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(NBC San Diego)   Man convinces judge his $400 traffic ticket defies physics. Geeks rock   ( nbcsandiego.com) divider line
    More: Cool, physics, Dmitri Krioukov, traffic tickets, ipad app, geeks, laws of nature  
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35137 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2012 at 10:19 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-16 11:12:24 AM  

skullkrusher: imfallen_angel: As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

the defense has to share their defense with the prosecution?


Discovery phase of a trial (new window)

You don't have to share your defense, but you have to share any material facts you plan to call into evidence.

I've never heard of this being enforced in TRAFFIC COURT, though.
 
2012-04-16 11:12:24 AM  
"I'm not a cop. I'm a physics professor!"

/the physics of being dick
 
2012-04-16 11:12:45 AM  
Appropriate Futurama reference
 
2012-04-16 11:13:14 AM  
Physics proves cops are liars and easily duped.
 
2012-04-16 11:15:30 AM  
In the end, how right you are won't matter much. For the huge majority of cases, the only thing that matters is whether the judge feels like giving you a break -- because it's going to be your word against the cop's, and they aren't going to believe you over the cop anyway.
 
2012-04-16 11:21:18 AM  

SharkTrager: I once got a ticket for running a stop sign and tried to prove the cop was lying.

When he gave me the ticket he said I "almost" stopped but not quite. As it was night, I was driving a black car and he was almost a mile away when he "saw" the infraction, I asked how he could tell, and was told he had been able to see the base of my headlights. I knew I was going to get the ticket and stopped arguing but plead not guilty.

I got to court and now the "almost stopped" became, "drove right through the stop sign". I asked again how he could tell on a dark road, at night, with a black car, from a mile away, and he gave the same answer. This time I pointed out he was perpendicular to my car at the time and my car had recessed headlights which could not have been seen from that angle. The cop then accused me of perjury and I invited both the cop and the judge to come see the car themselves and see if they could have seen what he claimed to see.The judge didn't give a damn, found me guilty and told my father not to pay my ticket for daring to question the honesty of a police officer. She then told me I was welcome to appeal to a court where "the police testimony will be given equal weight to your testimony" rather than being assumed as correct.

Dad paid it on the way out anyway because he knew the cop was lying.


Trust me, cops don't need to make shiat up to give out tickets. People drive so poorly that looking for 30 seconds will turn something up. This argument is overused and asinine.

Unless you were in a town where there are only about ten cars, the officer could have easily found something else to write a ticket for without having to resort to making things up.
 
2012-04-16 11:23:39 AM  
i.imgur.com
seems relevant.

/click to embiggen
 
2012-04-16 11:23:40 AM  

skullkrusher: imfallen_angel: As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

the defense has to share their defense with the prosecution?


I never considered going to court over a ticket to be something that would treat one like a criminal, so that the basic instructions on all the paperwork I received stating: "come on this date and bring whatever relevant information and/or witnesses" didn't indicate anything about such procedures being required and expected that it would be dealt with in court.

I've been in court many times for custody for the kids, and a witness for many other things in my life, and not once did I see or hear simple information being rejected out of court like this was.
 
2012-04-16 11:24:32 AM  
I don't think he's saying that the cop is making things up to write the ticket. More like the cop is lying to support a ticket he's already written.
 
2012-04-16 11:25:35 AM  

imfallen_angel: When I was given a ticket over a yellow light situation a few years ago, I went to court with papers, calculations, proving that I didn't break any rules.

My situation consisted (I don't have the details with me):

- the light goes yellow for (max) 3 seconds.
- the distance to cross the intersection require those full 3 seconds to make it safely across if you are going at full speed if the light changes as you are about to cross the line. (it's a 4 lanes road with lots of road damage)
- I had been forced to be almost stopped due to an illegally parked taxi (no-stop zone) right before the intersection, and having to check for traffic as I changed lane.
- the light changed just as I touched the line, while I was starting to gain some speed.
- I still hit the brakes but could see that I'd end up much to far into the intersection to be safe.
-I released the brakes and push the gas down to increase my speed so to be fast enough to make it across before the light went to red, which, of course by then, went red as I made it under.

