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(Yahoo)   Home plate ump blows ball bunted foul call; Dodgers get easy triple play (LGT video)   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 133
    More: Dumbass, fox, triple plays  
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3327 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Apr 2012 at 5:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-16 12:48:20 AM  
Baseball is still boring.
 
2012-04-16 01:33:46 AM  
I took 3 poops today.
 
2012-04-16 06:16:24 AM  
OUTRAGE!

/no idea what I'm supposed to be watching for here
 
2012-04-16 07:09:47 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: OUTRAGE!

/no idea what I'm supposed to be watching for here


Runners were on first and second, no one out. As the ball was bunted, the home plate umpire put both arms up. This is the signal for foul ball. However, he then pointed toward fair territory, which is the signal for fair ball. Unfortunately, the runners saw the first signal (foul ball), and stopped running. The catcher fielded the ball (which had been ruled in fair territory), then threw to the third baseman for out # 1, who threw to second for out #2, who threw to first for out #3.

What complicatd matters was that the pitch was thrown up and in and the batter tried to get out of the way of it. He inadvertanly made contact with the ball and it dribbled into fair territory, making it a live ball. It was a natural reaction by the umpire at first to hold his hands up, because, well, the pitch was thrown so tight and close that he assumed it was going to hit the batter. He was wrong.

If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.
 
2012-04-16 07:23:36 AM  

Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.


Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.
 
2012-04-16 07:34:29 AM  

Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.


Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.
 
2012-04-16 07:35:06 AM  

Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.


Landed? The catcher picked it up in fair territory. It doesn't matter where it hit the ground before that.
 
2012-04-16 07:37:26 AM  

oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.


^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."
 
2012-04-16 07:48:03 AM  
Since I'm a huge Dodgers fan, I see nothing wrong with what happened there. Looked legit to me. Just move along now.
 
2012-04-16 07:53:04 AM  
wow, and with a tied game in the ninth...so when are they going to start reviewing these?
 
2012-04-16 07:54:31 AM  

Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."


The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...
 
2012-04-16 07:59:58 AM  

Wise_Guy: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Landed? The catcher picked it up in fair territory. It doesn't matter where it hit the ground before that.


If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

The Ump blew that one. (insert Lohan joke here).
 
2012-04-16 08:01:20 AM  

JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...


Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.
www.umpire.org
 
2012-04-16 08:04:12 AM  

jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.


I don't know the rule for behind home plate, but in the infield a ball can roll foul and back fair and be considered fair.

That's why the fielders will follow the ball foul and pick it up as soon as it crosses the line on a slow roller down the line
 
2012-04-16 08:04:29 AM  

Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.


If a batted ball starts in foul territory and enters fair territory before it passes first or third base, without anybody or thing touching it, is a fair ball. If it starts foul and then is touched in foul territory, it's foul. In this case, the ball started foul and rolled fair, where it was picked up by the catcher. Fair ball.

I'm an umpire myself, so I'm getting a kick...

But as was said by someone else, as a runner you run until you HEAR "foul ball" from an umpire, not stop when you're confused as to what's happening. Just run until the umpire tells you to turn around and go back.
 
2012-04-16 08:05:47 AM  

jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.


No, it depends on either where it stops, where it crosses first or third, or, as in this case, where it was touched.
 
2012-04-16 08:12:29 AM  

jim515: Wise_Guy: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Landed? The catcher picked it up in fair territory. It doesn't matter where it hit the ground before that.

If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

The Ump blew that one. (insert Lohan joke here).


Know how I know someone isn't up on his Rules of Baseball?

Example: Ball is bunted down the third base line. It starts in foul territory. As it is rolling, it hits the sport where the dirt in the baseline meets the grass in foul territory, changes direction, and meaners into fair territory. All of this before it gets to third base. If it wasn't touched before rolling back into fair territory, it's a fair ball. If someone had touched it while foul, however, the ball would be foul. That why when a ball is bunted down the line, sometimes you'll see the fielder wait for it to roll foul and then quickly touch it, just in case it rolls back fair.

However, if the ball lands foul past first or third base, and then bounces fair, it's a foul ball.

