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(CBS News)   Obama moves to limit oil speculators to lower gas prices. Republican outraged he does what they say he is against   (cbsnews.com) divider line 242
    More: Hero, President Obama, market manipulation, Republican, natural gas prices, gas prices, Commodity Futures Trading Commission  
•       •       •

4278 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Apr 2012 at 12:30 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-17 01:32:18 PM  
price controls, brilliant.

why didn't we think of this sooner?
 
2012-04-17 01:36:03 PM  

colon_pow: price controls, brilliant.

why didn't we think of this sooner?


Yea except for no price controls were proposed.

Jesus Christ, Drew, can you pay for at least some competent trolls?
 
2012-04-17 01:36:13 PM  

Mikey1969: All it does is route gas straight from Canada to international ports in Texas. Actually, it may increase gas prices in the Midwest, because a traditional surplus of gasoline in that area that keeps gas prices low, would be sent straight down that pipeline, removing the extra available oil and keeping prices high.


The Cushing-Gulf Coast leg of the Keystone XL pipeline was already approved. They split the original proposal into the lower leg and the upper legs...it's the latter that's awaiting approval (though I don't think they've submitted the new route yet).
 
2012-04-17 01:37:48 PM  
Republican outraged he does what they say he is against makes moves to alleviate ANY situation outside of lowering taxes for the top 1%.

FTFsubby
 
2012-04-17 01:38:06 PM  

Almet: coeyagi: Jesus H. Christ, is there ONE GOD DAMN REPUBLICAN left with an ounce of dignity and decency? fark these clowns in the ass with a barbed dildo until they bleed to death.

fap?


Stop it. The woman in the next cubicle thinks I have a respiratory disease because I keep snorting when I read this stuff.
 
2012-04-17 01:38:57 PM  

YoungSwedishBlonde: colon_pow: price controls, brilliant.

why didn't we think of this sooner?

Yea except for no price controls were proposed.

Jesus Christ, Drew, can you pay for at least some competent trolls?


It costs too much to crane them from their bed to their pc with fuel prices so high.

He cant use the hybrid energy or nat gas ones because they arent approved for mom's basement yet.
 
2012-04-17 01:39:23 PM  

Mikey1969: House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, wants to seek votes on more domestic oil and natural gas exploration, a freeze on regulations on refineries and approval of construction of the Keystone XL pipeline from Canada to Texas, a project Obama has blocked.

This does N-O-T-H-I-N-G for us, and is definitely not a part of any solution regarding gas prices. All it does is route gas straight from Canada to international ports in Texas. Actually, it may increase gas prices in the Midwest, because a traditional surplus of gasoline in that area that keeps gas prices low, would be sent straight down that pipeline, removing the extra available oil and keeping prices high. From what I hear, even the jobs created aren't significantly large...


But a bunch of oil executives in Calgary will get richer as a result of this...

Why won't you think of the poor oil executives?
 
2012-04-17 01:39:33 PM  

unyon: MrBallou: FTFA: Republicans have been hammering Obama on his energy policies, recognizing manipulating the political cost of high gas prices on the president

but the King of Trolls has got it under control.

It's about time that people like the Koch brothers figured that out. They can do way more political damage to Obama through their energy price speculation than they can donating to Republican causes.

cman: This may not be the best of ideas. Oil is traded on the US market for one simple reason: fewer regulations.

I agree. I recall a fairly neutral study recently that ruled out speculation as the major driver in prices, so this regulatory action may be almost entirely political, which is a pretty shiatty reason for a regulation. But I'll continue to think that prices are too low, not too high, until the actual cost of consumption is included in the price of the product. I'm sick and tired of subsidizing other people's behaviour.

Cythraul: I'm almost to the point of not caring how they lower gas prices, just that the somehow manage to do it. They could sacrifice newborns to some obscure ancient deity, and if it lowered prices, I'd visit the White House to kiss the President's feet.

Gas is still too cheap. I don't see evidence of it influencing people's transportation decisions yet. But I'm a big fan of a taxation shift between gas and income taxes. Adjust gas taxes up and income taxes down to achieve the same revenue level. No new regulation required, since the mechanism for collecting each is already in place, it's just adjusting the dials.

