If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Street)   What's fallen more than 50% since 1970? Gas Prices? Home Prices? If you guessed the US Standard of Living, you get a cookie   (thestreet.com) divider line 195
    More: Scary, real dollars  
•       •       •

4188 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Apr 2012 at 6:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



195 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-04-15 11:42:17 PM
Wall Street Ethics?
 
2012-04-15 11:52:13 PM
Compelling but I'm not buying the stats. The average wage was $20 in 1970? Because the average salary was less than $10K.

Adjust as you, will gas and meat were luxury items. (As they are again fast becoming) but I dunno, this seems a bit dubious.
 
2012-04-16 12:02:50 AM
There weren't nearly as many people sucking at the government teat back then. People weren't afraid to work for a living like they are today.
 
2012-04-16 12:08:49 AM

brap: Compelling but I'm not buying the stats. The average wage was $20 in 1970? Because the average salary was less than $10K.

Adjust as you, will gas and meat were luxury items. (As they are again fast becoming) but I dunno, this seems a bit dubious.


FTFA: Using the year 2000 as the numerical base from which to "zero" all of the numbers, real wages peaked in 1970 at around $20/hour.

You're mixing 1970 dollars (salary) with 2000 dollars (hourly wage).
 
2012-04-16 12:10:02 AM
You know what we need? More tax cuts and even weaker unions! It hasn't worked for the last 30 years but it totally will if we just fark you over a little bit more.
 
2012-04-16 12:10:11 AM
Duh.

What did you think would happen when those nice paying jobs went over seas? Did ya really think it would actually help our economy?

I believe in a free market, I do. But we are farking ourselves over by buying the cheap crap that we buy because we wanted to save a few extra bucks.
 
2012-04-16 12:11:41 AM
Ok, I have a small bone to pick. I liked the article, but inflation != change in the cost of living. Inflation is a metric that deals purely with the buying power of the currency, which is a function of the volume of the money supply and the velocity of money.

This is not to say that things have become better or worse. I just hate when people use inflation to measure the wrong thing.
 
2012-04-16 12:20:19 AM
You get one cookie, but it's a nasty banana cookie or one of those Pepperidge Farm Chessmen.
 
2012-04-16 12:21:19 AM
Nevermind, that article was terrible. The epic derp reminds me that the right wing doesn't have a monopoly on wack jobs.
 
2012-04-16 12:21:25 AM

xl5150: There weren't nearly as many people sucking at the government teat back then. People weren't afraid to work for a living like they are today.


Yeah, that's what it is.

Get off the talk radio, man. It's rotting your brain.
 
2012-04-16 12:24:57 AM

cman: Duh.

What did you think would happen when those nice paying jobs went over seas? Did ya really think it would actually help our economy?

I believe in a free market, I do. But we are farking ourselves over by buying the cheap crap that we buy because we wanted to save a few extra bucks.


You know we manufacture more than at any point in history and that we have the largest manufacturing sector is the world, right?
 
2012-04-16 12:28:13 AM

b2theory: cman: Duh.

What did you think would happen when those nice paying jobs went over seas? Did ya really think it would actually help our economy?

I believe in a free market, I do. But we are farking ourselves over by buying the cheap crap that we buy because we wanted to save a few extra bucks.

You know we manufacture more than at any point in history and that we have the largest manufacturing sector is the world, right?


I think my city waterfront (actually, my whole damn city) would have to disagree with you.

If we really are still number one those people in charge of them go to great lengths to hide them
 
2012-04-16 12:31:29 AM

b2theory: Ok, I have a small bone to pick. I liked the article, but inflation != change in the cost of living. Inflation is a metric that deals purely with the buying power of the currency, which is a function of the volume of the money supply and the velocity of money.

This is not to say that things have become better or worse. I just hate when people use inflation to measure the wrong thing.




Inflation aside, what I took from tfa: 40 years ago one full-time, working-class wage earner could support a household. That ain't happening today.
 
2012-04-16 12:41:03 AM

cman: b2theory: cman: Duh.

What did you think would happen when those nice paying jobs went over seas? Did ya really think it would actually help our economy?

