Surool: This costs less than $1 to produce

Probably more like 25 bucks to manufacture. 18 Rebel LED's plus the heat sink & body/lens. Labour, shipping from China.

jfarkinB: Not for lighting-class white LEDs. As best I can tell, the leader is indium gallium nitride. No arsenic in the mix. Indium and gallium aren't exactly nutritious, but indium's generally comparable to aluminum, and gallium is probably less toxic than either.

Lifespan considerations are different for the newer high-intensity LEDs. There are problems with metal migration that don't show up at the lower power levels of old-school LEDs. Phosphors can degrade over time, and even the clear encapsulant is stressed more by high-intensity blue photon flux than low-intensity red. But really smart materials scientists have been working really hard on these problems, and they've apparently gotten us to a point where we can talk realistically about a 25-year useful lifespan.

I came to post this. Glad to see you covered it. You are 100% correct. Gallium Arsenide is mainly used in red/orange LEDs, not white. Though even this usage is rapidly disappearing, as GaAs is replaced by the much less toxic Gallium Phosphide. White LEDs all use InGaN because they are actually NearUV-Blue LEDs with a phosphor over the top that glows in the yellow-red range. The combination provides a more or less white output. This also is why cheaper white LEDs are more "cold" in color. They use less phosphor (because its not cheap) and as such more of the blueish light makes it through.

Since it was the only bulb in the competition I think its funny they are crowing about how great it is.

Here is the interview with the CEO of Philips:

http://www.ies.org/LDA/E-newsletter/2011/August/newswire/110808-PHILI P S.cfm
-------------------------------------------
The key part of the story is here:

What was the submission process like and when did you find out that you won?
ZE: We found out a few weeks ago. The process was that you enter, you submit the product and you go through a testing period. DOE really wanted to make sure the product was fully vetted so they extended the testing time. Although several other companies have announced their intentions of entering, we remain the only company to have officially submitted a product. Testing was roughly 18 months and involved a number of utility partners. One of the utility consortiums tested 100 different applications with these bulbs. It was gratifying to see our commitment to LED technology to come to fruition.
-------------------------------------------

This is more of the green con job under Obama.

sno man: Okay, so 50 bucks for the bulb that lasts 25 years, that's 2 bucks a year, and it saves 6 bucks a year in electricity. So it actually costs you -$4.00 / year (assuming it lasts the full 25)
Basic old school incandescents are what four for a buck? Last for a year, or two each so in 25 years you would have spent maybe 4 bucks on bulbs and not saved the 4 bucks a year.

/keeping in mind a small coffee is what a buck-and-a-half?
/you're saving less than three days coffees a year while you save the planet?!?

/I think you'd do more for the planet making your own coffee over that 25 years.

Therefore, no one should ever use anything but incandescents, ever. Even in places where they don't belong.

/If you're not saying it, don't imply it.

tenpoundsofcheese: WhyteRaven74: untaken_name: So, if we're lucky they'll last 6 months o

LEDs last for years and years being used every which way. It's the nature of how the function, makes them very reliable.

and the ac/dc converter circuitry that steps down from 120?

do you know why many of the CFL bases turn from white to brown?

that routinely lasts 25 years? really? really???

I remember when CD's were going to last 100 years.

tenpoundsofcheese: do you know why many of the CFL bases turn from white to brown?

Two reasons: First, the heat that they produce; especially when substandard parts are used. Second, fluorescent bulbs work by making UV light excite the white phosphor on the bulbs surface. A small amount of this UV escapes past the phosphors and can yellow the plastic over time.

Surool: Ambivalence: Surool: Call me when they are $6/bulb... until then, Phillips can go f*ck itself. This costs less than $1 to produce, and $50 retail is just greedy.

The price will go down in time. It's inevitable.

Like I said, call me then. Until then, they can jam a 4' red hot sand cast poker up their collective arses.

Sand cast? Really?
Why not investment cast or drop forged?
And why such a specific method of manufacture? Isn't the size and temperature damaging enough when rectally inserted?

Your specificity, it amuses me.

