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(The Hollywood Reporter)   The producers of The Walking Dead reflect on a very different season two and what we can expect from season three. "We wanted to kill Herschel, but it wouldn't have done anything for us"   (hollywoodreporter.com) divider line 150
    More: Cool, Walking Dead, Jon Bernthal, Greg Nicotero, North Hollywood, Andrew Lincoln, Frank Darabont, Robert Kirkman, Sarah Wayne Callies  
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5642 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 14 Apr 2012 at 3:54 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-15 12:59:01 PM

Gaylord Q. Tinkledink: And yet another thread where fanboy losers keep watching a show they hate just so they can keep complaining about it.


=========================================================

Yeah, so what's your point? We have to do something to distract us from our sad, meaningless lives :P
 
2012-04-15 01:29:21 PM

lisarenee3505: (Spoiler Alert!!!)

I hate to say it, but after finally catching up on season 2 today, I think TWD has jumped the shark. I mean, nothing in the last episode made sense. A helicopter flies over a large city and some zombies follow it. The next thing you know, they're still wandering toward the farm for no reason. What stimulus was keeping them moving? The Zeds-Heads in TWD seem to be easily distracted, and I just can't believe for one moment that all those Zeds could have made it out to the middle of nowhere where the farmhouse is without getting distracted by something, changing course, or having the pack just break up as groups started to wander in different directions. And don't get me started on Carl. That little shiat is responsible for half the messes that the group got into in season 2, mainly because he likes to just wander off on his own.

Now maybe I'm being too critical here, but I would think that any little kid in that situation would be so ass-puckering scared that the last thing he'd do is go on a walkabout through the woods by himself, especially at night, and especially after getting shot in the freaking chest while wandering through said woods. The kid has no discipline at all, as evidenced by the fact that every time he is told to stay put, he does the exact opposite. Now one might be tempted to say "yeah but kids do that." Okay, fair point, but it seems to me that in that situation, any kid with half a brain would figure out pretty quick that wandering away from the group is an excellent way to end up like the little girl they were looking for, all gross and corpseified. Apparently Rick and Lori are completely oblivious to their son's penchant for wandering off and getting into trouble, because they still aren't handcuffing his little ass to something big and heavy when they can't keep a direct eye on him, so that pretty much makes them either negligent or incompetent parents, or a mix of the two.

So when the pack of Zeds does make it to the farm ...


You don't understand. It's a TV show.
 
2012-04-15 01:55:02 PM
Origin of the nickname ZED Link (new window)
 
2012-04-15 02:41:35 PM
So they got the cast and creatives together to publicly promise the show will start un-sucking in season three. And please come back to watch us do absolutely nothing for eight more hours.

Still, you have to give the writers credit. The final episode of season two has our merry band of survivors standing around on the side of a DIFFERENT road. This awesome coup de Theater should get us through at least SIX more HOURS of people standing around next season.

Oh, and it was cool how Miho showed up. A cliché ridden ninja chick standing around on the side of the road is exactly what this series needed.
 
2012-04-15 03:47:03 PM

Lando Lincoln: FTA:

Getting the call to go see makeup artist/co-producer Nicotero is the kiss of death.

And then:

A fun fact: the scene in which Dale died wasn't rehearsed, at the request of episode director Nicotero.

So they're letting the makeup guy direct episodes?

This explains a lot.


Greg Nicotero has been working in the business for almost 30 years and has put in more than his fair share of time behind the camera doing effects work for the best of the best: Darabont, Tarantino, Raimi, Carpenter, Rodriguez, Romero, the list goes on. This requires you to work closely with the director during pre-production and principle photography (nowadays, sometimes during post-production as well). You don't do that for as long as he has without picking up a thing or two. Letting this "makeup guy" direct? Not a bad idea.

/Fun fact: The outstanding first remake of Night of the Living Dead was directed by "makeup guy" Tom Savini.
 
2012-04-15 04:00:05 PM

ongbok: Oh, I see now. TDogg didn't have any lines because of bad writing. It was done intentionally because he is supposed to be that one black guy in a group of crazy white people, that doesn't say anything, mainly because they probably wouldn't listen to him and would go back to fighting among themselves, but just shakes his head and thinks to himself, "Crazy white muthafarkers", as he quietly looks and waits for a better situation for himself.


img39.imageshack.us
 
2012-04-15 04:36:10 PM

T.M.S.: So they got the cast and creatives together to publicly promise the show will start un-sucking in season three. And please come back to watch us do absolutely nothing for eight more hours.

Still, you have to give the writers credit. The final episode of season two has our merry band of survivors standing around on the side of a DIFFERENT road. This awesome coup de Theater should get us through at least SIX more HOURS of people standing around next season.

Oh, and it was cool how Miho showed up. A cliché ridden ninja chick standing around on the side of the road is exactly what this series needed.


Yet you still keep watching.....
 
2012-04-15 04:40:43 PM

Gaylord Q. Tinkledink: T.M.S.: So they got the cast and creatives together to publicly promise the show will start un-sucking in season three. And please come back to watch us do absolutely nothing for eight more hours.