Tax more of what you want less of - hydrocarbon consumption - And tax less of what you want more of- income. If you want to increase your income and lower your tax burden, consume less energy. It puts the incentives in the right place.


This is actually pretty smart. When are you running for office?
 
2012-04-17 01:41:00 PM  
This pretty much seals it

Obama is totally the biggest waste of my money to pay him to be in any office

Except dog catcher, and that he would dark up as well
 
2012-04-17 01:41:36 PM  
Also gas needs to be about $10 a gallon if we're ever going to have any hope of moving beyond petroleum.

Sorry if that makes some of you mad.
 
2012-04-17 01:42:17 PM  
FTA:

They would not go as far as to say that market manipulation is responsible for rising gas prices, but the officials said they wanted to curtail the ability of speculators to take unlawful advantage of oil price volatility.They didn't say that market manipulation is responsible for rising gas prices, because Obama, live every reasonable and honest economist, knows that speculation, absent physical hoarding, has little or no impact on the price of oil/gas. Even Paul Krugman, who wouldn't miss a chance to support any left wing talking point unless it went completely against economic reality doesn't think speculation on the futures marekt is to blame for oil prices. Link (new window), Link (new window)

That said, this proposal isn't bad -

Obama's plan this time calls on Congress to:

-- Increase six-fold the surveillance and enforcement staff of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to better deter oil market manipulation.

-- Increase spending on technology to provide better oversight and surveillance of energy markets.

-- Increase civil and criminal penalties against firms that engage in market manipulation from $1 million to $10 million.

-- Give the Commodity Futures Trading Commission authority to increase the amount of money that a trader must put up to back a trading position. The administration officials said such authority could help limit disruptions in energy markets.


Nothing really objectionable there. Obama is spending $52m to improve the regulatory structure, pandering to idiots who think that absent speculation gas would be $2 per gallon, while not doing anything draconian that would cause damage to market liquidity or the economy.
 
2012-04-17 01:42:29 PM  

winterwhile: Except dog catcher, and that he would dark up as well


Hmm...
 
2012-04-17 01:42:34 PM  

cman: This may not be the best of ideas.

Oil is traded on the US market for one simple reason: fewer regulations.



So what your saying is, see, if the US matches the regulations of the rest of the world, oil speculators will magically want to trade on the European markets because they had higher regulations first and they trade horses in mid stream by the horns.
 
2012-04-17 01:43:02 PM  

winterwhile: Except dog catcher, and that he would dark up as well


I love it when the trolls get freudian.
 
2012-04-17 01:43:05 PM  

Flab: beta_plus: If only there was a pipeline from Canada

Apart form those, you mean?

[www.transcanada.com image 537x600]

beta_plus: can't wait to laugh my ass off at Fark Libtards when Canada finishes its pipeline to BC and starts selling to China

Newsflash: The oil from the Keystone XL pipeline was ALWAYS destined for the Chinese market.


Newsflash: the Republitrolls knew that a few weeks after they forced the denial of the permit, they could start claiming it would have solved ALL of our energy problems and the IdioBase would eat it up.
 
2012-04-17 01:44:50 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: winterwhile: Except dog catcher, and that he would dark up as well

I love it when the trolls get freudian.


d is right next to f. It's his keyboard that's racist.
 
2012-04-17 01:45:32 PM  
So you're saying Obama DOES control gas prices!

Thanks, GOP! I knew I could trust you and not those LIEberals!
 
2012-04-17 01:46:23 PM  

cman: This is the kind of big move that if it turns to shiat he wont be sitting in the oval office come January.


You know who else took huge risks that might have ended their Presidency?

resources2.news.com.au
 
2012-04-17 01:46:31 PM  

MrBallou: Almet: coeyagi: Jesus H. Christ, is there ONE GOD DAMN REPUBLICAN left with an ounce of dignity and decency? fark these clowns in the ass with a barbed dildo until they bleed to death.

fap?

Stop it. The woman in the next cubicle thinks I have a respiratory disease because I keep snorting when I read this stuff.


What if it has rusty barbs?
 
2012-04-17 01:46:31 PM  

MrBallou: Newsflash: the Republitrolls knew that a few weeks after they forced the denial of the permit, they could start claiming it would have solved ALL of our energy problems and the IdioBase would eat it up.