IlGreven: sno man: Okay, so 50 bucks for the bulb that lasts 25 years, that's 2 bucks a year, and it saves 6 bucks a year in electricity. So it actually costs you -$4.00 / year (assuming it lasts the full 25)
Basic old school incandescents are what four for a buck? Last for a year, or two each so in 25 years you would have spent maybe 4 bucks on bulbs and not saved the 4 bucks a year.

/keeping in mind a small coffee is what a buck-and-a-half?
/you're saving less than three days coffees a year while you save the planet?!?

/I think you'd do more for the planet making your own coffee over that 25 years.

Therefore, no one should ever use anything but incandescents, ever. Even in places where they don't belong.

/If you're not saying it, don't imply it.

Another BigLED stooge.

Thal:

LEDs have an average life of about 11 years if they are left on for 24/7. The '25 year' lifespan is probably for normal use for 8 hours a day, etc, etc. But, well before that 11 years of 'on time' the LEDs will begin to lose their brightness. After about 5 years of on time they'll have lost a noticeable percentage of their brightness and each one will fade at a different rate. With this bulb having 18 LEDs inside you may/may not have a weird looking bulb in a few years.

These bulbs are to some extent fluorescent, just not in the sense a lot of people are used to. In a normal fluorescent tube the gas inside the tube is electrically excited in to a plasma which emits ultra-violet light (mercury vapor generates UV light, thus mercury in CFL, etc.) , the phosphor coating on the inside of the light converts the UV light to visible light. With these particular bulbs the LEDs inside are actually blue and the yellow phosphor domes convert the light to a 'natural white'.

Of course these will probably have the same problems as CFL. Relative complex switching power supply electronics compared to a an incandescent lightbulb's 1 resistor. That's great if the LEDs can last 25 years of intermittent use, but how about the electronics?

Here's a good teardown link

Switching power supplies aren't new. If you have a phone charger "wall-wart" or a power brick for a laptop, those are the same tech. It's not like they don't know how to make reliable power supplies.

Heat dissipation would be the big deal engineering-wise, and quality components. Fitting that into a standard bulb socket is tricky.

Kraftwerk Orange: Rincewind53: Sgygus: Energy-saving bulb costs $50, lasts 25 years.

Lasts 25 years. And we know this how?

/we've been lied to before

It's made out of LEDs. They've been around in some form or another for 50 years now, it's not like the basic underlying concept is new tech. LEDs almost never burn out.

You've never seen a failing LED traffic light, I suppose.

[www.stenseth.org image 320x241]

LEDs are pretty great, but they do burn out.

It could be that the led's in those clusters are not burned out but their connection to the power source has been broken. Only disassembly and testing could tell for sure.

But the burning question here is, will it power my Lava Lamp?

/Dude

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: Surool: Ambivalence: Surool: Call me when they are $6/bulb... until then, Phillips can go f*ck itself. This costs less than $1 to produce, and $50 retail is just greedy.

The price will go down in time. It's inevitable.

Like I said, call me then. Until then, they can jam a 4' red hot sand cast poker up their collective arses.

Sand cast? Really?
Why not investment cast or drop forged?
And why such a specific method of manufacture? Isn't the size and temperature damaging enough when rectally inserted?

Your specificity, it amuses me.

You have never hear of something like this?

Dipped in honey and coated with sand before getting...

maxheck: Thal:

LEDs have an average life of about 11 years if they are left on for 24/7. The '25 year' lifespan is probably for normal use for 8 hours a day, etc, etc. But, well before that 11 years of 'on time' the LEDs will begin to lose their brightness. After about 5 years of on time they'll have lost a noticeable percentage of their brightness and each one will fade at a different rate. With this bulb having 18 LEDs inside you may/may not have a weird looking bulb in a few years.

These bulbs are to some extent fluorescent, just not in the sense a lot of people are used to. In a normal fluorescent tube the gas inside the tube is electrically excited in to a plasma which emits ultra-violet light (mercury vapor generates UV light, thus mercury in CFL, etc.) , the phosphor coating on the inside of the light converts the UV light to visible light. With these particular bulbs the LEDs inside are actually blue and the yellow phosphor domes convert the light to a 'natural white'.

