FARK.com: (7048837) The problem with the "Buffett Rule" isn't that Warren Buffett's secretary pays more in tax than he does, it's that she's being called a "secretary" instead of an "administrative assistant"

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		The problem with the "Buffett Rule" isn't that Warren Buffett's secretary pays more in tax than he does, it's that she's being called a "secretary" instead of an "administrative assistant" (edition.cnn.com)		291
		More: Asinine, Buffett Rule, Warren Buffett, Megan Carpentier, Joan Holloway, Talking Points Memo

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mrshowrules		2012-04-13 03:44:24 PM

Garet Garrett: Not sure that's "the" problem with the Buffett Rule:

[www.zerohedge.com image 500x311]

My your logic, why tax any individual group of tax payers any amount, unless that tax alone significantly offsets the deficit. Why tax rich people at all?

CPennypacker		2012-04-13 03:45:03 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

When you tear down his argument he doesn't cry, he posts more stupid shiat until you call him a moron, then he ignores you.

Have fun!

//Wish I wasn't on ignore so he could still see me call him a moron.

James!		2012-04-13 03:45:09 PM

Garet Garrett: Not sure that's "the" problem with the Buffett Rule:

[www.zerohedge.com image 500x311]

Zero hedge again?

The_Six_Fingered_Man		2012-04-13 03:46:24 PM

EWreckedSean: skullkrusher: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

this doesn't even make sense.

That capital gains is a marginal tax as well? What doesn't make sense?

Link (new window)

Just doubling down, eh?

Your marginal tax rate has dickall to do with your different types of income. It has everything to do with your AMOUNT of income. Only when calculating effective rates do the TYPES of income come into play.

skullkrusher		2012-04-13 03:46:59 PM

EWreckedSean: skullkrusher: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

this doesn't even make sense.

That capital gains is a marginal tax as well? What doesn't make sense?

Link (new window)

The phrase "capital gains is marginal". The tax rates on LT cap gains is progressive to a degree. The rates on ST cap gains are tied to your ordinary income bracket so also progressive in that way. To say that they are "marginal"... just doesn't make any sense.

EWreckedSean		2012-04-13 03:47:14 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

It's the rate that applies to the highest bracket of income you receive. In capital gains, long term, you have 0% and 15% brackets. Short term they are the same as income tax brackets.

qorkfiend		2012-04-13 03:47:21 PM

CPennypacker: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

When you tear down his argument he doesn't cry, he posts more stupid shiat until you call him a moron, then he ignores you.

Have fun!

//Wish I wasn't on ignore so he could still see me call him a moron.

Are T6FM and EWS really about to Farkbattle?

Chummer45		2012-04-13 03:49:24 PM

That was one of the dumbest articles I have ever read. It never ceases to amaze me what incredibly stupid shiat passes for news these days.

Earlier on CNN, there was an entire article describing Zimmerman's jail cell, and it listed all the personal items (soap, candy, etc.) that he bought from the jail's comissary.

robertus		2012-04-13 03:49:44 PM

The_Sponge: gaslight: Title inflation comes from insecurity.

CSB:

Back in high school, I worked at a grocery store. While my official title was "courtesy clerk", I always referred to myself as a bag boy.

You and me both.
/Called myself "Cart Pusher"

skullkrusher		2012-04-13 03:50:33 PM

Chummer45: That was one of the dumbest articles I have ever read. It never ceases to amaze me what incredibly stupid shiat passes for news these days.

Earlier on CNN, there was an entire article describing Zimmerman's jail cell, and it listed all the personal items (soap, candy, etc.) that he bought from the jail's comissary.

CNN still trying to pretend he's not hispanic, huh?

/I keed

Dr Dreidel		2012-04-13 03:54:08 PM

EWreckedSean: Dr Dreidel: EWreckedSean: She doesn't pay remotely more in taxes than he does. She has a higher marginal rate. Not remotely the same thing.

And "marginal" and "effective" rates are also not the same thing.

Warren Buffett's Executive Secretary Assistant to the Executive of Secretarial Affairs (Executive Level) likely pays a LOWER marginal rate than Buffet does (or the same one - they don't go higher than 35%, and that's for single filers making north of $380k - I think).

Her effective rate is higher, and that's the consternation.

She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually. They are both marginal taxes on income though.

Do you know how taxes work?