Agreed. "Drill, Baby drill!" had run its course and was a little worn out. They needed a new schtick.
 
2012-04-17 01:47:02 PM  

AntiNerd: BP Oil makes a net profit of $60M per day. They are peanuts next to Exxon, which not only pays no taxes but has never paid a dime on the so-called fines imposed for the Exxon-Valdez spill.

The U.S. Government supports these companies with subsidies. They are full-on partners at the public's expense.


That is why our gas is so cheap. See post from Canadian earlier and then quit "whinging"
 
2012-04-17 01:48:37 PM  

coeyagi: beta_plus: If only there was a pipeline from Canada Obama could allow to be built to help reduce the price of gasoline, if only ...

/can't wait to laugh my ass off at Fark Libtards when Canada finishes its pipeline to BC and starts selling to China and the unusually cheap oil we get from Canada dissappears

MAXIMUM IGNORANCE!

Hello, hello Mr. Obama-is-committing-genocide-in-Libya, anyone home? Think McDumbass Think. You gotta have time to retype. You know what happens when you drool on yourself, don't read anything but New Republic, and then post impulsively? You look like a retard. You wouldn't want that to happen, would ya? WOULD YA?!??!


Oh, my fark stalker is back! I missed you so much. I'm sure you'd never bring up the liberal talking point that creating choke points for oil sales is causing gas prices to be lower in the Midwest.

/oil is MOSTLY fungible
//or do you not know the difference between WTI and Brent Sea?
///why are you so racist against Chinese to make them pay more for oil than we do?
 
2012-04-17 01:51:03 PM  

Flab: beta_plus: If only there was a pipeline from Canada

Apart form those, you mean?

[www.transcanada.com image 537x600]

beta_plus: can't wait to laugh my ass off at Fark Libtards when Canada finishes its pipeline to BC and starts selling to China

Newsflash: The oil from the Keystone XL pipeline was ALWAYS destined for the Chinese market.


I keep forgetting oil changes from being completely fungible to non just like Hispanics go from being a race to an ethnicity depending on whatever makes Republicans look bad. Thank you for correcting me.
 
2012-04-17 01:53:16 PM  

beta_plus: I keep forgetting oil changes from being completely fungible to non just like Hispanics go from being a race to an ethnicity depending on whatever makes Republicans look bad. Thank you for correcting me.


Dude. Just walk away. Your spittle is getting on me.
 
2012-04-17 01:53:52 PM  

whidbey: Also gas needs to be about $10 a gallon if we're ever going to have any hope of moving beyond petroleum.

Sorry if that makes some of you mad.



Why does Obama want to destroy our economic infrastructure?
 
2012-04-17 01:53:56 PM  

beta_plus: I keep forgetting oil changes from being completely fungible to non


What does that have to do with oil being sent to China?
 
2012-04-17 01:54:02 PM  

Death to New Rome: Gas prices will be harder to lower for Obama than the unemployment rate.


But I thought they were higher because he was FORCING them to increase.

Try to keep up with the latest talking points.
 
2012-04-17 01:54:32 PM  

lacrossestar83: So you're saying Obama DOES control gas prices!

Thanks, GOP! I knew I could trust you and not those LIEberals!


Yeah, it's common knowledge that there is a gas pump in the Oval Office. Every time he changes the PPG, ALL the gas prices fluctuate throughout the country.

BWAhahahahahaha
 
2012-04-17 01:54:53 PM  

Lando Lincoln: He's going to limit them by eliminating many of them? And by "eliminate" I mean, "shoot them in the head and bury them in a shallow grave?"


No, he's going to expand government by creating a bureaucracy that does nothing. Notice how it "strengthens" the role and doesn't "create" it? Exactly what aren't they doing now that they will be doing in the future? Exactly nothing. Except spend. They'll spend more by hiring more police but the law will be the same. No new illegal acts, just more investigation and increase of fines that they don't actually enforce anyway.
 
2012-04-17 01:56:27 PM  

beta_plus: coeyagi: beta_plus: If only there was a pipeline from Canada Obama could allow to be built to help reduce the price of gasoline, if only ...