I believe in a free market, I do. But we are farking ourselves over by buying the cheap crap that we buy because we wanted to save a few extra bucks.

You know we manufacture more than at any point in history and that we have the largest manufacturing sector is the world, right?

I think my city waterfront (actually, my whole damn city) would have to disagree with you.

If we really are still number one those people in charge of them go to great lengths to hide them


Yeah, why bother with facts and reading when you have a sense based a highly calibrated observation of where you live.
 
2012-04-16 12:42:50 AM

cman: You know we manufacture more than at any point in history and that we have the largest manufacturing sector is the world, right?

I think my city waterfront (actually, my whole damn city) would have to disagree with you.


Pro Tip: The US manufacturing base isn't centralized in whatever city you live in.
 
2012-04-16 12:54:01 AM

TsarTom: b2theory: Ok, I have a small bone to pick. I liked the article, but inflation != change in the cost of living. Inflation is a metric that deals purely with the buying power of the currency, which is a function of the volume of the money supply and the velocity of money.

This is not to say that things have become better or worse. I just hate when people use inflation to measure the wrong thing.



Inflation aside, what I took from tfa: 40 years ago one full-time, working-class wage earner could support a household. That ain't happening today.


No one wants to live like a single income house on a working class wage 40 years ago. We need more than 1 TV and it better have cable with high speed Internet so that I can watch HD movies streamed to my X-Box while I type comments onto Fark from my hand held super computer.

Plus, our women keep getting "educated" and compete with us for the same jobs. That almost doubled the number of people in the workforce.
 
2012-04-16 01:37:37 AM
Your overpaid union job is gone dipwad, get used to the two-income family that has more and better toys than the 1970's ever dreamed of.
 
2012-04-16 01:45:58 AM

TsarTom: Inflation aside, what I took from tfa: 40 years ago one full-time, working-class wage earner could support a household. That ain't happening today.


Sure it does. You just have to lower your expectations to what people had in 1970. Sure, that was 15 or 20 years before you were born, and you can't really relate, but just pretend someone took away all of your technology and gave you a 14" black and white television, a crappy record player, a slide rule, library pass, and a rotary dial phone hardwired to the wall (one per home). Your car has a carb, spark plugs, points, a distributor cap, and after a tune up can get 16 MPG, and the average house was about 1200 square feet (and 8 people lived in it).
 
2012-04-16 02:09:56 AM
I blame Obama's fiscal policies in the 80s.
 
2012-04-16 02:36:13 AM
obviously, the solution is more tax cuts for the rich.
 
2012-04-16 03:00:13 AM

LordZorch: Your overpaid union job is gone dipwad, get used to the two-income family that has more and better toys than the 1970's ever dreamed of.


Imagine how much stuff people could have, and how much the economy would grow, if the standard of living had kept growing.
 
2012-04-16 03:02:09 AM
fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net

came across that earlier tonight, quite relevant to the discussion at hand
 
2012-04-16 03:04:20 AM

LordZorch: TsarTom: Inflation aside, what I took from tfa: 40 years ago one full-time, working-class wage earner could support a household. That ain't happening today.

Sure it does. You just have to lower your expectations to what people had in 1970. Sure, that was 15 or 20 years before you were born, and you can't really relate, but just pretend someone took away all of your technology and gave you a 14" black and white television, a crappy record player, a slide rule, library pass, and a rotary dial phone hardwired to the wall (one per home). Your car has a carb, spark plugs, points, a distributor cap, and after a tune up can get 16 MPG, and the average house was about 1200 square feet (and 8 people lived in it).


Uh, actually no. The article specifically adjusts so that we don't have to lower your expectations to 1970 levels.
 
2012-04-16 03:14:07 AM

cman: Duh.

What did you think would happen when those nice paying jobs went over seas? Did ya really think it would actually help our economy?

I believe in a free market, I do. But we are farking ourselves over by buying the cheap crap that we buy because we wanted to save a few extra bucks.


This

b2theory: You know we manufacture more than at any point in history and that we have the largest manufacturing sector is the world, right?


Are you suggesting we did not lose manufacturing jobs to overseas interests? Also you should provide a citation for your claim -because its bullshiat in the context of cman's comment.