A MARGINAL RATE is the percentage an income bracket is subject to. The top bracket (the MARGINAL RATE for which is 35%) starts at $380k - I think - for single filers. For every dollar of AGI, starting with your 380,001st dollar and going as high as your AGI does, you owe $.35 (35% of each dollar) to the Feds. The other MARGINAL RATES are for income levels (we call them "brackets") below $380k, but I'm too lazy to look them up. Suffice to say, the lower your income, the lower your rate (and your first...$8850? is untaxed, same as Warren Buffet's and everyone else's).

MARGINAL RATES are constant from person to person, the only difference is how much income the rate applies to. EFFECTIVE RATES vary wildly due to the above.

Your EFFECTIVE RATE is usually not known until you've calculated your bill for the year, based on the MARGINAL RATES your AGI is subject to and the various deductions, etc that you claim. Your EFFECTIVE RATE is the percentage of your AGI you owed in taxes for the last year.

Warren Buffet's EA pays a higher EFFECTIVE RATE than he does, largely due to the volume of WB's income that comes from capital gains (taxed at a MARGINAL RATE of 15%). Just FYI, the income level subject to a 15% MARGINAL RATE is $17,001-69,000. WB likely made more than that in cap gains in a week.

// all info from memory and based on single filer
// except the 15% bracket - I looked that up
// I can't believe you don't know this already

Goban		2012-04-13 03:54:26 PM

skullkrusher: I always have extra parts left over when I assemble my administrative assistants

[www.ikea.com image 500x500]

I think of them as Spare Parts for when they eventually get worn down.

Garet Garrett		2012-04-13 03:55:39 PM

Corvus: So then if it doesn't fix more of the debt it's not worth doing?

Hey, I'd feel better if Buffett paid a higher %age of taxes than I do BUT ONLY IF IT MEANT MY TAXES WENT DOWN. Otherwise any good feelings that come of it are entirely schadenfreude. In practical reality, focusing on feel-good measures like the Buffett Rule, because they don't have any appreciable impact on our crushing deficits, just distracts us from making the hard choices that we need to make and effectively promotes the continuing spiraling of federal spending, which means I'm going to have to pay more and more taxes going forward. So the Buffett Rule effectively raises my taxes.

And, btw, if you think real millionaires and billionaires will actually ever be subject to such requirements, you're too gullible for words. The Buffetts and Kerrys of the world will always be able to put their money in places to shield it from taxes, so long as we don't have an absolute, across-the-board flat tax, because they can afford to put it wherever it's taxed least, regardless of return. Me and you? We have to earn what we spend, and taxing earnings is what the Fed is best at.

/btw, that was the only Buffett Rule v. Deficits chart I could find on the 1st 3 pages of GIS, since Google is pretty determined to make sure that Lefty postings on the Ryan plan come up before Righty blog posts on the Buffett Rule, even when you search for "Buffett Rule -ryan". You can nit-pick but you know this is symbolic at best - and you know this because Obama said so.

Hydra		2012-04-13 03:57:00 PM

CPennypacker: Then post one for Obama budget vs Ryan plan. I bet its even worse.

Ryan's plan doesn't go far enough to fix the problem (excessive federal spending), either - the fact it has been attacked the way it has even though it barely chips away at future spending just speaks to the enormity of our problems.

The point of the Zero Hedge link is to show how miniscule this tax is in terms of closing the deficit gap. Our problem is undeniably a spending problem, but no progressive will agree to cuts in ANYTHING unless it involves taking EVEN MORE in taxes than is already taken directly through the tax code and indirectly through borrowing and inflation.

qorkfiend		2012-04-13 03:58:25 PM

Saiga410		2012-04-13 03:59:25 PM

What does where you store the good china and the effective tax rate paid by exective sub vice president in charge of note taking have to do with each other?

Serious Black		2012-04-13 03:59:28 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man		2012-04-13 04:00:27 PM

EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

It's the rate that applies to the highest bracket of income you receive. In capital gains, long term, you have 0% and 15% brackets. Short term they are the same as income tax brackets.

Well, you've explained the basics of marginal tax rates and shown the tax rates at which cap gains are effectively taxed. Now how about you explain how marginal rates are calculated and explain how the effective rate on LTCG factors into that calculation.

Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

EWreckedSean		2012-04-13 04:01:09 PM

Serious Black: Hydra: CPennypacker: Then post one for Obama budget vs Ryan plan. I bet its even worse.

Ryan's plan doesn't go far enough to fix the problem (excessive federal spending), either - the fact it has been attacked the way it has even though it barely chips away at future spending just speaks to the enormity of our problems.

