc...). If they don't police this themselves the players will revert back to the 60's & 70's and mete out their own justice.
 
2012-04-18 12:27:18 PM  
Tonight, Pittsburgh will dine in HELL!
 
2012-04-18 12:27:51 PM  

bart2puck: bhcompy: Wreckage? Really? These are great playoffs. A hard hit(meh, not super dirty, but clearly over the line) doesn't make the playoffs "wreckage".


suspensions so far in the 2012 post season.

Nicklas Backstrom WSH 04/17/2012 1 game for cross-checking
Arron Asham PIT 04/17/2012 4 games for cross-checking
James Neal PIT 04/17/2012 1 game for charging
Andrew Shaw CHI 04/17/2012 3 games for charging
Matt Carkner OTT 04/15/2012 1 game for fighting
Carl Hagelin NYR 04/15/2012 3 games for elbowing
Byron Bitz VAN 04/12/2012 2 games for boarding

25 post season games played to-date. 15 games of suspensions (not including torres...)


its wreckage.


No, it's either under-penalizing during the regular season or over-zealousness in the post-season.
 
2012-04-18 12:28:07 PM  

Caeldan: People need to move past the Weber incident as the 'baseline'

At the very least, Shannahan's been consistent since the Bitz suspension.

That however, was just Torres doing what he does a few times a year - and yeah, that's got to be a minimum of 5 games if not going closer to 10. No reason EVER to leave your feet like that, and that has to be the single most obvious 'leaving your feet' hit I can recall since Downie on McAmmond in a pre-season game.


Neal's leave your feet was pretty obvious.
Worst part is his one game was based on his earlier hit to Giroux with how the verbiage went from Shanahan.

Well, I still don't seen tonight as a "easy win" for Philly just because 3 Pitt folks are suspended. Gotta play to win.

Thread been greened yet btw?
 
2012-04-18 12:28:09 PM  

Flappyhead: it was a good, clean hockey hit


They were only going by what the Wheel of Justice says
 
2012-04-18 12:28:19 PM  

bhcompy: Wreckage? Really? These are great playoffs. A hard hit(meh, not super dirty, but clearly over the line) doesn't make the playoffs "wreckage".

/go Kings, send those dirty Canucks golfing early


The 'wreckage' referred to here is that there are 7 (soon 8) suspensions in the first week of the playoffs, compared to 7 all last postseason.
 
2012-04-18 12:28:36 PM  
My solution; cumulative suspensions. Let's say a player gets a one game suspension, he serves the one game. The next time he gets a one game suspension, he serves that, plus one for his previous suspension and his career total is two. His next suspension is also one game, so he serves three games. Next time he does something really stupid and gets five games, add that to his three and get 8 games. His next would be 8+ whatever the new offense warrants. For guys with multiple suspensions in the past, it adds up pretty quickly and you can see exactly how much a players "history" impacts the suspension.
 
2012-04-18 12:28:48 PM  

mainstreet62: Tonight, Pittsburgh will dine in HELL!


Well, yeah, doesn't make sense to go outside the city for dinner when the game starts at 7:30...
 
2012-04-18 12:29:04 PM  

mainstreet62: Tonight, Pittsburgh will dine in HELL!


Potentially...

i.imgur.com
 
2012-04-18 12:29:10 PM  
Andrew Shaw has a mostly inadvertent collision with goaltender Mike Smith in the playoffs behind the net that it looked like he was trying to avoid = major penalty, ejected from game, 3 game suspension.

Milan Lucic in the early season charges Ryan Miller and plows him over in the open ice, with no effort to avoid collision, in a hit that was 10X worse than the Shaw on Smith hit = no penalty, no ejection, no suspension.

You're full of shiat, Shanahan.
 
2012-04-18 12:29:20 PM  

bhcompy:
No, it's either under-penalizing during the regular season or over-zealousness in the post-season.


you are justifying why it is wreckage.
 
