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(MSNBC)   If you're an American getting in-vitro fertilization in another country you better make sure you have proof one of the donors is also American   (today.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 150
    More: Interesting, Americans, blood donors, twin daughters, NBC News, Ellie Lavi  
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14265 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2012 at 2:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-17 11:40:00 AM
WHERE
TURKEY BASTER
WHERE?
\o/
l
/\
 
2012-04-17 11:52:36 AM
Aarontology:
WHERE
TURKEY BASTER
WHE?
\o/
l
/\


Fixed.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-04-17 11:58:05 AM
When Lavi went to the U.S. Embassy in Israel to register her children, she said she was asked over a loudspeaker in a crowded room by an embassy official how she conceived the children.

This could be the start of a great comedy skit.
 
2012-04-17 12:00:53 PM
i149.photobucket.com
Dammit! Look at the size of me! I had to lube-up just to squeeze through those double-doors to get in here!
I'M OF 'MERIKUN ESSENCE, I TELL YOU!!
 
2012-04-17 12:09:45 PM
Children adopted by U.S. citizens or born to foreign citizens in the U.S. are granted status as Americans. However, as Lavi was informed, children born to Americans overseas through in-vitro fertilization are denied American citizenship unless a donor can be proved to be a U.S. citizen. The laws were created to prevent people from fraudulently attaining status as Americans.

there is something...terribly wrong about that.

"I have no idea who the father is. I got high on a kibbutz and banged a squadron of Israeli soldiers." "Oh, well here's your tiny American flag, kids".

"I spend thousands of dollars and many months on an extremely difficult medical procedure to bring these children to term". "No passport for you".

what???
 
2012-04-17 12:10:44 PM
"You can have a child that is a child without a country,''

Doesn't seem to me there's any problem with them being Israeli citizens. Since she's unwilling to live with them in the United States for six months, maybe it's best to just stick with that.
 
2012-04-17 12:18:56 PM
The laws were created to prevent people from fraudulently attaining status as Americans.

Ok...so I can illegally cross the border and have my kid at a hospital in El Paso, TX, but instead, I think I'll insert my egg and my husband's sperm into a random US lady living abroad and have her carry it, and then we'll take the baby back after she claims citizenship for it.

That's much more likely.
 
2012-04-17 12:20:48 PM

Sybarite: Doesn't seem to me there's any problem with them being Israeli citizens. Since she's unwilling to live with them in the United States for six months, maybe it's best to just stick with that.


What if she was living in Germany b/c she and/or her husband was stationed there?

What if she was living in Japan because she and/or her husband were working there?

She's a US Citizen living abroad. She's paying US income taxes. Her kids are citizens.
 
2012-04-17 12:22:24 PM
"Hey, I picked up this kid in Romania. There are a bunch of them just warehoused in orphanages. I've named him Steve."

"Cool. Here's his itty bitty passport".
 
2012-04-17 12:39:24 PM
Wow-this ought to keep out at least a hundred "illegals" every year- good work, guys. You have probably addressed the hardest 0.^A% of the problem, but I guess you have got to start somewhere.


//Surely there must be something more important for these folks to worry about.
 
2012-04-17 12:45:56 PM
Children adopted by U.S. citizens or born to foreign citizens in the U.S. are granted status as Americans. However, as Lavi was informed, children born to Americans overseas through in-vitro fertilization are denied American citizenship unless a donor can be proved to be a U.S. citizen. The laws were created to prevent people from fraudulently attaining status as Americans.

So just adopt your own child. Problem solved.
 
2012-04-17 12:52:09 PM
This sperm smells French. GTFO of my office.
 
2012-04-17 01:09:22 PM
Now, the U.S. State Department is refusing to grant citizenship to her children because she is unable to prove that any of the donors are American citizens.

What the fark does it matter? One American citizen parent means American citizenship. It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.
 
2012-04-17 01:28:00 PM

timujin: Now, the U.S. State Department is refusing to grant citizenship to her children because she is unable to prove that any of the donors are American citizens.

What the fark does it matter? One American citizen parent means American citizenship. It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.