Your misinterpretation of the rule is understandable, though. Many casual fans make the same mistake.

That's okay, though. Most fans aren't.
 
2012-04-16 08:16:10 AM  

jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.


Uh, no it's not....
 
2012-04-16 08:23:40 AM  
The baserunners should have run regardless. If it turned out to be a foul ball they would have been sent back.
 
2012-04-16 08:32:13 AM  

jim515: Wise_Guy: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Landed? The catcher picked it up in fair territory. It doesn't matter where it hit the ground before that.

If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

The Ump blew that one. (insert Lohan joke here).


You couldn't be more wrong.
 
2012-04-16 08:37:27 AM  

Wise_Guy: jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

No, it depends on either where it stops, where it crosses first or third, or, as in this case, where it was touched.


That is true everywhere except home plate and is trickier to call, especially if it hits the catcher which isn't clear from the limited replay.

Also none of it matters since he signals it foul immediately.

The ump farked up.
 
2012-04-16 08:38:11 AM  

Flushmonkii: JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...

Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.


Did it look that way? Yes. Was there a verbalization of "FOUL BALL!"? Not that I hear. And none of the other umpires have their hands up either, which is a normal mechanic in situations like this. All 4 umpires knew what was going on, why didn't the runners? Because the runners assumed it was a foul/dead ball.
 
2012-04-16 08:41:44 AM  

Cubs300: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

If a batted ball starts in foul territory and enters fair territory before it passes first or third base, without anybody or thing touching it, is a fair ball. If it starts foul and then is touched in foul territory, it's foul. In this case, the ball started foul and rolled fair, where it was picked up by the catcher. Fair ball.

I'm an umpire myself, so I'm getting a kick...

But as was said by someone else, as a runner you run until you HEAR "foul ball" from an umpire, not stop when you're confused as to what's happening. Just run until the umpire tells you to turn around and go back.


Ahh a fellow umpire... Glad to know I'm not alone here.
 
2012-04-16 08:43:03 AM  

JSam21: Flushmonkii: JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...

Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.

Did it look that way? Yes. Was there a verbalization of "FOUL BALL!"? Not that I hear. And none of the other umpires have their hands up either, which is a normal mechanic in situations like this. All 4 umpires knew what was going on, why didn't the runners? Because the runners assumed it was a foul/dead ball.


Do you even know why there are hand signals in baseball? To eliminate doubt since you couldn't always hear them scream foul, he signaled foul ball and that should have been the final call, once his hands go up that IS his call even if he doesn't verbalize it.
 
2012-04-16 08:44:18 AM  

steamingpile: Wise_Guy: jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

No, it depends on either where it stops, where it crosses first or third, or, as in this case, where it was touched.

That is true everywhere except home plate and is trickier to call, especially if it hits the catcher which isn't clear from the limited replay.

Also none of it matters since he signals it foul immediately.

The ump farked up.


Wrong wrong wrong. It's the same everywhere before 1st and 3rd base. A ball sitting on top of home plate is a fair ball.
 
2012-04-16 08:45:46 AM  

JSam21: Cubs300: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

If a batted ball starts in foul territory and enters fair territory before it passes first or third base, without anybody or thing touching it, is a fair ball. If it starts foul and then is touched in foul territory, it's foul. In this case, the ball started foul and rolled fair, where it was picked up by the catcher. Fair ball.

I'm an umpire myself, so I'm getting a kick...

But as was said by someone else, as a runner you run until you HEAR "foul ball" from an umpire, not stop when you're confused as to what's happening. Just run until the umpire tells you to turn around and go back.

Ahh a fellow umpire... Glad to know I'm not alone here.


I am sure curtis pride would like a word with both of you....
 
2012-04-16 08:48:10 AM  
I think Jim515 has sat behind me at the ballpark way too many times...he always makes it a point to "educate" not just the people in his group about the rules and history of baseball, but everyone in his section.
 
2012-04-16 08:49:41 AM  

steamingpile: JSam21: Flushmonkii: JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...

Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.