2012-04-18 12:29:25 PM  
Dear Shanahan,

Fan of yours here when you plated for the Wings. Please find where you put your spine and unleash a wave of bannination for this stupidity. Make an example of someome and ban them for the playoffs and 10 games next season. Fark it.
 
2012-04-18 12:30:05 PM  

Time Traveling Bunnies: Flappyhead: it was a good, clean hockey hit

They were only going by what the Wheel of Justice says


If it wasn't a good, clean hockey hit, then why was there no penalty. The ref was right there and had the full-hit occur exactly where he was looking.

p.twimg.com
 
2012-04-18 12:30:48 PM  

The_Pirate: Hit probably would've been fine if he hadn't have left his feet... That shiat needs to stop though. No reason to leave the ice when you're making a check.


Yeah, it would've been a big clean hit otherwise likely as it really wasn't LATE... (I think one person timed it at .8s after the puck left).

Also, the 2500 fine is a CBA issue - that's on the players to agree to more.

And factoring injury into the result is perfectly valid. Not to the extreme of game for game+1 missed, but a dirty hit that causes injury should get more games than a dirty hit that doesn't cause injury.
 
2012-04-18 12:31:32 PM  
Article nails it on the head. After the Shea Weber non-suspension, everybody in the league started thugging it up.

I'm trying to find a list of all the excessive crap, but I'm coming up short, so let's start one. Here's all the plays that have been suspension worthy, plus Shea Weber and the rough stuff I remember from Game 2 in STL/SJ:

Raffi Torres (PHO) on Marion Hossa (CHI)
Andrew Shaw (CHI) on Mike Smith (PHO)

James Neal (PIT) on Claude Giroux (PHI)
Arron Asham (PIT), crosscheck on Brayden Schenn (PHI)
Craig Adams (PIT) instigator on Scott Hartnell (PHI)

Nicklas Backstrom (WAS) crosscheck on Rich Peverly (BOS)

Carl Hagelin (NYR) on Daniel Alfredsson (OTT)
Matt Carkner (OTT) on Brian Boyle (NYR)
Chris Phillips (OTT) on Ryan Callahan (NYR)

Byron Bitz (VAN) on Kyle Clifford (LA)

Shea Weber (NAS) on Henrik Zetterberg (DET)

TJ Galiardi (SJ) on Andy McDonald (STL) (cracking his helmet)
Brent Burns (SJ) on Scott Nichol (STL)
 
2012-04-18 12:32:37 PM  

bart2puck: bhcompy:
No, it's either under-penalizing during the regular season or over-zealousness in the post-season.

you are justifying why it is wreckage.


Hockey is a physical, violent sport played on a surface built for finesse. I don't call this anything but as it has always been.
 
2012-04-18 12:32:53 PM  

robsul82: Flappyhead: If anything he should be suspended for the dumbass commentary it's generated. Some of the local idiots in the media have been saying it was a good, clean hockey hit and people should stop over-reacting. Of course these are the same morons who were calling for torches and pitchforks after Mark Bell laid out Alfredsson with a similar hit a few years ago.

If you're not amused by that video currently making the rounds of the Phoenix commentators saying it was clean, I don't know what amuses you.


Sorry man, but I'm numb to hometown commentators after someone linked me a compilation of that retard who calls the Bruins games.
 
2012-04-18 12:33:08 PM  

Caeldan:
And factoring injury into the result is perfectly valid. Not to the extreme of game for game+1 missed, but a dirty hit that causes injury should get more games than a dirty hit that doesn't cause injury.



agreed. attempted murder gets less time then murder(typically). the result has very much to do with the crime....
 