Still, you have to give the writers credit. The final episode of season two has our merry band of survivors standing around on the side of a DIFFERENT road. This awesome coup de Theater should get us through at least SIX more HOURS of people standing around next season.

Oh, and it was cool how Miho showed up. A cliché ridden ninja chick standing around on the side of the road is exactly what this series needed.

Yet you still keep watching.....


Of course. What's your point..................
 
2012-04-15 05:03:00 PM

T.M.S.: So they got the cast and creatives together to publicly promise the show will start un-sucking in season three. And please come back to watch us do absolutely nothing for eight more hours.

Still, you have to give the writers credit. The final episode of season two has our merry band of survivors standing around on the side of a DIFFERENT road. This awesome coup de Theater should get us through at least SIX more HOURS of people standing around next season.

Oh, and it was cool how Miho showed up. A cliché ridden ninja chick standing around on the side of the road is exactly what this series needed.


Michonne. And she's not a ninja.
 
2012-04-15 05:08:50 PM

MagSeven: T.M.S.: So they got the cast and creatives together to publicly promise the show will start un-sucking in season three. And please come back to watch us do absolutely nothing for eight more hours.

Still, you have to give the writers credit. The final episode of season two has our merry band of survivors standing around on the side of a DIFFERENT road. This awesome coup de Theater should get us through at least SIX more HOURS of people standing around next season.

Oh, and it was cool how Miho showed up. A cliché ridden ninja chick standing around on the side of the road is exactly what this series needed.

Michonne. And she's not a ninja.


Ninja? Please.
 
2012-04-15 05:13:33 PM
It's a good show. Maybe it's not the zombie show YOU'D write, but it's still a damn good zombie show.

When Rick blew those dudes away in the bar, that was one of those moments I shouted "HOLY FARK" at my TV which usually only happens about 3-4 times a year.

What's all this Miho ninja nonsense. Michonne was a middle-class woman who just got hardcore with a sword. Can't wait to see her on screen.

I'm not sure what people expect these folks to be doing. You'd stay on the damn farm too!
 
2012-04-15 05:15:01 PM

T.M.S.: Of course. What's your point..................


If you watch a show just to hate it, that's not intelligent behavior. I'm sure there are things you could enjoy with that hour.
 
2012-04-15 05:28:13 PM

Confabulat: T.M.S.: Of course. What's your point..................

If you watch a show just to hate it, that's not intelligent behavior. I'm sure there are things you could enjoy with that hour.


I never said I watched the show just to hate it. I enjoy almost all zombie fiction even when it is awful. And TWD is very, very awful.

It's a genre I have a personal interest in and the idea of missing even a poorly created series would be out of the question.

It's just that I find it absolutely shocking that the writers have shown such absolute ineptitude in crafting anything close to an interesting or compelling story.

Season one was bad rehash of existing movies. Season two was even less creative than that.

And the producers know it. Which is why there is so much energy put into things like TTD and this talkback. The series is incapable of speaking for itself. All they have is spin.
 
2012-04-15 05:33:41 PM

T.M.S.: And the producers know it. Which is why there is so much energy put into things like TTD and this talkback. The series is incapable of speaking for itself. All they have is spin.


All they have is spin? Really? The show has huge ratings and is mostly critically well-received (you are clearly an exception). I respect your opinion but in a way you come off like a Trekkie still angry about the last movie because it's not the movie YOU would have written.

It's someone else's story. It's not the one you wanted, I get that. But it's compelling TV to a lot of people. You can't just say "all they have is spin."

I'll watch. And you know they're doing something right when the girl sits down with me and says at the beginning of the season "You know, I missed these people. "

Sorry you don't like it. But yours is hardly an objective viewpoint.
 
2012-04-15 05:42:32 PM

MoronLessOff: MagSeven: T.M.S.: So they got the cast and creatives together to publicly promise the show will start un-sucking in season three. And please come back to watch us do absolutely nothing for eight more hours.

Still, you have to give the writers credit. The final episode of season two has our merry band of survivors standing around on the side of a DIFFERENT road. This awesome coup de Theater should get us through at least SIX more HOURS of people standing around next season.

Oh, and it was cool how Miho showed up. A cliché ridden ninja chick standing around on the side of the road is exactly what this series needed.

Michonne. And she's not a ninja.

Ninja? Please.


i249.photobucket.com

Michonne Link (new window)
 
2012-04-15 06:16:17 PM

T.M.S.: Confabulat: T.M.S.: Of course. What's your point..................

If you watch a show just to hate it, that's not intelligent behavior. I'm sure there are things you could enjoy with that hour.

I never said I watched the show just to hate it. I enjoy almost all zombie fiction even when it is awful. And TWD is very, very awful.

It's a genre I have a personal interest in and the idea of missing even a poorly created series would be out of the question.

It's just that I find it absolutely shocking that the writers have shown such absolute ineptitude in crafting anything close to an interesting or compelling story.

