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(MSNBC)   If you're an American getting in-vitro fertilization in another country you better make sure you have proof one of the donors is also American   (today.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 150
    More: Interesting, Americans, blood donors, twin daughters, NBC News, Ellie Lavi  
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14265 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2012 at 2:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-17 03:26:51 PM
avoision.com


I have been embarrassed, humiliated, horrified, ashamed
 
2012-04-17 03:27:31 PM
It's too bad the rules aren't:
- born of American citizens on American soil: citizen
- born of non-American citizens on American soil: non-citizen
- born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen
- born of American citizens on non-American soil legally considered American soil: citizen
- born of non-American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen
- born of non-American citizens on non-American soil legally considered American soil: non-citizen

Daddy's not a citizen? Neither are you.
Momma's not a citizen? Neither are you.

Daddy's working towards it, paperwork in hand not merely 'thinking about it'? fast-tracked.
Momma's working towards it, paperwork in hand not merely 'thinking about it'? fast-tracked.
 
2012-04-17 03:28:17 PM
So if someone (non US citizen) lives overseas and gets in vitro where the eggs and the sperm come from American Citizens, those children will be granted citizenship, right?
 
2012-04-17 03:28:51 PM

OscarTamerz: If tards like Madonna and Angelina Jolie can go to OOga BOOga land and...


oh lawd
 
2012-04-17 03:31:43 PM
Just have a relative here in the states "adopt" them.
 
2012-04-17 03:32:59 PM

oldfarthenry: [i149.photobucket.com image 420x297]
Dammit! Look at the size of me! I had to lube-up just to squeeze through those double-doors to get in here!
I'M OF 'MERIKUN ESSENCE, I TELL YOU!!


If you pay close attention to the big mac sign in the background, you'll notice that this isn't in the US. Sure, we exported the unhealthy swill, and there's plenty of kids here that fat, but don't pretend like this fat little bastard is our problem.

Pixels, look at them... (new window)
 
2012-04-17 03:35:50 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: It's too bad the rules aren't:
- born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen
- born of American citizens on non-American soil legally considered American soil: citizen


So if John McCain's mom had needed to be transferred to a local (non-base) hospital due to a difficult birth, he's not a citizen? Nah.

Keep thinking.
 
2012-04-17 03:38:02 PM

JackieRabbit: "I have been embarrassed, humiliated, horrified, ashamed,'' Lavi told NBC News."

That happens a lot to stupid people. I have no sympathy for this woman. Her children are Israeli, since the donors were both Israeli and the children were born there. A five minute conversation with an immigration attorney was all she needed to be brought to understand this.


Read about this over here a few weeks ago. (Can't find the original source I read though)
What's not in this article is the clerks at the American consulate profile single mothers and older women, asking them how their children were conceived (as they did to her). You could just lie, but not if you weren't expecting the question/answer.

And it's not so easy to pick up your life and change countries for 6 months.
 
2012-04-17 03:38:08 PM

srhp29: So if someone (non US citizen) lives overseas and gets in vitro where the eggs and the sperm come from American Citizens, those children will be granted citizenship, right?


Only if the baby is conceived analy.
 
2012-04-17 03:38:50 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: ExperianScaresCthulhu: It's too bad the rules aren't:
- born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen
- born of American citizens on non-American soil legally considered American soil: citizen

So if John McCain's mom had needed to be transferred to a local (non-base) hospital due to a difficult birth, he's not a citizen? Nah.

Keep thinking.


Rules are rules.
 
2012-04-17 03:40:00 PM

Lukeonia1: Israel doesn't automatically grant citizenship to babies born to foreign nationals in Israel, and the article implies that the mother doesn't hold US/Israeli dual-citizenship. If that's the case, then until the mother returns to the US or gains Israeli citizenship, those kids are literally citizens of no country.


Would this mean that they are not obligated to pay taxes for any country and can not be compelled to fight for any country?