/can't wait to laugh my ass off at Fark Libtards when Canada finishes its pipeline to BC and starts selling to China and the unusually cheap oil we get from Canada dissappears

MAXIMUM IGNORANCE!

Hello, hello Mr. Obama-is-committing-genocide-in-Libya, anyone home? Think McDumbass Think. You gotta have time to retype. You know what happens when you drool on yourself, don't read anything but New Republic, and then post impulsively? You look like a retard. You wouldn't want that to happen, would ya? WOULD YA?!??!

Oh, my fark stalker is back! I missed you so much. I'm sure you'd never bring up the liberal talking point that creating choke points for oil sales is causing gas prices to be lower in the Midwest.

/oil is MOSTLY fungible
//or do you not know the difference between WTI and Brent Sea?
///why are you so racist against Chinese to make them pay more for oil than we do?


Fark stalker? Dude, you made a blatant lie, I corrected you, you doubled down, and I will keep haunting you with it until you retract it, you shameless shill.

As for the topic at hand, show me how the Keystone XL pipeline is going to reduce the price of gas. Go ahead, show me. You can't. Because it won't.

Link (new window)
 
2012-04-17 01:59:11 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: You honestly think that restricting speculators, which is going to make oil cheaper for everyone not just the US, is going to drive people to the Euro? The same currency whose existence within 5 years is being actively questioned today? That Euro?


Thinking that removing speculators from oil futures trading will lower gas prices is like thinking removing scalpers from advance ticket purchases will reduce concert prices. Both make the fundamental mistake of confusing market size with congestion pricing.
 
2012-04-17 02:00:27 PM  
I want to see boobies.

// not related to the article just a general comment.
 
2012-04-17 02:01:44 PM  
But higher gas prices lower pollution faster than higher mpg standards!
 
2012-04-17 02:05:16 PM  

sprawl15: Mikey1969: All it does is route gas straight from Canada to international ports in Texas. Actually, it may increase gas prices in the Midwest, because a traditional surplus of gasoline in that area that keeps gas prices low, would be sent straight down that pipeline, removing the extra available oil and keeping prices high.

The Cushing-Gulf Coast leg of the Keystone XL pipeline was already approved. They split the original proposal into the lower leg and the upper legs...it's the latter that's awaiting approval (though I don't think they've submitted the new route yet).


My point was that it isn't some kind of magic solution, it does nothing like the Right is pretending like it does, it's just a pipeline, and it bypasses the US with its supplies pretty much.
 
2012-04-17 02:06:17 PM  

Mikey1969: My point was that it isn't some kind of magic solution, it does nothing like the Right is pretending like it does


I never said it was, and I never said it did.
 
2012-04-17 02:08:40 PM  

Mrtraveler01: beta_plus: I keep forgetting oil changes from being completely fungible to non

What does that have to do with oil refined petroleum products being sent to China?


FTFY
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2012-04-17 02:09:23 PM  

MrBallou: cameroncrazy1984: winterwhile: Except dog catcher, and that he would dark up as well

I love it when the trolls get freudian.

d is right next to f. It's his keyboard that's racist.


Your keyboard is the racist for pointing out his keyboard is racist.
 
2012-04-17 02:09:38 PM  

winterwhile: This pretty much seals it

Obama is totally the biggest waste of my money to pay him to be in any office

Except dog catcher, and that he would dark up as well


More ellipses and comments about your grandma's knee. No one thinks your funny, witty, creative, useful or insightful. MOAR ELLIPSES, DAMNIT!
 
2012-04-17 02:11:02 PM  

unyon: DROxINxTHExWIND: Yeah, ok Ann Romney. Thanks for your input. Gas isn't influencing people's transportation decisions? You must live in a bubble. I do alright and I've noticed that gas has gone from a monthly cost I have to live with to a potential burden that has to be monitored. If you think people aren't taking fewer trips to grandma's house or driving less than they otherwise would, you're out of touch...or pretending to be well off.

I might be out of touch. I live within about 10km of all of my clients, work from home at least 3 days a week, and drive a fuel efficient car. But I made all of those choices a long time ago, and one of the reasons for doing so is exactly this.

When gas peaked in the summer of 2008, there were noticable changes not only in people's driving habits, but in the cars that they chose to purchase. I haven't seen much evidence of that sort of behavioural change just yet.

