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(MSNBC)   TARP was such a colossal failure, taxpayers are likely on the hook for a sizable profit   (bottomline.msnbc.msn.com ) divider line 173
    More: Spiffy, TARP, Treasury Department, General Motors Co., economic cost, bankruptcy, taxpayers  
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3613 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Apr 2012 at 1:21 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-14 02:00:40 PM  

Forgot_my_password_again: 1. The government will find a way to lose money and 2. if they make a profit, these wall street douchebags got away with farking the world economy with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

Profit or not, that sickening


Uh huh. "The government will find a way to lose money"? Are you serious with this weak sh*t?
 
2012-04-14 02:01:37 PM  

QU!RK1019: I_C_Weener: I don't think those were privatized though.

What's the difference between apathy and ignorance?


I don't care and I don't know. Wait...shouldn't that be reversed?
 
2012-04-14 02:03:09 PM  

I_C_Weener: I don't care and I don't know. Wait...shouldn't that be reversed?


lol shiat! I screwed up my own gorram joke.
 
2012-04-14 02:03:23 PM  
More proof that is was Republican policies that prevented Obama and his democrat friends from sending us into a depression again. Funny who this is getting absolutely no media coverage, must be re-election time for BHO.
 
2012-04-14 02:04:42 PM  
We "could" make the taxpayers money gambling on European debt. Maybe we should do that too?
 
2012-04-14 02:04:49 PM  

Jackson Herring: I think TARP needs a snappy name, similar to Obamacare.

The Bushouts?


TARD: Troubled Asset Relief Dubya
 
2012-04-14 02:06:26 PM  
St_Francis_P: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Before the revisionist historians get here, a reminder that TARP was originally developed by the Bush WH.

That's true. Ironically, it's Republicans that go on about "Government Motors" and make fun of the Volt.


Except for the pissed off Republican CEO's and executives of those companies.

It was interesting listening Bob Lutz on Realtime wondering out loud how crazy the GOP was on the auto industry in one breath, then repeat economic and social bubble talking points in the next. Seconds apart.

The connotative dissonance is worse than we all think. It was like watching a schizophrenic or someone with multiple personality disorder.

People are either so uniformed and uninterested in thinking, or so tribal that it;s become comical the lengths they'll blindly fight for whatever is the part MO.... until it directly attacks them.
 
2012-04-14 02:07:30 PM  

lennavan: Doing nothing is not a punishment


If you refuse to help someone who is in a bad situation even though helping them doesn't cost you anything (in this situation, helping turned out to be very beneficial), because you want them to suffer the consequences of their actions, what is that if not a punishment?

lennavan: Uh, what? Government letting corporations fail is self-destructive?


If doing so will cause the country harm, then yes; it's self destructive.

lennavan: A bunch of companies make a bunch of really farking risky moves. For years it paid enormous dividends and they lived the high life, while not preparing for the inevitable. Letting them deal with the consequences is not childish.


Actually, "childish" is an understatement. Allowing what many experts thought could be a ruinous economic collapse to occur because it will hurt people you blame for it in addition to millions of innocents is farking psychotically spiteful.

lennavan: The turmoil has not ended. You should keep up on what has been going on with these bundled mortgages and whatnot.


Yes, and maybe if we were really clever, we could institute a few regulations to stop this sort of crap happening again, rather than just farking hoping that if we let the people who did this wreck the economy enough times, they will learn to behave. History has already shown that they won't.
 
2012-04-14 02:07:43 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Forgot_my_password_again: 1. The government will find a way to lose money and 2. if they make a profit, these wall street douchebags got away with farking the world economy with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

Profit or not, that sickening

Uh huh. "The government will find a way to lose money"? Are you serious with this weak sh*t?


The troubled assets were bought by fannie and freddie....the companies they purchased them from are free and clear....the taxpayers are on the hook now. Not only did we pay once for them, we get to pay for them a second time since they are government backed troubled assets now.
 
2012-04-14 02:08:33 PM  
The men running the shell game have told us we won.

Awesome!
 