I suspect the answers are no and no, but it would be interesting to know.
 
2012-04-17 03:40:23 PM
Technically they are Israeli. Her mistake was in telling the embassy that they were in vitro.
 
2012-04-17 03:40:49 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: It's too bad the rules aren't:
- born of American citizens on American soil: citizen
- born of non-American citizens on American soil: non-citizen
- born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen
- born of American citizens on non-American soil legally considered American soil: citizen
- born of non-American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen
- born of non-American citizens on non-American soil legally considered American soil: non-citizen


- stolen out of a womb via witchcraft and born of a cow: Beastmaster.
 
2012-04-17 03:41:23 PM
But don't they still get top secret clearance at the Pentagon?
 
2012-04-17 03:41:35 PM

what_now: Lukeonia1: What if she was an American living in Israel, acting as a surrogate mother for an Israeli couple? That seems to be the State Department's stance, the only difference being the "Israeli couple" is absent.

How often does that happen?

I mean honestly, if we're talking about people "sneaking" kids into the US to get them a where bitf cerficat whe, then how many times do people go the "US surrogate living abroad" route?


There is a demand for Indian surrogates. Apparently, they are much cheaper than American surrogates and have less ability to contest the custody agreement once the child is born.
 
2012-04-17 03:43:05 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: - born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen


So if a woman happens to be in another country and her baby decides to pop out a month or so early, that kid shouldn't get citizenship? You're a moron.
 
2012-04-17 03:43:40 PM

TheMega: Moral of the story?

NEXT TIME BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!


LMFAO

Once again - people at the office are staring at me.
 
2012-04-17 03:45:03 PM

AbbeySomeone: Technically they are Israeli. Her mistake was in telling the embassy that they were in vitro.


Yes, telling the truth is evil. That biatch gets what she deserved.
 
2012-04-17 03:45:16 PM

Sybarite: Lukeonia1: Sybarite: "You can have a child that is a child without a country,''

Doesn't seem to me there's any problem with them being Israeli citizens. Since she's unwilling to live with them in the United States for six months, maybe it's best to just stick with that.

Israel doesn't automatically grant citizenship to babies born to foreign nationals in Israel, and the article implies that the mother doesn't hold US/Israeli dual-citizenship. If that's the case, then until the mother returns to the US or gains Israeli citizenship, those kids are literally citizens of no country.


Sorry, I had read about this case on Slate a couple of weeks ago and didn't realize this story didn't explicitly state it, but yes Lavi is a dual citizen of the Israel and the United States. Link


It does boggle the mind that the woman is an American citizen, carried the twins in her body, and, presumably, squeezed them out of her dual citizen American-Israeli vagina, but somehow the children are magically not hers and therefore not American? How does that work?
 
2012-04-17 03:45:24 PM
images.static-bluray.com

Also make sure the donor isn't black.

/You so dumb, you think calculus is a Goddamn Roman emperor!
 
2012-04-17 03:46:29 PM
Anyone else take issue with the fact that she's an unmarried woman who still decided to go ahead and get IVF, just so she could have some kids? What a selfish little twat. The best chance kids have at growing up to be well-adjusted adults is to have a two-parent household, yet she goes and Intentionally makes sure her kids will grow up without a father. That is so unbelievably selfish. Kids aren't a freaking fashion accessory.

How in the hades 1) it's legal and 2) she was able to convince a doctor to go ahead and suspend all ethical judgment and intentionally impregnate an unmarried woman is beyond me.
 
2012-04-17 03:47:58 PM

CheatCommando: timujin: It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

The technicality is that both the sperm and the egg were donated. She was "just the vessel" in their reading of the law.


No, she is the custodial parent. The children have a custodial parent who is an American citizen. In fact, they were born to a custodial parent who is an American citizen. That ought to carry some weight.
 
2012-04-17 03:48:13 PM

EbolaNYC: Why should I give a crap about this?