Season one was bad rehash of existing movies. Season two was even less creative than that.

And the producers know it. Which is why there is so much energy put into things like TTD and this talkback. The series is incapable of speaking for itself. All they have is spin.


You're just an alpha nerd fanboy, who needs to shiat on everything just to prove how much smarter you are than all the other fanboys. No matter how pathetic it is. We get it.
 
2012-04-15 07:43:02 PM

Confabulat: T.M.S.: And the producers know it. Which is why there is so much energy put into things like TTD and this talkback. The series is incapable of speaking for itself. All they have is spin.

All they have is spin? Really? The show has huge ratings and is mostly critically well-received (you are clearly an exception). I respect your opinion but in a way you come off like a Trekkie still angry about the last movie because it's not the movie YOU would have written.

It's someone else's story. It's not the one you wanted, I get that. But it's compelling TV to a lot of people. You can't just say "all they have is spin."

I'll watch. And you know they're doing something right when the girl sits down with me and says at the beginning of the season "You know, I missed these people. "

Sorry you don't like it. But yours is hardly an objective viewpoint.


I certainly understand your point. It is not what I would have written. And I a glad people enjoy it. I do not want to see it cancelled.

Its just that I am shocked supposedly creative people could come up with such spectacularly unoriginal and un inspired characters and story line.

When AMC green lit this it was an unprecedented opportunity for zombie fans. And the results have been lackluster to say the least.

But of course that is my opinion which is hardly objective.
 
2012-04-15 07:53:19 PM

Gaylord Q. Tinkledink: T.M.S.: Confabulat: T.M.S.: Of course. What's your point..................

If you watch a show just to hate it, that's not intelligent behavior. I'm sure there are things you could enjoy with that hour.

I never said I watched the show just to hate it. I enjoy almost all zombie fiction even when it is awful. And TWD is very, very awful.

It's a genre I have a personal interest in and the idea of missing even a poorly created series would be out of the question.

It's just that I find it absolutely shocking that the writers have shown such absolute ineptitude in crafting anything close to an interesting or compelling story.

Season one was bad rehash of existing movies. Season two was even less creative than that.

And the producers know it. Which is why there is so much energy put into things like TTD and this talkback. The series is incapable of speaking for itself. All they have is spin.

You're just an alpha nerd fanboy, who needs to shiat on everything just to prove how much smarter you are than all the other fanboys. No matter how pathetic it is. We get it.


I'm afraid I don't have the slightest idea what you are accusing me of.

If you require anything explained to you please ask clear, concise questions.

I would be happy to allow you to benefit from my dramaturgical knowlege.
 
2012-04-15 08:05:59 PM

T.M.S.:
I'm afraid I don't have the slightest idea what you are accusing me of.

If you require anything explained to you please ask clear, concise questions.

I would be happy to allow you to benefit from my dramaturgical knowlege.


Thank you for confirming my prior post.
 
2012-04-15 08:27:24 PM

T.M.S.: Its just that I am shocked supposedly creative people could come up with such spectacularly unoriginal and un inspired characters and story line.


You must be new to Hollywood.
 
2012-04-15 08:54:33 PM

lisarenee3505: ZeroCorpse: lisarenee3505: (Spoiler Alert!!!)
...

Sorry, it's just a little homage to Max Brooks and World War Z, because that's what folks in his (far far superior) story called them.
Wait... "credibility on this subject?" I didn't know there was any to begin with.


And this is why I say you lack credibility. Max Brooks didn't write a zombie story. He wrote survivalist jerkoff porn and used his "Zeds" in the place of the invading army. All he really did was rewrite War of the Worlds with zombies.

World War Z is the worst book in the zombie genre. If that's what you consider good zombie fiction, then you might as well call Stephanie Brooks the mistress of vampire fiction, too.

All WWZ did was bring a bunch of people who have no real appreciation for zombie fiction into the fold. What we didn't need was a bunch of survivalists telling old-school zombie fans what's "wrong" with our genre of choice.

I loathe WWZ. It's bad zombie fiction, and an example of nepotism at it's worst. You can't tell me that book would have been published if he weren't Mel Brooks' son.

Zombies are not meant to be an invading army, or a beatable foe. They're the force of nature that puts humans into a particular situation where they have to deal with the fall of society and the tumultuous social interactions that are the result of it.

WWZ craps on NOTLD, ROTLD, Fulci's Zombie, Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead. It makes zombies into the subject of stupid discussions about "surviving the zombie apocalypse" and completely blows past the social issues, horror elements, and psychological issues. In WWZ, the zombies could be robots, Martians, Chucky dolls, or demons. It didn't matter WHAT they were, because Brooks just used them to stand-in as his generic army of monsters.

WWZ is the Atlas Shrugged of zombie stories.
 
2012-04-15 09:03:23 PM
And yes, I realize I'm in the minority when it comes to my opinion of WWZ.

I still hate it.
 
2012-04-15 09:08:31 PM

ZeroCorpse: And yes, I realize I'm in the minority when it comes to my opinion of WWZ.

