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(New York Daily News)   65 years ago today, a young, scared, talented kid put on a Brooklyn Dodgers uniform. You know how the story continues   (nydailynews.com) divider line 234
    More: Hero, Dodgers, Jackie Robinson, Branch Rickey, team sports, Stanley Cups, roster  
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13807 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2012 at 3:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-15 01:01:00 PM
He fixes the cable?
 
2012-04-15 02:40:00 PM
He blows the tendon in his knee, leaves baseball, graduates university with a doctorate in theoretical physics, gets hired by the government to work on their Black Mesa project, rips a hole in space/time and ensures the enslavement of the human race by an invasive alien species?

Sorry, no wait, that was my uncle.
 
2012-04-15 03:23:55 PM
He damaged his throwing arm, got traded to the Giants in 1950, played until the end of the 1951 season, coached the Fair Oaks American Legion team, and was a scout for the Cubs for over 20 years.

He died November 6, 2003.

And that's the story of Spider Jorgensen, a fine young player who first put on a Brooklyn Dodgers uniform on April 15, 1947.
 
2012-04-15 03:27:36 PM

CruiserTwelve: He fixes the cable?


They didn't have cable 65 years ago, numbnuts.
 
2012-04-15 03:29:17 PM
He once hit 7 home runs in a single 9 inning game
 
2012-04-15 03:30:14 PM
Finally. An appropriate use of the Hero tag.
 
2012-04-15 03:31:09 PM
Baseball players are gross.
 
2012-04-15 03:31:12 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: CruiserTwelve: He fixes the cable?

They didn't have cable 65 years ago, numbnuts.


I bet Robinson fixed quite a bit of cable back in the day, if you know what I mean, and I think you do.
 
2012-04-15 03:32:30 PM
Negro's in baseball?! Why next thing you know, women will be in trousers!
 
2012-04-15 03:33:41 PM
He tries out, gets cut, goes home and starts a revolution to throw off American Hegemony?
 
2012-04-15 03:35:49 PM
www.jockbio.com

Not impressed
 
2012-04-15 03:35:55 PM

nunpunter: Negro's in baseball?! Why next thing you know, women will be in trousers!


this must stop immediately! quick notify the constabulary!
 
2012-04-15 03:38:15 PM
That deaf, dumb, and blind kid played a mean game of pinball?
 
2012-04-15 03:38:58 PM

libranoelrose: Baseball players are gross.


As opposed to football players who piss in their pants during a game?

Riiiiiiight.
 
2012-04-15 03:39:10 PM
He went on to a great career and made sure that when someone claimed that he broke the color barrier he would correct them by pointing out that Branch Rickey actually was the one that broke the color barrier?
 
2012-04-15 03:41:36 PM
Didn't he want to be an electrical engineer?
 
2012-04-15 03:43:08 PM
He got marrooned on an island in the 18th century?
 
2012-04-15 03:44:23 PM
He became baseball's black jebus?
 
2012-04-15 03:45:13 PM
He accidentlied the whole thing?
 
2012-04-15 03:45:18 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: CruiserTwelve: He fixes the cable?

They didn't have cable 65 years ago, numbnuts.


Close. 64 years ago.

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blcabletelevision.htm
 
2012-04-15 03:46:53 PM
www.achievement.org

He was out.
 
2012-04-15 03:47:24 PM
Were Skittles and iced tea his pregame ritual?
 
2012-04-15 03:48:21 PM

nunpunter: Negro's in baseball?! Why next thing you know, women will be in trousers!


A Negro's what?
 
2012-04-15 03:52:09 PM
Started a downward spiral that ends in most of a group of people taking advantage of government assistance and constantly biatching that they aren't treated fairly when not given an unfair advantage?
 
2012-04-15 03:52:42 PM
I hit the cycle once when I was a kid, it was glorious.
 
2012-04-15 03:53:21 PM

no talent ass clown: [www.achievement.org image 395x500]

He was out.


I agree with Lawrence Peter
 
2012-04-15 03:53:47 PM
I'm disappointed old hoss radbourn hasn't had anything to say yet
 
2012-04-15 03:54:45 PM
The Redskins were the last team in football to accept black players. Were they the last of any major team in American sports to do so? The Cowboys Chicken Club (new window) would troll the Redskins hard about their racism during their first two seasons, which led to it being the greatest rivalry in the NFL to this day. Though this off season the Giants are now trying hard to be the biggest douches in the NFC East.
 
2012-04-15 03:55:45 PM
65 years ago today, a young, scared courageous, talented kid put on a Brooklyn Dodgers uniform. You know how the story continues.

FTFY
 
2012-04-15 03:55:55 PM

Hardy-r-r: Finally. An appropriate use of the Hero tag.


Affirmative. His greatness extended far beyond the playing field.
 
2012-04-15 03:56:38 PM
Is it true that stealing bases wasn't common in baseball until the negroes were allowed to play?
 
2012-04-15 03:57:59 PM

Rwa2play: libranoelrose: Baseball players are gross.

As opposed to football players who piss in their pants during a game?

Riiiiiiight.


i.dailymail.co.uk

Unheard of!
 
2012-04-15 03:59:02 PM
Then he looked at himself in the mirror. 'Nah,' he said, 'the colors don't suit me.' And he took the uniform back off again. In doing so, he noticed the feeling of a long, hard, stiff, cylindrical pressure against his buttcheeks. He grabbed it. It had a cold feeling. He yanked it and turned around at the same time. It was.. a spatula. It had been in the uniform's back pocket. 'This,' he said to himself, 'must be a sign.' He walked out of the dressing room and onto the street. He walked for miles and miles until he began to feel hungry. And because he was hungry, he became more and more aware that the street was awash in the smell of food. But where did it come from? He turned around once more - there it was. It was a cute little joint named 'the Krusty Krab'. In it were the nicest people. They offered him food and, because he was carrying his spatula, a job in the kitchen. Where, it must be said, he did extremely well. 'I like being a burger-flipper,' he thought, 'I think I want to do this all day.' He asked if he could stay. He could. He asked if he could sleep somewhere. 'I think there's a house down the road that's vacant,' said the boss, 'it looks a little bit like a pineapple. You can stay there.' And he did.

/ Bloody hell, I don't know how to end this now.
 
2012-04-15 03:59:52 PM
He went to the ballpark to watch a bunch of neanderthals play catch and run in circles?
 
2012-04-15 04:01:28 PM

ThatDarkFellow: Started a downward spiral that ends in most of a group of people taking advantage of government assistance and constantly biatching that they aren't treated fairly when not given an unfair advantage?


No, the Tea Party didn't come along until much later.
 
2012-04-15 04:06:03 PM
He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.
 
2012-04-15 04:09:48 PM
He was 28. Hardly a kid.
 
2012-04-15 04:10:36 PM
Oh right I had forgotten that literally every reference to anything in the MLB has to be some sort of commemoration of Jackie Robinson. Has been for a few years, including Jackie Robinson patches on uniforms of teams that didn't even exist back then. You know, because there aren't any minorities in the MLB. I hope the time comes when we have to add 20% to the stats of all black players in the name of affirmative action.
 
2012-04-15 04:11:32 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Is it true that stealing bases wasn't common in baseball until the negroes were allowed to play?


Oooh you're a bad, bad boy.
 
2012-04-15 04:11:38 PM

9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.


Are you really using counting stats for a guy that didn't play his first game until he was 28?
 
2012-04-15 04:12:15 PM

9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.


This post is so stupid it gave me a stroke.
 
2012-04-15 04:12:23 PM
Barry Bonds
 
2012-04-15 04:13:05 PM

Rex_Banner: Are you really using counting stats for a guy that didn't play his first game until he was 28?


Don't forget the part where he's using HRs & RBIs...for a second baseman who typically hit leadoff.
 
2012-04-15 04:14:09 PM

foo monkey: He was 28. Hardly a kid.


I'm just glad, for subbys sake, that he chose the word "kid" instead of another word which happens to mean "a young male".
 
2012-04-15 04:14:13 PM

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: Are you really using counting stats for a guy that didn't play his first game until he was 28?

Don't forget the part where he's using HRs & RBIs...for a second baseman who typically hit leadoff.


You know what, I take part of that back. He hit cleanup more than anything else.

RBIs are still stupid, though.
 
2012-04-15 04:14:54 PM

The water was cold: foo monkey: He was 28. Hardly a kid.

I'm just glad, for subbys sake, that he chose the word "kid" instead of another word which happens to mean "a young male".


Lad?
 
2012-04-15 04:15:50 PM

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: Are you really using counting stats for a guy that didn't play his first game until he was 28?

Don't forget the part where he's using HRs & RBIs...for a second baseman who typically hit leadoff.


I'm not even going to try to explain a .409 OBP or 131 OPS+ to a guy that doesn't understand that Robinson lost a huge chunk of his prime to reasons beyond his control
 
2012-04-15 04:16:33 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The water was cold: foo monkey: He was 28. Hardly a kid.

I'm just glad, for subbys sake, that he chose the word "kid" instead of another word which happens to mean "a young male".

Lad?


Chap?
 
2012-04-15 04:18:40 PM

Rex_Banner: Are you really using counting stats for a guy that didn't play his first game until he was 28?


Which is why I posted his career averages. At 28, he was in the prime of his career and spent 10 years in the Majors. His averages do not reflect those of the greats.
 
2012-04-15 04:21:05 PM

sharkbeagle: Oh right I had forgotten that literally every reference to anything in the MLB has to be some sort of commemoration of Jackie Robinson. Has been for a few years, including Jackie Robinson patches on uniforms of teams that didn't even exist back then. You know, because there aren't any minorities in the MLB. I hope the time comes when we have to add 20% to the stats of all black players in the name of affirmative action.


Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier wasn't just about baseball - it was about society in general. It marked a MAJOR step forward. This day is absolutely something that should be commemorated.
 
2012-04-15 04:21:21 PM

DeWayne Mann: This post is so stupid it gave me a stroke.


Oh look, a childish insult.
 
2012-04-15 04:22:47 PM

9beers: Rex_Banner: Are you really using counting stats for a guy that didn't play his first game until he was 28?

Which is why I posted his career averages. At 28, he was in the prime of his career and spent 10 years in the Majors. His averages do not reflect those of the greats.


Yeah, he would have sucked at ages 23-27. Totally.
 
2012-04-15 04:23:06 PM
And now a black man owns the Dodgers! This is the slippery slope people!

/go angels
//is glad the dodgers can stop shaming themselves finally
 
2012-04-15 04:23:50 PM
9beers

Baseball nerds need to consider the impact a player had on the game, and that often goes far beyond stats. Not sure what point you're tying to make.
 
2012-04-15 04:24:08 PM

9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)




It's too bad he's not more well known. The name rings a bell but truthfully, I don't know that much about him.
 
2012-04-15 04:26:09 PM
Everybody wearing #42 today.

mlblogsmartelli.files.wordpress.com

Now pitching, Bugs Bunny, 1st base Bugs Bunny, Shortstop Bugs Bunny, Catching Bugs Bunny, Left Field Bugs Bunny.....
 
2012-04-15 04:26:43 PM

9beers: Which is why I posted his career averages. At 28, he was in the prime of his career and spent 10 years in the Majors. His averages do not reflect those of the greats.