Did it look that way? Yes. Was there a verbalization of "FOUL BALL!"? Not that I hear. And none of the other umpires have their hands up either, which is a normal mechanic in situations like this. All 4 umpires knew what was going on, why didn't the runners? Because the runners assumed it was a foul/dead ball.

Do you even know why there are hand signals in baseball? To eliminate doubt since you couldn't always hear them scream foul, he signaled foul ball and that should have been the final call, once his hands go up that IS his call even if he doesn't verbalize it.


Yes I do... I also know what a home plate umpire looks like when making a foul call in that situation. He doesn't just gingerly put his hands up. He waves his hands and screams foul ball.
 
2012-04-16 08:50:35 AM  

JSam21: steamingpile: Wise_Guy: jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

No, it depends on either where it stops, where it crosses first or third, or, as in this case, where it was touched.

That is true everywhere except home plate and is trickier to call, especially if it hits the catcher which isn't clear from the limited replay.

Also none of it matters since he signals it foul immediately.

The ump farked up.

Wrong wrong wrong. It's the same everywhere before 1st and 3rd base. A ball sitting on top of home plate is a fair ball.


The rules are slightly different around home plate and don't pretend they aren't, its up to the umps discretion what's fair or foul since the batters box is gone fairly early in the game.

Also if it strikes a player while its foul then its foul and I can't see from the replay provided if it hit the catcher, but it does have to cross the point of the plate to be considered fair. Does that stadium have an over the plate camera or did MLB get rid of that camera since umps were getting killed over their calls?
 
2012-04-16 08:53:11 AM  

JSam21: steamingpile: JSam21: Flushmonkii: JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...

Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.

Did it look that way? Yes. Was there a verbalization of "FOUL BALL!"? Not that I hear. And none of the other umpires have their hands up either, which is a normal mechanic in situations like this. All 4 umpires knew what was going on, why didn't the runners? Because the runners assumed it was a foul/dead ball.

Do you even know why there are hand signals in baseball? To eliminate doubt since you couldn't always hear them scream foul, he signaled foul ball and that should have been the final call, once his hands go up that IS his call even if he doesn't verbalize it.

Yes I do... I also know what a home plate umpire looks like when making a foul call in that situation. He doesn't just gingerly put his hands up. He waves his hands and screams foul ball.


You could scream all you want but curtis pride would never hear you, the hand signal are there to not only help deaf players but to avoid injuries.

The ump farked up, when his hands go up it signals foul, don't say you're an ump and act like every player in the world wouldn't stop running.
 
2012-04-16 08:57:42 AM  

steamingpile: JSam21: steamingpile: Wise_Guy: jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

No, it depends on either where it stops, where it crosses first or third, or, as in this case, where it was touched.

That is true everywhere except home plate and is trickier to call, especially if it hits the catcher which isn't clear from the limited replay.

Also none of it matters since he signals it foul immediately.

The ump farked up.

Wrong wrong wrong. It's the same everywhere before 1st and 3rd base. A ball sitting on top of home plate is a fair ball.

The rules are slightly different around home plate and don't pretend they aren't, its up to the umps discretion what's fair or foul since the batters box is gone fairly early in the game.

Also if it strikes a player while its foul then its foul and I can't see from the replay provided if it hit the catcher, but it does have to cross the point of the plate to be considered fair. Does that stadium have an over the plate camera or did MLB get rid of that camera since umps were getting killed over their calls?


The batter's box is irrelevant when it comes to fair or foul. The foul line extends through the batter's box.

The rules are not different around home plate.
 
2012-04-16 09:02:28 AM  

steamingpile: JSam21: steamingpile: JSam21: Flushmonkii: JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...

Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.

Did it look that way? Yes. Was there a verbalization of "FOUL BALL!"? Not that I hear. And none of the other umpires have their hands up either, which is a normal mechanic in situations like this. All 4 umpires knew what was going on, why didn't the runners? Because the runners assumed it was a foul/dead ball.

Do you even know why there are hand signals in baseball? To eliminate doubt since you couldn't always hear them scream foul, he signaled foul ball and that should have been the final call, once his hands go up that IS his call even if he doesn't verbalize it.