As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

Tried to explain that I simply did not have to time to make across because of everything I've written above, the judge's verdict... the light went red before you completed the crossing, and nothing else mattered.

So I lost. The whole, "crossing when yellow is acceptable when it is not safe or possible to come to a proper stop" law went completely out the window.

I should note that I returned to the intersection that same night that I got the ticket, and the cops were staking out and going after EVERYONE that touched the road on the yellow (even took some pictures)... t'was a "for your safety" month, so they keep saying.


Had to look at your profile to see where the hell you were from. Canada has some weird laws (or you're explaining things poorly).

In the states there is a thick white line at intersections with traffic lights. It's called a "stop bar." If any part of your car is over the line before the light turns red then you are good to go. If you are behind the line when the light turns red and you go through then you ran the light.
 
2012-04-16 11:25:53 AM  
I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.
 
2012-04-16 11:29:43 AM  

kim jong-un: Lizardking: Bradog: A $400 ticket for a rolling stop defies reason.

That was my first thought too. WTF?

It's the problem of fine based enforcement. It adds incentive for the gov to prosecute even non dangerous infractions, fails to bother the wealthy, and takes two weeks pay from the paycheck to paycheck folks.

Worse are places like NY where they can add arbitrary fees after the fact.

I had an out of date inspection fine of $25 cost me over $100 after pleading guilty and paying. 2months after paying the 25, I got several bills for fees in the mail.

(Sucks too since the inspection lapsed while I was away for several months on business travel, first thing I did was take my truck to the service center to get it inspected. The cop pulled me over on my way there -_-)


What is a good alternative to fine based enforcement? Something that will provide as much disincentive as losing money.
 
2012-04-16 11:31:34 AM  

jumac: got a spot in a town near me the cops love. a road in town that has an on-ramp for I95 has stop light just before the on-ramp. Its a three lane road where the stop light is two lanes going straight and one crossing the road onto the on-ramp. the kicker is you have to drive forward bout 4 car lengths before you can turn onto the on-ramp form the light. So cars will stay in the straight lane go though the green lights for those 2 lanes(while turn lane is red) then cut over to the turn lane after lights and get on I95. The cops love nailing them for avoiding a red light. And the courts agree with the cops. Don't know why but they do.


You aren't very smart are you?
 
2012-04-16 11:34:04 AM  

skullkrusher: imfallen_angel: As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

the defense has to share their defense with the prosecution?


DISCOVERY - Part of the pre-trial litigation process during which each party requests relevant information and documents from the other side in an attempt to "discover" pertinent facts. Generally discovery devices include depositions, interogatories, requests for admissions, document production requests and requests for inspection.

You can't just bring in a bunch of charts and graphs and other nonsense and blindside the prosecution who has no chance to study it to refute it.
 
2012-04-16 11:34:33 AM  

imfallen_angel: skullkrusher: imfallen_angel: As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

the defense has to share their defense with the prosecution?

I never considered going to court over a ticket to be something that would treat one like a criminal, so that the basic instructions on all the paperwork I received stating: "come on this date and bring whatever relevant information and/or witnesses" didn't indicate anything about such procedures being required and expected that it would be dealt with in court.

I've been in court many times for custody for the kids, and a witness for many other things in my life, and not once did I see or hear simple information being rejected out of court like this was.


Technically speaking, an infraction is the lowest public (criminal) offense in California, being below misdemeanors. Unless otherwise stated, the same laws and rules apply, however discovery issues (normally brought against the State/officer since only the prosecutor, who isn't required to show up, is responsible for it) are handled at the time of the trial by allowing the other party to view the information.
 
2012-04-16 11:37:42 AM  

The Banana Thug: I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.


That judge must not have been very smart then, because you were still following too closely if the braking of the car in front of you caused you to get that close, sudden or otherwise.
 
2012-04-16 11:38:06 AM  
Wow, this story is making the round about 15 days too late.

This was an April fools joke.

Not to mention that the acceleration curve the guy showed is not possible with the car he is driving....unless he's in an F-15.
 