First time I've heard 28-37defined as "prime of his career."

Most people would say something more like 25-34.

And, seriously, find me ANY second basemen with indisputably better numbers. Morgan? Nope: Robinson had a hitter BA/OBP. Carew? Nope: Robinson had more power (plus, Carew spent more games at first). Hornsby? Nope: Robinson had better speed. Collins? Again, not enough power.
 
2012-04-15 04:27:40 PM

DavidVincent: I don't know that much about him.


You should take immediate steps to rectify this.

9beers: DeWayne Mann: This post is so stupid it gave me a stroke.

Oh look, a childish insult.


A childish insult for a childish post. Fitting.
 
2012-04-15 04:29:31 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Everybody wearing #42 today.


Another Shame Whitey Day!
www.incredibletvandmovies.com
 
2012-04-15 04:30:52 PM
He and his family took a trip to Alpha Centauri?
 
2012-04-15 04:30:57 PM

Rex_Banner: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.

Are you really using counting stats for a guy that didn't play his first game until he was 28?


Alright, alright. Here we go....

Jackie Robinson was a second baseman. And he had a reputation of being a very good one. You don't hold second basemen to the same standard as first basemen or corner outfielders. He played a much more important defensive position, and that makes his offensive achievements that much more impressive.

For his career, he hit .311/.409/.474, which comes out to a 131 OPS+. That puts him right around guys like this:

Wade Boggs (130 OPS+)
Rod Carew (131 OPS+)
Roberto Clemente (130 OPS+)
Carl Yastrzemski (129 OPS+)
Tony Gwynn (132 OPS+)

No one doubts that those guys are Hall of Famers, and none of them had to deal with the issues that Robinson dealt with
 
2012-04-15 04:31:16 PM
He took an arrow in the knee?
 
2012-04-15 04:32:19 PM

DeWayne Mann: DavidVincent: I don't know that much about him.

You should take immediate steps to rectify this.



Why? He's just a baseball player.
I no longer care much about men who play games.
 
2012-04-15 04:33:13 PM

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.

This post is so stupid it gave me a stroke.


Meh, he didn't get any bites the first time so head to up the ante.
 
2012-04-15 04:33:23 PM
Troll, troll, troll the tread, sitting on your couch.

I have seen your shtick before, at trolling you're no slouch.
 
2012-04-15 04:33:53 PM
persiantoolz.persiangig.com
 
2012-04-15 04:35:14 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: Then he looked at himself in the mirror. 'Nah,' he said, 'the colors don't suit me.' And he took the uniform back off again. In doing so, he noticed the feeling of a long, hard, stiff, cylindrical pressure against his buttcheeks. He grabbed it. It had a cold feeling. He yanked it and turned around at the same time. It was.. a spatula. It had been in the uniform's back pocket. 'This,' he said to himself, 'must be a sign.' He walked out of the dressing room and onto the street. He walked for miles and miles until he began to feel hungry. And because he was hungry, he became more and more aware that the street was awash in the smell of food. But where did it come from? He turned around once more - there it was. It was a cute little joint named 'the Krusty Krab'. In it were the nicest people. They offered him food and, because he was carrying his spatula, a job in the kitchen. Where, it must be said, he did extremely well. 'I like being a burger-flipper,' he thought, 'I think I want to do this all day.' He asked if he could stay. He could. He asked if he could sleep somewhere. 'I think there's a house down the road that's vacant,' said the boss, 'it looks a little bit like a pineapple. You can stay there.' And he did.

/ Bloody hell, I don't know how to end this now.


Figure it out,I need more
 
2012-04-15 04:35:44 PM

DavidVincent: Why? He's just a baseball player.
I no longer care much about men who play games.


Then why are you even in the thread?

Glenford: Meh, he didn't get any bites the first time so head to up the ante.


Yeah, I completely ignored his Boobies. But when someone comes in and starts using stats (poorly) to say something stupid, I gotta respond.
 
2012-04-15 04:36:34 PM

linker3000: He took an arrow in the knee?


Have a sweet roll.
 
2012-04-15 04:38:51 PM

DeWayne Mann: DavidVincent: Why? He's just a baseball player.
I no longer care much about men who play games.

Then why are you even in the thread?

Glenford: Meh, he didn't get any bites the first time so head to up the ante.

Yeah, I completely ignored his Boobies. But when someone comes in and starts using stats (poorly) to say something stupid, I gotta respond.


He's the same douche that thinks Charles Manson should be let out of prison. (new window)
 
2012-04-15 04:39:19 PM

muck4doo: The Redskins were the last team in football to accept black players. Were they the last of any major team in American sports to do so? The Cowboys Chicken Club (new window) would troll the Redskins hard about their racism during their first two seasons, which led to it being the greatest rivalry in the NFL to this day. Though this off season the Giants are now trying hard to be the biggest douches in the NFC East.


Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?
 
2012-04-15 04:43:35 PM

Glenford: He's the same douche that thinks Charles Manson should be let out of prison. (new window)


Sorry, was unclear. I know he's a troll. I have him labeled as such. I am in no way attempting to convince him he's wrong.

But I don't want either of the following two scenarios to occur:

A. Some kid somewhat interested in baseball looks at that post and says "Man, I guess everyone has been overhyping Jackie Robinson all these years. Apparently he wasn't very good after all."

B. Someone who knows Jackie Robinson was very, very good looks at that post and says "See, this is the problem with all these baseball stats! They never tell the whole story!"

Jackie Robinson was very good. Jackie Robinson's stats show that he was very good. Neither of the above should happen. But with a post like that, it's possible. And that bugs me.
 
2012-04-15 04:43:53 PM

muck4doo: muck4doo: The Redskins were the last team in football to accept black players. Were they the last of any major team in American sports to do so? The Cowboys Chicken Club (new window) would troll the Redskins hard about their racism during their first two seasons, which led to it being the greatest rivalry in the NFL to this day. Though this off season the Giants are now trying hard to be the biggest douches in the NFC East.

Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?


I'm sure there are some hockey teams that have yet to integrate. Not sure if their racist or not.
 
2012-04-15 04:44:19 PM

muck4doo: Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?


Far as I know, it's the Red Sox.
 
2012-04-15 04:44:46 PM

muck4doo: muck4doo: The Redskins were the last team in football to accept black players. Were they the last of any major team in American sports to do so? The Cowboys Chicken Club (new window) would troll the Redskins hard about their racism during their first two seasons, which led to it being the greatest rivalry in the NFL to this day. Though this off season the Giants are now trying hard to be the biggest douches in the NFC East.

Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?


I think it was. Red Sox promoted Pumpsie Green in 1959.
 
2012-04-15 04:45:30 PM

DeWayne Mann: muck4doo: Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?

Far as I know, it's the Red Sox.


Sorry, misread when the Redskins integrated. They were indeed later than the Sox.
 
2012-04-15 04:45:54 PM
I figured there'd be more Jamie Moyer references...
 
2012-04-15 04:46:15 PM

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: Which is why I posted his career averages. At 28, he was in the prime of his career and spent 10 years in the Majors. His averages do not reflect those of the greats.

First time I've heard 28-37defined as "prime of his career."

Most people would say something more like 25-34.

And, seriously, find me ANY second basemen with indisputably better numbers. Morgan? Nope: Robinson had a hitter BA/OBP. Carew? Nope: Robinson had more power (plus, Carew spent more games at first). Hornsby? Nope: Robinson had better speed. Collins? Again, not enough power.


still, If I were building a team using players from all eras, I'd probably pick Joe Morgan or Roger hornsby at 2b before robinson.

I still think that it is a shame that 42 is the only number retired league wide. why not 3, 4, 9, and 14 (when he dies and thus the ban is lifted).
 
2012-04-15 04:48:00 PM
Was it Walt Disney that integrated the film industry?



I think he was first gentile to own a studio.
 
2012-04-15 04:48:28 PM
RIP Satchel Paige
 
2012-04-15 04:49:09 PM

turtle553: muck4doo: muck4doo: The Redskins were the last team in football to accept black players. Were they the last of any major team in American sports to do so? The Cowboys Chicken Club (new window) would troll the Redskins hard about their racism during their first two seasons, which led to it being the greatest rivalry in the NFL to this day. Though this off season the Giants are now trying hard to be the biggest douches in the NFC East.

Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?

I'm sure there are some hockey teams that have yet to integrate. Not sure if their racist or not.


That's why i phrased it "to be open to have a black guy on the team". There aren't a lot of black NHL players out there, but from what I've seen NHL teams have no qualms about picking them up. The Redskins flat out stated at the time they would take a black guy on the team when the Globetrotters had a white guy. Huge difference.
 
2012-04-15 04:50:55 PM

SuperT: still, If I were building a team using players from all eras, I'd probably pick Joe Morgan or Roger hornsby at 2b before robinson.


Oh, I would too. But Robinson was most likely the best "all around" 2B in the game's history. Power, speed, contact, ability to walk, and good defense. That doesn't mean he was the best 2B, but it certainly puts him up there.

SuperT: I still think that it is a shame that 42 is the only number retired league wide. why not 3, 4, 9, and 14 (when he dies and thus the ban is lifted).


Eh, I'm not a fan of having any numbers retired league wide. If the guy never wore the uniform, why should that uniform be retired?
 
2012-04-15 04:55:27 PM

turtle553: muck4doo: muck4doo: The Redskins were the last team in football to accept black players. Were they the last of any major team in American sports to do so? The Cowboys Chicken Club (new window) would troll the Redskins hard about their racism during their first two seasons, which led to it being the greatest rivalry in the NFL to this day. Though this off season the Giants are now trying hard to be the biggest douches in the NFC East.

Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?

I'm sure there are some hockey teams that have yet to integrate. Not sure if their racist or not.


Actually, Nat X has addressed this issue (new window; look at second post).
 
2012-04-15 04:56:10 PM
DeWayne Mann:
Eh, I'm not a fan of having any numbers retired league wide. If the guy never wore the uniform, why should that uniform be retired?

I dunno, I like that no NHL player will ever wear 99. It's like when a guy in the nba wears 23, it just rubs me the wrong way.
 
2012-04-15 04:57:07 PM

Rex_Banner: For his career, he hit .311/.409/.474, which comes out to a 131 OPS+. That puts him right around guys like this:


To look at it another way, hey, check this out:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=Zldyu
 
2012-04-15 04:57:25 PM
www.fompy.net
 
2012-04-15 04:57:55 PM

9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.


Baseball HOF is possibly the worst of all HOFs.'

DeWayne Mann: SuperT: still, If I were building a team using players from all eras, I'd probably pick Joe Morgan or Roger hornsby at 2b before robinson.

Oh, I would too. But Robinson was most likely the best "all around" 2B in the game's history. Power, speed, contact, ability to walk, and good defense. That doesn't mean he was the best 2B, but it certainly puts him up there.



Joe Carter disagrees...just ask him. He is the only 2b that should be in the HOF...ever
 
2012-04-15 05:00:11 PM

generaltimmy: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.

Baseball HOF is possibly the worst of all HOFs.'


I dunno about that...

www.sportressofblogitude.com
 
2012-04-15 05:01:08 PM

DeWayne Mann: DeWayne Mann: muck4doo: Anyone know which team was the last in American pro sports to be open to having a black guy on the team, or was it indeed the Redskins?