LordZorch: TsarTom: Inflation aside, what I took from tfa: 40 years ago one full-time, working-class wage earner could support a household. That ain't happening today.

Sure it does. You just have to lower your expectations to what people had in 1970. Sure, that was 15 or 20 years before you were born, and you can't really relate, but just pretend someone took away all of your technology and gave you a 14" black and white television, a crappy record player, a slide rule, library pass, and a rotary dial phone hardwired to the wall (one per home). Your car has a carb, spark plugs, points, a distributor cap, and after a tune up can get 16 MPG, and the average house was about 1200 square feet (and 8 people lived in it).


You say "lower your expectations" and then go on to list the latest technologies of the times. You fail at context.
 
2012-04-16 03:35:55 AM

b2theory: We need more than 1 TV and it better have cable with high speed Internet so that I can watch HD movies streamed to my X-Box while I type comments onto Fark from my hand held super computer.


LordZorch: Sure, that was 15 or 20 years before you were born, and you can't really relate, but just pretend someone took away all of your technology and gave you a 14" black and white television, a crappy record player, a slide rule, library pass, and a rotary dial phone hardwired to the wall (one per home). Your car has a carb, spark plugs, points, a distributor cap, and after a tune up can get 16 MPG, and the average house was about 1200 square feet (and 8 people lived in it).


Who the hell thinks that the a sizable portion of our wages go to televisions and stereos, or that the cheapening of microprocessors shouldn't make things that depend on them cheaper?
 
2012-04-16 05:04:20 AM
"Bushes fault"
 
2012-04-16 06:31:46 AM
It's definitely time to put a casino in the middle of every large-ish city in the country.
 
2012-04-16 06:45:53 AM

xl5150: There weren't nearly as many people sucking at the government teat back then. People weren't afraid to work for a living like they are today.


Goog, goog, that'll get some bites.
 
2012-04-16 06:49:30 AM

WaitWhatWhy: xl5150: There weren't nearly as many people sucking at the government teat back then. People weren't afraid to work for a living like they are today.

Googd, googd, that'll get some bites.


FTFM
 
2012-04-16 06:55:51 AM

WhyteRaven74: [fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net image 640x480]

came across that earlier tonight, quite relevant to the discussion at hand


And the gap continues to grow - and grow faster. The last time the disparity in the fortunes of Americans was this large, it helped bring about the Great Depression.We all know that can't be sustained, but nobody seems willing to admit the existence of the elephant in the living room.
It's a problem that MUST be solved, and soon - but nobody wants to talk about it.
 
2012-04-16 06:56:04 AM

LordZorch: I hate union workers because they get a living wage and I don't, so rather than joining a union I will fight to the death to make sure the union guy makes as little as I do.


Just more politics of envy and class warfare from Republicans
 
2012-04-16 07:04:24 AM
"With additional corrections for real inflation per shadowstats.com"

Yeah, about that.
 
2012-04-16 07:14:50 AM
THANK YOU, Baby Boomers, for sucking the nation dry.
 
2012-04-16 07:16:52 AM

b2theory: TsarTom: b2theory: Ok, I have a small bone to pick. I liked the article, but inflation != change in the cost of living. Inflation is a metric that deals purely with the buying power of the currency, which is a function of the volume of the money supply and the velocity of money.

This is not to say that things have become better or worse. I just hate when people use inflation to measure the wrong thing.



Inflation aside, what I took from tfa: 40 years ago one full-time, working-class wage earner could support a household. That ain't happening today.

No one wants to live like a single income house on a working class wage 40 years ago. We need more than 1 TV and it better have cable with high speed Internet so that I can watch HD movies streamed to my X-Box while I type comments onto Fark from my hand held super computer.

Plus, our women keep getting "educated" and compete with us for the same jobs. That almost doubled the number of people in the workforce.


You do realize you can buy multiple 40" HD TV's for the price of one 40 years ago, right?
 
2012-04-16 07:17:31 AM
Well, I'd prefer a consumption tax to a wealth tax, I think, but a shorter work week would go a long way to alleviating unemployment and improving quality of life. Especially if the school week were still 5 days (effective teacher salaries would have to increase by 20%, which would get better teachers). Eliminate law enforcement overtime to pay for the teachers.

