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(MSNBC)   TARP was such a colossal failure, taxpayers are likely on the hook for a sizable profit   (bottomline.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 25
    More: Spiffy, TARP, Treasury Department, General Motors Co., economic cost, bankruptcy, taxpayers  
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3610 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Apr 2012 at 1:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-04-14 02:08:33 PM  
2 votes:
The men running the shell game have told us we won.

Awesome!
2012-04-14 01:26:38 PM  
2 votes:
Is this the thread where our resident righties go from blaming Obama for TARP to praising Bush for it?

Cos those are always fun.
2012-04-14 01:11:41 PM  
2 votes:

AcneVulgaris: GAT_00: AcneVulgaris: Bullshiat.

Just wholesale denial of facts because you don't like them?

It would be wonderful news if it were true.


Yes, reflexive gainsaying is the hallmark of intellectual debate, rather than calmly explaining and proving why someone is incorrect.
2012-04-15 05:00:16 PM  
1 votes:
TARP is irrelevant.
2012-04-14 06:21:34 PM  
1 votes:
Yes, because everybody who was fired and now has lower paying jobs are the winners here. Taxpayers to profit? Taxpayers profits have been declining for 30+ years now, and the nontaxpayer 1% have been laughing their asses off about it.
2012-04-14 05:11:55 PM  
1 votes:

lennavan: Uh, what? Government letting corporations fail is self-destructive? No, I'm pretty sure the government would not have been destroyed. A bunch of companies make a bunch of really farking risky moves. For years it paid enormous dividends and they lived the high life, while not preparing for the inevitable. Letting them deal with the consequences is not childish.


How on earth would they "deal with the consequences"? The people who were high enough to make the bad decisions would not under any circumstances have been harmed by their failures. Take GM's then-CEO, Rick Wagner. In one year, his earnings were high enough to fund two hundred and fifty years of 'comfortable' retirement at today's prices. Even with taxes and inflation, his 2007 earnings were easily enough to retire very, very comfortably on even if he never earned a penny again.

The people who would get hit by the consequences of his decisions aren't the ones at the top. A CEO of a major corporation isn't going to have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, or how they can possibly put their kids through school, or how to pay the rent. It's the people on the top who make the decisions and the people on the bottom who suffer the consequences.
2012-04-14 04:32:20 PM  
1 votes:
Why don't we tell all the former homeowners who lost their houses this?

Yeah, it made a profit for the government, but that's not counting the incalculable economic damage dealt out to ordinary citizens over the past 4 years.

The program was necessary to prevent an all-out economic nightmare, but nothing's been done in the way of punishing banks for their pointless risky behavior, protecting homeowners from future predatory schemes, and restoring the world's trust in our financial institutions.

Phony accounting is still phony.
2012-04-14 04:29:57 PM  
1 votes:
Bush had as much of a role with TARP as Obama did in catching/killing Bin Laden.

Um yeah, no.

Here's the thing... I really hate that sound byte minimizing BHO's role in OBL's take down.

Obama put his campaign on the line when he said before being elected that he would pursue Bin Laden into Pakistan if he had credible intel and would do so with or without the assistance of the Pakistani government.

McCain said that was nuts. Hillary said it was naive. Obama stuck to his guns.

Obama wins campaign.

When the time came to call "go/no go" on the OBL take down Obama also placed a great deal of his political capitol on the line in order to do the right thing.

Who dares wins. He dared. He won.

Anyone asserting it was anything other than a gutsy call with potentially career ending consequences on both occasions doesn't really get what happened there.

Comparing that decision to Bush being handed the TARP bill and being told "sign this or the economy collapses" is an insult.
2012-04-14 03:39:03 PM  
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: Magorn: wrong. the WH had zero to do with it. Hank Paulson, Tim Geithner and a small cadre of Treasury, Fed Reserve, and FDIC officials created TARP on the fly. The WH was barely involved and the president was essentially briefed after the fact.

He did sign off on it though.

Bush had as much of a role with TARP as Obama did in catching/killing Bin Laden.


not exactly. Bush simply signed a law passed by Congress, and it was a no-brainer, if he didn't sign it was all over for the US economy

The go/no go on the Bin Laden strike was a lot more discretionary, and entirely up to Obama
2012-04-14 03:30:57 PM  
1 votes:

Giltric: How are the troubled assets not troubled anymore....and whos stuck with them?


Short answer?: Despite its name the Troubled Asset Relief Program never took possession of any troubled assets. That was the plan when Paulson first came up with the idea, that Treasury would take possession of all the questionable mortgages and clean up bank's balance sheets (which would have been more of bailout than what actually happened)

Problem was Paulson was assuming banks had a clean balance sheets and had some idea of what they actually owned. They didn't, and there was no way they could figure it out in time to do any good. So Paulson's team threw a hail mary and just directly injected cash into the banks (the idea behind the bailouts generally was to give the banks enough liquidity to unfreeze the commercial paper markets), but, to make it somewhat palatable to Congress and the American people, we took preferred stock warrants in exchange for the cash. TARP's Profits have largely come from companies buying back those warrants now that they are liquid again
2012-04-14 03:18:24 PM  
1 votes:

sirrerun: Accounting tricks are not "profit."