I still hate it.


I am shocked (shocked!) that you dislike a popular entertainment item enough to tell us all about it.
 
2012-04-15 09:18:33 PM
It's a crap show, and all this nonsense here is people hoping that if they talk about it, it'll get better.

It's like finding a garbage song and listening to it over and over in the hopes that it'll magically change and improve.

The die is cast, Darabont isn't coming back, and from what I've read here, someone in makeup is making principle decisions.

Then again, this has the wonderful click of originating from comics. This means that no matter how awful, how outright shiatty, you've got the crucible of nerds who will defend every bad decision, every chunk of inside-out absolute nonsense, just like the huge shiatpile Watchmen was.

Story drives emotion. Characters by themselves, particularly when they're written as a bunch of idiotic, whiny coonts who couldn't think themselves out of a wet paper bag, doesn't lend itself to awesome.

Anyone hoping for awesome in this crapfest is akin to The Phantom Menace improving just because enough time has passed.
 
2012-04-15 10:30:22 PM

One Bad Apple: ZeroCorpse:

The fact that you use the word "Zed" to describe zombies completely destroys any credibility you have on this subject.



The accepted term is "geeks" or "walkers"


They're ZOMBIES. fark off
 
2012-04-15 10:39:00 PM

Znuh: It's a crap show, and all this nonsense here is people hoping that if they talk about it, it'll get better.


You answered your own question later on, bru. People think it'll get better because the comics are good and the show is still on.
 
2012-04-15 11:04:19 PM

ZeroCorpse:
...All WWZ did was bring a bunch of people who have no real appreciation for zombie fiction into the fold. What we didn't need was a bunch of survivalists telling old-school zombie fans what's "wrong" with our genre of choice.

I loathe WWZ. It's bad zombie fiction, and an example of nepotism at it's worst. You can't tell me that book would have been published if he weren't Mel Brooks' son.

Zombies are not meant to be an invading army, or a beatable foe. They're the force of nature that puts humans into a particular situation where they have to deal with the fall of society and the tumultuous social interactions that are the result of it.
.


www.nextmovie.com

I can understand not liking WWZ for various reasons, but you seem to believe that there is only one kind of zombie story that can be told, and that if you don't rehash the general NOTLD storyline and end the story in a nihilistic manner than it isn't worth considering. That seems a bit limiting.
 
2012-04-15 11:05:59 PM

Mentat: T.M.S.: Its just that I am shocked supposedly creative people could come up with such spectacularly unoriginal and un inspired characters and story line.

You must be new to Hollywood.


This was an unprecedented event. A large scale, big budgeted* episodic zombie production has never been been tried before. The recent and surprising mainstream interest in the genre made it possible. The creatives had everything going in their favor.

And the results are pathetically lackluster.

Sure Hollywood is often, to borrow a trendy phrase, a "race to the bottom." But considering the shows provenance, failure on this magnitude is surprising. And quite sad.

*the show has a more than ample budget to tell a compelling story. The idea that the "budget cuts" are what limited the writers creativity is nothing more than spin on the producers part.

moothemagiccow: Znuh: It's a crap show, and all this nonsense here is people hoping that if they talk about it, it'll get better.

You answered your own question later on, bru. People think it'll get better because the comics are good and the show is still on.


People don't seem to want to believe that good source material does not always equal a great show. The comics are irrelevant.

The audience is not responsible for having any appreciation nor understanding of the original material. TWD can only be judged by what is seen on the screen.
 
2012-04-15 11:16:11 PM

T.M.S.: Sure Hollywood is often, to borrow a trendy phrase, a "race to the bottom." But considering the shows provenance, failure on this magnitude is surprising. And quite sad.


Yeah, a failure that brought in 9 million viewers for the season finale. Mad Men doesn't come close to those numbers. I wish I could fail like that.
 
2012-04-15 11:35:58 PM

Mentat: T.M.S.: Sure Hollywood is often, to borrow a trendy phrase, a "race to the bottom." But considering the shows provenance, failure on this magnitude is surprising. And quite sad.

Yeah, a failure that brought in 9 million viewers for the season finale. Mad Men doesn't come close to those numbers. I wish I could fail like that.


You must be new to Hollywood.
 
Skr
2012-04-16 03:46:25 AM
You'd think at a certain point those buggers would have rotted away into immobility under the hot sun. That part of the Zombie apocalypse always bothers me.

/anything is better than the farm
//I'm hoping they get to the cool parts of the graphic novel soon.
 
2012-04-16 09:47:32 AM

T.M.S.: Mentat: T.M.S.: Sure Hollywood is often, to borrow a trendy phrase, a "race to the bottom." But considering the shows provenance, failure on this magnitude is surprising. And quite sad.

Yeah, a failure that brought in 9 million viewers for the season finale. Mad Men doesn't come close to those numbers. I wish I could fail like that.

You must be new to Hollywood.


