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(The Raw Story)   18-year-old in Iran refuses to take off jacket in class, receives seven hours of electric shock torture in return. Iran? Oops, meant to say Massachusetts   (rawstory.com) divider line 232
    More: Asinine, electric shocks, Iran, jackets, torture, refuses  
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26647 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2012 at 10:10 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-14 01:14:00 PM  
Electric shocks, wizard of oz themes, masks reminiscent of Eyes wide shut decorating a wall, butterfly decorations, etc...You've got to be kidding me! Monarch programming is real? *Tin foil hat ON*

This deserves a SCARY AS HELL tag! What a sick place!
 
2012-04-14 01:14:51 PM  

namegoeshere: If you used these methods to train a dog, what kind of dog do you think you'd end up with in the end?


Well. I've tried to teach my dog the alphabet using standard methodology, but all she does is fart on my leg as a sign of affection.
 
2012-04-14 01:15:26 PM  

ruinevil: Leads to a little memory loss.


It leads to working memory damage. If the damage is permanent is up for debate. My own experiences say it's not completely permanent, but you're never quite the same either.

Working memory can be related to the task at hand, word recall, and other various parts of non long term memory.

Long term memory is also effected, but by means of memories being cut off from access, not forgetting them. I may not remember an event until prompted, but once I am I can remember just fine.

There are also a number of different placements for the electrodes that can have different effect. Bi-lateral, unilateral, frontal placement all have differing effects. (The standard electrode placement is bad for very left handed people because it passes current through your muscle memory. Nothing like waking up and forgetting how to drive your car. Ok, that's actually hyperbole. you won't forget how to drive)
 
2012-04-14 01:16:23 PM  

namegoeshere: If you used these methods to train a dog, what kind of dog do you think you'd end up with in the end?


icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com
The snack is also you.
 
2012-04-14 01:17:20 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Yeah, I... I'm going to wait for better options to come around.


Often the only "better" options are long-term in-patient care or suicide. If you'd rather do those you certainly can, but ECT is frequently considered a better alternative both by those who have been treated and those recommending ECT in the first place.

Most medical treatments have negative side effects, some quiet sever -- think chemotherapy. We do them anyway because the status quo is already bad, and the risk presented by the treatment is outweighed by the risk of not treating, and the benefits of treatment.
 
2012-04-14 01:20:22 PM  

profplump: Most medical treatments have negative side effects, some quiet sever


Severability is a concept that I can only accept from a legal point of view, not a medical one.
 
2012-04-14 01:22:26 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2012-04-14 01:22:49 PM  

fluffy2097: ruinevil: Leads to a little memory loss.

It leads to working memory damage. If the damage is permanent is up for debate. My own experiences say it's not completely permanent, but you're never quite the same either.

It wipes your RAM and leaves the journal and metadata mangled, like a random, hard reboot.
 
2012-04-14 01:24:13 PM  

profplump: Salt Lick Steady: Yeah, I... I'm going to wait for better options to come around.

Often the only "better" options are long-term in-patient care or suicide. If you'd rather do those you certainly can, but ECT is frequently considered a better alternative both by those who have been treated and those recommending ECT in the first place.

Most medical treatments have negative side effects, some quiet sever -- think chemotherapy. We do them anyway because the status quo is already bad, and the risk presented by the treatment is outweighed by the risk of not treating, and the benefits of treatment.


If meds and talk aren't working for you and ECT scares you, you can also look into Trans-cranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS). TMS uses magnetic fields to effect changes in the brain. This is less invasive, you don't have to be sedated during the process, and is also somewhat less effective. (but it also has only been around a few years so they're still learning how to make it effective)

An interesting adaption of TMS is actually in the F-22 raptor. it has a TMS system in the seat that lets you put your head back, activate it for 15 seconds, and it gives you the equivalent of a power nap.
 
2012-04-14 01:27:03 PM  

fluffy2097: An interesting adaption of TMS is actually in the F-22 raptor. it has a TMS system in the seat that lets you put your head back, activate it for 15 seconds, and it gives you the equivalent of a power nap.


I need one for my desk chair.
 