See, libs? Once someone starts listening to Fox and AM Radio, you no longer can convince them with facts. Period. Because they now have their OWN facts that line up nicely with their beliefs, and your facts are automatically liberal lies that aren't to be trusted. And proving them wrong perversely makes them believe in their errors even more strongly.

You better face up to reality, libs. I know it's hard to understand the conservative mind, but you need to work on it if you want to start getting things accomplished. It's like quantum mechanics, it makes no actual sense, but there are rules that can be used.
2012-04-14 02:40:45 PM  
1 votes:
Accounting tricks are not "profit."
2012-04-14 02:19:21 PM  
1 votes:
So ... TARP is bad because we should let companies just fail on their own, yet we need to keep voting for subsidies to Big Oil?

/stay consistent, Repubs.
2012-04-14 02:18:29 PM  
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: Who would you be punishing? The people who caused all this crap mad a HUGE amount of money off it. They were rich either way.


Exactly. I cannot even begin to understand the "let 'em fail" mindset.
2012-04-14 02:15:20 PM  
1 votes:

Gunther: lennavan: Doing nothing is not a punishment

If you refuse to help someone who is in a bad situation even though helping them doesn't cost you anything (in this situation, helping turned out to be very beneficial), because you want them to suffer the consequences of their actions, what is that if not a punishment?


Who would you be punishing? The people who caused all this crap mad a HUGE amount of money off it. They were rich either way.
2012-04-14 01:56:19 PM  
1 votes:

QU!RK1019: I_C_Weener: If TARP was so great let's privatize SS

You know who else had a privatized SS?


[applause.gif]
2012-04-14 01:36:44 PM  
1 votes:
It cited rising share prices for two of the companies it rescued, General Motors Co


I guess they mean the new GM...not the old GM where debt was wiped out and creditors were told to go screw...
2012-04-14 01:31:59 PM  
1 votes:

quatchi: Is this the thread where our resident righties go from blaming Obama for TARP to praising Bush for it?

Cos those are always fun.


It is, even more fun when the narrative is oblivious to the fact that TARP was there to patch up a ruined economy. Wahooo, billions of dollars was lost, but that government program made money.
2012-04-14 01:31:38 PM  
1 votes:
That's funny - the Treasury Department said TARP was "only" going to cost $50 billion or so way back in December 2011.

Now it's "only" going to cost $60 billion, and "may" turn a profit (if all of the money they sunk into GM and AIG gets repaid).

Of course, neither GM nor AIG are showing any sort of trend in stock prices or commercial success that will let that payout happen.

...and the guy who's saying it will turn a profit? Anonymous. Yeah, sounds like a high probability of success there...
2012-04-14 01:15:09 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: TwistedIvory: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Before the revisionist historians get here, a reminder that TARP was originally developed by the Bush WH.

Correct, and a profit from TARP should be in large part attributed to Bush.

By definition, it has to be. Can't credit Obama for it, he had nothing to do with it. It was Bush's policy, signed into law by him.

The program was terribly executed, but it did net a profit.


To be fair Senator Obama did vote yes and publicly supported TARP.

The funny thing is the right has made such an issue about bailouts I can't see them reversing that. All the variations of "BAILOUTS BAD" make great bumper sticker slogans and it doesn't matter that the bailouts were successful. You can't very well make the argument "bailouts good" because the fact is the federal government should not be in the business of bailing out private industry. You can give up on arguing the nuance that it was an extrodinary situation and the TARP most likely helped us avoid a second great depression as well. This issue is going to be a net positive for the republicans in this election year.

Granted there were problems with the way TARP has been executed but in the long run I wouldn't call it terrible. We did avoid a second great depression and we are coming out of a deep deep recession with a viable banking sector that can support growth into the next decade. The bonus is the government actually turned a profit on the deal so our kids don't have to eat that dept too(FSM I hate using that argument).

GWB enacted TARP, Obama largly managed it. In the history books who gets credit/blame?? Who knows? But you can bet you will hear "bailouts bailouts bailouts" coming from the right this year and it will work with more folks than it turns away.
2012-04-14 11:35:27 AM  
1 votes:

TwistedIvory: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Before the revisionist historians get here, a reminder that TARP was originally developed by the Bush WH.

Correct, and a profit from TARP should be in large part attributed to Bush.


By definition, it has to be. Can't credit Obama for it, he had nothing to do with it. It was Bush's policy, signed into law by him.

The program was terribly executed, but it did net a profit.
2012-04-14 11:13:04 AM  
1 votes:

TwistedIvory: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Before the revisionist historians get here, a reminder that TARP was originally developed by the Bush WH.

Correct, and a profit from TARP should be in large part attributed to Bush.


Careful. The government helping out when necessary for the good of the country is nothing but socialism.
2012-04-14 10:17:12 AM  
1 votes:

AcneVulgaris: Bullshiat.


Just wholesale denial of facts because you don't like them?
2012-04-14 09:14:06 AM  
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Before the revisionist historians get here, a reminder that TARP was originally developed by the Bush WH.


That's true. Ironically, it's Republicans that go on about "Government Motors" and make fun of the Volt.
2012-04-14 09:03:08 AM  
1 votes:
Before the revisionist historians get here, a reminder that TARP was originally developed by the Bush WH.
 
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