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(Yahoo)   The fact that global warming is "an unproven theory pushed by tree-huggers" hasn't stopped the five nations bordering the Arctic from preparing their militaries to seize the Northwest Passage the moment it thaws   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 354
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11202 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2012 at 10:03 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-16 10:00:43 AM
This isn't new. The noted liberal tree-hugging hippies who write the Pentagon's Quadrennial Defense Review (new window; PDF) devoted 5 pages to the links between climate change, energy policy, and national security. That's a 105-page document where they decided that, say, counter-WMD activities could be covered in 3.

"The Department is increasing its use of renewable energy supplies and reducing energy demand
to improve operational effectiveness, reduce greenhouse gas emissions in support of U.S. climate
change initiatives, and protect the Department from energy price fluctuations."
 
2012-04-16 10:04:58 AM
Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.
 
2012-04-16 10:05:45 AM
Airplanes, you morons. Look into them.
 
2012-04-16 10:05:46 AM

chimp_ninja: That's a 105-page document where they decided that, say, counter-WMD activities could be covered in 3.


Readin' is fer 'Merika hatin' terrists.
 
2012-04-16 10:07:26 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Airplanes, you morons. Look into them.


You've never tried to fly a tanker of crude oil, I'm assuming.
 
2012-04-16 10:07:33 AM
That's because military planners aren't as stupid as climate change deniers. Military planners have to work in the bounds of what we call "reality".
 
2012-04-16 10:08:25 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.


Actually growing, so seasonally growing? Because for some reason global warming skeptics think pointing out that it's cold in February is proof global warming and climate change aren't real.
 
2012-04-16 10:08:54 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.


Citation needed.
 
2012-04-16 10:08:58 AM
Nice. It only took 500 years.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-04-16 10:09:05 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.


Ah, yes, those dumb experts should have had someone smart like you to set them straight on the whole issue.
 
2012-04-16 10:09:06 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.


Well... one himalayan glacier has gained mass. Not all of them *sigh*.
 
2012-04-16 10:09:42 AM
So a real life "battle of the five armies" then? You gotta figure the US and Canada would be on the same side, but who else is gonna team up?
 
2012-04-16 10:10:37 AM

reveal101: That's because military planners aren't as stupid as climate change deniers. Military planners have to work in the bounds of what we call "reality".


done in five.
 
2012-04-16 10:12:14 AM
Regardless of whether or not global warming is happening, how high will the oceans raise if we lose a significant amount of ice from the poles? Are we talking Manhattan under two feet of water? I have only heard that we will lose coastal towns, but I highly doubt that they would just let NYC sink. New Yorkers are too stubborn to be drowned. Is there a map of what will be underwater in the next 10-20 years?
 
2012-04-16 10:13:40 AM

reveal101: That's because military planners aren't as stupid as climate change deniers. Military planners have to work in the bounds of what we call "reality".


Military planners also have plans to attack Canada, England, Australia, and West Senegal.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-04-16 10:15:02 AM

skodabunny: jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.

Well... one himalayan glacier has gained mass. Not all of them *sigh*.


I would imagine it has more to do with an increase in humidity due to a warming climate. Moisture that previously would have frozen out at a lower altitude now makes it to higher glaciers.

Of course that is a complex chain of reasoning for a real marekin.
 
2012-04-16 10:16:00 AM
I thought we all finally agreed it was real after a conservative backed study taking account of all conservative criticisms of climate change study were addressed, and still found it to be real.
Richard Muller, Koch brothers-funded scientist, declares global warming is real
(new window)

There really is nothing left to argue unless you are an idiot devoid of reasoning living in a fantasy land.

/ Seriously
 
2012-04-16 10:16:06 AM
Soon Sarah Palin can walk to Russia.
 
2012-04-16 10:17:03 AM

georgeyporgey: reveal101: That's because military planners aren't as stupid as climate change deniers. Military planners have to work in the bounds of what we call "reality".

Military planners also have plans to attack Canada, England, Australia, and West Senegal.


Kate, can you bring up "Operation Northern Lights" on the big board please?

/Tell them we just ended hunting season
//On the great snowy honker
 
2012-04-16 10:17:03 AM
But the U.S. remains ill-equipped for large-scale Arctic missions, according to a simulation conducted by the U.S. Naval War College. A summary released last month found the Navy is "inadequately prepared to conduct sustained maritime operations in the Arctic" because it lacks ships able to operate in or near Arctic ice, support facilities and adequate communications.

Oh no, we're going to have to beef up the defense budget. Obviously this territory is ours by RIGHT.
 
2012-04-16 10:17:10 AM

exatron:

Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.