Of course these will probably have the same problems as CFL. Relative complex switching power supply electronics compared to a an incandescent lightbulb's 1 resistor. That's great if the LEDs can last 25 years of intermittent use, but how about the electronics?

Here's a good teardown link

Switching power supplies aren't new. If you have a phone charger "wall-wart" or a power brick for a laptop, those are the same tech. It's not like they don't know how to make reliable power supplies.

Heat dissipation would be the big deal engineering-wise, and quality components. Fitting that into a standard bulb socket is tricky.

Yep, power supplies in computer never go bad. I can see why you would say that.

I love the fact that the power companies sell equipment for your house to "clean" the power supply.

Cocks!

bk3k: Which makes me wonder HOW THE HELL Philips got this particular bulb to win. For LED bulbs, that is a horrible efficiency. I would not buy this bulb. Also the price is out of this world. You can buy LED bulbs now at Walmart - IIRC in the $6-$10 range.

I read up into the contest. Your $6-10 range bulbs would be quickly disqualified:
1. The rules required a TRUE equivalency to a 60W incandescent. Most '60W replacement' LED bulbs only put out ~800 lumens,the prize winner puts out 940. 94 lumens/watt. This GE only reaches 44. Sylvania is 67.5, and Utilitech is 59.
2. They required a higher level of color rendering; 'same as incandescent'. Cheap LEDs don't meet this standard.
3. It had to be made in the USA and be made to 'green' standards.
4. It had to last 25 years. Bulbs I'm looking at are rated for 25k hours, this one for at least 30k.

On the other hand, if you live in Alaska then this bulb is not worth your time. The heat not produced by the bulbs will need to be made up for by your heating system so really it virtually not effect your energy bill at all. At least it will last longer though.

Say what? I live in Alaska, and my 22 cents a kwh electricity would like to have a talk with you. My heating system, despite the rist in cost of fuel oil, is still less than half the cost per BTU than direct electricity. IE it's substantially cheaper to let the boiler heat things, not light bulbs.

It takes 41 kwh to equal 1 gallon of fuel oil. $9 worth of electricity to provide the heat of $4 of oil.

BigBooper: Even at $50 it makes sense to use CFLs in new home construction.

Think you mean LEDs, not CFLs. Still, your mentioning 'new home construction' brings up a point and a bit of a rant. We have 3 different technologies at this point that are 'suitable' for home lighting; Incandescent, Flourescent, and LED. Each one has it's own advantages, disadvantages, and quirks. CFL is actually an attempt to make flourescent retrofit into places that Incandescent used to go into, and as such actually aren't ideal. Incandescents are naturally a point source, Flourescents are happiest as a straight tube, and LEDs are small floodlights.

My point is thus: If you're doing NEW home construction, for maximum efficiency I think that you should break from traditional thinking (edison socket) and look at the lighting method you're considering. A high quality flourescent tube can light up a room. In a smaller room, rather than a CFL in a ceiling fixture designed for bulbs, put in a circular FL tube fixture. Those tubes are rated at like 5 times the life of a CFL, and are actually cheaper, as the ballast is seperate. For LEDs, I'm thinking a strip of them might actually be better.

Edison socket fixtures are designed the way they are to facilitate frequent replacement of a light source with a low service life, that produced a lot of heat but was very heat resistant.

My Rant: It's my understanding that new home makers aren't even putting lighting boxes in the ceiling anymore; people who buy the homes either have to pay to have an electrician retrofit ceiling mounted lighting in, or deal with less efficient floor lamps and such.

Of course that's if you don't have a 4,000 square foot house for two people. I don't think there should be legislation, but more than 500 square feet per person is just wasteful.

Net zero energy scales well; and I have a 2k sqft house just for myself and I certainly wouldn't consider it 'wasteful'. I actually feel somewhat cramped. The problem is that my kitchen uses up just as much as one for a family of 4-6, my bathroom could easily handle 2-3 times as many people without getting any bigger, yet you couldn't shrink it any without costing me functionality. Etc...

Smoky Dragon Dish: It also gives off more of a natural-looking light and doesn't contain some of the same dangerous chemicals that the also environmentally friendly CFL bulbs contain.

Journalists are full of derp.

