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(National Journal)   Barney Frank begins process of throwing Obama under the bus   (nationaljournal.com) divider line 199
    More: Obvious, President Obama, health care, President Clinton, D-Mass  
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5351 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Apr 2012 at 8:10 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-16 08:45:33 PM  

peasandcarrots: You know, it's rare that I say "Gosh, that career politician has a point," but is there any reason Obamacare couldn't have been done piecemeal? I remember that the ACA polled low while its individual reforms polled well. Would a bunch of baby steps have been better reform than one big jagged pill?


Just try to get the "insurance companies must take all customers, regardless of pre-existing conditions" when customers can choose to avoid paying premiums until they come down with expensive medical problems. So no, it's not possible.

I know I wouldn't be worried about the 90% of the bill I like if the Supreme Court weren't considering chucking the whole thing
Your lips to God's ears.
 
2012-04-16 08:45:33 PM  

StopLurkListen: Waxing_Chewbacca: My ignore list. It's growing expodentially tonight.

"Explodentially"? You totally meant that. Awesome.


It's an iPhone and I'm tired.
 
2012-04-16 08:46:05 PM  

RoyBatty: I think if President Obama had gone after financial reform first, on the heels of the Bush led meltdown, and had tossed banksters in jail, I think he would have largely disarmed the Tea Party.

I'm not saying he could have gotten health care passed, but right now, we have neither financial reform or as seems likelier every day, healthcare reform.

Have we thrown a single bankster in jail?


Before one gets thrown in jail, one must break the law first. You cannot jail people based upon emotions.

Madoff, for example, seriously broke the law and he is paying for his crimes.
 
2012-04-16 08:46:52 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: StopLurkListen: Waxing_Chewbacca: My ignore list. It's growing expodentially tonight.

"Explodentially"? You totally meant that. Awesome.

It's an iPhone and I'm tired.


You're modest and a liar. It's awesome and I'm stealing it.
 
2012-04-16 08:47:05 PM  

RoyBatty: I think if President Obama had gone after financial reform first, on the heels of the Bush led meltdown, and had tossed banksters in jail, I think he would have largely disarmed the Tea Party.

I'm not saying he could have gotten health care passed, but right now, we have neither financial reform or as seems likelier every day, healthcare reform.

Have we thrown a single bankster in jail?


Just remember the day Obama, McCain and Bush all appeared together on stage to endorse the bank bailout. Think about that.
 
2012-04-16 08:48:06 PM  

peasandcarrots: You know, it's rare that I say "Gosh, that career politician has a point," but is there any reason Obamacare couldn't have been done piecemeal? I remember that the ACA polled low while its individual reforms polled well. Would a bunch of baby steps have been better reform than one big jagged pill?

I know I wouldn't be worried about the 90% of the bill I like if the Supreme Court weren't considering chucking the whole thing.


It's a good point, but the problem is, presidents have been trying to get this done since Nixon. It's always one step forward, two steps back. And in the meantime, Americans are suffering.

Obama stuck his neck out and staked his political future on ACA, putting his money where so many other presidents' mouths were. No matter what other disagreements I have with him (and contrary to popular belief, there are quite a few; heck, on healthcare alone, I would have gone with the public option), I'll always respect him for doing that.
 
2012-04-16 08:48:15 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: TheDumbBlonde: I dare say, Obama would rather be under a bus than under Barney.

Interesting that all you see of the man is his sexuality.



When I see Barney, I don't think about sex much.
 
2012-04-16 08:48:57 PM  

cman: Madoff, for example, seriously broke the law and he is paying for his crimes.


Madoff is in jail because he eff'ed with the wrong people. Goldman Sachs keeps paid up with the right folks.
 
2012-04-16 08:50:14 PM  

farkityfarker: "When you try to extend health care to people who don't have it, people who have it and are on the whole satisfied with it get nervous."

A damning indictment of the American people, if a majority of them feel this way.


They get nervous because they are too farking stupid to understand that they are paying for the health care of those not covered now in higher premiums.

I think Frank is great, but this was a really dumb thing to say.
 
2012-04-16 08:51:26 PM  
s2.hubimg.com
This picture supposedly shows a million people in Rio de Janeiro. Now imagine a picture showing the 30-50 million. These are the people health care reform is meant to help. This is why our President spent so much 'political capital' to accomplish it. He takes the words 'leadership' and 'service' seriously.
 
2012-04-16 08:54:21 PM  

RoyBatty: I think if President Obama had gone after financial reform first, on the heels of the Bush led meltdown, and had tossed banksters in jail, I think he would have largely disarmed the Tea Party.

I'm not saying he could have gotten health care passed, but right now, we have neither financial reform or as seems likelier every day, healthcare reform.

