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(ESPN)   Hockey 101: If you throw a high hit to the head during the course of a play, that's a three game suspension. If you headlock an opponent unwilling to fight and then sucker punch him eight times to the face, that's only one   (espn.go.com) divider line 201
    More: Asinine, Matt Carkner, Daniel Alfredsson, sucker punches, Marian Gaborik, John Tortorella, Brad Richards, game misconduct, suspensions  
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3348 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Apr 2012 at 11:32 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-16 11:33:26 AM  
Dammit Pronger!
 
2012-04-16 11:34:09 AM  
Weirdly there have been no suspension yet in the Blues/Sharks series. It thought that at least 2 or 3 guys from both teams would be suspended after Saturday's game.
 
2012-04-16 11:34:48 AM  
The leaping charge hit is going to do a lot more damage than a frenzy of punches, most of which hit the helmet or glance off the shoulder pad anyways.

NHL actually got this one right.
 
2012-04-16 11:35:14 AM  
For the record - it was 5 times to the body.

And the 'high hit to the head' was a flagrant elbow.
 
2012-04-16 11:42:44 AM  
And if you slam a guy's head into the glass repeatedly, you'll get a small fine.
 
2012-04-16 11:43:03 AM  

Treygreen13: Dammit Pronger!


I thought it was "Damnit Chloe"!!
 
2012-04-16 11:43:41 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Weirdly there have been no suspension yet in the Blues/Sharks series. It thought that at least 2 or 3 guys from both teams would be suspended after Saturday's game.


Burns at least should have been fined
 
2012-04-16 11:43:50 AM  
What do you get for a cross-check to the throat followed by a punch to the back of the head?
 
2012-04-16 11:44:08 AM  
And being a douche named Rosby means little Garry makes you breakfast each morning.
 
2012-04-16 11:44:19 AM  
Fark you Shanny!

/not a fan of either team
//just sick of Shanny
 
2012-04-16 11:44:59 AM  
You'll love the last line inthis (new window)
 
2012-04-16 11:45:10 AM  

Bermuda59: What do you get for a cross-check to the throat followed by a punch to the back of the head?


We'll soon find out

@RealKyper #Penguins Neal will have 2 separate #NHL discipline hearings Tues 10am. Asham will follow with in person @ 11am
 
2012-04-16 11:45:37 AM  
And apparently cross-checking someone in the throat is 0 games, or has Shanahan said his ruling on Asham will come down later today?
 
2012-04-16 11:46:30 AM  
I've covered this in the other thread, at this point what's done is done.
 
P0e
2012-04-16 11:47:04 AM  
Shannahan had a great preseason. Then, once the season started, he started listening to all the whining from EVERYONE, and stopped being a hard-ass. Now, he sucks. Consistent suspensions for the same infractions is something he has GOT to work towards. Also, he has got to stop using injury as a determinant for a suspension. Whether or not someone gets injured, if you do something stupid, dangerous, or reckless, you should get the same penalty.
 
2012-04-16 11:47:30 AM  

Bermuda59: What do you get for a cross-check to the throat followed by a punch to the back of the head?


A pat on the back for valid retribution against Shea Weber?
 
2012-04-16 11:48:54 AM  

meanmutton: And if you slam a guy's head into the glass repeatedly, you'll get a small fine.


Unfortunately, $2500 is the most the NHL can fine a player under the CBA. In my mind, that number needs to be way, way higher.

Klivian: And apparently cross-checking someone in the throat is 0 games, or has Shanahan said his ruling on Asham will come down later today?


Asham has an in-person hearing today.
 
2012-04-16 11:49:06 AM  

meanmutton: And if you slam a guy's head into the glass repeatedly, you'll get a small fine.


Shanahan seems to dole out suspensions based on injury received, and as bad as that attack on Zetterberg was it ended up with him being perfectly fine. I agree Weber should have been suspended, but that's Shanahan's policy. I think he's an idiot, honestly.
 
2012-04-16 11:49:26 AM  
Shanny didn't realize allof the politics involved in this

the truth is, the NHL is like a government, they declare to the public they want to crackdown but privately lobby against it

I can't blame Shanny, hes just the fall guy
 
2012-04-16 11:51:20 AM  

Klippoklondike: meanmutton: And if you slam a guy's head into the glass repeatedly, you'll get a small fine.

Shanahan seems to dole out suspensions based on injury received, and as bad as that attack on Zetterberg was it ended up with him being perfectly fine. I agree Weber should have been suspended, but that's Shanahan's policy. I think he's an idiot, honestly.


Well, Weber got it worse. He had to deal with Todd Bertuzzi.

Yes, THAT Todd Bertuzzi. You knew that was coming.
 