Yes I do... I also know what a home plate umpire looks like when making a foul call in that situation. He doesn't just gingerly put his hands up. He waves his hands and screams foul ball.

You could scream all you want but curtis pride would never hear you, the hand signal are there to not only help deaf players but to avoid injuries.

The ump farked up, when his hands go up it signals foul, don't say you're an ump and act like every player in the world wouldn't stop running.


I'm not saying the hands didn't go up... But they didn't go up in a way, as a player or umpire, that I would assume that ball was foul... Especially with no verbalization. He doesn't "sell" the foul call. He does, however, point fair repeatedly when the ball is touched in fair ground.

Answer me this question. How come not a single one of the three other umpires is mirroring his foul call then, if it is that obvious to everyone that the ball is foul?
 
2012-04-16 09:04:41 AM  

Wise_Guy: steamingpile: JSam21: steamingpile: Wise_Guy: jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

No, it depends on either where it stops, where it crosses first or third, or, as in this case, where it was touched.

That is true everywhere except home plate and is trickier to call, especially if it hits the catcher which isn't clear from the limited replay.

Also none of it matters since he signals it foul immediately.

The ump farked up.

Wrong wrong wrong. It's the same everywhere before 1st and 3rd base. A ball sitting on top of home plate is a fair ball.

The rules are slightly different around home plate and don't pretend they aren't, its up to the umps discretion what's fair or foul since the batters box is gone fairly early in the game.

Also if it strikes a player while its foul then its foul and I can't see from the replay provided if it hit the catcher, but it does have to cross the point of the plate to be considered fair. Does that stadium have an over the plate camera or did MLB get rid of that camera since umps were getting killed over their calls?

The batter's box is irrelevant when it comes to fair or foul. The foul line extends through the batter's box.

The rules are not different around home plate.


The line extends to the plate and then the entire plate is fair, it is rare for the ball to be foul on the back of the plate and come back fair without striking the catcher who is in foul territory and would make the ball foul. Its why I would like to see a better replay to see if the ball was spinning or it touched his foot before getting in front of the tip.

Also that is irrelevant since the ump signaled foul immediately.
 
2012-04-16 09:08:03 AM  

JSam21: steamingpile: JSam21: steamingpile: JSam21: Flushmonkii: JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...

Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.

Did it look that way? Yes. Was there a verbalization of "FOUL BALL!"? Not that I hear. And none of the other umpires have their hands up either, which is a normal mechanic in situations like this. All 4 umpires knew what was going on, why didn't the runners? Because the runners assumed it was a foul/dead ball.

Do you even know why there are hand signals in baseball? To eliminate doubt since you couldn't always hear them scream foul, he signaled foul ball and that should have been the final call, once his hands go up that IS his call even if he doesn't verbalize it.

Yes I do... I also know what a home plate umpire looks like when making a foul call in that situation. He doesn't just gingerly put his hands up. He waves his hands and screams foul ball.

You could scream all you want but curtis pride would never hear you, the hand signal are there to not only help deaf players but to avoid injuries.

The ump farked up, when his hands go up it signals foul, don't say you're an ump and act like every player in the world wouldn't stop running.

I'm not saying the hands didn't go up... But they didn't go up in a way, as a player or umpire, that I would assume that ball was foul... Especially with no verbalization. He doesn't "sell" the foul call. He does, however, point fair repeatedly when the ball is touched in fair ground.

Answer me this question. How come not a single one of the three other umpires is mirroring his foul call then, if it is that obvious to everyone that the ball is foul?


That is another question I was wondering as well, I was trying to find out who the crew chief was for the crew and the umps names but I can't find that on their mobile sites.

At the least the crew chief should have conferred to point out the mistake before calling them all out, its one of the biggest issues I have with baseball. The umps think they are always 100% right and that is usually wrong.

Oh and burn in hell eric gregg.
 
2012-04-16 09:09:56 AM  

steamingpile: Wise_Guy: steamingpile: JSam21: steamingpile: Wise_Guy: jim515: If it touches the ground in foul territory it is foul. Doesn't matter if it comes back fair, once on the ground it is foul.