2012-04-14 02:12:19 PM  
lennavan Smartest
Funniest
2012-04-14 01:53:12 PM


jpo2269: Funny, there is still roughly $228 Billiion yet to be repaid and we are to believe the program is a huge success? Forgive me for not wanting to join this left wing circle jerk..

So you promise to call it a success when it is all repaid? Forgive me for assuming you're a partisan douche pretending like that's what you care about.


Wow, you got me dead to rights, why on earth would anyone care about a measly $228 billion when we can PRETEND the program is making outrageous profits.
 
2012-04-14 02:13:48 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Uh huh. "The government will find a way to lose money"? Are you serious with this weak sh*t?


yeah, the government promised and make available up to 14 trillion they didn't bother to let anyone know about. This crapstorm isn't over and the government can still be on the hook for trillions.

mean while the wall street assholes who caused it are still profiting.

socialize risk, privatize profits. The new capitalism/
 
2012-04-14 02:14:40 PM  
Wyalt Derp Smartest
Funniest
2012-04-14 01:57:41 PM


jpo2269: Forgive me for not wanting to join this left wing circle jerk.

Notorious left-winger George Walker Bush frowns on your shenanigans.


He usually complains about my nails being too long.
 
2012-04-14 02:15:20 PM  

Gunther: lennavan: Doing nothing is not a punishment

If you refuse to help someone who is in a bad situation even though helping them doesn't cost you anything (in this situation, helping turned out to be very beneficial), because you want them to suffer the consequences of their actions, what is that if not a punishment?


Who would you be punishing? The people who caused all this crap mad a HUGE amount of money off it. They were rich either way.
 
2012-04-14 02:17:12 PM  
DAMN YOU OBAMA YOU SHOULD HAVE LET IT ALL BURN


ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG
 
2012-04-14 02:18:29 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Who would you be punishing? The people who caused all this crap mad a HUGE amount of money off it. They were rich either way.


Exactly. I cannot even begin to understand the "let 'em fail" mindset.
 
2012-04-14 02:19:21 PM  
So ... TARP is bad because we should let companies just fail on their own, yet we need to keep voting for subsidies to Big Oil?

/stay consistent, Repubs.
 
2012-04-14 02:22:50 PM  

Gunther: lennavan: Doing nothing is not a punishment

If you refuse to help someone who is in a bad situation even though helping them doesn't cost you anything (in this situation, helping turned out to be very beneficial), because you want them to suffer the consequences of their actions, what is that if not a punishment?


Inaction. That is inaction. It is not a punishment, a punishment requires actively doing something. If you are driving in front of me and get in a car crash, am I punishing you by driving by? Of course not.

Gunther: Actually, "childish" is an understatement. Allowing what many experts thought could be a ruinous economic collapse to occur because it will hurt people you blame for it in addition to millions of innocents is farking psychotically spiteful.


Again, your perspective is wrong. You seem to believe a bailout is a right of the corporations and I have to explain to you why we should withhold a bailout. That's bullshiat. You do not have a right to a bailout, nor do any corporations. You have to explain to me why corporations get one. You have to explain to me why the government should help. I do not have to explain to you why the government should not punish because that does not exist. Inaction is not punishment.

Gunther: if we were really clever, we could institute a few regulations to stop this sort of crap happening again, rather than just farking hoping that if we let the people who did this wreck the economy enough times, they will learn to behave.


God I couldn't possibly agree with you more here. WTF is wrong with this country? I think we both know we're going to see "too big to fail" again in our lifetimes.
 
2012-04-14 02:23:29 PM  

zarberg: So ... TARP is bad because we should let companies just fail on their own, yet we need to keep voting for subsidies to Big Oil?


well, tarp they can pin on obama, even though it was under bush, but whatever republicans aren't interested in facts.

the oil thing? they'll ride this 'everything for big business, fark working class families' platform of theirs until their last breath.

which hopefully is soon.
 
2012-04-14 02:25:43 PM  

Gunther: Satanic_Hamster: Who would you be punishing? The people who caused all this crap mad a HUGE amount of money off it. They were rich either way.