Citation needed.


agreed, need a citation on that.
the climate has NEVER changed before man and industrialization
It has been totally 100% the same until about 1850 when we started using the devil juice from the dinosaurs to power those infernal machines we built.
Get rid of all machines and climate will once again never change.
 
2012-04-16 10:17:22 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.


Surely you have evidence of this?

Surely you have considered that 97% of climate scientists have considered your view on natural changes?

Surely you have read, or know what a peer reviewed journal is?

Im guessing:

No
No
and No

Thanks for playing
 
2012-04-16 10:18:04 AM
At least when the Northwest passage clears, the straits of Hormuz and the Suez and all those little bigoted countries will lose a lot of importance. And money.

It's a much shorter trip around the world via the Northwest passage.

And let's have a moment of silence for plucky little Panama.
 
2012-04-16 10:19:52 AM

Silly Jesus: Soon Sarah Palin can walk to Russia.


That would only be true if the Earth's global temp was sinking - and since it's the exact opposite, it's more like the gap between Alaska and Russia will likely grow wider, as the Siberian side is actually pretty close to sea level.
 
2012-04-16 10:20:14 AM

reveal101: That's because military planners aren't as stupid as climate change deniers. Military planners have to work in the bounds of what we call "reality".


Right, that is why we had the big military build up in the 1970s and 1980s.
They first had to deal with the reality of the coming ice age (equipping tanks with snow shoes is expensive),
then we had the reality of the Star Wars program and of course later the reality of the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
 
2012-04-16 10:20:27 AM

exatron: jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.

Citation needed.


Really you need a citation that the climate has changed over and over on this planet??

Did you sleep during 3rd grade science?
 
2012-04-16 10:21:20 AM

duffblue: Are we talking Manhattan under two feet of water? I have only heard that we will lose coastal towns, but I highly doubt that they would just let NYC sink.


Depends. NYC might lose the edge of Manhattan with a 1 ft. increase in the sea level, but South Florida could be wiped out entirely.
 
2012-04-16 10:21:54 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.


i25.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-16 10:22:26 AM

KimNorth: Really you need a citation that the climate has changed over and over on this planet??

Did you sleep during 3rd grade science?


6/10
 
2012-04-16 10:22:49 AM
Our Carbon Dioxide has spread to the other planets in the solar system!

The Mars ice caps are melting too. If we don't base a global currency bases on carbon taxes immediately, Venus will actually melt.

Just tell me what I have to pay to stop the weather. Sacrifice virgins to the volcano god, pay carbon taxes, same thing. :)
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-04-16 10:22:57 AM

georgeyporgey: reveal101: That's because military planners aren't as stupid as climate change deniers. Military planners have to work in the bounds of what we call "reality".

Military planners also have plans to attack Canada, England, Australia, and West Senegal.


So Fox says that that was all in the QDR?
 
2012-04-16 10:23:04 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.



Citation Needed
\o/
|
/\
 
2012-04-16 10:23:09 AM

guyinjeep16:
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.

Surely you have evidence of this?

Surely you have considered that 97% of climate scientists have considered your view on natural changes?



I agree!
Once again, 97% of climate scientists claim that the climate has NEVER changed before due to natural changes or causes.
ALL changes in the climate over the last 2,000,000 years (the oldest tree ring data they have) proves that.
The climate has only changed due to man.
 
2012-04-16 10:23:18 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: duffblue: Are we talking Manhattan under two feet of water? I have only heard that we will lose coastal towns, but I highly doubt that they would just let NYC sink.

Depends. NYC might lose the edge of Manhattan with a 1 ft. increase in the sea level, but South Florida could be wiped out entirely.


you say that like it's a bad thing
 
2012-04-16 10:23:22 AM
 
2012-04-16 10:23:53 AM

duffblue: Regardless of whether or not global warming is happening, how high will the oceans raise if we lose a significant amount of ice from the poles? Are we talking Manhattan under two feet of water? I have only heard that we will lose coastal towns, but I highly doubt that they would just let NYC sink. New Yorkers are too stubborn to be drowned. Is there a map of what will be underwater in the next 10-20 years?


I used to work for a climate change research group based in NYC. We used the FEMA flood maps to do our predictions.

https://msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/info?storeId=10001&cat a logId=10001&langId=-1&content=firmHelp_1&title=How%2520to%2520Find%252 0Your%2520Flood%2520Map

Sorry, Fark won't let me link to the relevant page

We actually used the GIS layers to do our mapping but for your use the digital copies of the paper maps work well if you don't happen to own ESRI's overpriced shiat. How high the sea level will get is still an open question and subject to coastal geography too. It's complicated math but you can get the basic idea from these.
 
2012-04-16 10:24:40 AM

reveal101: That's because military planners aren't as stupid as climate change deniers. Military planners have to work in the bounds of what we call "reality".