Actually, not necessarily. If you have only one parent who is an American citizen then that parent has to prove that they've lived 5 years in the United States, and 2 of those years have to be after you were 14 years of age. Otherwise your kid isn't considered an American citizen.

This is basically so for example my Aussie friend whose mom was American but has never visited the country can't later get citizenship for his kids in turn. It would be a rather strange thing to claim after all.

What I can't believe though is that this woman didn't know about this in the first place, as it's a pretty commonly known thing in expat circles that if you do IVF you should go give birth in the USA (thus negating the problem). She must've gotten awful advice.

/the stuff you learn as an expat
 
2012-04-17 01:29:00 PM

timujin: Now, the U.S. State Department is refusing to grant citizenship to her children because she is unable to prove that any of the donors are American citizens.

What the fark does it matter? One American citizen parent means American citizenship. It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.


It wasn't her egg, either.
 
2012-04-17 01:35:52 PM

Andromeda: timujin: Now, the U.S. State Department is refusing to grant citizenship to her children because she is unable to prove that any of the donors are American citizens.

What the fark does it matter? One American citizen parent means American citizenship. It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

Actually, not necessarily. If you have only one parent who is an American citizen then that parent has to prove that they've lived 5 years in the United States, and 2 of those years have to be after you were 14 years of age. Otherwise your kid isn't considered an American citizen.

This is basically so for example my Aussie friend whose mom was American but has never visited the country can't later get citizenship for his kids in turn. It would be a rather strange thing to claim after all.

What I can't believe though is that this woman didn't know about this in the first place, as it's a pretty commonly known thing in expat circles that if you do IVF you should go give birth in the USA (thus negating the problem). She must've gotten awful advice.

/the stuff you learn as an expat


huh, the more you know and all that... I wonder how that applies to her.

jaylectricity: timujin: Now, the U.S. State Department is refusing to grant citizenship to her children because she is unable to prove that any of the donors are American citizens.

What the fark does it matter? One American citizen parent means American citizenship. It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

It wasn't her egg, either.


Missed that: used a donor sperm and egg. Still, if you use a donor sperm and egg and give birth in the U.S., no problem.

But, yeah, I suppose this isn't as cut-and-dry as I assumed it should be.
 
2012-04-17 01:37:47 PM

Sybarite: "You can have a child that is a child without a country,''

Doesn't seem to me there's any problem with them being Israeli citizens. Since she's unwilling to live with them in the United States for six months, maybe it's best to just stick with that.


Israel doesn't automatically grant citizenship to babies born to foreign nationals in Israel, and the article implies that the mother doesn't hold US/Israeli dual-citizenship. If that's the case, then until the mother returns to the US or gains Israeli citizenship, those kids are literally citizens of no country.


what_now: She's a US Citizen living abroad. She's paying US income taxes. Her kids are citizens.


What if she was an American living in Israel, acting as a surrogate mother for an Israeli couple? That seems to be the State Department's stance, the only difference being the "Israeli couple" is absent.


jaylectricity: So just adopt your own child. Problem solved.


The Hague Convention on Such Matters requires international adoptions to be finalized in the child's home country first. Israel doesn't allow foreign nationals to adopt Israeli children, and probably lacks the jurisdiction to grant the adoption of "non-Israeli" children such as these anyway.
 
2012-04-17 01:58:58 PM

Lukeonia1: What if she was an American living in Israel, acting as a surrogate mother for an Israeli couple? That seems to be the State Department's stance, the only difference being the "Israeli couple" is absent.


How often does that happen?

I mean honestly, if we're talking about people "sneaking" kids into the US to get them a where bitf cerficat whe, then how many times do people go the "US surrogate living abroad" route?
 
2012-04-17 02:03:44 PM

Lukeonia1: Sybarite: "You can have a child that is a child without a country,''

Doesn't seem to me there's any problem with them being Israeli citizens. Since she's unwilling to live with them in the United States for six months, maybe it's best to just stick with that.

Israel doesn't automatically grant citizenship to babies born to foreign nationals in Israel, and the article implies that the mother doesn't hold US/Israeli dual-citizenship. If that's the case, then until the mother returns to the US or gains Israeli citizenship, those kids are literally citizens of no country.