2012-04-14 01:29:36 PM  
Everybody is all up agin' socialism.

Meanwhile sociopathy is eating your lunch.

Back in the day, if a dog bit a human, that genetic line ended right then and there.
Now, we treat dogs like we should humans and allow our people to be treated like dogs in the name of any number of New Order Priorities.

/fark
 
2012-04-14 01:32:09 PM  

ruinevil: fluffy2097: An interesting adaption of TMS is actually in the F-22 raptor. it has a TMS system in the seat that lets you put your head back, activate it for 15 seconds, and it gives you the equivalent of a power nap.

I need one for my desk chair.


An F-22 is a bit big for a cubical, but I like your desire to drop Laser guided bombs on your paperwork. You sound like management material.

/seriously though, I want to know about long term safety of that stuff before using it in my desk chair.
//Depression intervention has a higher level of acceptable risk then sitting in an office chair.
 
2012-04-14 01:32:25 PM  

fluffy2097: profplump: Salt Lick Steady: Yeah, I... I'm going to wait for better options to come around.

Often the only "better" options are long-term in-patient care or suicide. If you'd rather do those you certainly can, but ECT is frequently considered a better alternative both by those who have been treated and those recommending ECT in the first place.

Most medical treatments have negative side effects, some quiet sever -- think chemotherapy. We do them anyway because the status quo is already bad, and the risk presented by the treatment is outweighed by the risk of not treating, and the benefits of treatment.

If meds and talk aren't working for you and ECT scares you, you can also look into Trans-cranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS). TMS uses magnetic fields to effect changes in the brain. This is less invasive, you don't have to be sedated during the process, and is also somewhat less effective. (but it also has only been around a few years so they're still learning how to make it effective)

An interesting adaption of TMS is actually in the F-22 raptor. it has a TMS system in the seat that lets you put your head back, activate it for 15 seconds, and it gives you the equivalent of a power nap.


Do you know anything about EMDR? I've yet to meet someone who actually can vouch for it.
 
2012-04-14 01:32:41 PM  

GAT_00: Hey, you people wanted a police state to keep you safe from the uppity hippies and minorities. This is what you get.


And by "you people" you mean the heavily-Democrat people of Massachusetts?
 
2012-04-14 01:33:35 PM  
You know, some people pay for electric torture..
 
2012-04-14 01:35:46 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Do you know anything about EMDR? I've yet to meet someone who actually can vouch for it.


Nope. I talked with my therapist about TMS and said "Nothing can possibly be worse then I feel now. Give me the most aggressive treatment possible." Got bi-lateral sine wave. Later I had a course of bi-frontal square pulse treatments.

/I think I feel better now more from moving environments then the treatments.
 
2012-04-14 01:36:57 PM  

fluffy2097: //Depression intervention has a higher level of acceptable risk then sitting in an office chair.


Clearly you never worked for my last boss.
 
2012-04-14 01:37:17 PM  

whyerhead: You know, some people pay for electric torture..


And some people pay for high colonics.
They seem to share a common audience.
 
2012-04-14 01:38:38 PM  
Why the fark would you film this?


(I mean, obviously: why would you even do this; but if you did why the fark would you film it?)
 
2012-04-14 01:40:29 PM  

Wyalt Derp: Why the fark would you film this?


(I mean, obviously: why would you even do this; but if you did why the fark would you film it?)


Three words.. RULE Thirty four.
 
2012-04-14 01:42:23 PM  

whyerhead: Wyalt Derp: Why the fark would you film this?


(I mean, obviously: why would you even do this; but if you did why the fark would you film it?)

Three words.. RULE Thirty four.


Amd also to prevent law suits...
 
2012-04-14 01:44:28 PM  

whyerhead: whyerhead: Wyalt Derp: Why the fark would you film this?


(I mean, obviously: why would you even do this; but if you did why the fark would you film it?)

Three words.. RULE Thirty four.

Amd also to prevent law suits...


I can spot a tiny flaw in this logic...
 
2012-04-14 01:46:44 PM  

namegoeshere: If you used these methods to train a dog, what kind of dog do you think you'd end up with in the end?


A dog that will damn well do what it's told?

