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(Boing Boing)   Skeptic arrested and charged with blasphemy for pointing out a "miracle" was actually a leaky pipe and capillary action at work. See India, this is why you can't have nice things   (boingboing.net ) divider line
    More: Fail, miracles, capillary action  
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10072 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Apr 2012 at 9:37 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-13 10:39:05 PM  

Snarfangel: I think the universe is miraculous enough as it is. There is no need to believe the God does bizarre or illogical things just to mess with us.


Indeed.
 
2012-04-13 10:39:25 PM  
Hmm, the=that. That divine typo should prove the existence of...something.
 
2012-04-13 10:39:45 PM  
This is almost as bad as putting "In God We Trust" on the coinage.
 
2012-04-13 10:40:12 PM  

lousyskater: ultraholland: [farm2.static.flickr.com image 500x421]

weeping jesus

I want to believe.


Habeeb it!
 
2012-04-13 10:42:28 PM  
Feels his pain...

edu.glogster.com
 
2012-04-13 10:44:11 PM  
wait...

Hundreds of people came every day to pray and collect some of the "holy water" in bottles and vessels.

and

just a bit of statuary located near a leaky drain

I'm interested in knowing what KIND of drain... storm or sewer?
 
2012-04-13 10:44:19 PM  

TsarTom: Can any religion file blasphemy charges in India?


It's worse than that. Unlike in the US, where only a public prosecutor can file criminal charges, India has a "criminal complaint" system that allows ordinary citizens to make criminal allegations, and even though the police is supposed to vet them, often they just go and arrest the accused anyway.

naturally, this is a heavily abused system.
 
2012-04-13 10:44:35 PM  
Mind wins.
 
2012-04-13 10:52:12 PM  

CrispFlows: I'm curious, what rational explanation could there be for a blasemephy charge? what sensible, reasonable and rational explanation could there be for the other side?


None.

However, part of being rational involves being, inherently, honest. As a result, I feel compelled to point out that this entire article's basis is a single blog entry from a group of people who have a pretty obvious reason to be biased. I'm hardly an expert on Indian law so part of my conclusion on this story is based on pure ignorance and blind assumption.

While it seems very likely that this is pure idiocy from a bunch of backwards, sub-primordial vermin using ridiculous voodoo nonsense as a substitute for basic critical thinking, it is not, in fact, a certainty.
 
2012-04-13 10:56:45 PM  

Splinshints: However, part of being rational involves being, inherently, honest


That is an obvious conclusion that I never thought about, but as I think about my most rational friends it is absolutely true.
 
2012-04-13 11:00:12 PM  

ko_kyi: That is an obvious conclusion that I never thought about, but as I think about my most rational friends it is absolutely true.


Just don't confuse honesty with accuracy. You can be honest and wrong at the same time.

/ being rational is a lot harder than it seems
 
2012-04-13 11:01:32 PM  

ruinevil: I don't think they really have those laws... at least according to wikipedia


Wow, just looked at that Wikipedia article. It is really depressing how many countries I usually think of as being relatively free have laws against blasphemy.
 
2012-04-13 11:02:06 PM  

Snarfangel: I think the universe is miraculous enough as it is. There is no need to believe the God does bizarre or illogical things just to mess with us.


Heh, the more science discovers, the more I believe in "god"--in the strict Deist sense of the word.

Isn't it "miraculous" enough that water would leak down from the ceiling and be drawn up through a statue in seeming defiance of gravity via the actions of physics? Why does it need to be MORE of a miracle to some people to justify their existence on earth?
 
2012-04-13 11:04:21 PM  

Splinshints: ko_kyi: That is an obvious conclusion that I never thought about, but as I think about my most rational friends it is absolutely true.

Just don't confuse honesty with accuracy. You can be honest and wrong at the same time.

/ being rational is a lot harder than it seems


Say the scorekeepers...

;)
 
2012-04-13 11:05:13 PM  

TsarTom: The priest of Our Lady of Velankanni church, and representatives of the Association of Concerned Catholics (AOCC) demanded that Sanal apologize. When they saw Sanal refused to bow to their demands, they.. file(d) a blasphemy case against him.

Can any religion file blasphemy charges in India?


I want to know what's considered blasphemy against Pastafarianism.
 
2012-04-13 11:05:18 PM  
Came for "Enemy of the People" reference... (Too obscure?).