BTW- I also live in Canada, where gas is the equivalent ~$4.50-$5.00 a gallon. Frankly, listening to Americans whinge about either gas prices or taxes is pretty farking laughable.




Lupine Chemist: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: cman:
IMO, oil speculators is the better of two evils with the pump being $3.50 a gallon, rather than it being priced $8 a gallon in Euro's

Yet somehow the base price of gas, excluding locally applied taxes, is about the same across Europe as it is here...

Let's math.

95 octane here (lowest normal gasoline) is around €1,50/L, or roughly the equivalent to 7.37 USD/US gal.

Fuel taxes are around €0,37/L making the tax-free price around €1,13/L. That corresponds to around 5.55 USD/US gal.


In short, you are full of shiat and people will live with high fuel prices. I drive around 40 km daily to work. Sorry it hurts people that they will have to make decisions based on the cost of fuel, but hey that's how it works. My parents in the middle of the countryside NEEDED a giant V8 pickup. Nevermind that they don't haul anything save for very rarely and they could have gotten a cheap ford ranger and a decent driving around efficient car for the price they paid for the bohemoth. It means that I paid significantly more per unit of distance borrowing their truck in the US than I pay driving my little box around Spain.

Everyone knew gas was going to get expensive again after the 2008 crash but nobody seemed to give two shiats.

/Used 3.78 L = 1 US gal and US$ 1.3 = €1


I wondered when Canada and Europe were going to show up and correct my countrymen. Since I didn't have the exact numbers, I was waiting, but I knew y'all pay a whole HELL of a lot more than we ever have.
 
2012-04-17 02:15:01 PM  

Mrtraveler01: But a bunch of oil executives in Calgary will get richer as a result of this...

Why won't you think of the poor oil executives?


Oh, I DO think of the oil executives, every time that we have to go into overdraft to get enough gas to make it to payday...
 
2012-04-17 02:16:47 PM  
IS this the right time to mention those times people insisted criticism of Obama on oil prices was wrong because the President couldn't influence the cost of oil?
 
2012-04-17 02:16:48 PM  

Aigoo: unyon: DROxINxTHExWIND: Yeah, ok Ann Romney. Thanks for your input. Gas isn't influencing people's transportation decisions? You must live in a bubble. I do alright and I've noticed that gas has gone from a monthly cost I have to live with to a potential burden that has to be monitored. If you think people aren't taking fewer trips to grandma's house or driving less than they otherwise would, you're out of touch...or pretending to be well off.

I might be out of touch. I live within about 10km of all of my clients, work from home at least 3 days a week, and drive a fuel efficient car. But I made all of those choices a long time ago, and one of the reasons for doing so is exactly this.

When gas peaked in the summer of 2008, there were noticable changes not only in people's driving habits, but in the cars that they chose to purchase. I haven't seen much evidence of that sort of behavioural change just yet.

BTW- I also live in Canada, where gas is the equivalent ~$4.50-$5.00 a gallon. Frankly, listening to Americans whinge about either gas prices or taxes is pretty farking laughable.



Lupine Chemist: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: cman:
IMO, oil speculators is the better of two evils with the pump being $3.50 a gallon, rather than it being priced $8 a gallon in Euro's

Yet somehow the base price of gas, excluding locally applied taxes, is about the same across Europe as it is here...

Let's math.

95 octane here (lowest normal gasoline) is around €1,50/L, or roughly the equivalent to 7.37 USD/US gal.

Fuel taxes are around €0,37/L making the tax-free price around €1,13/L. That corresponds to around 5.55 USD/US gal.

In short, you are full of shiat and people will live with high fuel prices. I drive around 40 km daily to work. Sorry it hurts people that they will have to make decisions based on the cost of fuel, but hey that's how it works. My parents in the middle of the countryside NEEDED a giant V8 pickup. Nevermind that they don't haul anything save fo ...


Dude, you aren't correcting Americans. Saying something is 'high' is completely relative, not absolute. Yes, Americans are in fact mostly selfish pussies on the issue, but to them, it is 'high', especially if the cost rise rate exceeds both inflation and wage increases.