And again, who gives a fark about global warming, except the people who are going to make money off of it. Hint: It isn't me or you or anyone else here, so stop being their stooge.
 
2012-04-16 10:25:29 AM
There ought to be a Troll moratorium for the first few pages of commentary.
 
2012-04-16 10:25:36 AM

cryinoutloud: But the U.S. remains ill-equipped for large-scale Arctic missions, according to a simulation conducted by the U.S. Naval War College. A summary released last month found the Navy is "inadequately prepared to conduct sustained maritime operations in the Arctic" because it lacks ships able to operate in or near Arctic ice, support facilities and adequate communications.

Oh no, we're going to have to beef up the defense budget. Obviously this territory is ours by RIGHT.


Well Canada, Russia, Norway, and Greenland all think they have signficant standing under international law to claim portions of the passage because it runs along the border of their countries. America seems to think THEY can claim it because they have the largest (only, really) Navy in the world and because fark you, that's why (well, that and Alaska)
 
2012-04-16 10:25:38 AM

Magorn: So a real life "battle of the five armies" then? You gotta figure the US and Canada would be on the same side, but who else is gonna team up?


I have this feeling that Russia will be the winner. So, if you want to win, team up with Russia.

/just a guess
 
2012-04-16 10:25:42 AM
Maybe you should all check out the Billy Connolly documentary that is all about a boat trip through the NW passage.

It is called Journey to the Edge of the World (2009)
 
2012-04-16 10:25:54 AM
Seven countries border the Arctic circle, and one more (Iceland) has water rights that encompass part of it.

Sweden doesn't have a port on the circle, but does have a navy and water access.
 
2012-04-16 10:26:19 AM

Yellow Beard: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: duffblue: Are we talking Manhattan under two feet of water? I have only heard that we will lose coastal towns, but I highly doubt that they would just let NYC sink.

Depends. NYC might lose the edge of Manhattan with a 1 ft. increase in the sea level, but South Florida could be wiped out entirely.

you say that like it's a bad thing


Well, I'd feel bad for the alligators.
 
2012-04-16 10:26:22 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.


I love how people try to look at complex things in simplistic ways and ignore the things they don't wish to consider because it goes against their preconceptions.

"Right now we believe that it could be due to a very specific regional climate over Karakoram because there have been meteorological measurements showing increased winter precipitation," said the lead researcher. "But that's just a guess at this stage." But scientists emphasize that, whatever the reason, the trend in the Karakoram range is at odds with most of the greater Himalayas, where the rate of ice loss has doubled since the 1980s on 10 of the most regularly measured glaciers.

Link (new window)
 
2012-04-16 10:26:28 AM

KimNorth: exatron: jehovahs witness protection: Let's ignore the fact that many of the planet's glaciers are GROWING.
Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.

Citation needed.

Really you need a citation that the climate has changed over and over on this planet??

Did you sleep during 3rd grade science?


According to guyinjeep16 the peer-reviewed journals of 97% of climate scientists climate hasn't changed due to natural causes.

Maybe it is because in 3rd grade science we don't get to read those peer-reviewed journals.
 
2012-04-16 10:26:56 AM

guyinjeep16:
Surely you have considered that 97% of climate scientists have considered your view on natural changes?


argumentum ad populum verecundiam

30 Helens agree that this is a bad way to argue your point. (mostly because you're arguing that the people who get paid when they claim that there are problems agree that there are problems)

/please note that I did not attack your appeal to peer reviewed journals. I assume that there would be measurements in those papers.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-04-16 10:27:06 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: exatron:

Climate has changed on the third rock from the Sun for many millennium without being affected by humans.

Citation needed.

agreed, need a citation on that.
the climate has NEVER changed before man and industrialization
It has been totally 100% the same until about 1850 when we started using the devil juice from the dinosaurs to power those infernal machines we built.
Get rid of all machines and climate will once again never change.


You don't know what non sequitur means, do you?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-04-16 10:28:28 AM

Eapoe6: Our Carbon Dioxide has spread to the other planets in the solar system!

The Mars ice caps are melting too. If we don't base a global currency bases on carbon taxes immediately, Venus will actually melt.

Just tell me what I have to pay to stop the weather. Sacrifice virgins to the volcano god, pay carbon taxes, same thing. :)


I think even the pro-trolls have given up on that one.
 
2012-04-16 10:28:48 AM

Silly Jesus: An excellent interactive map of all U.S. coastal areas by State and what they will look like in 2020 (PBS pops)


bookmarked to 8 years from now.
 
2012-04-16 10:29:56 AM
Well, it won't likely be opening this year, but it's only April.

home.comcast.net
 
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