2012-04-16 11:53:42 AM  

Klippoklondike: Shanahan seems to dole out suspensions based on injury received


Which is so astronomically asinine, I almost have to applaud that kind of stupidity.

Just to recap, with their apparent line of reasoning, you could pull out a gun and attempt to shoot an opposing player, but if you miss it's cool, you'll just get a fine because he's not seriously hurt.
 
kab
2012-04-16 11:55:26 AM  

rag819: Unfortunately, $2500 is the most the NHL can fine a player under the CBA. In my mind, that number needs to be way, way higher.


I agree. Especially when coaches who run their mouths (even if they're right) can be fined far more than that.
 
2012-04-16 11:57:05 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Bermuda59: What do you get for a cross-check to the throat followed by a punch to the back of the head?

A pat on the back for valid retribution against Shea Weber?


Clean hit on the boards vs stick to the throat and a head slam on the ice

Methinks those scales aren't going to balance out...
 
2012-04-16 11:59:19 AM  

meddleRPI: The leaping charge hit is going to do a lot more damage than a frenzy of punches, most of which hit the helmet or glance off the shoulder pad anyways.

NHL actually got this one right.


I have a problem because it wasn't intentional. Hagelin has never been shown to play like this, there have been quotes by both him and Alfredsson about how it was an inadvertent high elbow caused by him trying to finish his check. Meanwhile Carkner intentionally jumps Boyle and Weber grabs Zetterberg's head and slams it into the glass and both get off lighter. So the lesson here is if you're going to rough up an opposing player do it purposefully instead of accidentally - which, you know, is only the sort of behavior that led to Bertuzzi injuring Moore back in 2004. If Hagelin deserves a 3 game suspension, then Carkner and Weber deserve at least as much.
 
2012-04-16 12:02:21 PM  

roncofooddehydrator: meddleRPI: The leaping charge hit is going to do a lot more damage than a frenzy of punches, most of which hit the helmet or glance off the shoulder pad anyways.

NHL actually got this one right.

I have a problem because it wasn't intentional. Hagelin has never been shown to play like this, there have been quotes by both him and Alfredsson about how it was an inadvertent high elbow caused by him trying to finish his check. Meanwhile Carkner intentionally jumps Boyle and Weber grabs Zetterberg's head and slams it into the glass and both get off lighter. So the lesson here is if you're going to rough up an opposing player do it purposefully instead of accidentally - which, you know, is only the sort of behavior that led to Bertuzzi injuring Moore back in 2004. If Hagelin deserves a 3 game suspension, then Carkner and Weber deserve at least as much.


It was intentional though (the elbow).
He had his arms out and was looking at the head. It's exactly the play they're trying to remove.

Carkner jumps Boyle after Boyle was still attempting to take liberties to start the game. Boyle tries to shove Carkner away, at which point Carkner drops gloves and knocks him out cold for a second on a hit to the jaw. Then Carkner got his suspension for the body hits after Boyle was on the ice.

Consider also Carkner essentially got a game suspension by being kicked out (and the fact it's normally not a suspendable action... plenty of instances of this happening through the season with other teams without any supplementary discipline). Ottawa had to play the entire game (which went to OT) with 5D.

The one Shannahan screwed up on was Weber - and now he's trying to correct things. He got these two right.
 
2012-04-16 12:04:18 PM  

meddleRPI: The leaping charge hit is going to do a lot more damage than a frenzy of punches, most of which hit the helmet or glance off the shoulder pad anyways.

NHL actually got this one right.


you have your head up your ass- one was premeditated assault- they other was high elbows- like that never happens. Hagelin's a clean player- 24 pim ALL season- 1 game fine, but 3 is excessive

Callahan took an elbow like that but stayed in the game/ no suspension


/Boyle deserved to get roughed up though
 
2012-04-16 12:08:22 PM  
Ice hockey will be a shiat tier sport until they ban the fighting.
 
2012-04-16 12:11:05 PM  

Bermuda59: What do you get for a cross-check to the throat followed by a punch to the back of the head?


If your team is from Pittsburgh then you automatically with the Stanley Cup.
 
kab
2012-04-16 12:14:44 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Ice hockey will be a shiat tier sport until they ban the fighting.


Then stop watching.
 
2012-04-16 12:15:03 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Weirdly there have been no suspension yet in the Blues/Sharks series. It thought that at least 2 or 3 guys from both teams would be suspended after Saturday's game.


Nah, the refs will just bring down the hammer tonight in SJ.
 
2012-04-16 12:15:41 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Ice hockey will be a shiat tier sport until they ban the fighting.


Fighting is banned. It's a 5 minute penalty.
 
