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(Yahoo)   If there was one politician we needed to make brash and incendiary statements about the Israel-Palestine conflict, it's RON PAUL   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Ron Paul, Palestine, Israelis, diplomatic missions of Israel, PLO, Jerusalem, Business Insiders, embassy  
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2874 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Apr 2012 at 5:26 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-16 04:10:15 AM  

Tatsuma: There was not thing such as an arab 'palestinian people' a hundred years ago. The only people who were called 'palestinians' then were Jews. The Arabs who are now called palestinians were originally Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who moved in the area in the last 150 years and did not have any sort of link whatsoever with this area, or a separate identity from the rest of the surrounding countries.

Also, how about you let us decide who is Jewish and who is not, you arrogant little twerps?


In the same way Israeli's decide who is Palestinian?
 
2012-04-16 04:34:48 AM  

Tatsuma: We are the literal descendent of the Israelis,


Just like the italians and the romans.

we have kept our identity as such, we have kept our culture and all of our links to our forefathers.

Then why are there so many different jewish ethnicities? You can't all be the same as the original israelis.

What the original israelis might have looked like:

upload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.org

The same can absolutely not be said about Italians versus Romans.

No less than it can be said of jews.
 
2012-04-16 05:00:44 AM  

Tatsuma: The language? We speak the same language they do, and we never lost it.


Which language is that? Yiddish? Ladino? Qwara? Ge'ez?

The revival of the Hebrew language was a process that took place in Europe and Palestine toward the end of the 19th century and into the 20th century, through which the language's usage changed from the sacred languages of Judaism to a spoken and written language used for daily life in Israel. (new window)

The religion? The same.

You're saying today's judaism is the same as pre-diaspora judaism? Then why are there so many jewish denominations? Rabbinic, orthodox, masorti, reform ...

Laws and ethical worldview? The same.

Yeah, we are definitely seeing the spirit of Joshua in modern day Israel.

Location? The same.

Apart from the 2000 year absence, of course. BTW: Wasn't Jordan part of the original Israel?

Capital? The same.
Currency? The same (name).


But with a 2000 year gap.

Holidays? The same

and the list goes on and on and on. This can absolutely not be said of the relationship between the Romans and Italians.


Lessee...

Language: I think (but don't know) modern italian is closer to latin than yiddish is to hebrew. Ditto ladino etc.
Religion: The catholic church is alive and well.
Laws and ethical worldview: Well, Italy is no longer an oppressive, imperialist nation, so you got that one right.
Location: Unlike the israelis, the italians never left. They stayed home.
Capital: Rome is still Rome.
Currency: Yeah, there's been some changes there.
Holidays: Not only are the holidays the same, but the whole world celebrates them. (yes, easter and christmas are pagan roman holidays)
 
2012-04-16 09:04:16 AM  

Frederick: Tatsuma: There was not thing such as an arab 'palestinian people' a hundred years ago. The only people who were called 'palestinians' then were Jews. The Arabs who are now called palestinians were originally Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who moved in the area in the last 150 years and did not have any sort of link whatsoever with this area, or a separate identity from the rest of the surrounding countries.

Also, how about you let us decide who is Jewish and who is not, you arrogant little twerps?

Tatsuma: tyrellco: The same can absolutely not be said about Tatsuma, who is a convert to Judaism. Assuming that's even possible.

1) I am not a convert, I am what is called 'baal teshuva', a non-religious Jew who returned to Judaism
2) Yes, it is possible to convert to Judaism, though its not an easy undertaking

And yes the same can be said for me and every other Jew today. 2000 years of tradition and everything else just as alive today as it was then.

tyrellco: However, the same could absolutely be said about millions of Palestinians, who have kept identity, culture, links etc. in the face of over fifty years of ethnic cleansing.

yeah, the problem is that they created this 'identity and culture' in the last 50 years as well. There was not thing such as an arab 'palestinian people' a hundred years ago. The only people who were called 'palestinians' then were Jews. The Arabs who are now called palestinians were originally Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who moved in the area in the last 150 years and did not have any sort of link whatsoever with this area, or a separate identity from the rest of the surrounding countries.

glaurunge: He might be a convert to the Jewish religion, but he's not an actual "Jew." He'll probably tell you otherwise, but it doesn't change the fact that merely adhering to said religion doesn't alter the composition of his extended family tree.

You people are really clueless, aren't you? Shameful.

Also, how about you let us decide who is Jewish and who is not, you arrogant little twerps?

Go ahead and figure out for yourselves who is a member of the Jewish religion.

Member of Jewish religion != Someone who is Jewish. The problem is one if vocabulary. Up until very recently most followers of the Jewish religion were Jews and most Jews followed the Jewish religion. So we used the same words to describe both, since the two groups were essentially the same. That has now changed but the vocabulary hasn't evolved to account for the splitting of these once synonymous groups.
 
2012-04-16 12:25:16 PM  

Tatsuma: Also, how about you let us decide who is Jewish and who is not, you arrogant little twerps?


pot, kettle
 
2012-04-16 04:42:38 PM  

Tatsuma: tyrellco: The same can absolutely not be said about Tatsuma, who is a convert to Judaism. Assuming that's even possible.

1) I am not a convert, I am what is called 'baal teshuva', a non-religious Jew who returned to Judaism


The story you first told here on Fark was that you came from an entirely non-Jewish upbringing, took up Judaism as an adult, and then "discovered" that there might be some Jewish ancestors in your tree.

It's absurd in this thread, and insulting to those born and raised a Jew, for you to claim direct lineage and culture to your adopted group, and to then use it to disparage, well, anyone else actually born and raised in their native culture.

So you come here and tell lies about Jews, Palestinians and Israel. But that's no surprise from someone who lies to himself about himself.
 
2012-04-16 07:05:22 PM  
Yeah...because the most accurate way to describe the ludicrous suggestion that a sovereign, allied nation be allowed to name its capital (like every single one of the other 194 countries on the planet) is a "brash and incendiary statement about the Israel-Palestine conflict".
 
2012-04-17 04:15:24 PM  

glaurunge: Member of Jewish religion != Someone who is Jewish. The problem is one if vocabulary. Up until very recently most followers of the Jewish religion were Jews and most Jews followed the Jewish religion. So we used the same words to describe both, since the two groups were essentially the same. That has now changed but the vocabulary hasn't evolved to account for the splitting of these once synonymous groups.


This opinion above is the "Jew is a race" theory. Only Jews really believe it. To the rest of the world "Jew" is a religion, not a race.
 
2012-04-17 09:00:36 PM  
Ron Paul legalize fiat derp.
 
2012-04-18 09:36:37 AM  

Eshkar: Being 'attacked' does not indicate who attacked first, Attack: "to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon" You can still attack after being attacked. So yeah evidently it is you that the idiot... though I perfer the term dumb ass... Dumb Ass


So they should keep the territory because their show 45 years ago was impressive?
 
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