Had a problem with my Husky running across the street for absolutely no reason other than to be an asshole. Just run to the other yard, do a few laps around/through the guy's garden (which he just loved.) and come back.

Dog almost got hit by a car one day. (I think it might have even clipped her tail...it was close), so I got a shock collar, and every time she stepped foot in the street, I'd zap her ass. (Zapped myself on the highest setting, so I could see what she would be experiencing on the different power levels. And if it is good enough more me...) A couple of times of that and she stopped running across the street. Much better than having her guts squished out her butthole, I think.

/troll
I bet the kid takes off his jacket next time..
//end troll
 
2012-04-14 01:52:13 PM  

KimNorth: Pray tell what happen and where are the Spartans now???


Living in Sparta.
 
2012-04-14 01:52:51 PM  

MythDragon: namegoeshere: If you used these methods to train a dog, what kind of dog do you think you'd end up with in the end?

A dog that will damn well do what it's told?

Had a problem with my Husky running across the street for absolutely no reason other than to be an asshole. Just run to the other yard, do a few laps around/through the guy's garden (which he just loved.) and come back.

Dog almost got hit by a car one day. (I think it might have even clipped her tail...it was close), so I got a shock collar, and every time she stepped foot in the street, I'd zap her ass. (Zapped myself on the highest setting, so I could see what she would be experiencing on the different power levels. And if it is good enough more me...) A couple of times of that and she stopped running across the street. Much better than having her guts squished out her butthole, I think.

/troll
I bet the kid takes off his jacket next time..
//end troll


Did you hold your dog down and shock it for seven hours for one in-the-road incident? Or, as is also in line with the "teaching" methods of this school, did you deliberately force the dog into the road in order to shock it for being in the road? Then your dog training methods are not comparable to what is done to children at this school.
 
2012-04-14 02:02:09 PM  
Sometimes it's cool to be ghay! In this case, not!
 
2012-04-14 02:14:45 PM  
Electroshock therapy is a real thing. The patients are given anesthetic, and they don't feel a thing. If that's torture, so is getting your wisdom teeth removed.
 
2012-04-14 02:15:28 PM  
Milgram approves.
 
2012-04-14 02:15:48 PM  

ignacio: Electroshock therapy is a real thing. The patients are given anesthetic, and they don't feel a thing. If that's torture, so is getting your wisdom teeth removed.


You know that that is not this, right?
 
2012-04-14 02:18:56 PM  
 
2012-04-14 02:39:11 PM  

snocone: Everybody is all up agin' socialism.

Meanwhile sociopathy is eating your lunch.

Back in the day, if a dog bit a human, that genetic line ended right then and there.
Now, we treat dogs like we should humans and allow our people to be treated like dogs in the name of any number of New Order Priorities.

/fark


Damn, guard dogs must have really sucked back in the day.
 
2012-04-14 02:39:20 PM  
Wasn't this an episode of Law and Order once?

I remember because Sam Waterson told the doctor that by the time he was through, he would see the man lynched right there in the courtroom.
 
2012-04-14 02:46:32 PM  

jaylectricity: Wow, I applied for a job there once. They have some amazing rooms for the kids to play in, but while waiting for the interview they had a video playing on the television showing what you might have to do to restrain an unruly child.

They called me back, but I didn't take the job because I didn't think I'd be up for it.


Given your Fark handle I thought you'd be into that kind of thing . . .
 
2012-04-14 02:49:35 PM  
This is terrible and all, but what I really want to know is in which way I need to twist this into some partisan political issue during an election year. Are there any armchair pundits here that can tell me how I am supposed to properly think about this?
 
2012-04-14 02:52:47 PM  
Seven hours? You know how much that must have cost?

/yes, Mistress!
 
2012-04-14 02:53:42 PM  

Pichu0102: Is this the old tard shockin school from a few years back?


It is.
 
2012-04-14 02:54:47 PM  

jonas opines: This is terrible and all, but what I really want to know is in which way I need to twist this into some partisan political issue during an election year. Are there any armchair pundits here that can tell me how I am supposed to properly think about this?