I have no idea how you'd go about breaking up major multinational corporations, but it would be worth a try. Big and rich isn't an issue with me, but playing games to reduce tax burden and then screwing those who support your rise sort of pissess me of.

/difficulty, capitalist
 
2012-04-16 07:23:53 AM
www.boingboing.net
Carl's Jr. loves you.
 
2012-04-16 07:24:39 AM

b2theory: Ok, I have a small bone to pick. I liked the article, but inflation != change in the cost of living. Inflation is a metric that deals purely with the buying power of the currency, which is a function of the volume of the money supply and the velocity of money.

This is not to say that things have become better or worse. I just hate when people use inflation to measure the wrong thing.


Don't discount the effect of inflation, especially when wages have not kept up. A family could live very comfortably on a single income of $15000 in 1970. Try getting a family by on one income today.
 
2012-04-16 07:32:36 AM

LordZorch: Your overpaid union job is gone dipwad, get used to the two-income family that has more and better toys than the 1970's ever dreamed of.


This

And did nobody else notice this was an opinion piece?

And he didn't bother mentioning how the price of goods have dropped in comparison as well? Its like someone is jumping on the bandwagon of corporation hate.
 
2012-04-16 07:33:44 AM
please note that this "article" is an opinion piece written by canadian gold bugs

the original source of is not actually TheStreet.com, but here

Link (new window)
 
2012-04-16 07:44:43 AM

Lando Lincoln: xl5150: There weren't nearly as many people sucking at the government teat back then. People weren't afraid to work for a living like they are today.

Yeah, that's what it is.

Get off the talk radio, man. It's rotting your brain.


Do you NOT think that's part of the problem?

We've got way too many people who will never contribute to the tax base, nor do they want to. That means more of a burden to the rest of us.

Flip the gauge around and you have companies who try to do the same thing.

In between you have a political class that can't/won't understand the concept of budgetary discretion (unless it can be used to hurt the "other" side).

Sorry, but the system is rotten, and all we get for it is an extra squeezing of the middle class without the benefit of the reach around.

Buffett had it right when he said that there is/was a class war going on, and the middle class lost.
 
2012-04-16 07:51:03 AM

Frederick: cman: Duh.

What did you think would happen when those nice paying jobs went over seas? Did ya really think it would actually help our economy?

I believe in a free market, I do. But we are farking ourselves over by buying the cheap crap that we buy because we wanted to save a few extra bucks.

This

b2theory: You know we manufacture more than at any point in history and that we have the largest manufacturing sector is the world, right?

Are you suggesting we did not lose manufacturing jobs to overseas interests? Also you should provide a citation for your claim -because its bullshiat in the context of cman's comment.

LordZorch: TsarTom: Inflation aside, what I took from tfa: 40 years ago one full-time, working-class wage earner could support a household. That ain't happening today.

Sure it does. You just have to lower your expectations to what people had in 1970. Sure, that was 15 or 20 years before you were born, and you can't really relate, but just pretend someone took away all of your technology and gave you a 14" black and white television, a crappy record player, a slide rule, library pass, and a rotary dial phone hardwired to the wall (one per home). Your car has a carb, spark plugs, points, a distributor cap, and after a tune up can get 16 MPG, and the average house was about 1200 square feet (and 8 people lived in it).

You say "lower your expectations" and then go on to list the latest technologies of the times. You fail at context.


Actually, those *WEREN'T* the latest technologies:

14" black and white television,


Color television was in widespread use by 1970.

a crappy record player,


Record players had been around for decades. The 45 rpm single / 33 rpm album formats had been around for a long time.

a slide rule,


Slide rules were invented in 1859. Technically, they are older than that, but that is when the 'modern' form was invented.

library pass,


Public libraries in the US date to the 18th Century.

and a rotary dial phone hardwired to the wall (one per home).


Rotary dial phones entered service in the US in 1919.

Your car has a carb, spark plugs, points, a distributor cap, and after a tune up can get 16 MPG,


You mean like the Ford Model T?

and the average house was about 1200 square feet (and 8 people lived in it).


Actually, average house size in 1970 was 1400 square feet, and the average number of people in that home was 3.14.
 