'Environmentally friendly' is a sliding scale. On average, CFL bulbs actually reduce mercury pollution, despite having a small amount in them.

jfarkinB: TyrantII: $1/yr is for 50 years is greedy?

How much have you spent in the last 20 years on incandescent lightbulbs?

What about the cost having to drive to the store, buy the new bulbs, replace them, time is money don't forget.

Why are people so bad at math, and financial planning for the future?

(a) $50 now is more expensive than $1/yr for the next 50 years (present value of money)
(b) Today's $50 bulb will likely be available for $20 in two years, and $5 in ten years
(c) 50 years =/= 25 years
(d) all of the above

Yeah got 50/25 wrong as I misread.

Still though, the questions above are valid. Even more so when you include electricity costs.

Obviously one's needs have to be factored in, but there's plenty of examples already in this thread on the cost savings for the upfront investment.

Rick-mind-if-I-call-you-Dick:

Surool: jehovahs witness protection:

MANY renters don't care about the deposit, and they stay until they're evicted.
Then they take things like that when they go.

...and the landlord can sue them if they take proper precautions to show that the bulbs were in place when the renter moved in.

And the landlord can...

Back when I moved around a lot, I worked it the other way. Whenever I moved to a new apartment I replaced most of the light bulbs with CFLs as well as the showerhead and I'd swap a light switch for a dimmer in the inevitable "garden apartment" dining room. I'd put the results in a box in the closet and when I moved out I'd swap everything back.

lordargent: Rincewind53: It's made out of LEDs. They've been around in some form or another for 50 years now, it's not like the basic underlying concept is new tech. LEDs almost never burn out.

LEDs do, circuits and wiring don't.

/haven't you ever seen a car brake light with a few LEDs that are out? /Was that car 25 years old? What about streetlights?

/plus $50??

/also "has the same color quality as standard incandescent lights ", rofl, speaking as a photog here, but reproducing the "color quality" of an incandescent bulb should not be a goal.


And what reality are you living in where LED streetlights have been around for 25 years, or LED car lights for break/headlights have been around for 25 years?

StoPPeRmobile: Yep, power supplies in computer never go bad. I can see why you would say that.

Note that he said that we know how to make reliable power supplies. It's just that the bean counters normally win.

It's entirely possible to make a switchmode power supply that will take anything between 12VDC and 600VAC and output the correct voltages. It'd just be expensive as all heck.

I love the fact that the power companies sell equipment for your house to "clean" the power supply.

Well, the problem with 'dirty' power supplies to your house is environmental. The power they put on the grid is clean. It's your neighbors, lighting storms, solar activity, and such that muck it up. Not everybody needs the same amount of protection, and said protection is best placed as close to the item needing to be protected as practical.

One problem I have with LED lights is how they handle heat dissipation. They say not to use in enclosed/recessed fixtures, but that's what most of my lights are. There's a few lamps I could install them in, but I use them so rarely that even the incandescents never burn out.

Firethorn: Think you mean LEDs, not CFLs

Your right I meant LED.

Firethorn: Net zero energy scales well; and I have a 2k sqft house just for myself

2000 square feet for one person and you feel cramped? Do you really think that's sustainable? I'm currently in a 1400 sq ft ranch with my family of 4. That house would seem huge to me if I was the only one living there. How many bedrooms can you sleep in at once?

Firethorn: StoPPeRmobile: Yep, power supplies in computer never go bad. I can see why you would say that.

Note that he said that we know how to make reliable power supplies. It's just that the bean counters normally win.

It's entirely possible to make a switchmode power supply that will take anything between 12VDC and 600VAC and output the correct voltages. It'd just be expensive as all heck.

I love the fact that the power companies sell equipment for your house to "clean" the power supply.

Well, the problem with 'dirty' power supplies to your house is environmental. The power they put on the grid is clean. It's your neighbors, lighting storms, solar activity, and such that muck it up. Not everybody needs the same amount of protection, and said protection is best placed as close to the item needing to be protected as practical.

I guess my point is "unintended consequences." Just seems these cock in it for profit are just pushing more costs on the consumer.

fark them!

Ambivalence: And republicans will biatch that they can't use the old fashioned compact florescents that they bitached would replace incandescents.