Exactly. I cannot even begin to understand the "let 'em fail" mindset.


You don't understand because you are not trying.

The default situation is to do nothing. The let them fail mindset is "you have not provided me with enough reason to do something, therefore I default to doing nothing."

And again, for clarity, I was for the bailout. But you act as if the alternative view was crazy and ridiculous. It wasn't. You even know that, you yourself said:

Gunther: rather than just farking hoping that if we let the people who did this wreck the economy enough times, they will learn to behave.

 
2012-04-14 02:28:18 PM  
what welfare queens might look like

i269.photobucket.com

the new face of public assistance. I think we should drug test them
 
2012-04-14 02:28:23 PM  
So all us taxpayers can expect a check, like a dividend or something like that? Or will all this "profit" get put towards the countries debt?
 
2012-04-14 02:29:31 PM  

DeltaPunch: quatchi: Is this the thread where our resident righties go from blaming Obama for TARP to praising Bush for it?

Cos those are always fun.

Why hasn't Obama captured Bin Laden yet, huh?!? Useless twat!

*later*

Yeah, it was the Seal Team that killed Bin Laden, Obama had nothing to with it, and it was all thanks to the intel from Bush!


Seriously, it's become like a little mental game with me now. Whenever a piece of political news comes out I always try to figure out how they are gonna spin it to make "Bad news... for Obama".

Obama cures Cancer?

FOX News headline: Obama throws thousands of oncologists out of work!

Poe's law in full effect 24/7.
 
2012-04-14 02:33:40 PM  

QU!RK1019: I_C_Weener: If TARP was so great let's privatize SS

You know who else had a privatized SS?


Chile?
 
2012-04-14 02:35:49 PM  

lennavan: Inaction. That is inaction. It is not a punishment, a punishment requires actively doing something.


I'm not gonna argue it, but it seems to me that there's no real difference. If you see your kid throwing rocks at a beehive and you don't interfere because you think a few stings will teach them a lesson, that might not fit the dictionary definition of "punishment", but it's functionally the same thing.

lennavan: You seem to believe a bailout is a right of the corporations and I have to explain to you why we should withhold a bailout.


What? Of course not. The various corporations that got bailed out really, really did not deserve a bailout. They got a bailout because it was necessary to avoid economic collapse.

lennavan: I think we both know we're going to see "too big to fail" again in our lifetimes.


I have a solution: we clone Roosevelt:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-04-14 02:37:24 PM  

cbackous: So all us taxpayers can expect a check, like a dividend or something like that? Or will all this "profit" get put towards the countries debt?


Its free/found money, time to start a new program.
 
2012-04-14 02:37:51 PM  
So, the government stepped in, helped out, and everything went better than expected....what the hell is this, Bizarro World?
 
2012-04-14 02:39:35 PM  

Gunther: Satanic_Hamster: Who would you be punishing? The people who caused all this crap mad a HUGE amount of money off it. They were rich either way.

Exactly. I cannot even begin to understand the "let 'em fail" mindset.


I'm for the bailout, despite the massively bullshiat initial request. And I'm very annoyed that it wasn't paired with any major regulation changes and punishments.
 
2012-04-14 02:40:13 PM  
This means Sarah Palin is automatically president and Barack Obama has to drive to all 57 states in a Ford Pinto.
 
2012-04-14 02:40:15 PM  

AlteredChemical: So, the government stepped in, helped out, and everything went better than expected


img.anongallery.org
 
2012-04-14 02:40:45 PM  
Accounting tricks are not "profit."
 
2012-04-14 02:42:20 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: And I'm very annoyed that it wasn't paired with any major regulation changes and punishments.


Same here. We should've only given them the money under strict terms and conditions to basically clean their shiat up to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Instead we just threw the money at them because the GOP thought putting any more regulations on the banks would be "unfair" to them.
 
2012-04-14 02:43:21 PM  
Oh boy oh boy, chocolate rations have increased.

This is double plus good for Obama.
 
2012-04-14 02:44:46 PM  
This has been brought up multiple times on Fark, and I always ask: Where's my check?