Oh, I'm quite familiar with Hollywood. 9 million viewers for a basic cable show = win. The opinions of a few internet nerds don't matter in the face of those numbers.
 
2012-04-16 10:34:18 AM
Ok people get it out of your system:

-The show sucks because there aren't likeable characters
- Too many plotholes
- Too many inconsistencies in the writing
- The show is boring and there isn't enough zombies
- Rick is a whiny biatch
- Lori sucks
- Oh god, ninja sword woman? How lame!
- Dale dying was retarded, how did he not see it coming?
- Carl is the worst
- I LIKE DARYL, GO DARYL GO!
- Stupid Carol is so weak, why is she still around?
- Why don't they just get a better RV?
- How do they get so many headshots so easily? SO UNREALISTIC
- Zombies are so unrealistic
- How does a whole government get over-run by zombies that's so heavily armed?
- There's no way a human would be able to saw off his own hand
- The Farm was too boring
- This show isn't anywhere near as good as Breaking Bad
- Why is Carl always missing?
- Rick burning the barn down was so stupid, how stupid can a stupid idiot be?
- God this show is so bad, why am I still watching it?
- Oh yeah, DARYL IS SO COOL!
 
2012-04-16 10:36:22 AM

Fish in a Barrel: ZeroCorpse: And yes, I realize I'm in the minority when it comes to my opinion of WWZ.

I still hate it.

I am shocked (shocked!) that you dislike a popular entertainment item enough to tell us all about it.


Zombie hipsters are a thing now
 
2012-04-16 10:38:49 AM

Mad_Radhu: ZeroCorpse:
...All WWZ did was bring a bunch of people who have no real appreciation for zombie fiction into the fold. What we didn't need was a bunch of survivalists telling old-school zombie fans what's "wrong" with our genre of choice.

I loathe WWZ. It's bad zombie fiction, and an example of nepotism at it's worst. You can't tell me that book would have been published if he weren't Mel Brooks' son.

Zombies are not meant to be an invading army, or a beatable foe. They're the force of nature that puts humans into a particular situation where they have to deal with the fall of society and the tumultuous social interactions that are the result of it.
.

[www.nextmovie.com image 300x220]

I can understand not liking WWZ for various reasons, but you seem to believe that there is only one kind of zombie story that can be told, and that if you don't rehash the general NOTLD storyline and end the story in a nihilistic manner than it isn't worth considering. That seems a bit limiting.


I kind of have to agree with him. His point is that in WWZ, it didn't need to be zombies. World War II without the Nazis is just a stupid war over resources and territories. There's a reason WWII captures everyone's attention and imagination the way so few wars do, and that's because the Nazis were evil geniuses. And WWZ doesn't need zombies to be the reason for the collapse of society.

Skr: You'd think at a certain point those buggers would have rotted away into immobility under the hot sun. That part of the Zombie apocalypse always bothers me.


Dear God, THIS. I have ALWAYS wondered how non-supernatural zombies just don't fall apart when summer rolls along. At least the zombies in 28 Days Later starved to death. And as far as the whole "the virus takes over after death" rule in TWD, well, what happens when the body is so decayed that the virus in the brain can't get the signal to the legs to make the body walk?

/yes, you can stop the signal
 
2012-04-16 10:46:32 AM

Coelacanth: Origin of the nickname ZED Link (new window)


I know you didn't make that term up, but it is farking retarded. If we had a REAL zombie apocalypse, we wouldn't be calling them Zeds, or Zs, geeks (especially not geeks, because that's just retarded) or even walkers. We'd be calling them zombies, because 50 years of movies, books, and comics has already trained us to call them zombies. If thousands of bipedal humanoids suddenly erupted out of the mountains and attacked Denver, we wouldn't be calling the Os or Omegas or pigheads, we'd be calling them orcs. Because our collective culture has already decided that's what they're called.
 
2012-04-16 11:33:43 AM

ZeroCorpse: lisarenee3505: ZeroCorpse: lisarenee3505: (Spoiler Alert!!!)
...

Sorry, it's just a little homage to Max Brooks and World War Z, because that's what folks in his (far far superior) story called them.
Wait... "credibility on this subject?" I didn't know there was any to begin with.

And this is why I say you lack credibility. Max Brooks didn't write a zombie story. He wrote survivalist jerkoff porn and used his "Zeds" in the place of the invading army. All he really did was rewrite War of the Worlds with zombies.

World War Z is the worst book in the zombie genre. If that's what you consider good zombie fiction, then you might as well call Stephanie Brooks the mistress of vampire fiction, too.

All WWZ did was bring a bunch of people who have no real appreciation for zombie fiction into the fold. What we didn't need was a bunch of survivalists telling old-school zombie fans what's "wrong" with our genre of choice.

I loathe WWZ. It's bad zombie fiction, and an example of nepotism at it's worst. You can't tell me that book would have been published if he weren't Mel Brooks' son.

Zombies are not meant to be an invading army, or a beatable foe. They're the force of nature that puts humans into a particular situation where they have to deal with the fall of society and the tumultuous social interactions that are the result of it.