You are a dumb a$s. There's a huge market waiting for these things. I've been a part of designing the equipment used to make these (German tooling sold to Chinese manufacturers only to be purchased by the US consumer).

You proudly have displayed a level of retard that actually impresses me. Vote O and enjoy another 4 years of economic ruin.

Newer LEDs do burn out all the time, most likely due to the brightness they need to achieve. See traffic lights as already mentioned. The blue LED power light on my computer case lasted about 3 months, though I'm not complaining because it was bright enough to land airplanes by. The LEDs in my 20 year old clock radio all work fine though, as do those in my old LED games. So the idea that these new very bright LED bulbs will last 25 years seems very unlikely.

StoPPeRmobile:

maxheck: Thal:

Switching power supplies aren't new. If you have a phone charger "wall-wart" or a power brick for a laptop, those are the same tech. It's not like they don't know how to make reliable power supplies.

Heat dissipation would be the big deal engineering-wise, and quality components. Fitting that into a standard bulb socket is tricky.

Yep, power supplies in computer never go bad. I can see why you would say that.

I love the fact that the power companies sell equipment for your house to "clean" the power supply.

Cocks!

I didn't say that every Chinese factory put out quality products. I said that the problem was well understood.

BigBooper: 2000 square feet for one person and you feel cramped? Do you really think that's sustainable? I'm currently in a 1400 sq ft ranch with my family of 4. That house would seem huge to me if I was the only one living there. How many bedrooms can you sleep in at once?

Who says it's about sleeping? For all I really care I could sleep in a closet. It's about what I do when I'm awake. I'm big on computers, reading, firearms, and model rocketry. My work likes me to keep a bunch of equipment at home, which takes up the space of a couple of large pieces of luggage.

Okay, you made me think, so I dug up my appraisal - 1084 square feet of living area. Half that of what I 'remembered'. Ouch.

Still, like I was explaining, 'X per person' isn't that good of a measure, as there's a lot of static costs. My kitchen could easily feed six without any extra space, but I'm not saving much space with less cookware, dishes, or silverware. Most food takes up about the same amount of space whether it's used by one person or six. You just replace it more often in the latter case. I still need a lawnmower, washer/dryer, etc...

Basically, My standard would be more like 500 sqft + 250 sqft per adult, 200 per child. That would mean that I easily have space for another person(I do, but houses don't come much smaller here), but you're right on.

I'll admit that I only need one bath, but you couldn't cut much space from either of them without losing functionality. The only reason I use the other one occasionally is to keep problems from happening with it. Why do I have a house with 2 baths? Because it was otherwise the 'most suited' house for sale at the time I was buying. I ended up with a 3 bed 2 bath 1 car house when I wanted a 3 bed 1 bath 2 car one. I have a motorcycle and do some of my own mechanical work, not to mention I like being able to keep my yard tools sheltered. The garage is cramped.

Other than that, one of the alternate bedrooms is my gun room, another is my computer room, and both are 'library'. If I had family I'd either need a bigger place or jettison a lot of the excess stuff. Which I'm actually trying to do - I come from a family of packrats, and the amount of stuff I have that I've kept on the idea of 'I'll eventually use it' that I'm realizing that no, I'm NOT going to use it again has gotten excessive. Mostly books.

Firethorn: BigBooper: 2000 square feet for one person and you feel cramped? Do you really think that's sustainable? I'm currently in a 1400 sq ft ranch with my family of 4. That house would seem huge to me if I was the only one living there. How many bedrooms can you sleep in at once?

Who says it's about sleeping? For all I really care I could sleep in a closet. It's about what I do when I'm awake. I'm big on computers, reading, firearms, and model rocketry. My work likes me to keep a bunch of equipment at home, which takes up the space of a couple of large pieces of luggage.

Okay, you made me think, so I dug up my appraisal - 1084 square feet of living area. Half that of what I 'remembered'. Ouch.

Still, like I was explaining, 'X per person' isn't that good of a measure, as there's a lot of static costs. My kitchen could easily feed six without any extra space, but I'm not saving much space with less cookware, dishes, or silverware. Most food takes up about the same amount of space whether it's used by one person or six. You just replace it more often in the latter case. I still need a lawnmower, washer/dryer, etc...