Far as I know, it's the Red Sox.

Sorry, misread when the Redskins integrated. They were indeed later than the Sox.


Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate. It didn't truly start to consistently sign black players until the '90s. That largely explains why Boston had a 90-year gap between World Series champions.
 
2012-04-15 05:02:52 PM

SuperT: DeWayne Mann:
Eh, I'm not a fan of having any numbers retired league wide. If the guy never wore the uniform, why should that uniform be retired?

I dunno, I like that no NHL player will ever wear 99. It's like when a guy in the nba wears 23, it just rubs me the wrong way.


I like the idea of being able to wear a number to honor a player.

'Course, I'm annoyed by the fact that everyone HAS to wear 42 today, so I'm probably a crazy person.
 
2012-04-15 05:06:26 PM

generaltimmy: Baseball HOF is possibly the worst of all HOFs.'


I really, really doubt that. Obviously, there's no way to do this objectively, but both the NFL & NBA halls seem to be really, really bad. The NHL seems good.

generaltimmy: Joe Carter disagrees...just ask him. He is the only 2b that should be in the HOF...ever


Although Joe Carter did play 2 innings at second, I think you might've meant Joe Morgan.

But Morgan actually says he's not the best 2B ever.

Lord Jubjub: Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate. It didn't truly start to consistently sign black players until the '90s. That largely explains why Boston had a 90-year gap between World Series champions.


Oh, I know all about the Sox & Yawkey's stupid racism messing everything up. They had early shots at both Robinson & Mays and declined.
 
2012-04-15 05:06:46 PM

CruiserTwelve: He fixes the cable?


Don't be fatuous
 
2012-04-15 05:10:33 PM

generaltimmy: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.

Baseball HOF is possibly the worst of all HOFs.'

DeWayne Mann: SuperT: still, If I were building a team using players from all eras, I'd probably pick Joe Morgan or Roger hornsby at 2b before robinson.

Oh, I would too. But Robinson was most likely the best "all around" 2B in the game's history. Power, speed, contact, ability to walk, and good defense. That doesn't mean he was the best 2B, but it certainly puts him up there.



Joe Carter disagrees...just ask him. He is the only 2b that should be in the HOF...ever


ummmm....
 
2012-04-15 05:14:01 PM
The game was also a no-hitter! Well, for Jackie it was a no-hitter.
 
2012-04-15 05:14:20 PM

DeWayne Mann: generaltimmy: Baseball HOF is possibly the worst of all HOFs.'

I really, really doubt that. Obviously, there's no way to do this objectively, but both the NFL & NBA halls seem to be really, really bad. The NHL seems good.

generaltimmy: Joe Carter disagrees...just ask him. He is the only 2b that should be in the HOF...ever

Although Joe Carter did play 2 innings at second, I think you might've meant Joe Morgan.

But Morgan actually says he's not the best 2B ever.

Lord Jubjub: Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate. It didn't truly start to consistently sign black players until the '90s. That largely explains why Boston had a 90-year gap between World Series champions.

Oh, I know all about the Sox & Yawkey's stupid racism messing everything up. They had early shots at both Robinson & Mays and declined.


The racism with the Red Sox and Redskins was done before most of their fans were born. However, I'm glad it was called out. The Cowboys Chicken Club will always be heroes to me in that regard. How bad is it that people in Dallas were trying to get people in Washington D.C. to stop being such racist assholes?
 
2012-04-15 05:17:57 PM

9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.


Hey, numbnuts: he didn't get to play until his age 28 year. He was a middle infielder. I'm sure you know nothing about positional adjustments or advanced statistics, but it's simple: when he was 30, he was the best player in the major leagues who wasn't named Ted Williams. By almost any metric that accurately quantifies player value

Why don't you go lurk in some more Trayvon threads, you animal?
 
2012-04-15 05:18:26 PM

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: For his career, he hit .311/.409/.474, which comes out to a 131 OPS+. That puts him right around guys like this:

To look at it another way, hey, check this out:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=Zldyu


I just saw that on twitter. Cool stuff.

DeWayne Mann: I like the idea of being able to wear a number to honor a player.

'Course, I'm annoyed by the fact that everyone HAS to wear 42 today, so I'm probably a crazy person.


I'm not a fan of retiring it across the game, but I like that everyone wears it today
 
2012-04-15 05:19:27 PM

Halfzware_Shag: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

Hey, numbnuts: he didn't get to play until his age 28 year. He was a middle infielder. I'm sure you know nothing about positional adjustments or advanced statistics, but it's simple: when he was 30, he was the best player in the major leagues who wasn't named Ted Williams. By almost any metric that accurately quantifies player value

Why don't you go lurk in some more Trayvon threads, you animal?


Well put. I was just ignoring the guy, because i didn't have the words to say.
 
2012-04-15 05:20:54 PM

Rex_Banner: I just saw that on twitter. Cool stuff.


That's where I got it from, so, yep.

Rex_Banner: I'm not a fan of retiring it across the game, but I like that everyone wears it today


Oh, I'm all for letting people wear it if they want (the way it was a few years ago), but forcing everyone just seems stupid.
 
2012-04-15 05:22:19 PM
Link (new window)

SuperT: still, If I were building a team using players from all eras, I'd probably pick Joe Morgan or Roger hornsby at 2b before robinson.


You can still pick Joe Morgan.

if you want a great deal on a new Honda... Link (new window)

/Oh. And the Reds just beat the Nationals. When they were forced to pitch to Votto, he made them very sad.
 
2012-04-15 05:23:00 PM

muck4doo: DeWayne Mann: generaltimmy: Baseball HOF is possibly the worst of all HOFs.'

I really, really doubt that. Obviously, there's no way to do this objectively, but both the NFL & NBA halls seem to be really, really bad. The NHL seems good.

generaltimmy: Joe Carter disagrees...just ask him. He is the only 2b that should be in the HOF...ever

Although Joe Carter did play 2 innings at second, I think you might've meant Joe Morgan.

But Morgan actually says he's not the best 2B ever.

Lord Jubjub: Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate. It didn't truly start to consistently sign black players until the '90s. That largely explains why Boston had a 90-year gap between World Series champions.

Oh, I know all about the Sox & Yawkey's stupid racism messing everything up. They had early shots at both Robinson & Mays and declined.

The racism with the Red Sox and Redskins was done before most of their fans were born. However, I'm glad it was called out. The Cowboys Chicken Club will always be heroes to me in that regard. How bad is it that people in Dallas were trying to get people in Washington D.C. to stop being such racist assholes?


I don't know - at one time, D.C. was notorious for being racist - Leadbelly even wrote a song about it:
"Bourgeois Blues"

Lord, in a bourgeois town
It's a bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around

Home of the brave, land of the free
I don't wanna be mistreated by no bourgeoisie
Lord, in a bourgeois town
Uhm, the bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around

Well, me and my wife we were standing upstairs
We heard the white man say "I don't want no n****rs up there"
Lord, in a bourgeois town
Uhm, bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around

Well, them white folks in Washington they know how
To call a colored man a n****r just to see him bow
Lord, it's a bourgeois town
Uhm, the bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around

I tell all the colored folks to listen to me
Don't try to find you no home in Washington, DC
`Cause it's a bourgeois town
Uhm, the bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around
 
2012-04-15 05:26:25 PM

Halfzware_Shag: when he was 30, he was the best player in the major leagues who wasn't named Ted Williams.


That would have been the 1949 season. Stan Musial might have to disagree with your comment.
 
2012-04-15 05:28:43 PM

jso2897: muck4doo: DeWayne Mann: generaltimmy: Baseball HOF is possibly the worst of all HOFs.'

I really, really doubt that. Obviously, there's no way to do this objectively, but both the NFL & NBA halls seem to be really, really bad. The NHL seems good.

generaltimmy: Joe Carter disagrees...just ask him. He is the only 2b that should be in the HOF...ever

Although Joe Carter did play 2 innings at second, I think you might've meant Joe Morgan.

But Morgan actually says he's not the best 2B ever.

Lord Jubjub: Red Sox were the last MLB team to integrate. It didn't truly start to consistently sign black players until the '90s. That largely explains why Boston had a 90-year gap between World Series champions.

Oh, I know all about the Sox & Yawkey's stupid racism messing everything up. They had early shots at both Robinson & Mays and declined.

The racism with the Red Sox and Redskins was done before most of their fans were born. However, I'm glad it was called out. The Cowboys Chicken Club will always be heroes to me in that regard. How bad is it that people in Dallas were trying to get people in Washington D.C. to stop being such racist assholes?

I don't know - at one time, D.C. was notorious for being racist - Leadbelly even wrote a song about it:
"Bourgeois Blues"

Lord, in a bourgeois town
It's a bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around

Home of the brave, land of the free
I don't wanna be mistreated by no bourgeoisie
Lord, in a bourgeois town
Uhm, the bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around

Well, me and my wife we were standing upstairs
We heard the white man say "I don't want no n****rs up there"
Lord, in a bourgeois town
Uhm, bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news all around

Well, them white folks in Washington they know how
To call a colored man a n****r just to see him bow
Lord, it's a bourgeois town
Uhm, the bourgeois town
I got the bourgeois blues
Gonna spread the news ...


I lived in Arlington and worked in Alexandria for six months in early 1988. I absolutely hated that place. Something just seemed wrong with everyone there. A favorite moment was when one retard asked me where I was from. I told him San Jose, and the Bay Area. He then went on a long rant about how the people of Washington D.C. are so much more open minded than the people of the San Francisco Bay Area.
 
2012-04-15 05:29:39 PM
Bruce Willis dies?
 
2012-04-15 05:29:59 PM

9beers: Halfzware_Shag: when he was 30, he was the best player in the major leagues who wasn't named Ted Williams.

That would have been the 1949 season. Stan Musial might have to disagree with your comment.


Baseball reference has Robinson as number 1 in WAR. Fangraphs has him at 2 (behind Williams). Both sites have Musial at 3.

But seeing how you still like RBI, I'm sure that means nothing to you.
 
2012-04-15 05:36:18 PM

DeWayne Mann: But seeing how you still like RBI, I'm sure that means nothing to you.


RBI and RS are the two stats that matter.
 
2012-04-15 05:37:31 PM
By the way, Mattingly has career averages that are almost identical to Robinson and isn't in the HoF.
 
2012-04-15 05:37:35 PM

9beers: DeWayne Mann: But seeing how you still like RBI, I'm sure that means nothing to you.

RBI and RS are the two stats that matter.


RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT

Vinnie Castilla: 2004 MVP
 
2012-04-15 05:38:29 PM

9beers: By the way, Mattingly has career averages that are almost identical to Robinson and isn't in the HoF.


I missed the part where he played ~750 games at second base.
 
2012-04-15 05:43:57 PM
I'd like to give a big thank you to Larry Doby who never gets the credit he deserves. He was the second black player to play in the majors (1st player in the American League and 11 weeks after Robinson) who had to go through all the same crap Jackie Robinson did but never gets any media attention.
 
2012-04-15 05:45:40 PM

The water was cold: foo monkey: He was 28. Hardly a kid.

I'm just glad, for subbys sake, that he chose the word "kid" instead of another word which happens to mean "a young male".


oh, that would have been a great headline.
 