Someone needs to come forward and promise to build them another one to trade for this poor man's absolution.
Wouldn't be that hard. Use the right wood and I bet you could get blood-like-water out of the nail areas.

The right person could turn this into a regular job ... I've got the slogan - "We Make Miracles!"

\\I've got a leak in my roof - wait - A MIRACLE - Water from GOD!
\\\I've got MIRACLE Holy water to sell - only $250 an ounce.
\\\\Don't believe me - Blasphemer!
\\Really, yours for only $250. You can't prove it isn't Holy!
 
2012-04-13 11:06:33 PM  
What's the over/under on Rome stepping in to fix this, and admonish this branch of the church for their asshattery?

I mean, I know they're busy right now, what with all the running around with their hair on fire about Kate Upton, but if the catholic church as a whole isn't stuck in a 16th-century mindset, you'd think the pope or somebody would take a moment to say, "This guy caught you nitwits red-handed. Take your lumps and STFU."
 
2012-04-13 11:06:45 PM  

minarke: Came for "Enemy of the People" reference... (Too obscure?).

Someone needs to come forward and promise to build them another one to trade for this poor man's absolution.
Wouldn't be that hard. Use the right wood and I bet you could get blood-like-water out of the nail areas.

The right person could turn this into a regular job ... I've got the slogan - "We Make Miracles!"

\\I've got a leak in my roof - wait - A MIRACLE - Water from GOD!
\\\I've got MIRACLE Holy water to sell - only $250 an ounce.
\\\\Don't believe me - Blasphemer!
\\Really, yours for only $250. You can't prove it isn't Holy!


Read ref.

You need to pay ore.

;)
 
2012-04-13 11:07:21 PM  

Indubitably: minarke: Came for "Enemy of the People" reference... (Too obscure?).

Someone needs to come forward and promise to build them another one to trade for this poor man's absolution.
Wouldn't be that hard. Use the right wood and I bet you could get blood-like-water out of the nail areas.

The right person could turn this into a regular job ... I've got the slogan - "We Make Miracles!"

\\I've got a leak in my roof - wait - A MIRACLE - Water from GOD!
\\\I've got MIRACLE Holy water to sell - only $250 an ounce.
\\\\Don't believe me - Blasphemer!
\\Really, yours for only $250. You can't prove it isn't Holy!

Read ref.

You need to pay ore.

;)


I mean it.
 
2012-04-13 11:09:12 PM  

Splinshints: Just don't confuse honesty with accuracy. You can be honest and wrong at the same time.


No doubt, and the list of things I honestly believe that are wrong is probably very long. I do the best I can.
 
2012-04-13 11:09:43 PM  
Blasphemy is a non crime committed by a man against men with power who
feel their power is being threatened. It has nothing to do with religion.
 
2012-04-13 11:09:57 PM  
I don't consider weeping objects or mysterious likenesses to be miracles. Miracles tend be things that are beneficial, like a healing.
 
2012-04-13 11:12:47 PM  
ciberido:
I want to know what's considered blasphemy against Pastafarianism.

How about too much time playing with your noodly appendage.

Or, maybe not enough time.

obligatory link - http://xkcd.com/54/
 
2012-04-13 11:13:35 PM  
When they came for the skeptics, I said nothing, for I was not a skeptic...
 
2012-04-13 11:14:26 PM  

sparkeyjames: Blasphemy is a non crime committed by a man against men with power who
feel their power is being threatened. It has nothing to do with religion.


exactly, it has to do with fear...

and so is religion?

fear not, friends.

mind wins.

;)
 
2012-04-13 11:15:20 PM  

Splinshints: ko_kyi: That is an obvious conclusion that I never thought about, but as I think about my most rational friends it is absolutely true.

Just don't confuse honesty with accuracy. You can be honest and wrong at the same time.

/ being rational is a lot harder than it seems


As far as that goes, you can be rational and wrong at the same time, too.
 
2012-04-13 11:15:47 PM  

minarke: Came for "Enemy of the People" reference... (Too obscure?).


The disease spreads and the town dies. There is little else to be concluded. Reason, like disease, cannot be subducted by simple angry resentment.

/ yes, I realize that's not the point, but, again, being a realist, I have to come to the realistic conclusion that the town suffered a serious blight for its arrogant outrage
 
2012-04-13 11:18:08 PM  
ciberido:

Can any religion file blasphemy charges in India?