2012-04-16 11:40:16 AM  
Good thing the guy wasn't a Muslim. Did you know the Koran doesn't even mention angles and physics? It's impossible for those racists to even comprehend physics, it goes against their religion. I doubt those religious idiot Muslims can even comprehend the words in the article. Science FTW! Evolution! Abortion!

/You probably wouldn't be pissed if I spoke on Christians instead of Muslims.
//Ninja, not troll.
 
2012-04-16 11:40:29 AM  

heypete: [i.imgur.com image 640x305]
seems relevant.

/click to embiggen


Holy shiat, a funny webcomic.
 
2012-04-16 11:43:42 AM  

Silly Jesus: The Banana Thug: I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.

That judge must not have been very smart then, because you were still following too closely if the braking of the car in front of you caused you to get that close, sudden or otherwise.


my thoughts, exactly. this part of learning the rules of the road to test for your license seems to often be forgotten...there is zero reason that you should ever find your car hitting the back of a car you have been following behind.

keep a proper distance to allow for reaction time in case they slow or stop suddenly in front of you. wet/icy? keep a GREATER distance than you would under normal circumstances.

now, if they whip in front of you, invading your reaction space, and slam on their brakes, of course you can't stop in time. this is the only time you can have an acceptable reason to dent someone's rear bumper.
 
2012-04-16 11:46:37 AM  
I got a ticket for a failier to yield at a 4way. When I went to court to fight it the cop said all he remembers that it was normal rutean stop. He also said he did have any paper work with him. Next thing the prosecuter said was that the state wishes to move for a dismissal of the case.
 
2012-04-16 11:47:08 AM  

skullkrusher: imfallen_angel: As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

the defense has to share their defense with the prosecution?


#include <std_disc/ianal.h>

Yup. Both sides are supposed to know what the other side's argument is going to be so they can prepare a rebuttal. Convictions have been overturned because the prosecution failed to make material disclosures to the defense in advance, and it stands to reason that the obligation goes both ways.

This normally doesn't come up in traffic court, but then, in traffic court the case usually just goes

Cop: He done it.
Judge: I agree. Pay up. NEXT!
 
2012-04-16 11:47:29 AM  

bungle_jr: Silly Jesus: The Banana Thug: I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.

That judge must not have been very smart then, because you were still following too closely if the braking of the car in front of you caused you to get that close, sudden or otherwise.

my thoughts, exactly. this part of learning the rules of the road to test for your license seems to often be forgotten...there is zero reason that you should ever find your car hitting the back of a car you have been following behind.

keep a proper distance to allow for reaction time in case they slow or stop suddenly in front of you. wet/icy? keep a GREATER distance than you would under normal circumstances.

now, if they whip in front of you, invading your reaction space, and slam on their brakes, of course you can't stop in time. this is the only time you can have an acceptable reason to dent someone's rear bumper.


So, according to you, if I'm in front of you on the highway and brake suddenly, you hit me for whatever reason, you are going to be responsible for getting me a new car/fixing my car?
 
2012-04-16 11:49:21 AM  

Silly Jesus: Had to look at your profile to see where the hell you were from. Canada has some weird laws (or you're explaining things poorly).

In the states there is a thick white line at intersections with traffic lights. It's called a "stop bar." If any part of your car is over the line before the light turns red then you are good to go. If you are behind the line when the light turns red and you go through then you ran the light.


That's also always been my belief (and what I learned when I got my driver's license a few decades ago, but...

Wiki: Jurisdictions differ somewhat on how to deal with "red light running" - attempts by motorists to race to an intersection while facing a yellow light, in an attempt to beat the red. In some locales, as long as the light is yellow when the motorist enters the intersection, no offense has been committed; in others, if the light turns red at any time before the motorist clears the intersection, then an offense occurs.

But in many places, yellow means "stop", and not "prepare to stop" (as the red is about to come).

And as usual, I seldom see anyone stop on the yellow, but as my friend who's an ex-cop told me... they would be given a task at some point during the month where they HAD to give a quota of tickets for a very specific offense.

And this fits the bill, I was just at the wrong time, wrong place, under the worse scenario.
 