You're living in ISREAL lady. WTF? Move back if you want it so bad.


EXACTLY. She has a legitimate avenue towards achieving US citizenship for her precious snowflakes, LIVE IN THE US!

If it was so goddamn important...
 
2012-04-17 03:48:26 PM
Sadly if you are born in the US you automatically have citizenship bestowed upon you and all the indentured servitude it represents such as taxation until death.
 
2012-04-17 03:48:34 PM

Lunaville: what_now: Lukeonia1: What if she was an American living in Israel, acting as a surrogate mother for an Israeli couple? That seems to be the State Department's stance, the only difference being the "Israeli couple" is absent.

How often does that happen?

I mean honestly, if we're talking about people "sneaking" kids into the US to get them a where bitf cerficat whe, then how many times do people go the "US surrogate living abroad" route?

There is a demand for Indian surrogates. Apparently, they are much cheaper than American surrogates and have less ability to contest the custody agreement once the child is born.


So in your scenario, a US woman hires an Indian woman to carry her baby to term, but has the lady deliver the baby in INDIA instead of in the US?

That doesn't seem likely.
 
2012-04-17 03:50:02 PM

B.C.: Anyone else take issue with the fact that she's an unmarried woman who still decided to go ahead and get IVF, just so she could have some kids? What a selfish little twat. The best chance kids have at growing up to be well-adjusted adults is to have a two-parent household, yet she goes and Intentionally makes sure her kids will grow up without a father. That is so unbelievably selfish. Kids aren't a freaking fashion accessory.

How in the hades 1) it's legal and 2) she was able to convince a doctor to go ahead and suspend all ethical judgment and intentionally impregnate an unmarried woman is beyond me.


I know. I bet that whore has even showed her ankles in church.
 
2012-04-17 03:52:12 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: - born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen


What? This would make the children of a lot of the members of the Armed forces non-citizens.
 
2012-04-17 03:52:51 PM
B.C.
Anyone else take issue with the fact that she's an unmarried woman who still decided to go ahead and get IVF, just so she could have some kids? What a selfish little twat. The best chance kids have at growing up to be well-adjusted adults is to have a two-parent household, yet she goes and Intentionally makes sure her kids will grow up without a father. That is so unbelievably selfish. Kids aren't a freaking fashion accessory.

How in the hades 1) it's legal and 2) she was able to convince a doctor to go ahead and suspend all ethical judgment and intentionally impregnate an unmarried woman is beyond me.


4/10 would have been higher had you mentioned Octomom
 
2012-04-17 03:53:05 PM

Bontesla: TheMega: Moral of the story?

NEXT TIME BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!

LMFAO

Once again - people at the office are staring at me.


Maybe you should start wearing pants.
 
2012-04-17 03:55:43 PM

netweavr: eggrolls: CheatCommando: timujin: It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

The technicality is that both the sperm and the egg were donated. She was "just the vessel" in their reading of the law.

And if the egg and sperm had been put together in another 'vessel', allowed to fully gestate and then given to her to raise (in other words, adoption), this conversation would not be taking place. There is NO reason for this. This woman and her child are being denied their citizenship illegally. I hope she sues the ever loving shiat out of the state dept, and is awarded not only a passport, but the right to punch the embassy official in the groin.

On live TV.

There's plenty of reason for this. It sounds like they gave her a perfectly viable option to obtain US citizenship for the kids.


How do we know that? How do we know that this woman can quit her job and vacation in the U.S. for six months?
What is the likelihood that she would find a comparable job here? Perhaps, she does plan to return to the USA? Is it possible that her current job figures prominently in her long-term career plans? If she abandons it, what will the long term negative consequences on her career arc be?

Is anyone here going to step up and replace her lost income? What would the comments here look like, if she returned to the USA, and applied for welfare and food stamps to make ends meet until she finds another job?
 
2012-04-17 03:58:42 PM

OscarTamerz: Children adopted by U.S. citizens or born to foreign citizens in the U.S. are granted status as Americans.