2012-04-16 12:18:03 PM  

Deadfeznt: meddleRPI: The leaping charge hit is going to do a lot more damage than a frenzy of punches, most of which hit the helmet or glance off the shoulder pad anyways.

NHL actually got this one right.

you have your head up your ass- one was premeditated assault- they other was high elbows- like that never happens. Hagelin's a clean player- 24 pim ALL season- 1 game fine, but 3 is excessive

Callahan took an elbow like that but stayed in the game/ no suspension


/Boyle deserved to get roughed up though


Shannahan said it was a shoulder and it was nothing like Hagelin'shiat.

You can also clearly see Phillips had his arm tucked in and was leading with shoulder - going for shoulder, and that Callahan was bent over with his head just above the runners at the time of the hit. Typical hockey play gone bad and Phillips got the proper two minutes for it (though it should've been boarding instead of elbowing).
 
2012-04-16 12:19:41 PM  

Doc Daneeka: HotWingConspiracy: Ice hockey will be a shiat tier sport until they ban the fighting.

Fighting is banned. It's a 5 minute penalty.


i709.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-16 12:21:45 PM  
As a Rangers fan, I think the punishment is appropriate for Hagelin, but not enough for Carkner.

If Hagelin missed and hit Alfredsson lower, like in the neck, that could have been a really bad injury.

Carkner's overt aggression works against him. Because he's the little pussy that he is, his punches are like tickling bullet proof glass with a flower. He didn't hurt Boyle, you can't really do that much damage with just your fists (unless you're a pro boxer/MMA type), especially Pussy Boy Carkner's fists. But he absolutely had malicious intent. He should get at least 3 games.

If I were Pussy Boy Carkner, I would be aware of where Dubinsky was at all times for the rest of the series.
 
2012-04-16 12:22:05 PM  
Just saw that Asham got a match penalty for his cross-check. Can somebody explain the difference between a match penalty and a game misconduct?
 
2012-04-16 12:23:10 PM  

Caeldan: It was intentional though (the elbow).
He had his arms out and was looking at the head. It's exactly the play they're trying to remove.


Look at 10 seconds into this video. To me it looks like he's finishing his check, yes his elbow is a little high, but by bad luck the way Alfredsson goes to defend himself he ends up getting hit in the head.

Anyway, I'm not arguing against the suspension, but a high elbow to a player who sees it coming as part of a normal play is not nearly as bad as allowing Carkner to do the same thing intentionally (see this video at 1:34, where he comes flying in with his elbow raised at Boyle's head) and then follow it up by attacking with his fists. Carkner deserves at least 3 games if 3 games is the penalty for a high elbow to the head.
 
2012-04-16 12:23:28 PM  
Last night was particularly violent. The refs have to do SOMETHING to get these guys under control, or at least not actively trying to hospitalize each other on the ice. If suspensions do it, then suspend away.
 
2012-04-16 12:25:05 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Weirdly there have been no suspension yet in the Blues/Sharks series.


I'm SHOCKED this story isn't about the Blues game. I clicked the link thinking "well, I'll get to see that fight again."

Pretty excited about tonight. Last time I planned on watching a hockey game was the last Olympics.

/other than the few I've gone to, of course
 
2012-04-16 12:26:38 PM  

bottsicus: Just saw that Asham got a match penalty for his cross-check. Can somebody explain the difference between a match penalty and a game misconduct?


A match penalty is a game misconduct with the caveat that a player cannot return until a review of the league office deems it permissible. Kind of like "guilty until proven innocent".

A game misconduct comes with an automatic review, but unless supplemental discipline is levied, the player is eligible to return the following game.
 
2012-04-16 12:27:11 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Ice hockey will continue to be a shiat tier sport until awesome unless they ban the fighting.


Eff Tee Eff Why
 
2012-04-16 12:27:21 PM  

grinding_journalist: Slaves2Darkness: Weirdly there have been no suspension yet in the Blues/Sharks series.

I'm SHOCKED this story isn't about the Blues game. I clicked the link thinking "well, I'll get to see that fight again."

Pretty excited about tonight. Last time I planned on watching a hockey game was the last Olympics.

/other than the few I've gone to, of course


Prediction. Someone gets tossed 2 minutes in. Then both teams shape the f*ck up and play a clean game.

Well Thornton probably does something stupid, but it'll be hilarious at the same time.
 
2012-04-16 12:28:14 PM  

roncofooddehydrator: Caeldan: It was intentional though (the elbow).
He had his arms out and was looking at the head. It's exactly the play they're trying to remove.