2012-04-16 11:54:26 AM  

Zimmy:
So, according to you, if I'm in front of you on the highway and brake suddenly, you hit me for whatever reason, you are going to be responsible for getting me a new car/fixing my car?


Yes, how the hell did you pass your drivers license test. Haven't you seen this scam before? There are groups that target trucks and do this all the time.
 
2012-04-16 12:02:48 PM  

Mithiwithi: skullkrusher: imfallen_angel: As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

the defense has to share their defense with the prosecution?

#include <std_disc/ianal.h>

Yup. Both sides are supposed to know what the other side's argument is going to be so they can prepare a rebuttal. Convictions have been overturned because the prosecution failed to make material disclosures to the defense in advance, and it stands to reason that the obligation goes both ways.

This normally doesn't come up in traffic court, but then, in traffic court the case usually just goes

Cop: He done it.
Judge: I agree. Pay up. NEXT!


A lot of times it goes:

Cop: *not present*
Judge: Congrats you lucky bastard... No ticket!
 
2012-04-16 12:04:22 PM  

Zimmy: bungle_jr: Silly Jesus: The Banana Thug: I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.

That judge must not have been very smart then, because you were still following too closely if the braking of the car in front of you caused you to get that close, sudden or otherwise.

my thoughts, exactly. this part of learning the rules of the road to test for your license seems to often be forgotten...there is zero reason that you should ever find your car hitting the back of a car you have been following behind.

keep a proper distance to allow for reaction time in case they slow or stop suddenly in front of you. wet/icy? keep a GREATER distance than you would under normal circumstances.

now, if they whip in front of you, invading your reaction space, and slam on their brakes, of course you can't stop in time. this is the only time you can have an acceptable reason to dent someone's rear bumper.

So, according to you, if I'm in front of you on the highway and brake suddenly, you hit me for whatever reason, you are going to be responsible for getting me a new car/fixing my car?


clarification for folks like you who take common sense away from statements on the internet: "zero reason" in my statement above should read "almost zero reason"

according to most state/local driving laws, if i'm behind you and not allowing a reasonable stopping distance in case you brake in front of me, yes this would be true...i'd be found to be responsible for the wreck. however, if it can be reasonably proven that the person in front stopped and had no reason to (ie, no traffic or road hazzards in front of him), i've heard it is possible that in such cases the person in front could be cited on reckless driving charges for intentionally causing the incident.

most rear-ending cases i see along the highways are obvious results of the back car not allowing enough distance to stop in a case of the front car slowing/stopping.
 
2012-04-16 12:04:47 PM  

kidgenius: Wow, this story is making the round about 15 days too late.

This was an April fools joke.

Not to mention that the acceleration curve the guy showed is not possible with the car he is driving....unless he's in an F-15.


This.
 
2012-04-16 12:07:32 PM  

Zimmy: bungle_jr: Silly Jesus: The Banana Thug: I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.

That judge must not have been very smart then, because you were still following too closely if the braking of the car in front of you caused you to get that close, sudden or otherwise.

my thoughts, exactly. this part of learning the rules of the road to test for your license seems to often be forgotten...there is zero reason that you should ever find your car hitting the back of a car you have been following behind.

keep a proper distance to allow for reaction time in case they slow or stop suddenly in front of you. wet/icy? keep a GREATER distance than you would under normal circumstances.

now, if they whip in front of you, invading your reaction space, and slam on their brakes, of course you can't stop in time. this is the only time you can have an acceptable reason to dent someone's rear bumper.

So, according to you, if I'm in front of you on the highway and brake suddenly, you hit me for whatever reason, you are going to be responsible for getting me a new car/fixing my car?


That's how the law works. Lawful driving requires that you leave a large enough distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you to be able to safely stop without colliding.
 
2012-04-16 12:07:49 PM  
Lame story, Bro:

Got pulled over for speeding a couple of weeks ago. First time in 20 years. Cop asked if I knew what the speed limit was (65), then asked me if I knew how fast I was traveling. Being the smarta$$ that I am, and because I already knew I was getting a ticket, I told him "on a planetary basis, about 69 thousand miles an hour". He did not find that amusing.