Sorry, I had read about this case on Slate a couple of weeks ago and didn't realize this story didn't explicitly state it, but yes Lavi is a dual citizen of the Israel and the United States. Link
 
2012-04-17 02:32:50 PM
So by their logic an American man and woman could donate sperm/eggs to anyone and they'd automatically be eligible for American citizenship at birth? If so, that's potentially a *much* worse situation that could be exploited for a number of very very bad reasons.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-04-17 02:40:57 PM
me texan

It's not logic, it's law. The law could say a baby born abroad is eligible for US citizenship if either genetic parent is American AND it came out of the genetic mother's vagina. Or the law could be generous and allow for C-sections. Or the law could require natural fertilization, so virgin births are ineligible. This aspect of law is up to Congress.
 
2012-04-17 02:48:58 PM
Why should I give a crap about this?

You're living in ISREAL lady. WTF? Move back if you want it so bad.
 
2012-04-17 02:49:26 PM
Moral of the story?

NEXT TIME BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!
 
2012-04-17 02:50:28 PM
And Obama and his supporters make such a fuss when he is asked to produce his real birth certificate.....hypocrites
 
2012-04-17 02:51:27 PM
Wait hold on doesn't it matter since the lady is an American citizen?
 
2012-04-17 02:52:01 PM

timujin: It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.


The technicality is that both the sperm and the egg were donated. She was "just the vessel" in their reading of the law.
 
2012-04-17 02:55:16 PM
I'm an American and will be more than happy to provide in-vitro fertilization.

/got my own baster
 
2012-04-17 02:55:25 PM
Just give birth in the embassy. Duh.
 
2012-04-17 02:56:02 PM
What it comes down to is if you squat and drop on American Soil, the thing that bounces is an American, no questions asked.

Otherwise it is complicated.
 
2012-04-17 02:57:41 PM

CheatCommando: timujin: It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

The technicality is that both the sperm and the egg were donated. She was "just the vessel" in their reading of the law.


She still pushed the baby out her body. It really doesn't matter what the nationalities are of the anonymous donors who have nothing to do with child. Still, it's pretty retarded that she won't spend 6 months in the US so her kids can have citizenship. If she never expect to return to the US, then why should her kids have citizenship here?
 
2012-04-17 02:57:46 PM
Lavi does have one option to get citizenship for her daughters - by living in America for six months and completing the paperwork there. But...

This is where I stopped reading.
 
2012-04-17 02:57:48 PM
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that this troll doll was unable to find anyone to knock her up.

Honestly. I mean, she's the total package right?

Young? Check.
Troll Doll Looks? Check.
Jewish? Check. // (I only point this out as some might see that as a plus)

Has to use a turkey baster because no one wants to fark her? Check.

www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com

// Link is hot. Unlike the troll doll it contains.
 
2012-04-17 02:58:10 PM
We're outsourcing procreation now too?
 
2012-04-17 03:01:47 PM

CheatCommando: timujin: It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

The technicality is that both the sperm and the egg were donated. She was "just the vessel" in their reading of the law.


And if the egg and sperm had been put together in another 'vessel', allowed to fully gestate and then given to her to raise (in other words, adoption), this conversation would not be taking place. There is NO reason for this. This woman and her child are being denied their citizenship illegally. I hope she sues the ever loving shiat out of the state dept, and is awarded not only a passport, but the right to punch the embassy official in the groin.

On live TV.
 
2012-04-17 03:02:53 PM

ZAZ: me texan

It's not logic, it's law. The law could say a baby born abroad is eligible for US citizenship if either genetic parent is American AND it came out of the genetic mother's vagina. Or the law could be generous and allow for C-sections. Or the law could require natural fertilization, so virgin births are ineligible. This aspect of law is up to Congress.


Like Jesus is gonna be Israeli.
 
2012-04-17 03:03:06 PM

CheatCommando: timujin: It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

The technicality is that both the sperm and the egg were donated. She was "just the vessel" in their reading of the law.


Sweet, can't wait to post on evangelical sites Mary just a vessel and Jesus could never be an American.
 