2012-04-18 12:33:32 PM  

notsosilentbob: My solution; cumulative suspensions. Let's say a player gets a one game suspension, he serves the one game. The next time he gets a one game suspension, he serves that, plus one for his previous suspension and his career total is two. His next suspension is also one game, so he serves three games. Next time he does something really stupid and gets five games, add that to his three and get 8 games. His next would be 8+ whatever the new offense warrants. For guys with multiple suspensions in the past, it adds up pretty quickly and you can see exactly how much a players "history" impacts the suspension.


I quite like that idea.

The argument from the NHLPA is that a player is double, triple, and quadruple serving past suspensions. But if you really want to change player attitudes and discourage thug-like behavior, that sounds like a good method to me.
 
2012-04-18 12:33:55 PM  

phyrkrakr: Article nails it on the head. After the Shea Weber non-suspension, everybody in the league started thugging it up.

I'm trying to find a list of all the excessive crap, but I'm coming up short, so let's start one. Here's all the plays that have been suspension worthy, plus Shea Weber and the rough stuff I remember from Game 2 in STL/SJ:

Raffi Torres (PHO) on Marion Hossa (CHI)
Andrew Shaw (CHI) on Mike Smith (PHO)

James Neal (PIT) on Claude Giroux (PHI)
Arron Asham (PIT), crosscheck on Brayden Schenn (PHI)
Craig Adams (PIT) instigator on Scott Hartnell (PHI)

Nicklas Backstrom (WAS) crosscheck on Rich Peverly (BOS)

Carl Hagelin (NYR) on Daniel Alfredsson (OTT)
Matt Carkner (OTT) on Brian Boyle (NYR)
Chris Phillips (OTT) on Ryan Callahan (NYR)

Byron Bitz (VAN) on Kyle Clifford (LA)

Shea Weber (NAS) on Henrik Zetterberg (DET)

TJ Galiardi (SJ) on Andy McDonald (STL) (cracking his helmet)
Brent Burns (SJ) on Scott Nichol (STL)


Note you won't see NJD or FLA there. No sir, we Devils are choking away the series like GENTLEMEN. Classy, classy gentlemen.
 
2012-04-18 12:34:19 PM  

netweavr: If it wasn't a good, clean hockey hit, then why was there no penalty. The ref was right there and had the full-hit occur exactly where he was looking.


I don't see an orange band so isn't that a linesman, and do they have the authority to make a call if it's a (should be) major like that?
 
2012-04-18 12:35:13 PM  

netweavr: Time Traveling Bunnies: Flappyhead: it was a good, clean hockey hit

They were only going by what the Wheel of Justice says

If it wasn't a good, clean hockey hit, then why was there no penalty. The ref was right there and had the full-hit occur exactly where he was looking.

[p.twimg.com image 600x395]


I think the ref was too busy putting on his "Oh shiat" face to blow the whistle. Plus if I remember correctly it was a little behind the play so he might not have been looking directly at it anymore.

Anyway, I've spun the Wheel 3 times and it always comes up "hockey play." Better luck next time Hossa.
 
2012-04-18 12:35:53 PM  

robsul82: phyrkrakr: Article nails it on the head. After the Shea Weber non-suspension, everybody in the league started thugging it up.

I'm trying to find a list of all the excessive crap, but I'm coming up short, so let's start one. Here's all the plays that have been suspension worthy, plus Shea Weber and the rough stuff I remember from Game 2 in STL/SJ:

Raffi Torres (PHO) on Marion Hossa (CHI)
Andrew Shaw (CHI) on Mike Smith (PHO)

James Neal (PIT) on Claude Giroux (PHI)
Arron Asham (PIT), crosscheck on Brayden Schenn (PHI)
Craig Adams (PIT) instigator on Scott Hartnell (PHI)

Nicklas Backstrom (WAS) crosscheck on Rich Peverly (BOS)

Carl Hagelin (NYR) on Daniel Alfredsson (OTT)
Matt Carkner (OTT) on Brian Boyle (NYR)
Chris Phillips (OTT) on Ryan Callahan (NYR)

Byron Bitz (VAN) on Kyle Clifford (LA)

Shea Weber (NAS) on Henrik Zetterberg (DET)

TJ Galiardi (SJ) on Andy McDonald (STL) (cracking his helmet)
Brent Burns (SJ) on Scott Nichol (STL)

Note you won't see NJD or FLA there. No sir, we Devils are choking away the series like GENTLEMEN. Classy, classy gentlemen.