I want to know what's considered blasphemy against Pastafarianism.


img834.imageshack.us
 
2012-04-13 11:18:50 PM  

jso2897: As far as that goes, you can be rational and wrong at the same time, too.


Only if you use the wrong assumptions. Which, of course, is a possibility and, of course, means that, technically, you are right. Rational people are not, inherently, correct only by their reasoning.
 
2012-04-13 11:20:10 PM  

Splinshints: jso2897: As far as that goes, you can be rational and wrong at the same time, too.

Only if you use the wrong assumptions. Which, of course, is a possibility and, of course, means that, technically, you are right. Rational people are not, inherently, correct only by their reasoning.


Adverbs and commas, not yer friend.

Heh.

;)
 
2012-04-13 11:20:47 PM  
The Catholic Church is a hierarchical institution, so ultimately this falls on Rome. No organization that supports this sort of repression should be allowed to operate in the United States. Religious freedom has to be balanced with freedom of speech and if your organization supports this sort of human rights abuses you should be considered a terrorist organization. We've expanded our laws to cover our citizens abroad. We've expanded our definition of citizen to include corporations, ergo, we should be able to require corporations to follow our laws. The church is just another form of corporation.
 
2012-04-13 11:21:35 PM  

Mimekiller: Well American atheists sometimes have to see religions icons on PUBLIC LAND.


Maybe you should move to India where you can oppress properly?
 
2012-04-13 11:25:53 PM  

ciberido: TsarTom: The priest of Our Lady of Velankanni church, and representatives of the Association of Concerned Catholics (AOCC) demanded that Sanal apologize. When they saw Sanal refused to bow to their demands, they.. file(d) a blasphemy case against him.

Can any religion file blasphemy charges in India?

I want to know what's considered blasphemy against Pastafarianism.


Pesto. Pesto is blasphemy.
 
2012-04-13 11:27:49 PM  
poor persecuted Christians......
 
2012-04-13 11:27:59 PM  

sparkeyjames: Blasphemy. Oh for Christ sake.


given that there is no such thing as a miracle, anyone who claims to have seen a miracle or believe in miracles should be locked up as dangerously delusional.
wait, what?
that would mean the majority of people are delusional?
sigh
 
2012-04-13 11:28:46 PM  

Indubitably: Splinshints: jso2897: As far as that goes, you can be rational and wrong at the same time, too.

Only if you use the wrong assumptions. Which, of course, is a possibility and, of course, means that, technically, you are right. Rational people are not, inherently, correct only by their reasoning.

Adverbs and commas, not yer friend.

Heh.

;)


I have always sucked at semi-colons but shouldn't there be one after "commas"?
 
2012-04-13 11:32:37 PM  

namatad: sparkeyjames: Blasphemy. Oh for Christ sake.

given that there is no such thing as a miracle, anyone who claims to have seen a miracle or believe in miracles should be locked up as dangerously delusional.
wait, what?
that would mean the majority of people are delusional?
sigh


You figured this out just now?

urtoast.files.wordpress.com

/Not sure why Charles Manson shows up on so many pieces of toast.
 
2012-04-13 11:33:57 PM  

Sabyen91: Indubitably: Splinshints: jso2897: As far as that goes, you can be rational and wrong at the same time, too.

Only if you use the wrong assumptions. Which, of course, is a possibility and, of course, means that, technically, you are right. Rational people are not, inherently, correct only by their reasoning.

Adverbs and commas, not yer friend.

Heh.

;)

I have always sucked at semi-colons but shouldn't there be one after "commas"?


Nope, no verb.

Punctuation at will.

P.S. I don't like yo frikkin' with me anymo. bookmark: game over.
 
2012-04-13 11:34:52 PM  

namatad: given that there is no such thing as a miracle, anyone who claims to have seen a miracle or believe in miracles should be locked up as dangerously delusional.
wait, what?
that would mean the majority of people are delusional?
sigh


Humans have achieved a high degree of evolutionary success because we are very adapted to recognizing patterns. Our brains are so predisposed to recognize patterns that we do it very well when no actual pattern exists. How many people wear their "lucky" socks when their favorite teams play an important game? Even when they know it is pointless, on some level they feel "better" about their team's chances.
 
2012-04-13 11:38:26 PM  

ko_kyi: How many people wear their "lucky" socks when their favorite teams play an important game? Even when they know it is pointless, on some level they feel "better" about their team's chances.