Basically, My standard would be more like 500 sqft + 250 sqft per adult, 200 per child. That would mean that I easily have space for another person(I do, but houses don't come much smaller here), but you're right on.

I'll admit that I only need one bath, but you couldn't cut much space from either of them without losing functionality. The only reason I use the other one occasionally is to keep problems from happening with it. Why do I have a house with 2 baths? Because it was otherwise the 'most suited' house for sale at the time I was buying. I ended up with a 3 bed 2 bath 1 car house when I wanted a 3 bed 1 bath 2 car one. I have a motorcycle and do some of my own mechanical work, not to mention I like being able to keep my yard tools sheltered. The garage is cramped.

Other than that, one of the alternate bedrooms is my gun room, another ...

2 bath, 1 car garage. That sucks.

Firethorn: Think you mean LEDs, not CFLs. Still, your mentioning 'new home construction' brings up a point and a bit of a rant. We have 3 different technologies at this point that are 'suitable' for home lighting; Incandescent, Flourescent, and LED. Each one has it's own advantages, disadvantages, and quirks. CFL is actually an attempt to make flourescent retrofit into places that Incandescent used to go into, and as such actually aren't ideal. Incandescents are naturally a point source, Flourescents are happiest as a straight tube, and LEDs are small floodlights.

My point is thus: If you're doing NEW home construction, for maximum efficiency I think that you should break from traditional thinking (edison socket) and look at the lighting method you're considering. A high quality flourescent tube can light up a room. In a smaller room, rather than a CFL in a ceiling fixture designed for bulbs, put in a circular FL tube fixture. Those tubes are rated at like 5 times the life of a CFL, and are actually cheaper, as the ballast is seperate. For LEDs, I'm thinking a strip of them might actually be better.

Edison socket fixtures are designed the way they are to facilitate frequent replacement of a light source with a low service life, that produced a lot of heat but was very heat resistant.

My Rant: It's my understanding that new home makers aren't even putting lighting boxes in the ceiling anymore; people who buy the homes either have to pay to have an electrician retrofit ceiling mounted lighting in, or deal with less efficient floor lamps and such.


I have been wondering if it would be worth having a converter at your breaker panel and running low voltage DC to all your light switches and fixtures. Of course you would still need the 120v AC for your receptacles and I'm not sure how well you could run a ceiling fan. I would think that in the event of a power failure you would be able to run more lights for a longer period using a solar cell or batteries as well.

Firethorn: Basically, My standard would be more like 500 sqft + 250 sqft per adult, 200 per child. That would mean that I easily have space for another person(I do, but houses don't come much smaller here), but you're right on.

I have 960 sq.ft. of interior room house, a 1 car attached garage + a 480 sq.ft. detached shop. I call it my fully solar powered bachelor pad of awesomeness.

/my basic rule is 0.5 sq.ft of shop space for every 1 sq.ft. of house space.

BigBooper: 2000 square feet for one person and you feel cramped? Do you really think that's sustainable? I'm currently in a 1400 sq ft ranch with my family of 4. That house would seem huge to me if I was the only one living there. How many bedrooms can you sleep in at once?

I also live alone in a 2000 square foot house. I think it's perfectly "sustainable"-I can pay the monthly bills to sustain my life here. If you mean in a worldwide enviromental sense, you are also being silly-there's a lot of the planet that is completely empty (if I drive thirty miles to the east of me, there is a few thousand square miles of absolutely nothing). The water supply is infinite (with sufficient funding-oceans + desalinization plants = as much water as you need), the electricity supply is infinite (with sufficient funding), there's no practical limit on the amount of food that can be grown, etc.

Now, I am certainly not cramped; I have more space than I need. When I was shopping for a house, I initially looked at much smaller ones, and I would have been happy with one. But I got an insane deal on this particular house (I paid $150k; it previously sold for $400k), so I jumped on it. I can see a family of five (mother+father+3 kids) easily living in my 4 bedroom house comfortably.

SamFlagg: I've been in one place for 6 years, am I the only one who has only had one CFL blow out on me?