Have we thrown a single bankster in jail?


I think Obama's agenda was to get health care, not cleaning up after the Republicans. Cleaning up had to (and still has to) be done, but he didn't want to use up his political capital on cleaning up their mess.
 
2012-04-16 08:54:25 PM  
Barney got one right, too bad he could not do the same in Finance
 
2012-04-16 08:54:25 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Obama had to do obamacare because he had no clue about how to improve the economy.


The economy hasn't improved? We are still losing 700k jobs a month? The stock market is still in the tank?

I really, truly can't tell if you are serious the majority of the time you post.
 
2012-04-16 08:56:09 PM  
I agree with him. I think he should have addressed Wall Street shenanigans and other economy driven issues first.
However, I contend that no matter what the President did or what order he did it in, the GOP was never going to negotiate anything with him.
Their priority was clear from the get go and it didn't have much to do with anything good for the country.
 
2012-04-16 08:57:38 PM  

Relatively Obscure: He said that if the president had followed his advice, "you could have gotten some pieces of it."

LOL no


Yeah, I'm wondering how that was going to happen considering the GOP was hellbent on opposing everything.
 
2012-04-16 08:58:55 PM  

feckingmorons: Who could possibly care what that pervert has to say?


Total Fark Libtards.
 
2012-04-16 08:59:01 PM  
Barney Frank says Obama should have focused on his favored cause instead of Obama's favored cause.

1.bp.blogspot.com

News, this is? Care, do we? Both good causes, both need work, yes. Throwing under busses this is not.
 
2012-04-16 09:01:05 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: News, this is? Care, do we? Both good causes, both need work, yes. Throwing under busses this is not.


How is it that Yoda, who was supposedly 900 years old, never learned to speak English better than that?
 
2012-04-16 09:01:15 PM  

red5ish: I think Obama's agenda was to get health care, not cleaning up after the Republicans. Cleaning up had to (and still has to) be done, but he didn't want to use up his political capital on cleaning up their mess.


Well, I think you're right that if Health Care looked to be in solid shape right now, no one would be second guessing his strategy.
 
2012-04-16 09:04:08 PM  

red5ish: A Dark Evil Omen: News, this is? Care, do we? Both good causes, both need work, yes. Throwing under busses this is not.

How is it that Yoda, who was supposedly 900 years old, never learned to speak English better than that?


No farks did he give. Spoke his own language he did. Make a farking effort to learn that, did anyone? Hmm? Learn to understand him, people would, or go fark themselves they could.
 
2012-04-16 09:05:10 PM  
Ah yes, the right wing approach to criticism: the president made a mistake = why do you hate America? I seriously hope you guys don't raise your kids that way; but if you do, at least now I know where middle managers come from.
 
2012-04-16 09:09:08 PM  

smeegle: However, I contend that no matter what the President did or what order he did it in, the GOP was never going to negotiate anything with him.


That's where this little thing called "politics" can help. Obama should have come up with a strategy to kill the GOP block, but instead he went flaccid and let them set the agenda. He's been a very weak president in that regard.
 
2012-04-16 09:10:33 PM  

RoyBatty: red5ish: I think Obama's agenda was to get health care, not cleaning up after the Republicans. Cleaning up had to (and still has to) be done, but he didn't want to use up his political capital on cleaning up their mess.

Well, I think you're right that if Health Care looked to be in solid shape right now, no one would be second guessing his strategy.


I think you haven't met Republicans re: the economy.
 
2012-04-16 09:11:16 PM  

PonceAlyosha: steal our precocious vital fluids.


Speak for yourself. My vital fluids are kinda slow for their age.


RoyBatty: Have we thrown a single bankster in jail?


According to my hippy friend who's all into conspiracy theories (fluoride, chemtrails, Mayan doomsday, etc) apparently there are going to be mass arrests any day now. (new window). That and some dude is totally going to get 4,638,791,996 kilograms of gold from the feds. (new window)
 
2012-04-16 09:12:03 PM  

MrEricSir: He's been a very weak president in that regard.


There were times when he could have just slammed the GOP for their outright stupidity and he didn't go there. Either he believes in playing civil and fair (smirk, politicians and fair) or he didn't feel it was worth it.
 
2012-04-16 09:12:15 PM  

Amos Quito: cameroncrazy1984: TheDumbBlonde: I dare say, Obama would rather be under a bus than under Barney.

Interesting that all you see of the man is his sexuality.


When I see Barney, I don't think about sex much.


So, how much, exactly?
 
2012-04-16 09:13:07 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: No farks did he give. Spoke his own language he did. Make a farking effort to learn that, did anyone? Hmm? Learn to understand him, people would, or go fark themselves they could.