So why doesn't she just adopt her own kids. It should be the fastest, easiest adoption on record. If tards like Madonna and Angelina Jolie can go to OOga BOOga land and pick up some kid with a bone through its nose riding a zebra like it's a damn Happy Meal at a Mickey D drive through what prevents her from doing the same thing?


Please read the following question with the disclaimer that I don't really know what I'm talking about and am ready to be corrected immediately: Isn't it true that the kid is born Jewish if it is born of the Jewish mother's womb? That could be a reason for not adopting.
-Again, please; I'm not anti Semitic, just ignorant.
 
2012-04-17 03:59:00 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: ExperianScaresCthulhu: It's too bad the rules aren't:
- born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen
- born of American citizens on non-American soil legally considered American soil: citizen

So if John McCain's mom had needed to be transferred to a local (non-base) hospital due to a difficult birth, he's not a citizen?


Correct.
 
2012-04-17 03:59:00 PM

SmellsLikePoo: EXACTLY. She has a legitimate avenue towards achieving US citizenship for her precious snowflakes, LIVE IN THE US!


She prefers to live in Israel with her people but want the kids to have US citizenship for when they are old enough to make money.
 
2012-04-17 03:59:23 PM

what_now: B.C.: Anyone else take issue with the fact that she's an unmarried woman who still decided to go ahead and get IVF, just so she could have some kids? What a selfish little twat. The best chance kids have at growing up to be well-adjusted adults is to have a two-parent household, yet she goes and Intentionally makes sure her kids will grow up without a father. That is so unbelievably selfish. Kids aren't a freaking fashion accessory.

How in the hades 1) it's legal and 2) she was able to convince a doctor to go ahead and suspend all ethical judgment and intentionally impregnate an unmarried woman is beyond me.

I know. I bet that whore has even showed her ankles in church.


She's a heathen. She doesn't go to church and doesn't worship Jesus. She's Jewish.
 
2012-04-17 03:59:40 PM

tjassen: JackieRabbit: "I have been embarrassed, humiliated, horrified, ashamed,'' Lavi told NBC News."

That happens a lot to stupid people. I have no sympathy for this woman. Her children are Israeli, since the donors were both Israeli and the children were born there. A five minute conversation with an immigration attorney was all she needed to be brought to understand this.

Read about this over here a few weeks ago. (Can't find the original source I read though)
What's not in this article is the clerks at the American consulate profile single mothers and older women, asking them how their children were conceived (as they did to her). You could just lie, but not if you weren't expecting the question/answer.

And it's not so easy to pick up your life and change countries for 6 months.


So, this is ICE screening for "whores"?
It really wouldn't surprise me.
 
2012-04-17 04:00:47 PM

JackieRabbit: ExperianScaresCthulhu: - born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen

What? This would make the children of a lot of the members of the Armed forces non-citizens.


Yes.
 
2012-04-17 04:02:10 PM

JDJoeE: She wants US citizenship for the kids but won't live in the US?


When I realized this, I no longer cared. She has an avenue of changing this and won't. Maybe if she was deported from the US with her kids I would be outraged, but not when she is choosing not to be here. I am sure visiting family in the US won't really be that much of a hassle.
 
2012-04-17 04:02:15 PM

B.C.: Anyone else take issue with the fact that she's an unmarried woman who still decided to go ahead and get IVF, just so she could have some kids? What a selfish little twat. The best chance kids have at growing up to be well-adjusted adults is to have a two-parent household, yet she goes and Intentionally makes sure her kids will grow up without a father. That is so unbelievably selfish. Kids aren't a freaking fashion accessory.

How in the hades 1) it's legal and 2) she was able to convince a doctor to go ahead and suspend all ethical judgment and intentionally impregnate an unmarried woman is beyond me.


Dad! Where have you been? I've miss ... okay no haven't.
Apparently, per the thread, there are some nice ICE clerks that agree with you.
Burn in your hell.
 