WWZ craps on NOTLD, ROTLD, Fulci's Zombie, Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead. It makes zombies into the subject of stupid discussions about "surviving the zombie apocalypse" and completely blows past the social issues, horror elements, and psychological issues. In WWZ, the zombies could be robots, Martians, Chucky dolls, or demons. It didn't matter WHAT they were, because Brooks just used them to stand-in as his generic army of monsters.

WWZ is the Atlas Shrugged of zombie stories.


jesus, dude. who pissed in your cornflakes? WWZ is a very cool zombie book. It simply deals with the actual logistics of putting a zombie invasion down and not on "How is Carl going to get out of the house this time". It doesn't always have to be "THE REAL MONSTER WAS US" all the time. Not everything has to be goddamned satire. Yes, you could replace the zombies in WWZ with pretty much any other monster, but that was not the point. The point was "how will humanity survive", and in that respect, Max nailed it.

Also, if you really think that "The Battle of Yonkers" wasn't supposed to be absolutely horrifying then you really should just stop with the horror genre altogether. In the book, that was the point when humanity figured it was farked. That is pretty damned horrifying. Also - psychological issues? The guy that survived Yonkers' whole thing was how they mentally dealt with zombies and how draining it was, and how some just cracked. The only thing I don't like about WWZ is the Quizlings. That is just stupid. But otherwise... it is pretty damned awesome.
 
2012-04-16 01:32:05 PM
I want to write a zombie story where the protagonists do everything right and still get farked up just to shut some of you up.
 
2012-04-16 02:04:36 PM

socodog: I want to write a zombie story where the protagonists do everything right and still get farked up just to shut some of you up.


Is that a threat of some kind?

'i can't stand you guys, so i'll give you what you want and make you happy!'
 
2012-04-16 02:10:44 PM

ZeroCorpse: The standard estimate is that 146,000 people die on a "normal" day. If each one of those 146,000 people is responsible for only three deaths on the first day (and that's guessing low, considering that on Day One there are no soldiers or cops prepared to deal with this), then you'd see the number increase to 584,000 undead creatures attacking all over the world without tiring, feeling pain, or being deterred by the usual methods. Hospitals and prisons fill up as people try to comprehend what's going on.

Day Two, that number would easily increase to over 2,336,000 people, again if each ghoul is only responsible for three deaths (and we know it would probably be way more than that).

Day Three we might see the number turn to over 9 million.

Day Four sees the number increase to 37 million.

Day Five sees the number increase to 1.5 billion.


I'm assuming you meant 150 million?

You're off by a factor of 10. So would buy a few more days to get to 6 billion, although I see your overall point.
 
2012-04-16 02:47:44 PM

ZeroCorpse:

The standard estimate is that 146,000 people die on a "normal" day. If each one of those 146,000 people is responsible for only three deaths on the first day (and that's guessing low, considering that on Day One there are no soldiers or cops prepared to deal with this), then you'd see the number increase to 584,000 undead creatures attacking all over the world without tiring, feeling pain, or being deterred by the usual methods. Hospitals and prisons fill up as people try to comprehend what's going on.



Is that world wide ? There are lots of problems with the zombie outbreak scenario going from the very first one (or 150,000 spread out across the planet) and then any large city being overrun.

The local police are quite capable of handling a handful of zombies shambling around downtown trying to chomp on civilians. If some filthy crackhead tried to bite you right now you could prolly out wrestle it and run away and even if you got zom nom nommed you would likely seek emergency medical care. Unless the pathogen that leads to zombification is near instantaneous ("28 days Later" type and from what I've seen so far the film version of WWZ) the infection is not going to spread unchecked until local law enforcement is overwhelmed. That zombie will be pepper sprayed (to no effect) tazed (temporary effect since a dead human body is still an electro chemical mechanism) and hand cuffed like any other drunk/homeless junkie and very likely brought to a hospital depending on its visible injuries.

Hilarity will then ensue at the hospital but the outbreak will end there one way or another. Nobody that was bitten and then dies and then comes back as a zombie will escape the building. They will be shot in the head or placed into restraints just like any living combative patient. There isn't an ER in any large community that doesn't have a constant police presence. The only scenario that makes sense has to coincide with some hurricane Katrina level disaster that wipes out local law and medical response prior to the first zombie.
 
2012-04-16 03:01:45 PM

One Bad Apple: ZeroCorpse:

The standard estimate is that 146,000 people die on a "normal" day. If each one of those 146,000 people is responsible for only three deaths on the first day (and that's guessing low, considering that on Day One there are no soldiers or cops prepared to deal with this), then you'd see the number increase to 584,000 undead creatures attacking all over the world without tiring, feeling pain, or being deterred by the usual methods. Hospitals and prisons fill up as people try to comprehend what's going on.


Is that world wide ? There are lots of problems with the zombie outbreak scenario going from the very first one (or 150,000 spread out across the planet) and then any large city being overrun.