Was his own language German? Because his syntax suggests that it was. But the question is purely academic (by which I mean that it is off topic and, in this case, silly). Digress I do.
 
2012-04-16 09:14:40 PM  

red5ish: RoyBatty: I think if President Obama had gone after financial reform first, on the heels of the Bush led meltdown, and had tossed banksters in jail, I think he would have largely disarmed the Tea Party.

I'm not saying he could have gotten health care passed, but right now, we have neither financial reform or as seems likelier every day, healthcare reform.

Have we thrown a single bankster in jail?

I think Obama's agenda was to get health care, not cleaning up after the Republicans. Cleaning up had to (and still has to) be done, but he didn't want to use up his political capital on cleaning up their mess.


Political capital is not a finite resource; you can build up more of it. I think if Obama had gone after financial reform instead of health care in 2009-10, if the Republicans had been so foolish as to oppose him (which they probably are), then their party would be in the political wilderness for at least a generation. After that he would have all the political capital he could want.

It's funny how it's always liberals who go on about political capital; conservatives, meanwhile,just push and push away at the things they want, and do you know what? They frequently get shiat done. Horrible shiat, granted, but still. The whole thing is basically a concept created by Democrats to justify their disgusting vacillating weakness.
 
2012-04-16 09:16:08 PM  
At least he's not in the tank.

/farking metaphors
//doublespeak?
 
2012-04-16 09:17:14 PM  

RoyBatty: I think if President Obama had gone after financial reform first, on the heels of the Bush led meltdown, and had tossed banksters in jail, I think he would have largely disarmed the Tea Party.

I'm not saying he could have gotten health care passed, but right now, we have neither financial reform or as seems likelier every day, healthcare reform.

Have we thrown a single bankster in jail?


I agree completely. Going after the Republican's overlords would have forced their hands to defend them and as a result marginalized them. Instead the Republicans took over the House in 2010. It was a short sighted political strategy to go after health care first.
 
2012-04-16 09:19:01 PM  

smeegle: MrEricSir: He's been a very weak president in that regard.

There were times when he could have just slammed the GOP for their outright stupidity and he didn't go there. Either he believes in playing civil and fair (smirk, politicians and fair) or he didn't feel it was worth it.


President Obama has frustrated his base by not engaging the Republicans for being intransigent earlier. It may be that he believes that Americans would see through their obstructionism and demand their representatives act for the good of the country. He may be guilty of naively believing in the intelligence of the American public.
 
2012-04-16 09:21:45 PM  

red5ish: He may be guilty of naively believing in the intelligence of the American public.


That, combined with the Koch brothers money filled propaganda mouth; better known as the TP. Death panels indeed.
 
2012-04-16 09:22:57 PM  

red5ish: smeegle: MrEricSir: He's been a very weak president in that regard.

There were times when he could have just slammed the GOP for their outright stupidity and he didn't go there. Either he believes in playing civil and fair (smirk, politicians and fair) or he didn't feel it was worth it.

President Obama has frustrated his base by not engaging the Republicans for being intransigent earlier. It may be that he believes that Americans would see through their obstructionism and demand their representatives act for the good of the country. He may be guilty of naively believing in the intelligence of the American public.


If he had gone that direction, the issue of millions of Americans unable to get insurance (since they are out of work) would have come back to haunt him just as much. Besides, I would have really thought there would be enough anger to get the finance stuff figure out without the President having to lead the effort.
 
2012-04-16 09:23:14 PM  

malaktaus: I think if Obama had gone after financial reform instead of health care in 2009-10, if the Republicans had been so foolish as to oppose him (which they probably are), then their party would be in the political wilderness for at least a generation. After that he would have all the political capital he could want.


It still wouldn't have brought back the jobs the GOP promised in their platform back in 2010.
 
2012-04-16 09:23:19 PM  

Jackson Herring: I want to throw "throwing x under the bus" under the bus


You just threw stale metaphors under the bus.
 
2012-04-16 09:23:49 PM  

tinyarena: [s2.hubimg.com image 520x390]
This picture supposedly shows a million people in Rio de Janeiro. Now imagine a picture showing the 30-50 million. These are the people health care reform is meant to help. This is why our President spent so much 'political capital' to accomplish it. He takes the words 'leadership' and 'service' seriously.


By "help", you mean "wasting a year on a piece of legislation that has now spent another year being dragged through the court system because of a dubious mandate, which the President himself spoke against during the 08 primaries, and which simply forces people into the private insurance system without any regard to the feasibility of a public option or single-payer program"?

Because that's totally not the "help" those people needed.
 
2012-04-16 09:25:11 PM  

StopLurkListen: Waxing_Chewbacca: StopLurkListen: Waxing_Chewbacca: My ignore list. It's growing expodentially tonight.