2012-04-16 07:56:14 AM
The only true and accurate stat one needs to know is this:
what is the median and mode number of hours of work of the population does it take to acquire a specific, basic basket of goods.

An egg is an egg in 1970 as it is in 2012
A square foot of housing is a square foot
And most importantly...
An hour is an hour.
 
2012-04-16 07:57:02 AM
 
2012-04-16 08:03:40 AM
Yeah, and they had 3 channels, 4 if you count UHF.
 
2012-04-16 08:05:52 AM

GAT_00: You know what we need? More tax cuts and even weaker unions! It hasn't worked for the last 30 years but it totally will if we just fark you over a little bit more.


No. People need more access to credit. How else can they purchase their way to wealth?
 
2012-04-16 08:08:41 AM

b2theory: cman: Duh.

What did you think would happen when those nice paying jobs went over seas? Did ya really think it would actually help our economy?

I believe in a free market, I do. But we are farking ourselves over by buying the cheap crap that we buy because we wanted to save a few extra bucks.

You know we manufacture more than at any point in history and that we have the largest manufacturing sector is the world, right?


Productivity up = more goods with fewer workers.
Fewer needed workers = downward pressure on wages

I can't wait for the "Screw everyone else, I got mine" mentality to come tumbling down.
 
2012-04-16 08:10:01 AM

steamingpile: LordZorch: Your overpaid union job is gone dipwad, get used to the two-income family that has more and better toys than the 1970's ever dreamed of.

This

And did nobody else notice this was an opinion piece?

And he didn't bother mentioning how the price of goods have dropped in comparison as well? Its like someone is jumping on the bandwagon of corporation hate.


Do you have a sign around your neck that says "I do no know or understand how the cost of living is calculated, please ask me for my opinion anyway."?
 
2012-04-16 08:10:05 AM
Interesting take and resolution (flat tax). Obviously at the top, people don't feel the taxes...but the less you make, the greater the impact taxation has on you.

They problem with a flat tax is that they're regressive. I'd rather see something like Fair Tax than a flat tax. If you spend more, you pay more in taxes and everyone get's X dollars back.
 
2012-04-16 08:10:35 AM
Well, we're only talking about the poor and middle classes... The folks with all the money and power are doing just fine, I'm sure. It's nice being able to afford lobbyists who can craft legislation favorable to you and get it passed into law by the whores in Congress.

...And the GOP wants me to vote for someone who has pretty much stated he's only interested in making like easier for the wealthiest Americans.
 
2012-04-16 08:12:06 AM
By actual measure, we enjoy a higher standard of living now than we did in 1970.

Life expectancy back in 1970 was 74.1 years. Today, *DESPITE* the epidemic of obesity, it has climbed to 79 years. Long term cancer survival rates have more than doubled.

Even someone making bare minimum wage can afford to purchase things that were unavailable to billionaires in 1970. You couldn't buy a laptop computer (much less a smart phone or tablet device) for *ANY* amount of money back in 1970, and even if you could, there was no publicly accessible internet to connect to.

If you wanted a calculator back then, your cheapest option was a plastic slide rule, perhaps with an "adderator" for addition and subraction. Today, you can purchase an electronic calculator for $1.

If you had to type something up back then, your only option was a typewriter. If you farked up the spelling, it was there in black and white for everyone to see, and even if you fixed it, it was obvious. If you messed up badly enough you'd have to re-type the entire page, and if it was really bad, the rest of the document you were typing.

If you wanted to find out where something was, you'd have to get out the atlas or globe and look for it, instead of typing it into a computer. If you were lost, you had to ask for directions, because you didn't have a GPS receiver.

You had to watch what the 4 or 5 TV stations in your area were broadcasting, or nothing at all. Some people had film projectors, of course, but that was mostly for home movies, and the occasional hairy-cooched stag film.

You had to buy film for your camera, and even if you farked up the exposure, you still had to pay twice for each picture, once for the film, and once for the developing/printing of that film.

In 1970, the air and water in the US were much more polluted than they are today.

I remember living in the early 1970's, and trust me, the standard of living is much higher now than it was back then.
 
Displayed 50 of 195 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report