/let me go with a warning
 
2012-04-16 12:11:51 PM  

imfallen_angel: Silly Jesus: Had to look at your profile to see where the hell you were from. Canada has some weird laws (or you're explaining things poorly).

In the states there is a thick white line at intersections with traffic lights. It's called a "stop bar." If any part of your car is over the line before the light turns red then you are good to go. If you are behind the line when the light turns red and you go through then you ran the light.

That's also always been my belief (and what I learned when I got my driver's license a few decades ago, but...

Wiki: Jurisdictions differ somewhat on how to deal with "red light running" - attempts by motorists to race to an intersection while facing a yellow light, in an attempt to beat the red. In some locales, as long as the light is yellow when the motorist enters the intersection, no offense has been committed; in others, if the light turns red at any time before the motorist clears the intersection, then an offense occurs.

But in many places, yellow means "stop", and not "prepare to stop" (as the red is about to come).

And as usual, I seldom see anyone stop on the yellow, but as my friend who's an ex-cop told me... they would be given a task at some point during the month where they HAD to give a quota of tickets for a very specific offense.

And this fits the bill, I was just at the wrong time, wrong place, under the worse scenario.


Failure to clear the intersection is different from running the light. The Wiki article seems to be equating or maybe confusing the two.

If you get past the stop bar while the light is yellow, but then don't clear the intersection before the light turns red you have technically not run the light but you have obstructed the intersection.
 
2012-04-16 12:22:29 PM  

Skyd1v: Lame story, Bro:

Got pulled over for speeding a couple of weeks ago. First time in 20 years. Cop asked if I knew what the speed limit was (65), then asked me if I knew how fast I was traveling. Being the smarta$$ that I am, and because I already knew I was getting a ticket, I told him "on a planetary basis, about 69 thousand miles an hour". He did not find that amusing.

/let me go with a warning


i got out of a speeding ticket in 2003 in little rock, ar. i'd been driving about 120 mph on the freeway thru west little rock. for a friday night there was very little traffic in that area, and my friends and i were on our way to a movie (xmen2) at the rave. i saw a cop coming onto the road about a mile ahead of me, so i immediately slowed to about 80 mph.

cop got behind me and stopped me. knowing i was probably getting a ticket but having a current spotless record, i just thought i'd be as calm and honest as possible.
paraphrasing:
cop: what's the hurry?
me: friends and i are on our way to see xmen2, trying to make the showing starting in about 10 minutes
cop: know what the speed limit is here?
me: (after looking around) honestly no sir i do not (absolute truth, i did not know it). what, about 70?
cop: 60
me: (genuinely shocked) really? 60? i'm sorry sir, i have spent the last 4+ years stationed in germany where a road like this is, well, as fast as your car will let you go, so i thought here it was around 70.

cop looked at my license which still showed my "permanent" address as hope, ar, where i last lived before the airforce.

cop: i once worked a special training duty with the sheriff down there
me: really? jerry's a great guy! my mom works under him in the court house, and i went to school with his daughter.

cop & me: back and forth banter for a moment

cop: SLOW DOWN!!!!! and be safe, enjoy the movie

me to my friends: holy f'ing shiat my heart is about to f'ing explode!
 
2012-04-16 12:24:18 PM  
There's no surefire way to get out of a ticket (in-car), but I've found the following greatly increasing your chances:

1. Pull over as far as you can on the shoulder (gives the cop more room away from the road).
2. Roll your window down.
3. Shut your car off.
4. Put your hands where the cop can clearly see them.
5. Use the word "sir" or "ma'am" liberally.
6. Don't be an asshole.

It's like BlackJack; no way to guarantee a winning hand, but you can swing the odds to your favor.

/Actually had a cop thank me once for how I handled being pulled over.
//Still got a ticket that time.
 
2012-04-16 12:27:43 PM  

Silly Jesus: Zimmy: bungle_jr: Silly Jesus: The Banana Thug: I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.