Look at 10 seconds into this video. To me it looks like he's finishing his check, yes his elbow is a little high, but by bad luck the way Alfredsson goes to defend himself he ends up getting hit in the head.

Anyway, I'm not arguing against the suspension, but a high elbow to a player who sees it coming as part of a normal play is not nearly as bad as allowing Carkner to do the same thing intentionally (see this video at 1:34, where he comes flying in with his elbow raised at Boyle's head) and then follow it up by attacking with his fists. Carkner deserves at least 3 games if 3 games is the penalty for a high elbow to the head.


I think it's bad to aim at the head area for any reason, whether you protect yourself or not. You risk irreversible damage at the speed Hagelin was going. With Pussy Boy Carkner, he only has the momentum he can generate at a standstill.

I do agree with everything else.
 
2012-04-16 12:28:15 PM  

meddleRPI: A game misconduct comes with an automatic review, but unless supplemental discipline is levied, the player is eligible to return the following game.


Multiple games will result in escalating discipline.
 
2012-04-16 12:28:25 PM  

netweavr: Prediction. Someone gets tossed 2 minutes in.


I agree, but there'll be a scrap of some sort that causes the tossing- it won't be a simple hit or rough check.
 
2012-04-16 12:28:39 PM  
Subby, said opponent seemed perfectly willing to fight when he was punching a guy 60 pounds lighter than he was in the face. He's only willing to trade punches with an actual fighter when the other guy's being held back by a linesman. Susan Boyle would've fought longer.

roncofooddehydrator: meddleRPI: The leaping charge hit is going to do a lot more damage than a frenzy of punches, most of which hit the helmet or glance off the shoulder pad anyways.

NHL actually got this one right.

I have a problem because it wasn't intentional. Hagelin has never been shown to play like this, there have been quotes by both him and Alfredsson about how it was an inadvertent high elbow caused by him trying to finish his check. Meanwhile Carkner intentionally jumps Boyle and Weber grabs Zetterberg's head and slams it into the glass and both get off lighter. So the lesson here is if you're going to rough up an opposing player do it purposefully instead of accidentally - which, you know, is only the sort of behavior that led to Bertuzzi injuring Moore back in 2004. If Hagelin deserves a 3 game suspension, then Carkner and Weber deserve at least as much.


I have to wonder how much of that was his careless headshot (which he should totally be suspended for) and how much of it was the fact that Alfredsson's got sticks that have seen more NHL ice than Hagelin has. Shanny pretty emphatically underlined the part about him having a one-year NHL career. You still need to be in control of your body and your equipment, but accidents do happen. Hopefully for Hagelin it won't happen again, it'd suck to get a reputation as "that kind of player" so early in his career.

If Carkner were smart, he'd have hit Boyle maybe once after he was down and then ragdolled him or mocked him for being a big turtling sissy. If he'd done that then he'd have gotten 17 and that would've been it, but he had to get stupid and start punching Boyle's pads while he was down. That pretty much screams to the ref that you've officially come uncorked and they pretty much have to suspend you for that. Ask Andre Roy.
 
2012-04-16 12:31:33 PM  

bottsicus: Just saw that Asham got a match penalty for his cross-check. Can somebody explain the difference between a match penalty and a game misconduct?


I believe the functional difference is that a Match Penalty (^) results in an automatic supplementary discipline hearing:

In addition to the match penalty, the player shall be automatically suspended from further competition until the Commissioner has ruled on the issue. See also Rule 29 - Supplementary Discipline.
 
2012-04-16 12:36:27 PM  
I have looked at the video frame by frame three times and still don't see the stick ever touching his throat... does someone have a view showing the stick on his neck?
 
2012-04-16 12:37:30 PM  

grinding_journalist: netweavr: Prediction. Someone gets tossed 2 minutes in.

I agree, but there'll be a scrap of some sort that causes the tossing- it won't be a simple hit or rough check.


The refs should jump on the first sign of trouble very hard, and set a consistent tone early.
 
2012-04-16 12:38:33 PM  

mainstreet62:
Carkner's overt aggression works against him. Because he's the little pussy that he is, his punches are like tickling bullet proof glass with a flower.


This would be the same Matt Carkner that broke Boogaard's nose in one fight, and shattered his orbital bone and gave him a concussion with one punch in another?

The only reason Boyle wasn't hurt was because he curled up in a little ball waiting for the linesman to pull him off. He did the same thing when Neil grabbed him a little later. I half expected him to puke and try to swim away like a sea cucumber.
 
2012-04-16 12:40:33 PM  

jack_o_the_hills: I have looked at the video frame by frame three times and still don't see the stick ever touching his throat... does someone have a view showing the stick on his neck?


Back, and to the left... Back, and to the left...
 
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