You also don't see "Vladimir Sobotka (STL) on Dominic Moore (SJ) (breaking his nose)"
 
2012-04-18 12:36:59 PM  

Killer Cars: netweavr: If it wasn't a good, clean hockey hit, then why was there no penalty. The ref was right there and had the full-hit occur exactly where he was looking.

I don't see an orange band so isn't that a linesman, and do they have the authority to make a call if it's a (should be) major like that?


they tell the ref of any majors/intent to injures at the next whistle.

for this it would be: --tweet--. ref skates over to linesman. "what happened?". and linesman tells what he saw. this image shows hes behind hossa, so not a great view.
 
2012-04-18 12:37:34 PM  

Killer Cars: netweavr: If it wasn't a good, clean hockey hit, then why was there no penalty. The ref was right there and had the full-hit occur exactly where he was looking.

I don't see an orange band so isn't that a linesman, and do they have the authority to make a call if it's a (should be) major like that?


Let's go to the rulebook.

The Linesman must report upon completion of play, any circumstances pertaining to:
(i) Major penalties

Rule 20
(ii) Match penalties

Rule 21
(iii) Misconduct penalties

Rule 22
(iv) Game Misconduct penalties

Rule 23
(v) Abuse of Officials

Rule 39
(vi) Physical Abuse of Officials

Rule 40
(vii) Unsportsmanlike Conduct

Rule 75
(viii) Double-minor penalty when it is apparent that an injury has resulted from a high-stick that has gone undetected by the Referees

Rule 60

Should a Linesman witness a foul (above) committed by an attacking player or goalkeeper (undetected by the Referees) prior to the attacking team scoring a goal, the Linesman shall report what he witnessed to the Referees, the goal shall be disallowed and the appropriate penalty assessed.
 
2012-04-18 12:38:13 PM  
People are overreacting to the hit on Hossa. It wasn't any different than the hit that Kronwall laid on Voracek earlier this season. A hit that Kronwall wasn't suspended for even though he made contact with Voracek's head.
 
2012-04-18 12:38:17 PM  

Killer Cars: netweavr: If it wasn't a good, clean hockey hit, then why was there no penalty. The ref was right there and had the full-hit occur exactly where he was looking.

I don't see an orange band so isn't that a linesman, and do they have the authority to make a call if it's a (should be) major like that?


Linesmen can call majors and/or report the major to refs if it got missed.
 
2012-04-18 12:38:42 PM  

mainstreet62: Tonight, Pittsburgh will dine in HELL!


i.imgur.com
 
2012-04-18 12:38:45 PM  

Flappyhead: robsul82: Flappyhead: If anything he should be suspended for the dumbass commentary it's generated. Some of the local idiots in the media have been saying it was a good, clean hockey hit and people should stop over-reacting. Of course these are the same morons who were calling for torches and pitchforks after Mark Bell laid out Alfredsson with a similar hit a few years ago.

If you're not amused by that video currently making the rounds of the Phoenix commentators saying it was clean, I don't know what amuses you.

Sorry man, but I'm numb to hometown commentators after someone linked me a compilation of that retard who calls the Bruins games.


Jack Edwards is entertainment gold. The man deserves an Emmy.
 
2012-04-18 12:39:07 PM  
Smiths, yes a hockey thread was greened.
 
2012-04-18 12:39:18 PM  
I really think the injury was because of how his head bounced off the ice rather than the violence of the hit itself. It was a little late and he left his feet, but I didn't see it as the head as the principle point of contact. He should and will be suspended though.
 
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