That judge must not have been very smart then, because you were still following too closely if the braking of the car in front of you caused you to get that close, sudden or otherwise.

my thoughts, exactly. this part of learning the rules of the road to test for your license seems to often be forgotten...there is zero reason that you should ever find your car hitting the back of a car you have been following behind.

keep a proper distance to allow for reaction time in case they slow or stop suddenly in front of you. wet/icy? keep a GREATER distance than you would under normal circumstances.

now, if they whip in front of you, invading your reaction space, and slam on their brakes, of course you can't stop in time. this is the only time you can have an acceptable reason to dent someone's rear bumper.

So, according to you, if I'm in front of you on the highway and brake suddenly, you hit me for whatever reason, you are going to be responsible for getting me a new car/fixing my car?

That's how the law works. Lawful driving requires that you leave a large enough distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you to be able to safely stop without colliding.


What really pisses me off about driving on the highway are the people who see a nice space between my car and the car in front of me, and assume that I left it there so they can squeeze themselves into it.
 
2012-04-16 12:28:18 PM  

Silly Jesus: Failure to clear the intersection is different from running the light. The Wiki article seems to be equating or maybe confusing the two.

If you get past the stop bar while the light is yellow, but then don't clear the intersection before the light turns red you have technically not run the light but you have obstructed the intersection.


Well, as I stated... it was the worse scenario, cops or not, the illegally parked taxi caused the chain of events that led me into a bad position where I passed the lane just as the light changed to yellow, but not having the speed to clear the intersection before it would turn red, nor couldn't stop without ending up in the middle of the first lane. (nor could have stopped and backed up as the traffic has caught up and no space left for me to back into).

The cop should have given the ticket to the illegally parked taxi for causing this crap, but, oh well.

For not the cops staking out that very intersection to ticket anyone going through the yellow, everything would have been fine, but after seeing them go after 3 more cars that went through the yellow (and not one that did it in a way that I would have considered an issue) the very same evening, I was screwed over, no matter what.

I simply learned that yellow lights are a very shady area of the traffic laws and cops can use it to their advantage for when it's time to screw people over for quotas, so I tend to be extra careful about them... not the lights (I know that I do them quite correctly), but the cops.
 
2012-04-16 12:28:49 PM  
I usualy stop pretty quickly to make sure that anyone observing can see the front end of my truck dip down from the force of the stop... Rolling stoppers get on my nerves...
 
2012-04-16 12:29:30 PM  

FoxKelfonne: Silly Jesus: Zimmy: bungle_jr: Silly Jesus: The Banana Thug: I made a Flash video once to get out of a tailgating ticket. The video showed that I was following another car and when we came upon a police motorcycle, the car in front of my braked suddenly (a natural reaction when one sees the police). When the policeman turned around at that time, he thought he saw me tailgating, instead of the other driver overreacting by slowing down abruptly. Got out of the ticket, but the policeman sure was an asshole.

That judge must not have been very smart then, because you were still following too closely if the braking of the car in front of you caused you to get that close, sudden or otherwise.

my thoughts, exactly. this part of learning the rules of the road to test for your license seems to often be forgotten...there is zero reason that you should ever find your car hitting the back of a car you have been following behind.

keep a proper distance to allow for reaction time in case they slow or stop suddenly in front of you. wet/icy? keep a GREATER distance than you would under normal circumstances.

now, if they whip in front of you, invading your reaction space, and slam on their brakes, of course you can't stop in time. this is the only time you can have an acceptable reason to dent someone's rear bumper.

So, according to you, if I'm in front of you on the highway and brake suddenly, you hit me for whatever reason, you are going to be responsible for getting me a new car/fixing my car?

That's how the law works. Lawful driving requires that you leave a large enough distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you to be able to safely stop without colliding.

What really pisses me off about driving on the highway are the people who see a nice space between my car and the car in front of me, and assume that I left it there so they can squeeze themselves into it.


yep, happens ALL the time to me...very annoying
 
2012-04-16 12:37:15 PM  

bulldg4life: My teacher said he ALMOST raised his hand and said that, if the car was moving forward and then rolled backwards, then there had to have been a point where his forward velocity was 0.