2012-04-15 05:56:26 PM
not to diminish his yadda yadda yadda.. but making everyone wear #42 does nothing to honor robinson, and everything to annoy people trying to watch the friggin game.
 
2012-04-15 05:57:30 PM

OldShoeMan: I'd like to give a big thank you to Larry Doby who never gets the credit he deserves. He was the second black player to play in the majors (1st player in the American League and 11 weeks after Robinson) who had to go through all the same crap Jackie Robinson did but never gets any media attention.


It's a classic case of Alan Bean Syndrome.
 
2012-04-15 06:00:51 PM

9beers: That would have been the 1949 season. Stan Musial might have to disagree with your comment.


I guess if you're going to persist in being a dolt, we'll have to look at that pesky positional adjustment topic.

In a season split between center, Stan did terrifically well: .338/.438/.624. His 36 HR added a good deal to that impressive slugging percentage. By any standard, 90 extra base hits is a tremendous 157-game total. Keep in mind, though, that Stan split his time between center field and right field. Outfield positions (and especially RF and LF) contribute more offensive value than middle infield positions. Think of Ralph Kiner, Duke Snider, Bobby Thomson, Enos Slaughter, Carl Furillo.

Robinson, on the other hand, should be compared against middle infielders. Outside of his teammate Pee Wee Reese, no 1949 middle infield NLer ranks anywhere near the guys above in terms of raw numbers. So while Robinson's line (.342/.432/.528) isn't quite as shiny as Musial's (though you'd really have to have an agenda to be so fixated on this), you need to compare Robinson to his middle infield peers to understand the value he gave Brooklyn that year. And you can keep in mind that while he only had 66 XBH (again, to Musial's 90), he stole 34 more bases than Musial. It's impossible to quantify the value that adds precisely without knowing how many times each men was caught stealing.

1949 NL 2B (those who got most inning at position by team)

Red Schoendienst: .297/.351/.356 OPS 707
Eddie Miller: .207/.294/.320 OPS 614
Eddie Stanky: .285/.417/.358 OPS 775
Hank Thompson: .280/.377/.444 OPS 821
Monty Basgall: .218/.291/.273 OPS 564
Jimmy Bloodworth: .261/.304/.385 OPS 689
Emil Verban: .289/.309/.327 OPS 636
Robinson: .342/.432/.528 OPS 960

Musial was definitely stronger than his peer NL corner outfielders. But not nearly by more than an entire standard deviation from the mean (as Robinson was relative to other 2B). Granted, my quick calculation doesn't factor in playing time.

So basically, go lurk in a Trayvon thread, you animal.
 
2012-04-15 06:04:13 PM
Thread over in three, as far as I'm concerned:

FirstNationalBastard: He damaged his throwing arm, got traded to the Giants in 1950, played until the end of the 1951 season, coached the Fair Oaks American Legion team, and was a scout for the Cubs for over 20 years.

He died November 6, 2003.

And that's the story of Spider Jorgensen, a fine young player who first put on a Brooklyn Dodgers uniform on April 15, 1947.


/Sorry not to have trusted you, FNB, but I had to look this one up--I'd never heard of him before.
 
2012-04-15 06:09:07 PM
Why are people still replying to six pack and a half?
 
2012-04-15 06:09:10 PM

9beers: By the way, Mattingly has career averages that are almost identical to Robinson and isn't in the HoF.


I freaking love Don Mattingly. The man was my hero when I was a kid, and he's still my favorite ball player of all time. And even I admit that comparing him to Jackie Robinson is absolutely ridiculous.
 
2012-04-15 06:11:49 PM

libranoelrose: Why are people still replying to six pack and a half?


Because he is there. I'm a Conservative, and the guy just plain embarrasses me.
 
2012-04-15 06:11:53 PM

libranoelrose: Why are people still replying to six pack and a half?


Can't speak for anyone else, but as I said earlier, I don't want someone reading his stupidity and thinking he's even close to right.

Not like I have anything better to do.
 
2012-04-15 06:11:57 PM

DeWayne Mann: Oh, I'm all for letting people wear it if they want (the way it was a few years ago), but forcing everyone just seems stupid.


I would be ok with it being optional I guess
 
2012-04-15 06:12:01 PM

sharkbeagle: Oh right I had forgotten that literally every reference to anything in the MLB has to be some sort of commemoration of Jackie Robinson. Has been for a few years, including Jackie Robinson patches on uniforms of teams that didn't even exist back then. You know, because there aren't any minorities in the MLB. I hope the time comes when we have to add 20% to the stats of all black players in the name of affirmative action.


Man, why did Jackie Robinson have to be black? Kinda ruined baseball for me.
 
2012-04-15 06:12:34 PM

libranoelrose: Why are people still replying to six pack and a half?


I have no life. That's why

/pity me
 
2012-04-15 06:17:46 PM

Halfzware_Shag: I guess if you're going to persist in being a dolt, we'll have to look at that pesky positional adjustment topic.


Keep in mind 9beers posted that Trayvon Martin was a violent thug and Zimmerman deserved an award for killing him. He's a vile racist from way back.
 
2012-04-15 06:18:00 PM
Oh, OK.
 
2012-04-15 06:29:29 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: 42


I noticed that when we were at the restaurant earlier. I thought it was a Douglas Adams thing at first.
 
2012-04-15 06:39:23 PM

DavidVincent: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The water was cold: foo monkey: He was 28. Hardly a kid.

I'm just glad, for subbys sake, that he chose the word "kid" instead of another word which happens to mean "a young male".

Lad?

Chap?


Porch monkey?

/It's okay, I'm taking it back.
 
2012-04-15 06:47:31 PM
Other cool things Jackie did:

1. Lettered in four sports at UCLA. Was leading RB on Rose Bowl team.
2. faced Army court-martial during WWII for refusing to sit in the back of Army bus at Ft. Riley, KS during WWII.

Not-so-cool thing Jackie Robinson did:

1. Campaigned for Richard Nixon.
 
2012-04-15 06:51:56 PM

libranoelrose: Why are people still replying to six pack and a half?


Rosie, I have no idea why anyone engages that guy. It seems that he always shows up to make sure that white people aren't being discriminated against. He's probably one of those dudes who feels that it's unfair that black folks cans use the word "ni[BONG]", but when a white person says it, they're unfairly called a racist. I haven't put him on ignore, but I always wonder why anyone bothers to initiate arguments with him.
 
2012-04-15 07:09:12 PM

Nofun McKilljoy: nunpunter: Negro's in baseball?! Why next thing you know, women will be in trousers!

this must stop immediately! quick notify the constabulary!


Chicago must think this way. Neither the Cubs or Sox have an african-american on their roster.
 
2012-04-15 07:09:20 PM

NightOwl2255: Keep in mind 9beers posted that Trayvon Martin was a violent thug and Zimmerman deserved an award for killing him. He's a vile racist from way back.


We this post coming from you isn't all that unexpected.
 
2012-04-15 07:22:49 PM

mazzz: 9beers

Baseball nerds need to consider the impact a player had on the game, and that often goes far beyond stats. Not sure what point you're tying to make.


His point is he doesnt like black people.
 
2012-04-15 07:24:14 PM

henryhill: mazzz: 9beers

Baseball nerds need to consider the impact a player had on the game, and that often goes far beyond stats. Not sure what point you're tying to make.

His point is he doesnt like black people.


And he doesn't understand how baseball stats work. Don't forget that.
 
2012-04-15 07:28:54 PM
The Fark racism brigade has gone of the deep end.
 
2012-04-15 07:38:09 PM

DeWayne Mann: henryhill: mazzz: 9beers

Baseball nerds need to consider the impact a player had on the game, and that often goes far beyond stats. Not sure what point you're tying to make.

His point is he doesnt like black people.

And he doesn't understand how baseball stats work. Don't forget that.


But mainly, he doesn't like black people.

BTW, 9beers created a troll account on Christmas Day. Sad troll is sad.
 
2012-04-15 07:39:50 PM
My Uncle Joe played in the Dodgers farm system right after WWII, but had to stop after developing Phlebitis. He still loves his Dodgers.
 
2012-04-15 07:40:43 PM

stoli n coke: DeWayne Mann: henryhill: mazzz: 9beers

Baseball nerds need to consider the impact a player had on the game, and that often goes far beyond stats. Not sure what point you're tying to make.

His point is he doesnt like black people.

And he doesn't understand how baseball stats work. Don't forget that.

But mainly, he doesn't like black people.


Oh, I get that. But I was partially responding to this part:

mazzz: Baseball nerds need to consider the impact a player had on the game, and that often goes far beyond stats


The troll isn't a baseball nerd, and doesn't know how stats work. So as a baseball nerd (and one who understands the importance of Jackie all around), I don't want him lumped in with us.
 
2012-04-15 07:41:37 PM

9beers: The Fark racism brigade has gone of the deep end.


Yes, you're here. As expected. Fight the power, my white brother!
 
2012-04-15 07:44:53 PM

stoli n coke: BTW, 9beers created a troll account on Christmas Day. Sad troll is sad.


Hear that everybody? If you posted on Fark on Christmas day, you're a sad, pathetic loser. This guy says so.
 
2012-04-15 07:50:30 PM
Was it Pete Rose? I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASEBALL AND I DON'T WANT TO READ THE ARTICLE.
 
2012-04-15 07:59:36 PM

9beers: The Fark racism brigade has gone of the deep end.


Yes, you should stop it now.
 
2012-04-15 08:04:17 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: CruiserTwelve: He fixes the cable?

They didn't have cable 65 years ago, numbnuts.


they had it in 1948 (new window)
 
2012-04-15 08:09:21 PM

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player. (with stats that ignore that Jackie didn't start until age 28)

DIE, TROLL. DIE. JUST DIE. We get it about you from your posts about Obama and Trayvon Martin. You really hate African-Americans and will George Zimmerman at them online any chance you get. Well everyone on this thread knows your game and has no more point in reading anything else by you and will put you on ignore.

 
2012-04-15 08:11:23 PM
Let's not forget Larry Doby, first black player in the American League, who also had it tough.
 
2012-04-15 08:18:23 PM
What? You're not really going to steal home, are you Jackie Robinson? Sure, take a lead off from third. Huh? There he goes, he's there. Jackie Robinson just stole home in this first game of the 1955 World Series against the Yankees, and Yogi Berra is arguing with the umpire.......
 
2012-04-15 08:18:35 PM

Kevin72: DeWayne Mann: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player. (with stats that ignore that Jackie didn't start until age 28)

DIE, TROLL. DIE. JUST DIE. We get it about you from your posts about Obama and Trayvon Martin. You really hate African-Americans and will George Zimmerman at them online any chance you get. Well everyone on this thread knows your game and has no more point in reading anything else by you and will put you on ignore.


Man, I gotta stop trolling. Don't want everyone putting me on ignore.

Wait...
 
2012-04-15 08:21:59 PM
Jackie Robinson did a helluva job paving the way for Hispanics into baseball.
 
2012-04-15 08:26:27 PM
The best "unknown" player in MLB history, Willie McGee, would likely have been a nobody in baseball and society if it weren't for Jackie.

Hey look...I have a RotY award, two batting titles, three gold gloves, a MVP award, a Silver Slugger award, four All-Star appearances, a World Series ring, played for 18 years in the Bigs, and you "lads" don't even know who I am...