2012-04-17 03:03:58 PM

eggrolls: CheatCommando: timujin: It shouldn't matter where the sperm came from.

The technicality is that both the sperm and the egg were donated. She was "just the vessel" in their reading of the law.

And if the egg and sperm had been put together in another 'vessel', allowed to fully gestate and then given to her to raise (in other words, adoption), this conversation would not be taking place. There is NO reason for this. This woman and her child are being denied their citizenship illegally. I hope she sues the ever loving shiat out of the state dept, and is awarded not only a passport, but the right to punch the embassy official in the groin.

On live TV.


There's plenty of reason for this. It sounds like they gave her a perfectly viable option to obtain US citizenship for the kids.
 
2012-04-17 03:07:03 PM

ZAZ: When Lavi went to the U.S. Embassy in Israel to register her children, she said she was asked over a loudspeaker in a crowded room by an embassy official how she conceived the children.

This could be the start of a great comedy skit.


I laughed.
 
2012-04-17 03:07:21 PM
I feel like I was reading somewhere that the US is dominating the sperm market. Sounds like she made a couple of strategic errors.
 
2012-04-17 03:10:03 PM
So, can I sell my "American" sperm overseas so new invitro babies are born American?
 
2012-04-17 03:11:31 PM
Actually, knowing the hassles involved in being a US citizen living abroad I would advise the lady to not worry about it and they can apply through normal immigration if/when they decide they might actually want to live in the US. Otherwise, they will have to look forward to a lifetime of paying tax to the US, reporting all assets, etc. even if they never live in the US. US citizenship is great, but only if you actually plan to live in the US for a significant period of your life, otherwise it is the biggest citizenship/tax burdens of any country.
 
2012-04-17 03:11:51 PM
I'll say first I think she's right, if adopted kids can get citizenship easily there's no reason this should be any different... they were 'adopted' at the cellular level.

However, I also wish more people would stop screwing around with in-vitro and adopt more kids who are already out there. I realize it's hard to get approved, but my dad was adopted and when I asked him if he ever wanted to find his real parents, he said 'they didn't want me, why should I want them?' It was pretty much the most cynical thing I've ever heard from him since he's usually the 'kind-hearted generous' type.

What I'm saying is he really appreciated his parents as I imagine most adoptees do also.
 
2012-04-17 03:12:43 PM
She wants US citizenship for the kids but won't live in the US?
/tinfoil hat: mossad ploy for some sleeper agents
 
2012-04-17 03:16:19 PM
Children adopted by U.S. citizens or born to foreign citizens in the U.S. are granted status as Americans.

So why doesn't she just adopt her own kids. It should be the fastest, easiest adoption on record. If tards like Madonna and Angelina Jolie can go to OOga BOOga land and pick up some kid with a bone through its nose riding a zebra like it's a damn Happy Meal at a Mickey D drive through what prevents her from doing the same thing?
 
2012-04-17 03:17:41 PM
Why tell anyone at all?
 
2012-04-17 03:18:32 PM
You're in Israel. Part them out and start over.
 
2012-04-17 03:20:13 PM
"I have been embarrassed, humiliated, horrified, ashamed,'' Lavi told NBC News."

That happens a lot to stupid people. I have no sympathy for this woman. Her children are Israeli, since the donors were both Israeli and the children were born there. A five minute conversation with an immigration attorney was all she needed to be brought to understand this.
 
2012-04-17 03:22:14 PM

OscarTamerz: go to OOga BOOga land and pick up some kid with a bone through its nose riding a zebra like it's a damn Happy Meal at a Mickey D drive through


o_O
 
2012-04-17 03:25:21 PM
"I have been embarrassed, humiliated, horrified, ashamed,'' Lavi told NBC News."

Wait until you try the Politics tab.
 
2012-04-17 03:26:22 PM

eggrolls: There is NO reason for this.


I agree. I was just stating the government's position and showing how it countered the original argument offered. On the other hand, I do have sympathy for the position that the government has offered her the out of just bringing the kids here for six months so they can qualify, and personally I believe that dual citizenship is bullshiat.
 
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