It may vary depending on the wording of the traffic laws, but I wouldn't assume that the definition of "full stop" would be satisfied by the vehicle having merely a momentary velocity of zero. It would have to remain motionless for a full second or whatever.
 
2012-04-16 12:58:18 PM  

machoprogrammer: Cops often lie to meet their ticket quota.


They're not quotas; they're goals.
 
2012-04-16 12:59:31 PM  
Back in my youth, I was driving home from work at Blockbuster, and going into a setting sun. My car had some dust on the windshield because it's San Diego, and we never get rain there. I pulled in the left turn lane, behind about 4 other cars. The light turned green and I went. Halfway through the intersection the angle of the light changes just enough that my windshield is no longer reflecting the dust on my car. I see that the light is very red, and I'm certain I made a shocked face. The motorcycle cop waiting at the light going the other direction (whose green light I'd just gone through) pulled me over, as well as the two cars in front of me. He came over to talk to me first, and I very honestly told him what had happened (that the dust on my windshield was reflected by the setting sun, and that I just went through the intersection assuming the light would stay green for all 5 cars, and that it wasn't until I was in the middle of the intersection that I saw it was a red light). He must have seen the look on my face when I realized it was red, because he let me go with a very friendly "just be careful!" warning. Of course, the fact that the light turned red after only 2 of the 5 cars went through it is total bullshiat.
 
2012-04-16 01:03:46 PM  
If I plaster my car with physics bumper stickers and perhaps add a personalized license plate indicating that I'm a physicist, do you think cops would be dissuaded from ticketing me?

\clean driving record, for what it's worth
 
2012-04-16 01:13:41 PM  

JPINFV: Bradog: A $400 ticket for a rolling stop defies reason.

I believe that a stop sign ticket carries a $100 base fine. Then us Californians gets to add a 20% assessment and a penalty assessment of $28 for every $10 in the base fine, then we get to add $70 in court costs, then the county can add things like court house bonds and such to fines. Unfortunately, it's all statutory, so the judges aren't supposed to lower it, even if they do from time to time. Of course if you do traffic school, it's another $50 or so for the state plus what ever the company charges.

A speeding ticket for 1-15 over is about $230. Even a cell phone ticket tops $100 just because of the fees and assessments.



A texting ticket is $159 per the Amber Alert signs.

Cops: "B-b-b-but we don't have quotas! Handing out ticket$$$$$ i$$$$$$$$ all about public $$$$$$$$$$$afety!!"


Sadly, this insane cash grab is true. It's called the "California Uniform Bail and Penalty Schedule."

In all honesty, how can a judge be impartial when a big chunk of the money to be collected goes directly to court house construction?

Traffic tickets are one of the most corrupt methods of revenue generation out there. The main way to combat the situation is: if you have the time, fight every ticket, every time. Worst thing you can do is just pay the fine - it takes little to no court resources (in fact, many courts have automated phone or Internet payment systems) and the points go on your record, causing 3 years of insurance hikes and bringing you a step closer to losing your license. Traffic school is a good option if you don't have time to go to court (or you committed the offense far from home) and you don't want your insurance rates upped.

Best option: Fight it. Clog the court system and get ticket writing cops off the street and into the courtroom (or not; in CA, officer no-show is an automatic dismissal!) Usually, the judge will let you attend T/S anyway if you lose the case in court.
 
2012-04-16 01:21:58 PM  

imfallen_angel: skullkrusher: imfallen_angel: As the court started, I pulled out my papers and diagrams, and the prosecution looked at the judge, stated that she never was given any of this information, so everything I had was dismissed, made me a nervous wreck, unprepared to respond easily.

the defense has to share their defense with the prosecution?

I never considered going to court over a ticket to be something that would treat one like a criminal, so that the basic instructions on all the paperwork I received stating: "come on this date and bring whatever relevant information and/or witnesses" didn't indicate anything about such procedures being required and expected that it would be dealt with in court.

I've been in court many times for custody for the kids, and a witness for many other things in my life, and not once did I see or hear simple information being rejected out of court like this was.