And since he retired after 1999? An amazing individual in society.
 
2012-04-15 08:28:14 PM
DeWayne Mann: Kevin72: DeWayne Mann: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player. (with stats that ignore that Jackie didn't start until age 28)
DIE, TROLL. DIE. JUST DIE. We get it about you from your posts about Obama and Trayvon Martin. You really hate African-Americans and will George Zimmerman at them online any chance you get. Well everyone on this thread knows your game and has no more point in reading anything else by you and will put you on ignore.

Man, I gotta stop trolling. Don't want everyone putting me on ignore.
Wait...


Sorry DeWayne Mann. Hey folks, 9beers is the troll to ignore. DeWayne just got caught in the crossfire having to debunk 9beers' crap.
 
2012-04-15 08:33:20 PM

9beers: stoli n coke: BTW, 9beers created a troll account on Christmas Day. Sad troll is sad.

Hear that everybody? If you posted on Fark on Christmas day, you're a sad, pathetic loser. This guy says so.


JANE YOU IGNORANT SLUT! He said "created a troll account on Christmas Day", not "posted on".
 
2012-04-15 08:39:23 PM

DeWayne Mann: And, seriously, find me ANY second basemen with indisputably better numbers. Morgan? Nope: Robinson had a hitter BA/OBP. Carew? Nope: Robinson had more power (plus, Carew spent more games at first). Hornsby? Nope: Robinson had better speed. Collins? Again, not enough power.


I'm in no way questioning Robinson's HoF credentials, but Hornsby leads him in just about every statistical offensive measure. For someone with a sub-200 SB total, it's hard to write off a fairly substantial difference in hitting stats strictly due to speed when your sole criteria is "indisputably better numbers".

Let me put this another way, if I said that Lou Gehrig didn't have indisputably better numbers at first base compared to Frank Chance due to Chance's better speed, would you buy off on that line of reasoning (they were the first two players I came up with who had the same approximate difference in OBS+ as Robinson & Hornsby, at least among two Hall of Famers, in case you're wondering).
 
2012-04-15 08:41:24 PM

Civil_War2_Time: The best "unknown" player in MLB history, Willie McGee


Oh, now you've done it. You're gonna make me figure out a way of figuring out who the best "unknown" player in history was.

It's not McGee. I'm fairly confident of that. McGee was good...but dude had a 100 OPS+. Even for a CF, I'm not impressed. No way he's the BEST.

But we're gonna need some rules. Obviously, any HOFer is right out. I might even argue that anyone who got more than a certain amount on their first HOF ballot would be out (nowadays, if you are low enough on the first, you're eliminated, but that wasn't always the case, as you'll soon see).

My first thought was Dom DiMaggio. Higher OPS+ than McGee, was only on 1.5% of the ballot his first year (vs 5% for McGee)...but he stayed on the ballot for 10 years (vs 2 for McGee), culminating with 11.3% in his last year. Plus, I've always assumed that being Joe's brother hurt Dom's visibility...but maybe I'm wrong.

Actually, stepping back a minute, if we allow HOFers, then the answer is Arky Vaughn. But I don't really think that's fair.

Hm....gonna have to think about this.

Kevin72: Sorry DeWayne Mann. Hey folks, 9beers is the troll to ignore. DeWayne just got caught in the crossfire having to debunk 9beers' crap.


Don't worry, y'all can ignore me if you want. I just post stupid stuff about baseball stats.
 
2012-04-15 08:46:46 PM

TheMatchHare: I'm in no way questioning Robinson's HoF credentials, but Hornsby leads him in just about every statistical offensive measure. For someone with a sub-200 SB total, it's hard to write off a fairly substantial difference in hitting stats strictly due to speed when your sole criteria is "indisputably better numbers".

Let me put this another way, if I said that Lou Gehrig didn't have indisputably better numbers at first base compared to Frank Chance due to Chance's better speed, would you buy off on that line of reasoning (they were the first two players I came up with who had the same approximate difference in OBS+ as Robinson & Hornsby, at least among two Hall of Famers, in case you're wondering).


You misunderstand.

Stupid troll posted a bunch of stats, including steals, and claimed that "lots of HOFers had better stats." My point was that no HOFer could beat Jackie in every stat the moron posted. Hornsby didn't beat Jackie in total steals OR average steals per year.

I'm not saying that Hornsby isn't a better 2B than Jackie. I already said that he was. I was merely pointing out that Mr. Troll is a gigantic liar.
 
2012-04-15 08:51:45 PM
DeWayne Mann I now have you favorited as "baseball stats guy". In Dodgers Blue, even though I have no idea if you're a Dodgers fan.
 
2012-04-15 08:52:11 PM

DeWayne Mann: TheMatchHare: I'm in no way questioning Robinson's HoF credentials, but Hornsby leads him in just about every statistical offensive measure. For someone with a sub-200 SB total, it's hard to write off a fairly substantial difference in hitting stats strictly due to speed when your sole criteria is "indisputably better numbers".

Let me put this another way, if I said that Lou Gehrig didn't have indisputably better numbers at first base compared to Frank Chance due to Chance's better speed, would you buy off on that line of reasoning (they were the first two players I came up with who had the same approximate difference in OBS+ as Robinson & Hornsby, at least among two Hall of Famers, in case you're wondering).

You misunderstand.

Stupid troll posted a bunch of stats, including steals, and claimed that "lots of HOFers had better stats." My point was that no HOFer could beat Jackie in every stat the moron posted. Hornsby didn't beat Jackie in total steals OR average steals per year.

I'm not saying that Hornsby isn't a better 2B than Jackie. I already said that he was. I was merely pointing out that Mr. Troll is a gigantic liar.


Indeed, I did misunderstand. That's what I get for only skimming the comments...
 
2012-04-15 08:52:50 PM

Kevin72: DeWayne Mann I now have you favorited as "baseball stats guy". In Dodgers Blue, even though I have no idea if you're a Dodgers fan.


Red Sox fan.

Though the Dodgers are ok. I like their pitching staff & OF.
 
2012-04-15 08:53:29 PM

TheMatchHare: Indeed, I did misunderstand. That's what I get for only skimming the comments...


No problem. It's a dumb argument anyway.
 
2012-04-15 09:13:38 PM

Kevin72: 9beers: stoli n coke: BTW, 9beers created a troll account on Christmas Day. Sad troll is sad.

Hear that everybody? If you posted on Fark on Christmas day, you're a sad, pathetic loser. This guy says so.

JANE YOU IGNORANT SLUT! He said "created a troll account on Christmas Day", not "posted on".


That's the kind of intellectual honesty I've come to expect from Christmas Troll.
 
2012-04-15 09:46:10 PM

9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.


.311 lifetime average not great? Jesus farking Christ on an aluminum farking crutch, what the fark are you smoking, dumbass? Also consider half his career was gone by the time he made it to the bigs. On the off chance you aren't trolling, you're stupider than runny mongoloid shiat.
 
Oak
2012-04-15 09:52:25 PM

Government Fromage: Nofun McKilljoy: nunpunter: Negro's in baseball?! Why next thing you know, women will be in trousers!

this must stop immediately! quick notify the constabulary!

Chicago must think this way. Neither the Cubs or Sox have an african-american on their roster.


cdn4.ngin.com
 
2012-04-15 09:55:48 PM

Tio_Holtzmann: 9beers: He was a good player but not a great player.

.311 lifetime average
1518 hits (151.8 per season)
137 home runs (13.7 per season)
734 RBI's (73.4 per season)
197 Stolen bases (19.7 per season)

Very respectable stats but not nearly good enough to be considered one of the greats. There are also a lot of players with equal or better stats that aren't in the HoF.

.311 lifetime average not great? Jesus farking Christ on an aluminum farking crutch, what the fark are you smoking, dumbass? Also consider half his career was gone by the time he made it to the bigs. On the off chance you aren't trolling, you're stupider than runny mongoloid shiat.


Pretty much. Most players would kill to hit .311 over a career.
 
2012-04-15 09:56:01 PM

Oak: Government Fromage: Nofun McKilljoy: nunpunter: Negro's in baseball?! Why next thing you know, women will be in trousers!

this must stop immediately! quick notify the constabulary!

Chicago must think this way. Neither the Cubs or Sox have an african-american on their roster.

[cdn4.ngin.com image 510x607]


Can we really count someone with a -31 OPS+ as being "on" the roster?
 
2012-04-15 10:03:29 PM
A .311 career average puts him in 99th place on the all-time list. If you want to consider that "great", so be it. In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.
 
2012-04-15 10:08:09 PM

9beers: A .311 career average puts him in 99th place on the all-time list. If you want to consider that "great", so be it. In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.


That's OK.

In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" trolls in Fark history and you aren't once of them.
 
2012-04-15 10:08:32 PM
I also wouldn't include Willie Mays or Hank Aaron on my list of all-time greats. You know, since I'm a racist.
 
2012-04-15 10:16:57 PM

9beers: In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.


Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

Anyone think it won't include both Ty Cobb AND Pete Rose?
 
2012-04-15 10:20:57 PM

SharkTrager: 9beers: A .311 career average puts him in 99th place on the all-time list. If you want to consider that "great", so be it. In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.

That's OK.

In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" trolls in Fark history and you aren't once of them.


Let it go, dude. Seriously.
 
2012-04-15 10:21:44 PM

9beers: I also wouldn't include Willie Mays or Hank Aaron on my list of all-time greats. You know, since I'm a racist.


Both of whom had lower batting averages than Jackie Robinson

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.

Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

Anyone think it won't include both Ty Cobb AND Pete Rose?


I was thinking the same thing
 
2012-04-15 10:22:49 PM

SharkTrager: In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" trolls in Fark history and you aren't once of them.


I agree, he hasn't been trolling long enough to be names among the greats. But his early works shows great promise. He's well on his way to upper echelon of trolls. He will have to expend from simple racist trolling, but I'm sure he has the chops to be a well rounded troll.
 
2012-04-15 10:24:04 PM

DeWayne Mann: Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.


How about you post your list of the top 20 players in baseball history. If it includes Robinson, that's how we'll know that you know nothing about baseball.
 
2012-04-15 10:24:13 PM

9beers: The Fark racism brigade has gone of the deep end.


Always is off the deep end.

The most amusing thing is all too many on Fark biatch about MSM yet every one of them knows all about what happened in Sanford from MSM articles.

/Don't mess with me, I'm a white hispanic
 
2012-04-15 10:25:27 PM

9beers: A .311 career average puts him in 99th place on the all-time list. If you want to consider that "great", so be it. In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.


9beers: I also wouldn't include Willie Mays or Hank Aaron on my list of all-time greats. You know, since I'm a racist.


Let's see that list.

/Ty Cobb will be there
//Archie Bunker
 
2012-04-15 10:25:40 PM
damn, gotta start using preview.
 
2012-04-15 10:26:21 PM

Rex_Banner: 9beers: I also wouldn't include Willie Mays or Hank Aaron on my list of all-time greats. You know, since I'm a racist.

Both of whom had lower batting averages than Jackie Robinson

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.

Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

Anyone think it won't include both Ty Cobb AND Pete Rose?

I was thinking the same thing


Imma take a stab at this list.