No, it depends on either where it stops, where it crosses first or third, or, as in this case, where it was touched.

That is true everywhere except home plate and is trickier to call, especially if it hits the catcher which isn't clear from the limited replay.

Also none of it matters since he signals it foul immediately.

The ump farked up.

Wrong wrong wrong. It's the same everywhere before 1st and 3rd base. A ball sitting on top of home plate is a fair ball.

The rules are slightly different around home plate and don't pretend they aren't, its up to the umps discretion what's fair or foul since the batters box is gone fairly early in the game.

Also if it strikes a player while its foul then its foul and I can't see from the replay provided if it hit the catcher, but it does have to cross the point of the plate to be considered fair. Does that stadium have an over the plate camera or did MLB get rid of that camera since umps were getting killed over their calls?

The batter's box is irrelevant when it comes to fair or foul. The foul line extends through the batter's box.

The rules are not different around home plate.

The line extends to the plate and then the entire plate is fair, it is rare for the ball to be foul on the back of the plate and come back fair without striking the catcher who is in foul territory and would make the ball foul. Its why I would like to see a better replay to see if the ball was spinning or it touched his foot before getting in front of the tip.

Also that is irrelevant since the ump signaled foul immediately.


The hands mean nothing without verbalization, that is what you don't understand. It's obvious to me that his hands are up in a "let me get out of the way" way. Not in a "kill the play" way. As soon as the ball is touched he signals fair, which has no verbalization to accompany it. There is no "blown call" here.
 
2012-04-16 09:12:31 AM  

steamingpile: JSam21: steamingpile: JSam21: steamingpile: JSam21: Flushmonkii: JSam21: Kinmuan: oh_please: Mattyb710: Cubs300: If you were able to follow all of that, you did better than any of the baserunners in that situation.

Guess you missed the part where the ball landed behind home plate.

Yep, it was foul, and the big thing is that he raised his arms to call it foul initially, which froze the runners, allowing an easy triple play. Had he not raised his arms like that, the guys on base would be running instead of standing there. Just a huge FAIL all the way around by the ump.

^^ Absolutely. My problem with that call isn't calling it fair when it's foul. If he had done that right away, the play would have been (slightly) different. He clearly calls it foul, and then, CHANGES HIS MIND when the catcher goes to make a play. You can't do that. I can't believe that stood. How did that argument go?

"You called that foul!"

"Nu-uh."

The hands went up as a normal reaction to "where is the ball?" As soon as he sees the ball in fair ground he points it fair. It is a bit of a cluster... But I'm not sure how you remedy it. I don't hear him yelling foul ball to kill the play and emphatically waving his hands to kill it. This was on the runners for not running until stopped. We all know what happens when you assume...

Except that the umpire did exactly what you would expect on a foul ball. Of course the runners stopped running.

Did it look that way? Yes. Was there a verbalization of "FOUL BALL!"? Not that I hear. And none of the other umpires have their hands up either, which is a normal mechanic in situations like this. All 4 umpires knew what was going on, why didn't the runners? Because the runners assumed it was a foul/dead ball.

Do you even know why there are hand signals in baseball? To eliminate doubt since you couldn't always hear them scream foul, he signaled foul ball and that should have been the final call, once his hands go up that IS his call even if he doesn't verbalize it.

Yes I do... I also know what a home plate umpire looks like when making a foul call in that situation. He doesn't just gingerly put his hands up. He waves his hands and screams foul ball.

You could scream all you want but curtis pride would never hear you, the hand signal are there to not only help deaf players but to avoid injuries.

The ump farked up, when his hands go up it signals foul, don't say you're an ump and act like every player in the world wouldn't stop running.

I'm not saying the hands didn't go up... But they didn't go up in a way, as a player or umpire, that I would assume that ball was foul... Especially with no verbalization. He doesn't "sell" the foul call. He does, however, point fair repeatedly when the ball is touched in fair ground.

Answer me this question. How come not a single one of the three other umpires is mirroring his foul call then, if it is that obvious to everyone that the ball is foul?