I was on unemployment for about 4 months years ago, and they messed up one of my checks by about $100 that I had cashed. They setup an over the phone court hearing to determine what would happen... I was not allowed to read my written statement over the phone because I did not submit it first. I was soooo farking pissed.
 
2012-04-16 01:23:23 PM  
Or a judge just said fark it when he saw that the guy was a Physicist who just wrote a 4 page paper on angular momentum to explain his defense.
 
2012-04-16 01:35:43 PM  

Uncle Pooky: There's no surefire way to get out of a ticket (in-car), but I've found the following greatly increasing your chances:

1. Pull over as far as you can on the shoulder (gives the cop more room away from the road).
2. Roll your window down.
3. Shut your car off.
4. Put your hands where the cop can clearly see them.
5. Use the word "sir" or "ma'am" liberally.
6. Don't be an asshole.

It's like BlackJack; no way to guarantee a winning hand, but you can swing the odds to your favor.

/Actually had a cop thank me once for how I handled being pulled over.
//Still got a ticket that time.


your forgot to put on your hazard lights and remove your keys from the ignition and place them on your dash... I use this system too, makes the cops much more friendly... Although I haven't been pulled over in a long time.
 
2012-04-16 01:41:48 PM  

Maul555: your forgot to put on your hazard lights and remove your keys from the ignition and place them on your dash... I use this system too, makes the cops much more friendly... Although I haven't been pulled over in a long time.


I don't do the key thing, but I do telegraph my every movement, telling him that my registration's in the dash, reaching into my pocket, etc. Warnings, last three pull overs.
 
2012-04-16 01:42:08 PM  

Silly Jesus: Trust me, cops don't need to make shiat up to give out tickets. People drive so poorly that looking for 30 seconds will turn something up. This argument is overused and asinine.

Unless you were in a town where there are only about ten cars, the officer could have easily found something else to write a ticket for without having to resort to making things up.


11 O'clock at night, zero traffic.

Cops will absolutely lie to justify a ticket.
 
2012-04-16 01:44:08 PM  

kim jong-un: I got the cop to admit his position when he claimed I ran a redlight.

I told him he couldnt see the light or my car from that location.

The judge, lived 50' from that location and agreed with me (cue angel choir). Oh how I wish the cop was tried for perjury.


This judge had a reputation that any time a male under 25 went before her they were guilty. I never knew anyone in that group who was let off. Meanwhile, a friend of mine who was a female ran a red light in to a freaking Frito Lay truck and got off because "the wreck must have been scary enough".
 
2012-04-16 01:53:14 PM  
The funny thing about government. The same rigid over regulatory bullshiat that works against you, works just as well against them.

I have a better get out of a ticket story recently. Pulled over for speeding, cop was a dick, I was a dick to both him and his superior (who was also a dick); including making them wait an hour while I took a phone call. Filed a discovery request which wasn't fulfilled and did a trial by declaration and beat my ticket. That small victory felt good and saved me $287 bucks.

On the ticket, pulled over in a 35 for doing 49. Was pulled over (well) in a 40 doing ~43. Wouldn't answer where he clocked me, what he clocked me at nor what with.

The trial by declaration was simply stated and very polite. Requested the case be dropped due to my discovery request not being fulfilled and the officer not answering my questions (and listed off the questions I asked him). Basically if they couldn't provide me with this basic information, the judgement would be baseless and on opinion. Other key thing is, don't give your opinion, don't give information. Best thing you can do is ask questions.

... other cool thing about trial by declaration (at least in CA) other than a nice time saver. If I lost, I could then set an in person trial.

Also won a $50 bet that I'd beat the ticket. lol
 
2012-04-16 02:03:03 PM  
My best court experience ever.

So the court does it so they run through a specific police officer's tickets all at once (one afternoon blocked out for the cop).

The cop's lead off ticket was a nurse he gave a ticket for doing 38 in 35. The officer was a dick to her. The judge is just sitting there giving the cop this "You have to be shiatting me..." look. The cop is completely unaware of this and goes on being a dick.

The judge pretty much threw everything out to spite the cop. A whole months worth of tickets cleaned off in 3 hours.
 
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