If we profited from it, then we'll get a check. I'm not holding my breath, though. Any so-called "profit" will be doled into the deficit spending that has been going on for decades. This is shameless corporatism where our government and big corporate financial companies gladhand each other while people are trying to pick themselves up from a massive financial loss in the housing market from a bubble caused by the very people who are now benefitting from it.

The bailout sucks.
 
2012-04-14 02:49:09 PM  

lennavan: Long story short - if a small private business starts failing tomorrow and you told me for 100% sure if the government bails it out, taxpayers will make money and a hell of a lot of it, I would say no, the government should absolutely not bail it out. This is not what our government should be doing.


Teatard logic: what is right is what works, instead of what works is what is right.
 
2012-04-14 02:51:49 PM  

quatchi: Seriously, it's become like a little mental game with me now. Whenever a piece of political news comes out I always try to figure out how they are gonna spin it to make "Bad news... for Obama".


Yeah, like how the pundits at Fox News are literally incapable of complimenting Obama on anything, ever. After all, if they're so "fair and balanced", you'd think they'd praise him a little here and there for all the criticizing they do. Of course, they'd just tell you that Obama hasn't done a single thing worthy of praise...
 
2012-04-14 02:52:19 PM  
Oh, and I should also ask: What happened to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who was "absorbed" by the government and now owns almost all the home loans in the market through various private lending companies? This wasn't considered part of TARP, but was a bailout nontheless - so far, reports last year are saying it's the most expensive government rescue efforts and it could reach over $200 billion in losses. Bailout continues to suck even more.
 
2012-04-14 02:56:06 PM  
Wow what a crock of shiat.
 
2012-04-14 02:57:01 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Before the revisionist historians get here, a reminder that TARP was originally developed by the Bush WH.


wrong. the WH had zero to do with it. Hank Paulson, Tim Geithner and a small cadre of Treasury, Fed Reserve, and FDIC officials created TARP on the fly. The WH was barely involved and the president was essentially briefed after the fact.

It's also worth noting that a lot of TARP's profits have come from Geithner's Treasury Dept taking a much harder line on the valuation of the preferred stock warrants that TARP recipients had to give in exchange for TARP funds. When companies went to re-purchase them, they cost them something closer to FMV than they had been hoping.
 
2012-04-14 02:58:26 PM  

Magorn: wrong. the WH had zero to do with it. Hank Paulson, Tim Geithner and a small cadre of Treasury, Fed Reserve, and FDIC officials created TARP on the fly. The WH was barely involved and the president was essentially briefed after the fact.


He did sign off on it though.

Bush had as much of a role with TARP as Obama did in catching/killing Bin Laden.
 
2012-04-14 03:00:01 PM  

DeltaPunch: quatchi: Seriously, it's become like a little mental game with me now. Whenever a piece of political news comes out I always try to figure out how they are gonna spin it to make "Bad news... for Obama".

Yeah, like how the pundits at Fox News are literally incapable of complimenting Obama on anything, ever. After all, if they're so "fair and balanced", you'd think they'd praise him a little here and there for all the criticizing they do. Of course, they'd just tell you that Obama hasn't done a single thing worthy of praise...


They aren't even trying to appear fair and balanced and yet they repeat the claim every couple of minutes. It's madness. Speaking of which...

Mrtraveler01: Satanic_Hamster: And I'm very annoyed that it wasn't paired with any major regulation changes and punishments.

Same here. We should've only given them the money under strict terms and conditions to basically clean their shiat up to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Instead we just threw the money at them because the GOP thought putting any more regulations on the banks would be "unfair" to them.


Lot of THIS.
 
2012-04-14 03:03:16 PM  

GAT_00: Bhasayate: GAT_00: AcneVulgaris: Bullshiat.

Just wholesale denial of facts because you don't like them?

I like facts, but it's terribly hard to figure out what they are. And given that both the government and the media are involved, we have good reason to think that we don't know the relevant facts, or that the facts are being misrepresented in some way.

So, yeah, I doubt this story, too. I'm not sure if it's bullshiat or what though. Probably is. I dunno.