GAT_00 2012-04-14 08:45:52 AM

Hey, you people wanted a police state to keep you safe from the uppity hippies and minorities. This is what you get.
 
2012-04-14 03:02:40 PM  
Sadistic motherfarkers.
 
2012-04-14 03:03:13 PM  
it seems to me this is just the free market acting as it should. if you don't want to get shocked, don't be retarded. easy enough.

/snark
 
2012-04-14 03:04:44 PM  

ignacio: Electroshock therapy is a real thing. The patients are given anesthetic, and they don't feel a thing. If that's torture, so is getting your wisdom teeth removed.


Did you watch the video? This child did not receive ECT.
 
2012-04-14 03:07:28 PM  
do people believe me now when i say that teachers are all wannabe members of the S.S.?
 
2012-04-14 03:13:41 PM  

fluffy2097: An interesting adaption of TMS is actually in the F-22 raptor. it has a TMS system in the seat that lets you put your head back, activate it for 15 seconds, and it gives you the equivalent of a power nap.


Can you cite that? I'm interested in reading about it.
 
2012-04-14 03:24:18 PM  
how exactly is this legal??? I thought we were done with this crap 100+ years ago.
 
2012-04-14 03:25:48 PM  
That Mother Jones article was fascinating, and reminded me a lot of the Stanford Prison experiment and this documentary I once saw on Nazi medical experiments.

Guy starts out with good intentions. There really are severely retarded and disabled individuals who are an immediate and constant danger to themselves, I'm not talking about cutters or violent teens, but the severely autistic who bite, slam their heads, punch or otherwise damage themselves repeatedly. He starts off using a relatively mild form of aversion therapy. Remember these are children who you can't talk to, or reason with, they only understand physical sensation; pain, pleasure, and even these are mixed up in their wiring. The mild pain is meant to avert far more dangerous or permanent damage.

And the initial results are dramatic. But eventually, they get used to the more mild form and more painful shocks are needed. And if it works for these kids, why not kids who are less profoundly disturbed. And if it works on these behaviors, why not less serious behaviors.

But you need to be consistent, so the teachers administering them are carefully indoctrinated and intimidated into administering the shocks. Outside pressure in the form of investigations causes you to fear and distrust outsiders, so instead of questioning your own methods and results, you lash out.

Now you have an entire culture geared towards administering shocks and defending it. That leads to greater emphasis on it and less on other forms of rehabilitation and to what we see on the video.

It's appalling and disgusting, and very normal, well meaning individuals started it, escalated it, and defended it.


What I found most interesting though was the reaction of some of the parents of the severely autistic. One mother said the shocks kept them from keeping their severely retarded child heavily drugged and sedated. That now the child was able to go on vacations with them. I think a child with little understanding of the world or self would prefer a sleepy and drowsy existence to regular and intense pain. If the difference is taking a nap in the morning versus being bundled into a car to go on a trip to someplace I can't comprehend while being shocked, I know what I'd prefer. I wonder who is really being helped here, the child or the parent who can pretend for a few hours that their child is normal.
 
2012-04-14 03:28:53 PM  
We have a lot of things going for us in Massachusetts. Our behavioral health program isn't one of them.

/crazyleadingcrazy
 
2012-04-14 03:49:07 PM  
My undergrad developmental psych used cattle prods on kids with autism. He claimed it was better than letting them repeatedly bang their heads against the floor. I was an undergrad in the early 70's. That professor is still in prison in New York State.
 
2012-04-14 03:52:16 PM  
It's like the Milgram experiment and the Stanford Prison experiment all rolled into one.
 
2012-04-14 03:53:35 PM  

gopher321: .
.

SHOCK THE TARD !

..


I think I remember the original thread about this.

"I like pie.... *ZAP*"
 
2012-04-14 03:53:51 PM  

luktti: The staff need to take 31 jolts each. You know. To prove it's safe. And good for you.


          ↑     ↑     ↑
 
2012-04-14 03:57:44 PM  

Wyalt Derp: Why the fark would you film this?


(I mean, obviously: why would you even do this; but if you did why the fark would you film it?)


You should broaden your definition of pornography, just wee bit.
 
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