2012-04-17 04:03:49 PM

what_now: Lunaville: what_now: Lukeonia1: What if she was an American living in Israel, acting as a surrogate mother for an Israeli couple? That seems to be the State Department's stance, the only difference being the "Israeli couple" is absent.

How often does that happen?

I mean honestly, if we're talking about people "sneaking" kids into the US to get them a where bitf cerficat whe, then how many times do people go the "US surrogate living abroad" route?

There is a demand for Indian surrogates. Apparently, they are much cheaper than American surrogates and have less ability to contest the custody agreement once the child is born.

So in your scenario, a US woman hires an Indian woman to carry her baby to term, but has the lady deliver the baby in INDIA instead of in the US?

That doesn't seem likely.


Give me a minute. I'll see if I can find a link to a relevant article.
 
2012-04-17 04:04:49 PM

MBooda: I'm an American and will be more than happy to provide in-vitro fertilization.

/got my own baster


You could just skip that step and just go straight to writing checks for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to random women you have never met before. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
 
2012-04-17 04:05:18 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Bontesla: TheMega: Moral of the story?

NEXT TIME BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!

LMFAO

Once again - people at the office are staring at me.

Maybe you should start wearing pants.


Then I would make less money.
 
2012-04-17 04:10:11 PM

Lunaville: what_now: Lunaville: what_now: Lukeonia1: What if she was an American living in Israel, acting as a surrogate mother for an Israeli couple? That seems to be the State Department's stance, the only difference being the "Israeli couple" is absent.

How often does that happen?

I mean honestly, if we're talking about people "sneaking" kids into the US to get them a where bitf cerficat whe, then how many times do people go the "US surrogate living abroad" route?

There is a demand for Indian surrogates. Apparently, they are much cheaper than American surrogates and have less ability to contest the custody agreement once the child is born.

So in your scenario, a US woman hires an Indian woman to carry her baby to term, but has the lady deliver the baby in INDIA instead of in the US?

That doesn't seem likely.

Give me a minute. I'll see if I can find a link to a relevant article.


Link (new window)

You can also google "Indian Surrogacy".
 
2012-04-17 04:12:17 PM
Maybe it would help if they set foot on U.S. soil at some point.

/no, the embassy doesn't count.
 
2012-04-17 04:20:10 PM
Being a female, male, or American takes the correct DNA.
 
2012-04-17 04:24:26 PM
What are they afraid of, terrorist DNA?.
 
2012-04-17 04:24:44 PM

JackieRabbit: ExperianScaresCthulhu: - born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen

What? This would make the children of a lot of the members of the Armed forces non-citizens.


So?
 
2012-04-17 04:27:14 PM

Bontesla: StoPPeRmobile: Bontesla: TheMega: Moral of the story?

NEXT TIME BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!

LMFAO

Once again - people at the office are staring at me.

Maybe you should start wearing pants.

Then I would make less money.


Is that possible?
 
2012-04-17 04:29:28 PM

JackieRabbit: ExperianScaresCthulhu: - born of American citizens on non-American soil: non-citizen

What? This would make the children of a lot of the members of the Armed forces non-citizens.


It has in the past. If the child was born in a military hospital everything is fine. If the child was born at a local hospital you have more paperwork to do to get citizenship approved, especially if one of the parents is a local. If you dont do the paperwork just after birth and forget about it, it can bite the kid in the ass later down the road. I grew up in a military town and served in the Army myself. Ive seen it first hand.
 
2012-04-17 04:34:08 PM

B.C.: The best chance kids have at growing up to be well-adjusted adults is to have a two-parent household


Citation needed.
 
2012-04-17 04:34:14 PM
DRTT, but you'd better also make sure that neither of you come from a state with a "personhood amendment" for zygotes or you're most likely liable for a murder charge.

Hoorah for well-thought-through legislation!
 
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