I should add, when uncontrolled, this instinct leads to human sacrifice to ensure a good crop and similar abominations. It is an evolved trait that humanity must fight against.
 
2012-04-13 11:42:06 PM  
Religious miracles are big business in India.

You don't to mess with Big Sadhu!
 
2012-04-13 11:43:17 PM  

spesimen: ciberido:

Can any religion file blasphemy charges in India?

I want to know what's considered blasphemy against Pastafarianism.

[img834.imageshack.us image 600x146]


ciberido requested an example of blasphemy against Pastafarianism. What you have referenced is an example of Pastafarianism communion.
 
2012-04-13 11:44:17 PM  

Sabyen91: namatad: sparkeyjames: Blasphemy. Oh for Christ sake.

given that there is no such thing as a miracle, anyone who claims to have seen a miracle or believe in miracles should be locked up as dangerously delusional.
wait, what?
that would mean the majority of people are delusional?
sigh

You figured this out just now?

[urtoast.files.wordpress.com image 400x400]

/Not sure why Charles Manson shows up on so many pieces of toast.


I'm wondering why he's got a big booger on the right side of his nose.
 
2012-04-13 11:47:09 PM  

ko_kyi: namatad: given that there is no such thing as a miracle, anyone who claims to have seen a miracle or believe in miracles should be locked up as dangerously delusional.
wait, what?
that would mean the majority of people are delusional?
sigh

Humans have achieved a high degree of evolutionary success because we are very adapted to recognizing patterns. Our brains are so predisposed to recognize patterns that we do it very well when no actual pattern exists. How many people wear their "lucky" socks when their favorite teams play an important game? Even when they know it is pointless, on some level they feel "better" about their team's chances.


The head of the department for which I am employed reported an inability to access the primary web application used by the department. Investigation revealed his password to exceed the maximum valid password length for the application. He refused to change his password because the local college basketball team had begun consistently winning since his password had been set and he believed that their winning streak would end should he change his password.

I presume that he charged his password at some time after April 1st, when his "winning" password somehow failed to cause the local basketball team to win the game played the night previously.
 
2012-04-13 11:48:26 PM  

Corporate Self: Religious miracles are big business in India.

You don't to mess with Big Sadhu!


That might make sense if it weren't Catholics doing this.
 
2012-04-13 11:49:21 PM  

Splinshints: You know, it's easy to dismiss this as third world shiatholery, but if you're Catholic (or, really, just "religious") and think this is just "third world shiatholery", you probably don't believe what you claim to believe in the sense that the church you attend teaches you to believe it.

It's all well and good to go to church every Sunday, but this bullshiat is what YOUR bullshiat really is when it's actually applied.

/ all that said, the entire article is based entirely on one side of the argument as presented on Boing Boing....


And what other side would there be to charging someone with blasphemy as a crime?

I understand other nations dont necessarily have a separation of church and state, but in what civilized society and under what circumstances is arresting someone for blasphemy ok? And none of that "the laws the law" bullshiat.
 
2012-04-13 11:50:02 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Sabyen91: namatad: sparkeyjames: Blasphemy. Oh for Christ sake.

given that there is no such thing as a miracle, anyone who claims to have seen a miracle or believe in miracles should be locked up as dangerously delusional.
wait, what?
that would mean the majority of people are delusional?
sigh

You figured this out just now?

[urtoast.files.wordpress.com image 400x400]

/Not sure why Charles Manson shows up on so many pieces of toast.

I'm wondering why he's got a big booger on the right side of his nose.


Now that I look at it closely I see this:

cache.io9.com
 
2012-04-13 11:55:40 PM  
Religion>Critical Thinking
 
2012-04-13 11:57:14 PM  

Cyno01: I understand other nations dont necessarily have a separation of church and state, but in what civilized society and under what circumstances is arresting someone for blasphemy ok? And none of that "the laws the law" bullshiat.


My point is that I know nothing of the law in question so I have little reason to pass judgment on the charges based solely on a blog posting from a person or people who have a reason to be biased. In other words, admitting my own fallibility doesn't make me wrong, but I still need to admit it.

Indubitably: Adverbs and commas, not yer friend.


Oh, I don't know. I'd say their prevalence suggests they like me just fine. :)
 
2012-04-13 11:58:38 PM  

stuffy: Religion>Critical Thinking


Seriously?

stfu.

y'all just stfu.

ugh.

SO upset...

Burn.

;)
 
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