That is another question I was wondering as well, I was trying to find out who the crew chief was for the crew and the umps names but I can't find that on their mobile sites.

At the least the crew chief should have conferred to point out the mistake before calling them all out, its one of the biggest issues I have with baseball. The umps think they are always 100% right and that is usually wrong.

Oh and burn in hell eric gregg.


They are actually usually right if you look at stats. It's funny that in a game where a 60% failure rate makes you one of the best hitters ever, the umpires are expected to be perfect on every call in every game.
 
2012-04-16 09:20:05 AM  
Meanwhile the Umps did everything in their power to stop the Nationals yesterday. Three times you think you've gotten out of the inning only to have a bad call keep you on the mound? Ouch..
 
2012-04-16 09:27:30 AM  
I like how the runner on second base was trying call a timeout.
 
2012-04-16 09:40:46 AM  
Ok, so let me ask this:

What if a batter swings at a pitch, hits it directly behind him, and the ball bounces off the stadium facade and ends up in the infield? Without ever coming into contact with the catcher? Fair or Foul?
 
2012-04-16 09:44:32 AM  
We are forgetting probably the two most important questions:

1) Why is SD bunting with its cleanup hitter?

2) Why is Jesus Guzman the cleanup hitter in a ML lineup?
 
2012-04-16 09:48:56 AM  
Can someone tell me why they don't want replay in the majors? I mean Jim Joyce blowing a perfect game. Jerry meals blowing a obvious out only because it was like the 16 th inning if I remember right. Why no replay?
 
2012-04-16 09:49:43 AM  

Uncle Pooky: Ok, so let me ask this:

What if a batter swings at a pitch, hits it directly behind him, and the ball bounces off the stadium facade and ends up in the infield? Without ever coming into contact with the catcher? Fair or Foul?


It's a foul ball. Touching the wall is basically the same as touching a fielder
 
2012-04-16 09:50:54 AM  

bacongood: 1) Why is SD bunting with its cleanup hitter?


Because that cleanup hitter is Jesus Guzman

bacongood: 2) Why is Jesus Guzman the cleanup hitter in a ML lineup?


Because it's the 2012 San Diego Padres
 
2012-04-16 09:52:10 AM  

Uncle Pooky: Ok, so let me ask this:

What if a batter swings at a pitch, hits it directly behind him, and the ball bounces off the stadium facade and ends up in the infield? Without ever coming into contact with the catcher? Fair or Foul?


Foul.

Rule 2.00:

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that
settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the infielder is on foul or fair territory at the time he touches the ball.

Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher's rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball.
 
2012-04-16 09:59:20 AM  

JSam21: Yes I do... I also know what a home plate umpire looks like when making a foul call in that situation. He doesn't just gingerly put his hands up. He waves his hands and screams foul ball


Look at it again. The ump puts his arms up, waves them, then changes his mind.
 
2012-04-16 10:01:56 AM  

Uncle Pooky: Ok, so let me ask this:

What if a batter swings at a pitch, hits it directly behind him, and the ball bounces off the stadium facade and ends up in the infield? Without ever coming into contact with the catcher? Fair or Foul?


It's a foul ball
 
2012-04-16 10:03:56 AM  
Came to see people like Mattyb710 arguing when they clearly don't know the rules.

Leaving smug.
 
2012-04-16 10:07:38 AM  

JSam21: Uncle Pooky: Ok, so let me ask this:

What if a batter swings at a pitch, hits it directly behind him, and the ball bounces off the stadium facade and ends up in the infield? Without ever coming into contact with the catcher? Fair or Foul?

It's a foul ball


OK, the question has been answered.
 
2012-04-16 10:08:54 AM  
I'm not going to debate it anymore because you will see it the way you want to and I will see it the way I want to. Even if replay was used here the call wouldn't have been reversed because it was a fair ball and the 3 outs were recorded properly.
 
2012-04-16 10:14:36 AM  
It's not like the loss is going to be what keeps the Padres out of the playoffs - no reason for them to care.
 
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