The local police are quite capable of handling a handful of zombies shambling around downtown trying to chomp on civilians. If some filthy crackhead tried to bite you right now you could prolly out wrestle it and run away and even if you got zom nom nommed you would likely seek emergency medical care. Unless the pathogen that leads to zombification is near instantaneous ("28 days Later" type and from what I've seen so far the film version of WWZ) the infection is not going to spread unchecked until local law enforcement is overwhelmed. That zombie will be pepper sprayed (to no effect) tazed (temporary effect since a dead human body is still an electro chemical mechanism) and hand cuffed like any other drunk/homeless junkie and very likely brought to a hospital depending on its visible injuries.

Hilarity will then ensue at the hospital but the outbreak will end there one way or another. Nobody that was bitten and then dies and then comes back as a zombie will escape the building. They will be shot in the head or placed into restraints just like any living combative patient. There isn't an ER in any large community that doesn't have a constant police presence. The only scenario that makes sense has to coincide with some hurricane Katrina level disaster that wipes ...


Yup. Even if the zombies went nuts though, they still shouldn't be beating the military at ANY location. The zombies in TWD simply move too slow to overwhelm any organized and well armed set up. Even on the show itself, when 20+ walk at a cop and a fat hunter, they can retreat + fire as fast as the zombies come, and it is only ammo that holds them back. The military is not going to have issues with running out of ammo, nor with being stuck in buildings they may have to retreat to. They'd be bringing enough with them, they'll have plenty of gas to simply drive away to a fall back point, and they'll have resupply from helicopters and the like.

Now, I can certainly see the US military not stretching itself thing and thus abandoning various locations to the locals. I can see lots of havoc being wrought at those locations. Look how effective anyone who can fire a weapon is in TWD. I'm not going off my imagination of what someone can do against a zombie when they have a gun, I'm going off a show in which anyone with a gun can fire faster than people come at them, and women with a knife are still coming out on top of the hand to hand combat department. I'm keeping my interpretations accurate to the show itself: those are some weak ass zombies.

Now, in night of the living dead you've a small isolated area and the explanation is that the already dead are coming to life en masse to begin the apocalypse. I haven't read the comic books for TWD, but thus far it isn't all dead coming to life, just those effected. That means that in the initial outbreak(s), the zombies will be both weak as shiat, AND will be outnumbered. So maybe they snag a hospital here or there like you say, when some nurses don't tell anyone they've gotten bit, or whatever. But the overrun military installations are just silly, when every sportsman in the show is capable of going 1 v 20 provided they have the ammo. The military isn't going to puss out, nor are they going to snap in a way that doesn't involve erring on the side of killing civilians as opposed to erring on the side of letting the infected get close. Just look at some of the brutality that those who snap in the middle east or Afghanistan are capable of. When they snap, they snap on the side of shooting too many, too soon, too innocent. Not the other way round.


/and just to reiterate, provided I suspend disbelief just like I do for every other fictional work, I am fully capable of enjoying the show and am looking forward to more.
 
2012-04-16 03:28:48 PM
Yeah but none of this matters because zombies aren't real. Right?

Right??
 
2012-04-16 03:37:01 PM

Inconceivable!: Yeah but none of this matters because zombies aren't real. Right?

Right??


Nothing is real, you are all mere figments of my dreaming. When I awaken, you will be no more.
 
2012-04-16 04:24:10 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Mad_Radhu: ZeroCorpse:
...All WWZ did was bring a bunch of people who have no real appreciation for zombie fiction into the fold. What we didn't need was a bunch of survivalists telling old-school zombie fans what's "wrong" with our genre of choice.

I loathe WWZ. It's bad zombie fiction, and an example of nepotism at it's worst. You can't tell me that book would have been published if he weren't Mel Brooks' son.

Zombies are not meant to be an invading army, or a beatable foe. They're the force of nature that puts humans into a particular situation where they have to deal with the fall of society and the tumultuous social interactions that are the result of it.
.

[www.nextmovie.com image 300x220]

I can understand not liking WWZ for various reasons, but you seem to believe that there is only one kind of zombie story that can be told, and that if you don't rehash the general NOTLD storyline and end the story in a nihilistic manner than it isn't worth considering. That seems a bit limiting.

I kind of have to agree with him. His point is that in WWZ, it didn't need to be zombies. World War II without the Nazis is just a stupid war over resources and territories. There's a reason WWII captures everyone's attention and imagination the way so few wars do, and that's because the Nazis were evil geniuses. And WWZ doesn't need zombies to be the reason for the collapse of society.

Skr: You'd think at a certain point those buggers would have rotted away into immobility under the hot sun. That part of the Zombie apocalypse always bothers me.

Dear God, THIS. I have ALWAYS wondered how non-supernatural zombies just don't fall apart when summer rolls along. At least the zombies in 28 Days Later starved to death. And as far as the whole "the virus takes over after death" rule in TWD, well, what happens when the body is so decayed that the virus in the brain can't get the signal to the legs to make the body walk?