And, you aren't factoring in mass transit nightmares in the U.S. compared to relatively better mass transit in Europe. We wouldn't be biatching as much if there was better mass transit (which, btw, the stimulus offered in many cases and dickhead GOP congress critters like Cantor voted down EXCEPT in his own district, that miserable bag of puke).
 
2012-04-17 02:17:22 PM  

winterwhile: he would dark up as well


Wow, Freudian Slip much??
 
2012-04-17 02:17:34 PM  
Republicans: ZOMG I CAN'T BELIEVE OBONGO WON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT GAS PRICES

Obama: Alright, let's do something.

Republicans: ... ... ... ZOMG I CAN'T BELIEVE OBONGO IS TRYING TO CONTROL GAS PRICES
 
2012-04-17 02:20:17 PM  

jbc: MrBallou: cameroncrazy1984: winterwhile: Except dog catcher, and that he would dark up as well

I love it when the trolls get freudian.

d is right next to f. It's his keyboard that's racist.

Your keyboard is the racist for pointing out his keyboard is racist.


keybagger...
 
2012-04-17 02:21:29 PM  

I Said: Lionel Mandrake: Wow, Republicans turn against something they supported once Obama endorses it?

Shocking!!

I'm hoping he endorses Romney in a few months


Romney is far to left for a reasonable moderate like obama
 
2012-04-17 02:23:04 PM  

Chimperror2: Lando Lincoln: He's going to limit them by eliminating many of them? And by "eliminate" I mean, "shoot them in the head and bury them in a shallow grave?"

No, he's going to expand government by creating a bureaucracy that does nothing. Notice how it "strengthens" the role and doesn't "create" it? Exactly what aren't they doing now that they will be doing in the future? Exactly nothing. Except spend. They'll spend more by hiring more police but the law will be the same. No new illegal acts, just more investigation and increase of fines that they don't actually enforce anyway.


You don't really know how this works, so you?

When you already have an agency in place, and people are doing their jobs, but things aren't getting done, it usually means that people are either overwhelmed, penalties aren't severe enough to be a bother, or the rules aren't being followed.

This helps enforce the law, adds stiffer penalties AND adds more people, thereby fixing all three of those issues.

Thanks for playing!!!!
 
2012-04-17 02:23:59 PM  

Lupine Chemist:
IMO,
Let's math.

95 octane here (lowest normal gasoline) is around €1,50/L, or roughly the equivalent to 7.37 USD/US gal.

Fuel taxes are around €0,37/L making the tax-free price around €1,13/L. That corresponds to around 5.55 USD/US gal.


From this: http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/03/06/spanish-fuel-tax-amo ng-europes-lowest/ it seems that taxes make up 48% of your gas bill. So that €1.50 goes to about 78c before tax. So 78 x 3.78 x 1.3 = $3.83/ US gallon. Which is not far off what it is in the US. My last fill up was about 4.40 for 98 octane, but prices here seem a little higher than elsewhere.

Just going by the first link I found, if you have an alternative more accurate source on Spainish gas taxes I'm happy to re-evaluate.


People will live with high fuel prices. I drive around 40 km daily to work. Sorry it hurts people that they will have to make decisions based on the cost of fuel, but hey that's how it works. My parents in the middle of the countryside NEEDED a giant V8 pickup. Nevermind that they don't haul anything save for very rarely and they could have gotten a cheap ford ranger and a decent driving around efficient car for the price they paid for the bohemoth. It means that I paid significantly more per unit of distance borrowing their truck in the US than I pay driving my little box around Spain.

Agree with all this 100%.
 
2012-04-17 02:27:46 PM  

GAT_00: cman: This may not be the best of ideas.

Oil is traded on the US market for one simple reason: fewer regulations.

If Oil Speculation was to move to a European country, we would be farked over many times because of the costs of currency exchange and foreign taxes.

IMO, oil speculators is the better of two evils with the pump being $3.50 a gallon, rather than it being priced $8 a gallon in Euro's

You seem to have no idea how oil is actually traded and how gas prices relate to oil prices.


Nobody does, that's why the speculators have got away with it as long as they have.
 
2012-04-17 02:32:06 PM  
Oh, You...

4c.img.v4.skyrock.net

You're good. You've got a gift my friend.
 
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