Ty Cobb

Pete Rose

Barry Bonds (so he can prove he's not racist)

Rogers Hornsby since he's been mentioned in the thread twice as better than Jackie Robinson

Some random guy who won MVP when 9beers was 13.

Pete Rose again

Kennesaw Mountain Landis, even though he wasn't a player

The entire rest of the list will consist of slugging first basemen
 
2012-04-15 10:27:10 PM

W.C.fields forever: Ty Cobb will be there


You're kind of a moron if you don't think that Ty Cobb would be on a list of the 20 greatest players. Every baseball historian who has ever made a list would agree.
 
2012-04-15 10:30:02 PM
Here's the top 100 list from SABR. Link

By the way, if you don't know what SABR stands for, you might not know as much about baseball as you think you do.
 
2012-04-15 10:30:15 PM

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: 9beers: I also wouldn't include Willie Mays or Hank Aaron on my list of all-time greats. You know, since I'm a racist.

Both of whom had lower batting averages than Jackie Robinson

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.

Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

Anyone think it won't include both Ty Cobb AND Pete Rose?

I was thinking the same thing

Imma take a stab at this list.

Ty Cobb

Pete Rose

Barry Bonds (so he can prove he's not racist)

Rogers Hornsby since he's been mentioned in the thread twice as better than Jackie Robinson

Some random guy who won MVP when 9beers was 13.

Pete Rose again

Kennesaw Mountain Landis, even though he wasn't a player

The entire rest of the list will consist of slugging first basemen


Luke Scott would definitely make his list
 
2012-04-15 10:31:34 PM

9beers: Here's the top 100 list from SABR. Link

By the way, if you don't know what SABR stands for, you might not know as much about baseball as you think you do.


That's the funniest post of the thread. Well done
 
2012-04-15 10:32:33 PM

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.

Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

Anyone think it won't include both Ty Cobb AND Pete Rose?


Ty Cobb might have been an awful human being, as evidenced by the fact that he was universally hated both by baseball and his own family, but you can't say he wasn't one of the greatest players ever.

The fact that no one has come close to beating his batting average all these years later is proof of that.

Of course, it's not doing him much good in Hell, but hey.
 
2012-04-15 10:34:00 PM

KidneyStone: 9beers: The Fark racism brigade has gone of the deep end.

Always is off the deep end.

The most amusing thing is all too many on Fark biatch about MSM yet every one of them knows all about what happened in Sanford from MSM articles.

/Don't mess with me, I'm a white hispanic


And I am puerto rican/italian,which would make me to lazy to kill you.
 
2012-04-15 10:37:32 PM

9beers: W.C.fields forever: Ty Cobb will be there

You're kind of a moron if you don't think that Ty Cobb would be on a list of the 20 greatest players. Every baseball historian who has ever made a list would agree.


Ty Cobb was a racist

/you maroon
 
2012-04-15 10:41:25 PM

9beers: DeWayne Mann: Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

How about you post your list of the top 20 players in baseball history. If it includes Robinson, that's how we'll know that you know nothing about baseball.


Yes, that's the deciding factor on baseball knowledge.

Still, I'm bored, and the baseball game I'm watching is pissing me off, so I'll take a stab at it. I'll stick to position players only, since I don't want to deal with comparing pitchers to hitters. I'm no particular order (only numbered to verify I have 20)

1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ted Williams
4. Honus Wagner
5. Willie Mays
6. Rickey Henderson
7. Stan Musial
8. Rogers Hornsby
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Jimmie Foxx
11. Mike Schmidt
12. Hank Aaron
13. Ty Cobb
14. Mickey Mantle
15. Joe Morgan
16. Arky Vaughan
17. Mel Ott
18. Eddie Mathews
19. Tris Speaker
20. Johnny Bench

I'm fairly positive I'm forgetting one or two people (but not DiMaggio or Rose. I'm leaving them off on purpose. NO ONE TELL ME I FORGOT THEM). And I'm probably only listing Arky because I mentioned him earlier (though, really, he was SO GOOD AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO HE IS). Jackie Robinson is probably the next 2B, though it's close between him, Lajoie & Collins.

Course, I also think there have been more than 20 great players all time.
 
2012-04-15 10:44:24 PM

W.C.fields forever: Ty Cobb was a racist


Ty Cobb was an asshole and got in fights all the time. Getting in a fight with a black guy and his wife doesn't make him a racist.

Let me guess, you think Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes too, don't you?
 
2012-04-15 10:45:07 PM
Ooooooooooooooo...... Bob Gibson at #17 by SABR. 1968, game 1 of the World Series, and I come home from Sunday School or wherever and my father and his friends are watching the game on TV it's like they were watching a funeral. Finally someone says "It's not good". I walked into the game that Bob Gibson struck out 17 SEVENTEEN Tigers.
 
2012-04-15 10:45:23 PM

9beers: Here's the top 100 list from SABR. Link

By the way, if you don't know what SABR stands for, you might not know as much about baseball as you think you do.


Rex_Banner: 9beers: Here's the top 100 list from SABR. Link

By the way, if you don't know what SABR stands for, you might not know as much about baseball as you think you do.

That's the funniest post of the thread. Well done


Jackie is number 36. There are 10 pitchers in front of him. Jackie is therefore the 26th best hitter from that list.

I...

...

I just had a stroke again.

9beers: W.C.fields forever: Ty Cobb will be there

You're kind of a moron if you don't think that Ty Cobb would be on a list of the 20 greatest players. Every baseball historian who has ever made a list would agree.


stoli n coke: Ty Cobb might have been an awful human being, as evidenced by the fact that he was universally hated both by baseball and his own family, but you can't say he wasn't one of the greatest players ever.


Didn't say he didn't belong there, just that I was sure he'd be on 9beers list.

Still waiting on that list, btw.
 
2012-04-15 10:46:30 PM
/s

9beers: W.C.fields forever: Ty Cobb will be there

You're kind of a moron if you don't think that Ty Cobb would be on a list of the 20 greatest players. Every baseball historian who has ever made a list would agree.


Ty Cobb is at the top of the list.

/stop calling me names
 
2012-04-15 10:50:15 PM

DeWayne Mann: 15. Joe Morgan


i54.tinypic.com
 
2012-04-15 10:52:42 PM

9beers: DeWayne Mann: 15. Joe Morgan

[i54.tinypic.com image 175x110]


B-R has him 20th all time for position players in WAR...and 14th if you remove defense from the equation (which is weird, but ok).

I didn't even KNOW that when I made my list.

But, wait, I forgot to subtract 20 ranks because he's black. My bad.
 
2012-04-15 10:52:46 PM

Kevin72: Ooooooooooooooo...... Bob Gibson at #17 by SABR. 1968, game 1 of the World Series, and I come home from Sunday School or wherever and my father and his friends are watching the game on TV it's like they were watching a funeral. Finally someone says "It's not good". I walked into the game that Bob Gibson struck out 17 SEVENTEEN Tigers.


Oh, and why I said it was like a funeral and "not good" was because it was in Detroit, and we were Tigers fans, not because Bob Gibson is black, 9beers.
 
2012-04-15 10:58:40 PM

9beers: W.C.fields forever: Ty Cobb was a racist

Ty Cobb was an asshole and got in fights all the time. Getting in a fight with a black guy and his wife doesn't make him a racist.

Let me guess, you think Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes too, don't you?


In his later years he did say he was brought up that way.Regarding
sharpening the spikes too,don't you

/you have a lot of anger

//take the prozac in smaller doses
 
2012-04-15 10:59:31 PM

Kevin72: Oh, and why I said it was like a funeral and "not good" was because it was in Detroit, and we were Tigers fans, not because Bob Gibson is black, 9beers.


9beers will tell you that Bob Gibson was a violent thug. Unlike Denny McLain who was just a good, hard working man with a family that was trying to protect his team.
 
2012-04-15 11:00:31 PM

W.C.fields forever: In his later years he did say he was brought up that way.


And he went on to say that he was ok with black players IF THEY ACTED LIKE GENTLEMEN.

Not a requirement for white players, apparently.
 
2012-04-15 11:02:05 PM

W.C.fields forever: In his later years he did say he was brought up that way.Regarding
sharpening the spikes too,don't you



In his later years, he finally admitted that he had never sharpened his spikes. He let rumors persist during his playing career because it was just as effective as if he had actually sharpened them. Besides, he was an asshole and didn't care what people thought so he had no reason to dispel the rumors.
 
2012-04-15 11:04:58 PM

9beers: W.C.fields forever: Ty Cobb was a racist

Ty Cobb was an asshole and got in fights all the time. Getting in a fight with a black guy and his wife doesn't make him a racist.

Let me guess, you think Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes too, don't you?


If Cobb and Ruth and those other old timers had to play against blacks, they wouldn't have been shiat. The purpose of segregation was always to protect inferior whites from competition.
 
2012-04-15 11:12:16 PM
Besides, he was an asshole and didn't care what people thought so he had no reason to dispel the rumors.

kinda like you
 
2012-04-15 11:13:28 PM

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: DeWayne Mann: Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

How about you post your list of the top 20 players in baseball history. If it includes Robinson, that's how we'll know that you know nothing about baseball.

Yes, that's the deciding factor on baseball knowledge.

Still, I'm bored, and the baseball game I'm watching is pissing me off, so I'll take a stab at it. I'll stick to position players only, since I don't want to deal with comparing pitchers to hitters. I'm no particular order (only numbered to verify I have 20)

1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ted Williams
4. Honus Wagner
5. Willie Mays
6. Rickey Henderson
7. Stan Musial
8. Rogers Hornsby
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Jimmie Foxx
11. Mike Schmidt
12. Hank Aaron
13. Ty Cobb
14. Mickey Mantle
15. Joe Morgan
16. Arky Vaughan
17. Mel Ott
18. Eddie Mathews
19. Tris Speaker
20. Johnny Bench

I'm fairly positive I'm forgetting one or two people (but not DiMaggio or Rose. I'm leaving them off on purpose. NO ONE TELL ME I FORGOT THEM). And I'm probably only listing Arky because I mentioned him earlier (though, really, he was SO GOOD AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO HE IS). Jackie Robinson is probably the next 2B, though it's close between him, Lajoie & Collins.

Course, I also think there have been more than 20 great players all time.


lou at 9? are you on crack? juice head on the list at all? and I think you forgot rose(problem?) I don't think I'd have mick on my list of 20, maybe, but it would be close. I think pujols would have have to be on my list too. and as much as I hate arod, he'd be on there too.

Ruth is forever #1, 2-3 is some order of teddy ballgame and lou.
 
2012-04-15 11:13:36 PM

NightOwl2255: Kevin72: Oh, and why I said it was like a funeral and "not good" was because it was in Detroit, and we were Tigers fans, not because Bob Gibson is black, 9beers.

9beers will tell you that Bob Gibson was a violent thug. Unlike Denny McLain who was just a good, hard working man with a family that was trying to protect his team.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Denny Denny Denny WHY WHY WHY?????????????????????????
 
2012-04-15 11:18:49 PM

SuperT: lou at 9?


DeWayne Mann: I'm no particular order (only numbered to verify I have 20)


Yes, I had a typo/autocorrect issue, but, still, I think it was kinda obvious.

SuperT: juice head on the list at all?