/yes, you can stop the signal


What are those? The kind they make in the Caribbean ala Serpent in the Rainbow?
TWD zombies and Romero zombies don't fall completely apart because something (I don't know what) is preserving them. They dry out and mummify before they rot into nothing. And they still move, but with lots of difficulty.
 
2012-04-16 09:34:58 PM

MagSeven: What are those? The kind they make in the Caribbean ala Serpent in the Rainbow?


The non-supernatural zombies are the result of a virus or bacterial infection reanimating the corpses as opposed to the "hell filling up" explanation where zombies just happen one day because of something that can't easily be explained. WWZ and the Newsflesh series are some recent non-supernatural zombie stories, and I Am Legend was an example of a non-supernatural vampire story. In TWD, it's not really clear if the zombies are supernatural or not, especially since you now have the seemingly uninfected dead reanimating.
 
2012-04-16 11:05:07 PM

Mad_Radhu: In TWD, it's not really clear if the zombies are supernatural or not, especially since you now have the seemingly uninfected dead reanimating.


It has been promised that the TWD comic series will end with an explanation of what caused the dead to rise. Until then, we can only guess what happened and that's how it should be.

Mike Chewbacca: I know you didn't make that term up, but it is farking retarded. If we had a REAL zombie apocalypse, we wouldn't be calling them Zeds, or Zs, geeks (especially not geeks, because that's just retarded) or even walkers. We'd be calling them zombies, because 50 years of movies, books, and comics has already trained us to call them zombies. If thousands of bipedal humanoids suddenly erupted out of the mountains and attacked Denver, we wouldn't be calling the Os or Omegas or pigheads, we'd be calling them orcs. Because our collective culture has already decided that's what they're called.


There are Nine Billion Names for God. Zombies should rate a million or two.
 
2012-04-17 03:48:13 PM

MagSeven: What are those? The kind they make in the Caribbean ala Serpent in the Rainbow?
TWD zombies and Romero zombies don't fall completely apart because something (I don't know what) is preserving them. They dry out and mummify before they rot into nothing. And they still move, but with lots of difficulty.


Non-supernatural zombies meaning zombies created by virus or bacteria and not hell filling up or a necromancer casting animate dead.

And the zombies in TWD are hella juicy, and I don't understand why they don't just fall apart in the heat of the Georgia summer. After a while, the virus that's in the walker's brain should stop being able to communicate with the muscles in the arms and legs due to decay. The person is dead while the virus is alive, therefore the walkers should decay enough so that the first the corpse can't move, and eventually falls apart completely.
 
2012-04-17 06:00:00 PM

Mike Chewbacca: MagSeven: What are those? The kind they make in the Caribbean ala Serpent in the Rainbow?
TWD zombies and Romero zombies don't fall completely apart because something (I don't know what) is preserving them. They dry out and mummify before they rot into nothing. And they still move, but with lots of difficulty.

Non-supernatural zombies meaning zombies created by virus or bacteria and not hell filling up or a necromancer casting animate dead.

And the zombies in TWD are hella juicy, and I don't understand why they don't just fall apart in the heat of the Georgia summer. After a while, the virus that's in the walker's brain should stop being able to communicate with the muscles in the arms and legs due to decay. The person is dead while the virus is alive, therefore the walkers should decay enough so that the first the corpse can't move, and eventually falls apart completely.


That would be good in theory, assuming this was a virus. We can't assume it's a virus though. That scientist (Jenner) even said he couldn't identify it as a virus or parasite. He couldn't even rule out act of God. Now TWD zombies are supposed to basically be Romero zombies (Kirkman said as much early in the comics letter pages). Those were spawned by radiation from a space probe (I don't think Kirkman is going to keep the radiation angle). So WHATEVER it is keeping them going, we can just assume is slowing down rot and decay significantly. Add to that that there are so many zombies and anyone who dies becomes a "fresh" one, they will have more than enough to go around for quite a while. Also doesn't the simple act of moving slow down rot and decay as those creepy crawly things that eat us when we die have more difficulty getting at a body that's still moving?
 
2012-04-17 07:05:29 PM

MagSeven: That would be good in theory, assuming this was a virus. We can't assume it's a virus though. That scientist (Jenner) even said he couldn't identify it as a virus or parasite. He couldn't even rule out act of God. Now TWD zombies are supposed to basically be Romero zombies (Kirkman said as much early in the comics letter pages). Those were spawned by radiation from a space probe (I don't think Kirkman is going to keep the radiation angle). So WHATEVER it is keeping them going, we can just assume is slowing down rot and decay significantly. Add to that that there are so many zombies and anyone who dies becomes a "fresh" one, they will have more than enough to go around for quite a while. Also doesn't the simple act of moving slow down rot and decay as those creepy crawly things that eat us when we die have more difficulty getting at a body that's still moving?


I've seen it fanwanked that zombie flesh is so toxic that it actually kills the bacteria responsible for decomposition. With no bacteria or other organisms attacking the zombie, they are going to last a lot longer than normal dead flesh.
 
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