I mean I like pouring oil down storm drains and kicking puppies like any conservative, but am I seriously the only one who hasn't run into issues with CFLs?

yup, i've had one on for about 3 years straight, only had 1 go bad. Also, whats with all this " but if it breaks you die of mercury poisoning " crap. Im 48 years old and have never broken a light bulb accidentally, are there a bunch of thumb-less people out there just walking around dropping light-bulbs?

Sgygus: slayer199: Sgygus: So you're going to wait 25 years to buy LED bulbs?

My nightlights are LEDs. They didn't cost $50 per.

Let us know when you have LED's for lighting in your kitchen and bathroom.

aug3:

SamFlagg: I've been in one place for 6 years, am I the only one who has only had one CFL blow out on me?

I mean I like pouring oil down storm drains and kicking puppies like any conservative, but am I seriously the only one who hasn't run into issues with CFLs?

yup, i've had one on for about 3 years straight, only had 1 go bad. Also, whats with all this " but if it breaks you die of mercury poisoning " crap. Im 48 years old and have never broken a light bulb accidentally, are there a bunch of thumb-less people out there just walking around dropping light-bulbs?

If someone were consistent about this, they'd have been biatching about the fact that fluorescent tubes were invented in the 1930's and became the #1 source of light in the 1950's.

Of course, if they were just going with what they heard on talk radio and Fox "News" they'd be up in arms about "OMG! IT CONTAINS MERCURY!" as if it were different from the fluorescent tubes they already have in their home or place of business.

Most "big box" hardware stores have a CFL recycling barrel in the front of the store. Anyone who works there can point you to it.

So it is entertaining to see the "OMG! MERCURY!" crowd. It's always fun to see the low-information sorts self identify.

SamFlagg: I've been in one place for 6 years, am I the only one who has only had one CFL blow out on me?

I mean I like pouring oil down storm drains and kicking puppies like any conservative, but am I seriously the only one who hasn't run into issues with CFLs?

I think all the CFLs in my house are pre-2000. We decided when LED dropped under $100 we would pick one up. That was a couple years ago I believe, but non of the CFLs have died. I could just buy a couple to replace them, but I would feel silly replacing a bulb that works.

maxheck: aug3:

SamFlagg: I've been in one place for 6 years, am I the only one who has only had one CFL blow out on me?

I mean I like pouring oil down storm drains and kicking puppies like any conservative, but am I seriously the only one who hasn't run into issues with CFLs?

yup, i've had one on for about 3 years straight, only had 1 go bad. Also, whats with all this " but if it breaks you die of mercury poisoning " crap. Im 48 years old and have never broken a light bulb accidentally, are there a bunch of thumb-less people out there just walking around dropping light-bulbs?

If someone were consistent about this, they'd have been biatching about the fact that fluorescent tubes were invented in the 1930's and became the #1 source of light in the 1950's.

Of course, if they were just going with what they heard on talk radio and Fox "News" they'd be up in arms about "OMG! IT CONTAINS MERCURY!" as if it were different from the fluorescent tubes they already have in their home or place of business.

Most "big box" hardware stores have a CFL recycling barrel in the front of the store. Anyone who works there can point you to it.

So it is entertaining to see the "OMG! MERCURY!" crowd. It's always fun to see the low-information sorts self identify.

Yep, the mercury makes it from the ground to the bulb in your house without any loss, whatsoever.

Lubejewski: I have been wondering if it would be worth having a converter at your breaker panel and running low voltage DC to all your light switches and fixtures.

'Probably not' - The extra copper cost to get low voltage DC to all the lights in the house exceeds the cost savings from having a central rectifier. You don't want do be shipping low voltages any real distance.

StoPPeRmobile:

Yep, the mercury makes it from the ground to the bulb in your house without any loss, whatsoever.

I don't recall saying anything of the sort, but now that you mention it I'm willing to bet a cookie that any leakage would be less than you'd get from burning an amount of coal to power the difference between a CFL and an equivalent incandescent.

How much mercury would you like to breathe?

Firethorn:

Lubejewski: I have been wondering if it would be worth having a converter at your breaker panel and running low voltage DC to all your light switches and fixtures.

'Probably not' - The extra copper cost to get low voltage DC to all the lights in the house exceeds the cost savings from having a central rectifier. You don't want do be shipping low voltages any real distance.