So, you don't like this, so you'll just insert handwaving to say that this probably isn't true so you can convince yourself that you're still believing in real facts, though you just dismissed them with handwaving?

This isn't the only study to say this. There have been quite a few analyses that show that while TARP was farking terrible, it did net a profit.


No, I didn't read it, and I don't let my personal opinions about X sway whether or not I believe the government and/or the media is telling the truth when they talk about X. I didn't read the other studies. Maybe they're good, maybe not. I don't know. But I'm skeptical, yes.
 
2012-04-14 03:05:23 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: I think TARP needs a snappy name, similar to Obamacare.

The Bushouts?

TARD: Troubled Asset Relief Dubya


TORG: Troubled Organization Relief George
 
2012-04-14 03:06:04 PM  

Gunther: If you see your kid throwing rocks at a beehive and you don't interfere because you think a few stings will teach them a lesson, that might not fit the dictionary definition of "punishment", but it's functionally the same thing.


No, it really isn't. Lack of action is not a punishment. Look up the definition of the word punish, they all require action. "to impose" "to inflict" "to subject" these all require action. Doing nothing is not actively inflicting bee stings on your kid. The bees are punishing your kid. You are "not saving your kid from a punishment." That's not the same as inflicting the punishment yourself.

Gunther: What? Of course not. The various corporations that got bailed out really, really did not deserve a bailout. They got a bailout because it was necessary to avoid economic collapse.


Right. And if they did not get a bailout, it was not because taxpayers wanted to actively punish them. It was because taxpayers felt government had no business there.

Perhaps a better analogy - Chilean miners were trapped in a mine. I did not go save them. It's not because I wanted to punish them, it's because I had no business in Chile, let alone in a mine. When miners are caught in a mine, you call (I have no idea who but it sure as fark ain't me). When private businesses are going bankrupt, you call the bankruptcy courts, it sure as fark ain't the government. It's not such an unreasonable position to take.
 
2012-04-14 03:07:33 PM  

Giltric: It cited rising share prices for two of the companies it rescued, General Motors Co


I guess they mean the new GM...not the old GM where debt was wiped out and creditors were told to go screw...


Something that happens in every Ch 11 Bankruptcy. The only reason people are butthurt about this one is because they were really hoping the UAW was going to take it in the shorts and they didn't


And I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you aren't familiar with what the "commercial paper markets are" or what happened to them in October 08 you Don't understand TARP or why it was so utterly necessary
 
2012-04-14 03:10:03 PM  

sirrerun: Accounting tricks are not "profit."


This x infinity

They are going to spin spin spin the numbers.
 
2012-04-14 03:16:36 PM  

CujoQuarrel: sirrerun: Accounting tricks are not "profit."

This x infinity

They are going to spin spin spin the numbers.


So the program that Dubya started is being spun by the Fartbama administration as successful.

/my brain hurts.
 
2012-04-14 03:18:24 PM  

sirrerun: Accounting tricks are not "profit."


See, libs? Once someone starts listening to Fox and AM Radio, you no longer can convince them with facts. Period. Because they now have their OWN facts that line up nicely with their beliefs, and your facts are automatically liberal lies that aren't to be trusted. And proving them wrong perversely makes them believe in their errors even more strongly.

You better face up to reality, libs. I know it's hard to understand the conservative mind, but you need to work on it if you want to start getting things accomplished. It's like quantum mechanics, it makes no actual sense, but there are rules that can be used.
 
2012-04-14 03:29:00 PM  
So all of the rightists in here are right pissed about a right-wing program?

Guess y'all should vote Democratic next time, huh?
 
2012-04-14 03:30:40 PM  

lennavan: Look up the definition of the word punish, they all require action. "to impose" "to inflict" "to subject" these all require action


Which is why I said: "that might not fit the dictionary definition of "punishment", but it's functionally the same thing".

lennavan: Perhaps a better analogy - Chilean miners were trapped in a mine. I did not go save them. It's not because I wanted to punish them, it's because I had no business in Chile, let alone in a mine


OK, but the government does have business in ensuring that the economy doesn't collapse.
 
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