See the steroids thread from a few days ago, I'm not gonna rehash all that.

SuperT: and I think you forgot rose(problem?)


DeWayne Mann: I'm fairly positive I'm forgetting one or two people (but not DiMaggio or Rose. I'm leaving them off on purpose. NO ONE TELL ME I FORGOT THEM)


facepalm

SuperT: I think pujols would have have to be on my list too. and as much as I hate arod, he'd be on there too.


Was leaving off current players on semi-purpose. Like to see a career finish before I rank them anywhere.

Also I'm confused about why you say yes to a-rod but no to barry. Did you forget about the whole a-rod HGH thing?
 
2012-04-15 11:23:01 PM

DeWayne Mann: SuperT: lou at 9?

DeWayne Mann: I'm no particular order (only numbered to verify I have 20)

Yes, I had a typo/autocorrect issue, but, still, I think it was kinda obvious.

SuperT: juice head on the list at all?

See the steroids thread from a few days ago, I'm not gonna rehash all that.

SuperT: and I think you forgot rose(problem?)

DeWayne Mann: I'm fairly positive I'm forgetting one or two people (but not DiMaggio or Rose. I'm leaving them off on purpose. NO ONE TELL ME I FORGOT THEM)

facepalm

SuperT: I think pujols would have have to be on my list too. and as much as I hate arod, he'd be on there too.

Was leaving off current players on semi-purpose. Like to see a career finish before I rank them anywhere.

Also I'm confused about why you say yes to a-rod but no to barry. Did you forget about the whole a-rod HGH thing?


actually, I did. arod off the list.

and I was trolling with the rose thing. geez.

and I didn't notice the 'no order thing' my bad.

but why leave off joltin joe and charlie hustle?
 
2012-04-15 11:24:11 PM

NightOwl2255: 9beers will tell you that Bob Gibson was a violent thug.


Link (new window)
 
2012-04-15 11:26:55 PM

9beers: NightOwl2255: 9beers will tell you that Bob Gibson was a violent thug.

Link (new window)


The way you stand around defending the indefensible is a testament unto how you will derp till the end.
 
2012-04-15 11:35:35 PM

9beers: NightOwl2255: 9beers will tell you that Bob Gibson was a violent thug.

Link (new window)


You have thread rage.Where is your freakin list.

/why isnt willie mays on your list
 
2012-04-15 11:37:02 PM

SuperT: and I was trolling with the rose thing. geez.


Sorry, been a long day.

SuperT: but why leave off joltin joe and charlie hustle?


DiMaggio is terribly overrated. If he wasn't a Yankee, he wouldn't be anywhere near as loved. I mean, let's compare him to Mantle, if only to even out the Yankee factor.

Mantle: .298/.421/.557, 172 OPS+
Dimaggio: .325/.398/.579, 155 OPS+

Defensive numbers from that long ago are really, really hard...but everything points to them being roughly equal.

DiMaggio had a better average, but everything else was worse, including ISO. You can argue that DiMaggio missed his peak due to the war...but so did Ted Williams, and he still managed a 190 OPS+. Yet that didn't stop DiMaggio from INSISTING he be introduced as the World's Greatest Living Ballplayer...while Williams was still alive.

And besides, he'd need his war seasons to be way over 200 OPS+ each to pass Mantle. That seems unlikely, especially if we assume Williams would be playing too.

Was DiMaggio bad? No. But I have no problem leaving him out of my top 20. Maybe he'd be in my top 30. Maybe.

As for Rose...dude did ONE thing well: hit singles. He sucked at running, but because he tried it a lot, everyone forgets (57% stolen base rate). He sucked at defense, but because he was willing to play any position on the field, everyone forgets (according to BR, he was way below average at everything but COF). He didn't hit for power, he didn't hit doubles (career ISO of .106). Just singles.

He played for awhile. That's neat. And he hit a lot of singles. That's neat too, I guess. But the only reason he has the hits record is because his gambling addicted manager played him way past the point he should've retired from playing.

I doubt he'd crack my top 50.
 
2012-04-15 11:38:52 PM

DeWayne Mann: He didn't hit for power, he didn't hit doubles (career ISO of .106). Just singles.


Err, I meant "He didn't hit HRs, he didn't hit doubles."

...Whatever.
 
2012-04-15 11:39:09 PM

DeWayne Mann: 9beers: DeWayne Mann: Oh man, I know you're still trolling, but I've GOT to see that list.

How about you post your list of the top 20 players in baseball history. If it includes Robinson, that's how we'll know that you know nothing about baseball.

Yes, that's the deciding factor on baseball knowledge.

Still, I'm bored, and the baseball game I'm watching is pissing me off, so I'll take a stab at it. I'll stick to position players only, since I don't want to deal with comparing pitchers to hitters. I'm no particular order (only numbered to verify I have 20)

1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ted Williams
4. Honus Wagner
5. Willie Mays
6. Rickey Henderson
7. Stan Musial
8. Rogers Hornsby
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Jimmie Foxx
11. Mike Schmidt
12. Hank Aaron
13. Ty Cobb
14. Mickey Mantle
15. Joe Morgan
16. Arky Vaughan
17. Mel Ott
18. Eddie Mathews
19. Tris Speaker
20. Johnny Bench

I'm fairly positive I'm forgetting one or two people (but not DiMaggio or Rose. I'm leaving them off on purpose. NO ONE TELL ME I FORGOT THEM). And I'm probably only listing Arky because I mentioned him earlier (though, really, he was SO GOOD AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO HE IS). Jackie Robinson is probably the next 2B, though it's close between him, Lajoie & Collins.

Course, I also think there have been more than 20 great players all time.


Only player I can think of adding is Brooks Robinson. Not a great hitter, but arguably the best fielder to ever play.
 
2012-04-15 11:40:43 PM

DeWayne Mann: SuperT: and I was trolling with the rose thing. geez.

Sorry, been a long day.

SuperT: but why leave off joltin joe and charlie hustle?

DiMaggio is terribly overrated. If he wasn't a Yankee, he wouldn't be anywhere near as loved. I mean, let's compare him to Mantle, if only to even out the Yankee factor.

Mantle: .298/.421/.557, 172 OPS+
Dimaggio: .325/.398/.579, 155 OPS+

Defensive numbers from that long ago are really, really hard...but everything points to them being roughly equal.

DiMaggio had a better average, but everything else was worse, including ISO. You can argue that DiMaggio missed his peak due to the war...but so did Ted Williams, and he still managed a 190 OPS+. Yet that didn't stop DiMaggio from INSISTING he be introduced as the World's Greatest Living Ballplayer...while Williams was still alive.

And besides, he'd need his war seasons to be way over 200 OPS+ each to pass Mantle. That seems unlikely, especially if we assume Williams would be playing too.

Was DiMaggio bad? No. But I have no problem leaving him out of my top 20. Maybe he'd be in my top 30. Maybe.

As for Rose...dude did ONE thing well: hit singles. He sucked at running, but because he tried it a lot, everyone forgets (57% stolen base rate). He sucked at defense, but because he was willing to play any position on the field, everyone forgets (according to BR, he was way below average at everything but COF). He didn't hit for power, he didn't hit doubles (career ISO of .106). Just singles.

He played for awhile. That's neat. And he hit a lot of singles. That's neat too, I guess. But the only reason he has the hits record is because his gambling addicted manager played him way past the point he should've retired from playing.

I doubt he'd crack my top 50.


All time hit leader. by a lot. that means something to me. I guess I lend more to intangibles than pure stats. and I wouldn't have joe in the top 5 or probably not 10. but 20, you betcha.

also, talking smack about pete rose around here will get ya killed. so keep that on the dl if you ever visit the queen city.
 
2012-04-15 11:45:36 PM

stoli n coke: Only player I can think of adding is Brooks Robinson. Not a great hitter, but arguably the best fielder to ever play.


I did consider him. But I figured Schmidt and Mathews were both WAY better than Brooks...and it's hard to justify putting the 3rd best 3rd baseman in the top 20 list when the other two guys were WAY better.

Besides: let's say Brooks Robinson really was the best fielder to ever play 3B. Then he's maybe worth as much defensively as a good or very good SS. If Arky Vaughan, who was supposedly pretty average defensively, and his 136 OPS+ was a "this guy was probably too high up", it's hard saying that Brooks and his 103 OPS+ would be better.

But, again, I did that list in like 4 minutes. I probably did miss a bunch.
 
2012-04-15 11:46:11 PM

DeWane Mann:

You would put Mike Schmidt over Ichiro?

 
2012-04-15 11:49:15 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: SharkTrager: 9beers: A .311 career average puts him in 99th place on the all-time list. If you want to consider that "great", so be it. In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" players in MLB history and Robinson isn't once of them.

That's OK.

In my opinion, there have been around 20 "great" trolls in Fark history and you aren't once of them.

Let it go, dude. Seriously.


Wouldn't it make more sense to castigate the posters who keep feeding him in this and every othe thread?
 
2012-04-15 11:53:18 PM
Yeah, the italics got away from me on that one. Blame the Basil Hayden.
 
2012-04-15 11:59:39 PM

DeWayne Mann: SuperT: and I was trolling with the rose thing. geez.

Sorry, been a long day.

SuperT: but why leave off joltin joe and charlie hustle?

DiMaggio is terribly overrated. If he wasn't a Yankee, he wouldn't be anywhere near as loved. I mean, let's compare him to Mantle, if only to even out the Yankee factor.

Mantle: .298/.421/.557, 172 OPS+
Dimaggio: .325/.398/.579, 155 OPS+

Defensive numbers from that long ago are really, really hard...but everything points to them being roughly equal.

DiMaggio had a better average, but everything else was worse, including ISO. You can argue that DiMaggio missed his peak due to the war...but so did Ted Williams, and he still managed a 190 OPS+. Yet that didn't stop DiMaggio from INSISTING he be introduced as the World's Greatest Living Ballplayer...while Williams was still alive.

And besides, he'd need his war seasons to be way over 200 OPS+ each to pass Mantle. That seems unlikely, especially if we assume Williams would be playing too.

Was DiMaggio bad? No. But I have no problem leaving him out of my top 20. Maybe he'd be in my top 30. Maybe.

As for Rose...dude did ONE thing well: hit singles. He sucked at running, but because he tried it a lot, everyone forgets (57% stolen base rate). He sucked at defense, but because he was willing to play any position on the field, everyone forgets (according to BR, he was way below average at everything but COF). He didn't hit for power, he didn't hit doubles (career ISO of .106). Just singles.

He played for awhile. That's neat. And he hit a lot of singles. That's neat too, I guess. But the only reason he has the hits record is because his gambling addicted manager played him way past the point he should've retired from playing.

I doubt he'd crack my top 50.


Joe D.Was my pops hero.My pop has been a Yankee fan for 75 yrs.Italian so
i can see that,you are my #'s guy.Joe D. had as many homeruns as strike outs.
To me thats crazy.Anyone better than that(300 hr.or more).And he was a right handed batter at yankee stadium

/mets fan,cuz pops took me to mets games
//he worked across the way
/// I root for the the yankees also,what ever makes pops happy makes me smile
 
2012-04-16 12:21:15 AM
Sorry, had to disappear for a few minutes. Did he post his list yet? No? I'm shocked.