Unless you're living in Gormenghast most house runs are under 50', which is effectively nothing.

Firethorn:

I should probably explain that further...

I currently rent a farmhouse that has 24v relays controlling things like floodlights, bathroom fans, stuff like that. Scads of relays. All of it is fed off of a 24v transformer in the attic that was originally only for the doorbell.

You'd be amazed at what 2-wire thermostat cable can handle at low voltages. Low voltages are, after all, low wattage. That same system could feed all sorts of lights.

I even have an LED nightlight in my workroom stairwell... A $1 rectifier bridge, a resistor from the junkbox, and a high-output red LED from Radio Shack.

maxheck: Firethorn:

Lubejewski: I have been wondering if it would be worth having a converter at your breaker panel and running low voltage DC to all your light switches and fixtures.

'Probably not' - The extra copper cost to get low voltage DC to all the lights in the house exceeds the cost savings from having a central rectifier. You don't want do be shipping low voltages any real distance.

Unless you're living in Gormenghast most house runs are under 50', which is effectively nothing.


Right, any house large enough to exceed practical DC transmission distances will have sub panels with their own rectifier anyway. I'm curious as to the gain in efficiency with centralized rectification vs converting it at each bulb. I would also like to know the actual conductor size that would be required for the LED lighting. I don't recall anything in NFPA 70 related to this specific application but I'm far from fluent in the code.

StoPPeRmobile: Yep, the mercury makes it from the ground to the bulb in your house without any loss, whatsoever.

To the contrary, companies that mine (or, more to the point, recycle) mercury surely operate under no regulations or monitoring whatsoever. They've probably got big open leaky troughs running around the countryside to distribute the stuff.

(I know I'm not supposed to feed him, but he just looks so adorable with those big puppy-troll eyes...)

Lubejewski:

maxheck: Firethorn:

Lubejewski: I have been wondering if it would be worth having a converter at your breaker panel and running low voltage DC to all your light switches and fixtures.

'Probably not' - The extra copper cost to get low voltage DC to all the lights in the house exceeds the cost savings from having a central rectifier. You don't want do be shipping low voltages any real distance.

Unless you're living in Gormenghast most house runs are under 50', which is effectively nothing.


Right, any house large enough to exceed practical DC transmission distances will have sub panels with their own rectifier anyway. I'm curious as to the gain in efficiency with centralized rectification vs converting it at each bulb. I would also like to know the actual conductor size that would be required for the LED lighting. I don't recall anything in NFPA 70 related to this specific application but I'm far from fluent in the code.

Well, you're probably miles ahead of me. I worked as an electrical grunt every summer during high-school and college to pay for my degree, but that was a very long time ago. As in decades. The only reason I know anything about electrical work anymore is because that's why pretty women keep me on the speed-dial.

I eat more chicken dinners... :)

Still, were I to guess, I'd say run a higher-voltage DC system like 24 volts and then drop it down where needed. That's how low voltage AC systems like halogen counter lights work.

Another thought would be to run 12v everywhere and look in to the stuff that gets used in RVs and campers. There is an amazing amount of stuff available there.

GAT_00

And it will shortly be banned by the GOP House.

How cute. *pats trolls head*

/// post would have been deleted if it said Democrat senate

Skyfrog: Newer LEDs do burn out all the time, most likely due to the brightness they need to achieve. See traffic lights as already mentioned. The blue LED power light on my computer case lasted about 3 months, though I'm not complaining because it was bright enough to land airplanes by. The LEDs in my 20 year old clock radio all work fine though, as do those in my old LED games. So the idea that these new very bright LED bulbs will last 25 years seems very unlikely.

Like everything else some LED's have manufacturing defects and do fail right away or early. I don't see why manufacturers wouldn't offer at least a 2-5 year guarantee on something that will last 15-20 years. You're most likely covered if they do go early, since they typically don't burn out that quick.

Or companies might not give a shiat. Like the crappy CFL's at Walmart where low price and no guarantee is king.

This thread needs more young Rita Moreno and funky Morgan Freeman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u8MY7PjSXU

Aw... Aw... awww...