"Explodentially"? You totally meant that. Awesome.

It's an iPhone and I'm tired.

You're modest and a liar. It's awesome and I'm stealing it.


I salute you and endorse this theft. I am now also drunk.
 
2012-04-16 09:25:41 PM  

GameSprocket: Besides, I would have really thought there would be enough anger to get the finance stuff figure out without the President having to lead the effort.


Too many politicians in pockets that won't act without being pushed. Corporations own the politicians. They stopped working for the people years ago.
 
2012-04-16 09:27:43 PM  

thrgd456: i look forward to seeing Barney getting buried under the avalanche of Obama-ism.

/this figurative vision is making my mouth actually water with anticipation



I'm sure Marcus Bachmann would be willing to help you out with that.
 
2012-04-16 09:32:22 PM  

malaktaus: Political capital is not a finite resource; you can build up more of it. I think if Obama had gone after financial reform instead of health care in 2009-10, if the Republicans had been so foolish as to oppose him (which they probably are), then their party would be in the political wilderness for at least a generation. After that he would have all the political capital he could want.

It's funny how it's always liberals who go on about political capital; conservatives, meanwhile,just push and push away at the things they want, and do you know what? They frequently get shiat done. Horrible shiat, granted, but still. The whole thing is basically a concept created by Democrats to justify their disgusting vacillating weakness.


The behavior of the congress during President Obama's first term leads me to believe that he would have had a hard time taking on either problem. The Republicans have, in fact, worked in concert to block attempts to address the financial crises - there is no "which they probably are" about it.

You may be right about building political capital after a success but given the results of the 2010 elections it seems unlikely he could have gotten anything done with regard to healthcare had he prioritized the financial problem over healthcare reform early in his term. The financial crises was and still is a long term problem where there are conflicting ideas about how the government plays a role in fixing it. Healthcare, on the other hand, could be fixed and needs to be fixed and is arguably part of fixing the financial problem.
 
2012-04-16 09:36:49 PM  
Oh, you only fight the fights you can win? You fight the fights that need fighting!
 
2012-04-16 09:37:07 PM  

feckingmorons: Who could possibly care what that pervert has to say?


Will the filter prevent you from saying "faggot" like you normally call him?
 
2012-04-16 09:40:17 PM  

mat catastrophe:
By "help", you mean "wasting a year on a piece of legislation that has now spent another year being dragged through the court system because of a dubious mandate, which the President himself spoke against during the 08 primaries, and which simply forces people into the private insurance system without any regard to the feasibility of a public option or single-payer program"?

Because that's totally not the "help" those people needed.


Of course you're right. Better to have done nothing. I'll go tell them:

"Hey! Everbody! Stop coughing for a minute and Listen Up! Health Care Not For You! Now off with you!"
 
2012-04-16 09:45:29 PM  
No, if the Blue Dogs hadn't thrown Obama under the bus during the debate, everything would have been fine. They made the Democrats look weak following an election in which the party was given a national mandate.
 
2012-04-16 09:50:37 PM  

gilgigamesh: feckingmorons: Who could possibly care what that pervert has to say?

Classy.


I'm not the one who had a gay prostitution ring run from my home.
 
2012-04-16 09:51:43 PM  

farkityfarker: "When you try to extend health care to people who don't have it, people who have it and are on the whole satisfied with it get nervous."

A damning indictment of the American people, if a majority of them feel this way.


This is a Christian nation, Sir. Jesus can't continually raise the dead to life, heal the sick and feed the poor until Congress approves it.
 
2012-04-16 09:58:57 PM  

FormlessOne: Wait - so "issuing a valid criticism regarding Obama's political priorities" equals "throwing Obama under the bus?"


Wait, when did that stop being called "racism"?
 
2012-04-16 10:01:49 PM  

feckingmorons: gilgigamesh: feckingmorons: Who could possibly care what that pervert has to say?

Classy.

I'm not the one who had a gay prostitution ring run from my home.


Something tells me you just haven't been caught yet.
 
2012-04-16 10:03:05 PM  

Pope Poutrage VI: Amos Quito: cameroncrazy1984: TheDumbBlonde: I dare say, Obama would rather be under a bus than under Barney.

Interesting that all you see of the man is his sexuality.


When I see Barney, I don't think about sex much.

So, how much, exactly?


That much. We won't judge you, fwend.
 
2012-04-16 10:04:46 PM  

bgddy24601: Oh, you only fight the fights you can win? You fight the fights that need fighting!


Ekfarkingxactly. Cowardice lost them the '10 house and senate elections. If they had trumpeted healthcare from the rooftops they would never have crumbled, instead they acted like they were ashamed of their achievement. You do that you have already lost.
 
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