SuperT: All time hit leader. by a lot. that means something to me. I guess I lend more to intangibles than pure stats. and I wouldn't have joe in the top 5 or probably not 10. but 20, you betcha.

also, talking smack about pete rose around here will get ya killed. so keep that on the dl if you ever visit the queen city.


FUN PETE ROSE STATS:

24th in XBH
First in batted outs (by MORE THAN A THOUSAND...and that doesn't count all of his CS)
I'd tell you where he is on the OPS+ leaderboard, EXCEPT HE'S NOT EVEN ON IT.
Despite his popular perception as a 2B/3B, the vast majority of his games were at 1B & LF....the two easiest defensive positions. And yet he still wasn't very good there.

I'm not going to say that there's no such thing as intangibles. But you can't seriously tell me that any amount of them can make up for all of those things.

For large portions of his career, he was decent at best. In the 80s, he was a bad defensive 1B with an OPS+ under 100. Pete Rose (the manager) was actively hurting his team by playing Pete Rose (the player). And, again, he WOULD NOT HAVE THE HITS RECORD if he wasn't the manager.

I get that people love him (i mean, seriously, look at the 1981 awards voting. HE WON THE 1B SILVER SLUGGER WITH A 119 OPS+ AND PLACED 10TH IN MVP). But it's completely undeserved in terms of what he actually did on the field.

And, for the record, I'd wager (haha, see what I did there?) something like 40 of my fark posts are talking smack about Rose, Nolan Ryan or both.

no talent ass clown: You would put Mike Schmidt over Ichiro?


I'm just gonna start stabbing people in this here thread. This isn't even funny anymore.

...ok, it's kinda funny. But, seriously, 114 OPS+ for a RF. NO.

A year or two ago, I did some crazy math and decided that Ichiro is roughly as valuable as Jay Bruce. I haven't seen much to change that assessment.

And before you say "But but but, HE PLAYED IN JAPAN FIRST," I'm not giving Jackie credit for the Negro Leagues either.

SharkTrager: Wouldn't it make more sense to castigate the posters who keep feeding him in this and every othe thread?


As I said, I doubt EVERYONE knows he was a troll. I've got nothing better to do, so I might as well try to stop people from trying to listen to him.

W.C.fields forever: Joe D.Was my pops hero.


That's cool. I love Tim Wakefield.

Tim Wakefield is probably not in my list of the top 100 pitchers.

(By the way, just because I try to link it as much as I can, this is a great article that perfectly explains why Wake is one of my favorites.)

W.C.fields forever: i can see that,you are my #'s guy.Joe D. had as many homeruns as strike outs.


That is a neat stat. Not the neatest (I think Musial's home/road splits are cooler), but very neat.

Thing is, I don't care about Ks as much as a lot of people. I care about OUTS in general. Joe didn't make a lot of them either...but he was still worse in that category than a lot of the other guys I mentioned. He's 63rd all time in OBP.
 
2012-04-16 12:22:16 AM

DeWayne Mann: And, for the record, I'd wager (haha, see what I did there?) something like 40 of my fark posts are talking smack about Rose, Nolan Ryan or both.


There was supposed to be a percent sign somewhere in this sentence.

Somewhere.
 
2012-04-16 12:49:37 AM
Enough about Jackie Robinson already. There were other black baseball players who played as well. Who was the 2nd? He had it just has hard didn't he? Arguably his arrival had more impact on the game because it showed that this wasn't something that was going to go away easily. You never hear about him though.
 
2012-04-16 12:50:19 AM

itsfullofstars: Enough about Jackie Robinson already. There were other black baseball players who played as well. Who was the 2nd? He had it just has hard didn't he? Arguably his arrival had more impact on the game because it showed that this wasn't something that was going to go away easily. You never hear about him though.


He's been mentioned several times in this thread.

But, no, we never talk about him.
 
2012-04-16 12:56:37 AM
He performed fellatio on the trick who'd paid him extra to wear that uniform, behind a dumpster?
 
2012-04-16 01:09:40 AM
Pete Rose's lifetime WAR value was 92. 92. That's the same as Joltin' Joe and George Brett. :| Albert Pujols is currently at 88. Just sayin'.

FWIW, Jackie Robinson's lifetime WAR is 62.

/has a Brooklyn Dodgers #42 jersey
//Ichiro! is awesome. I don't CARE what you say!
///I is a homer :P
 
2012-04-16 01:14:16 AM

itsfullofstars: Enough about Jackie Robinson already. There were other black baseball players who played as well. Who was the 2nd? He had it just has hard didn't he? Arguably his arrival had more impact on the game because it showed that this wasn't something that was going to go away easily. You never hear about him though.


Robinson was a cool guy that handled the situation with class, but yeah, he gets way too much credit. There were a lot of black players at the time that were working just as hard as he was to break into the majors and were subject to the same crap as Robinson. The people responsible for signing Robinson to a contract and making the decision to call him up to the majors deserve the credit for breaking the race barrier, Robinson just happened to be the first guy on the list.
 
2012-04-16 01:15:10 AM
DEWAYNE MAN

Again Joe D. played at yankee stadium,left field power alley like 460 ft.
My fav ball player was willie Mays.660 homeruns in san fran.Probably
could of hit 750.

/pops wants you to get off his lawn
 
2012-04-16 01:19:57 AM
I'm on my crappy tablet now, which doesn't let me quote or do a lot of other stuff, but...

What was Robinson's average WAR per season? What was rose's? Remember tha its actually kinda hard to put up a negative WAR (most people would be benched or demoted), and a WAR of 2 is roughly average.

Anyhoo, going to bed. Probably. Who knows?
 
2012-04-16 01:25:10 AM

9beers: itsfullofstars: Enough about Jackie Robinson already. There were other black baseball players who played as well. Who was the 2nd? He had it just has hard didn't he? Arguably his arrival had more impact on the game because it showed that this wasn't something that was going to go away easily. You never hear about him though.

Robinson was a cool guy that handled the situation with class, but yeah, he gets way too much credit. There were a lot of black players at the time that were working just as hard as he was to break into the majors and were subject to the same crap as Robinson. The people responsible for signing Robinson to a contract and making the decision to call him up to the majors deserve the credit for breaking the race barrier, Robinson just happened to be the first guy on the list.


There is more to it.Google Jackie Robinson.

/Whar list?? Whar
 
2012-04-16 01:44:35 AM

W.C.fields forever: There is more to it.Google Jackie Robinson.


Sure, he took a lot of abuse from some fans and players during the 1947 season but ultimately, it's not like he pulled a Rosa Parks or something similar. He was scouted out of the negro leagues just as a lot of other players were and just happened to be the first one called up.
 
2012-04-16 02:34:00 AM

9beers: it's not like he pulled a Rosa Parks or something similar.


LazyMF: Other cool things Jackie did:

1. Lettered in four sports at UCLA. Was leading RB on Rose Bowl team.
2. faced Army court-martial during WWII for refusing to sit in the back of Army bus at Ft. Riley, KS during WWII.

 
2012-04-16 02:41:56 AM

DeWayne Mann: DeWayne Mann:

Lemme tell you something about Joe DiMaggio. Dude almost never struck out. Amazingly, some years Joe got more homeruns than strikeouts. That is all.

 
2012-04-16 02:56:10 AM

steveGswine: 9beers: it's not like he pulled a Rosa Parks or something similar.

LazyMF: Other cool things Jackie did:

1. Lettered in four sports at UCLA. Was leading RB on Rose Bowl team.
2. faced Army court-martial during WWII for refusing to sit in the back of Army bus at Ft. Riley, KS during WWII.


9beers gets the "causing to happen what you're trying to avoid" award. Every attempt by him or her to minimize African-Americans has resulted in him or her being given an online swirlie* by the big kids. *Swirlie being defined as a kid forced to have his head placed in a toilet presumably with nothing in it and experiencing the flow of water while the toilet is being flushed.
 
2012-04-16 03:14:16 AM

Kevin72: steveGswine: 9beers: it's not like he pulled a Rosa Parks or something similar.

LazyMF: Other cool things Jackie did:

1. Lettered in four sports at UCLA. Was leading RB on Rose Bowl team.
2. faced Army court-martial during WWII for refusing to sit in the back of Army bus at Ft. Riley, KS during WWII.

9beers gets the "causing to happen what you're trying to avoid" award. Every attempt by him or her to minimize African-Americans has resulted in him or her being given an online swirlie* by the big kids. *Swirlie being defined as a kid forced to have his head placed in a toilet presumably with nothing in it and experiencing the flow of water while the toilet is being flushed.


Lol you sure told me. By the way, what does an incident from the Army have to do with my point about his entry into the majors? Oops, guess you got it wrong after all.
 
2012-04-16 04:33:36 AM
I'm surprised that 9Beers hasn't called him a racist and a race baiter for having dared to break the color barrier in baseball.
 
2012-04-16 06:32:23 AM

ongbok: I'm surprised that 9Beers hasn't called him a racist and a race baiter for having dared to break the color barrier in baseball.


If somebody doesn't green another George Zimmerman thread soon, he'll get around to it.
 
2012-04-16 08:06:33 AM
Baseball sucks.

Always has, always will.

But I will give Robinson credit for standing up to what must have been terrible abuse.
 
2012-04-16 08:19:04 AM

DeWayne Mann: DiMaggio is terribly overrated. If he wasn't a Yankee, he wouldn't be anywhere near as loved.


The man married Marylin Monroe. That alone makes him awesome
 
2012-04-16 08:24:59 AM

DeWayne Mann: He's been mentioned several times in this thread.


Nobody reads the the original article, why should we read the thread?
 
2012-04-16 09:28:17 AM

9beers: By the way, what does an incident from the Army have to do with my point about his entry into the majors?


See, most modern Americans would notice that Robinson stood on principle in the face of authority in both situations. He stared down the Army and refused to sit in the back of the bus, even after being led away by MPs and court-martialed.

That's braver than anything you've done in your life, Mr. Troll Account.

9beers: Sure, he took a lot of abuse from some fans and players during the 1947 season but ultimately, it's not like he pulled a Rosa Parks or something similar.


He faced down death threats and racial slurs every day, put his head down, and became one of the best baseball players of his era despite all the noise.

That's braver than anything you've done in your life, Mr. Troll Account.
 
2012-04-16 09:43:13 AM

DeWayne Mann: But we're gonna need some rules. Obviously, any HOFer is right out. I might even argue that anyone who got more than a certain amount on their first HOF ballot would be out (nowadays, if you are low enough on the first, you're eliminated, but that wasn't always the case, as you'll soon see).


Among actives, it's probably Chipper Jones. I mean, he's not an unknown by any standard. But he's in the top 50 all-time in Baseball-reference WAR (+82.7) despite all the injuries. And yet, if you stop a random baseball fan and ask them what active players should go in the HOF, he gets forgotten.

The guy he's tied with (Robin Roberts) is another good example. Excellent pitcher who toiled on a lot of bad teams.

For old-timers, I need to pick up the book about Old Hoss Radbourn's 1884 season.
 
2012-04-16 10:37:53 AM
Seems like groundhog day.

\some historical events are obliged to regular reminders as penance
 
2012-04-16 04:32:19 PM
Fidel Castro?



/no, i didn't ftra, why?
 
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