The point of the Zero Hedge link is to show how miniscule this tax is in terms of closing the deficit gap. Our problem is undeniably a spending problem, but no progressive will agree to cuts in ANYTHING unless it involves taking EVEN MORE in taxes than is already taken directly through the tax code and indirectly through borrowing and inflation.

Actually, I'd be willing to simply pare back many of our tax expenditures in lieu of raising marginal tax rates to raise revenue.

I think adding some higher brackets would make more sense. Maybe a $1 million and $5 million bracket. Then you get out of the argument that you are raising taxes on small business owners.

CPennypacker		2012-04-13 04:01:21 PM

Hydra: CPennypacker: Then post one for Obama budget vs Ryan plan. I bet its even worse.

Ryan's plan doesn't go far enough to fix the problem (excessive federal spending), either - the fact it has been attacked the way it has even though it barely chips away at future spending just speaks to the enormity of our problems.

The point of the Zero Hedge link is to show how miniscule this tax is in terms of closing the deficit gap. Our problem is undeniably a spending problem, but no progressive will agree to cuts in ANYTHING unless it involves taking EVEN MORE in taxes than is already taken directly through the tax code and indirectly through borrowing and inflation.

Ryan's plan calls for EVEN MORE excessive spending in the form of tax breaks for people who don't need them and should be paying more. It will increase the deficits.

Our problem is a money problem. We don't have enough for what we want to spend. We can fix that by collecting more money, spending less money, or both. The problem is the GOP refuses to compromise on revenues AT ALL even though the Democrats are willing to compromise on entitlements, and the GOP will not cut defense, which is a bloated budget and way too much of a percentage of what we spend.

So no, its not "undeniably a spending problem"

Jormungandr		2012-04-13 04:03:58 PM

qorkfiend: CPennypacker: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

When you tear down his argument he doesn't cry, he posts more stupid shiat until you call him a moron, then he ignores you.

Have fun!

//Wish I wasn't on ignore so he could still see me call him a moron.

Are T6FM and EWS really about to Farkbattle?

If they don't do it in rap-battle format then, meh.

The_Six_Fingered_Man		2012-04-13 04:05:20 PM

Jormungandr: qorkfiend: CPennypacker: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

When you tear down his argument he doesn't cry, he posts more stupid shiat until you call him a moron, then he ignores you.

Have fun!

//Wish I wasn't on ignore so he could still see me call him a moron.

Are T6FM and EWS really about to Farkbattle?

If they don't do it in rap-battle format then, meh.

I've already dropped my mic and walked off stage.

EWreckedSean		2012-04-13 04:05:33 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

It's the rate that applies to the highest bracket of income you receive. In capital gains, long term, you have 0% and 15% brackets. Short term they are the same as income tax brackets.

Well, you've explained the basics of marginal tax rates and shown the tax rates at which cap gains are effectively taxed. Now how about you explain how marginal rates are calculated and explain how the effective rate on LTCG factors into that calculation.

Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

They are set rates, and you pay that rate in taxes for an income within that bracket. e.g. you pay 10% for all income from 0 to ~$8500, 15% on income ~$8500 to ~$35,000, and so forth. The capital gains rate on long term is based on your top income tax marginal rate if I remember correctly.

jackiepaper		2012-04-13 04:09:19 PM

Hydra: CPennypacker: Then post one for Obama budget vs Ryan plan. I bet its even worse.

Ryan's plan doesn't go far enough to fix the problem (excessive federal spending), either - the fact it has been attacked the way it has even though it barely chips away at future spending just speaks to the enormity of our problems.

The point of the Zero Hedge link is to show how miniscule this tax is in terms of closing the deficit gap. Our problem is undeniably a spending problem, but no progressive will agree to cuts in ANYTHING unless it involves taking EVEN MORE in taxes than is already taken directly through the tax code and indirectly through borrowing and inflation.

This isnt true at all. Its just that many on the left correctly note how bloated our military budget is, yet that sacred cow can apparently never be touched.

There is no need for us to outspend the rest of the world combined on our military

The_Six_Fingered_Man		2012-04-13 04:10:16 PM

EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

It's the rate that applies to the highest bracket of income you receive. In capital gains, long term, you have 0% and 15% brackets. Short term they are the same as income tax brackets.

Well, you've explained the basics of marginal tax rates and shown the tax rates at which cap gains are effectively taxed. Now how about you explain how marginal rates are calculated and explain how the effective rate on LTCG factors into that calculation.

Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

They are set rates, and you pay that rate in taxes for an income within that bracket. e.g. you pay 10% for all income from 0 to ~$8500, 15% on income ~$8500 to ~$35,000, and so forth. The capital gains rate on long term is based on your top income tax marginal rate if I remember correctly.

Then please explain to me how you parse that with "She pays a higher marginal rate because all of [Buffet's] income is capital gains."

Keep in mind that Buffett's income includes his $100,000 salary, his $346,925 income for personal and home security (taxed as ordinary rates because it's not a tax exempt fringe benefit) and $50,000 for sitting on the board of The Post.

That's $496,925 of ordinary (not cap gains) income.

That alone pushes him into the highest tax marginal bracket WITHOUT taking into consideration his stocks.

imontheinternet		2012-04-13 04:11:18 PM

EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

It's the rate that applies to the highest bracket of income you receive. In capital gains, long term, you have 0% and 15% brackets. Short term they are the same as income tax brackets.

Well, you've explained the basics of marginal tax rates and shown the tax rates at which cap gains are effectively taxed. Now how about you explain how marginal rates are calculated and explain how the effective rate on LTCG factors into that calculation.

Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

They are set rates, and you pay that rate in taxes for an income within that bracket. e.g. you pay 10% for all income from 0 to ~$8500, 15% on income ~$8500 to ~$35,000, and so forth. The capital gains rate on long term is based on your top income tax marginal rate if I remember correctly.

Ah, yes. The refractory topsider rate catches them every time, and it is perfunctively marginal.

/give up, dude

Debeo Summa Credo		2012-04-13 04:12:21 PM

gameshowhost: SlothB77: Your tax rate looks pretty good when you don't pay them. (new window)

Berkshire Hathaway, the eighth-largest public company in the world according to Forbes, openly admits to still owing taxes for years 2002 through 2004 and 2005 through 2009, according to the New York Post. The company says it expects to "resolve all adjustments proposed by the US Internal Revenue Service" within the next year.

And since the majority of Buffett's income comes from dividends and capital games -- taxed indirectly through the corporate income tax -- "his effective rate would really be well north of 40 percent for a big chunk of his income."

[i42.tinypic.com image 550x751]

/obligatory, necessary, misleading

Completed that for you.

Income earned through labor is taxed once.
Income learned through ownership of a sole proprietorship or partnership is taxed once.
Income earned through ownership of a corporation is taxed at the corporate level, then taxed again when distributed to the owner.

Should the record store pay income tax on profit from the sale of CDs, then the record store owner pay another tax when he takes the money out of the register/business bank account to use for his own needs? If not, then why is it automatic that an owner of a corporation should be subject to two levels of tax?

What that comic strip needs is to recognize that in between the bank receiving cash on the car loan it has to pay a tax, leaving it less to pay to the shareholder.

for the record, I'm in favor of the extra tax, but the 'my secretary pays less than me' line is bullshiat for the exact reason SlothB77 gives, and Buffett and Obama know it.

mrshowrules		2012-04-13 04:12:38 PM

Dr Dreidel: Warren Buffet's EA pays a higher EFFECTIVE RATE than he does, largely due to the volume of WB's income that comes from capital gains (taxed at a MARGINAL RATE of 15%). Just FYI, the income level subject to a 15% MARGINAL RATE is $17,001-69,000. WB likely made more than that in cap gains in a week.

// all info from memory and based on single filer
// except the 15% bracket - I looked that up
// I can't believe you don't know this already

Very well explained. However, Conservatives don't have to understand the details to any degree to know that Obama and the Buffet Rule are wrong and bad for America.

I May Be Crazy But...		2012-04-13 04:16:59 PM

FTFA: ...consigned to the same heap containing "stewardess," "love child" and "going steady."

Wait, people don't go steady any more? I'm pretty sure that's what my girlfriend and I are doing. Does this mean we have to see different people or something?

mrshowrules		2012-04-13 04:17:06 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean:
Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

Yes but the tax amateur divisions are very promising this year. People doing it for money, just don't have the same passion for the game.

EWreckedSean		2012-04-13 04:17:45 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: She has a higher marginal rate because his income is almost all capital gains actually.

Don't do that. Don't try to talk intelligently about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Marginal rates have very little to do with the type of income, and all to do with the amount of income. EFFECTIVE rates have more to do with type of income.

You understand that capital gains is marginal also right?

Before I tear down your argument and make you cry, what do YOU think a marginal tax rate is and how is it calculated?

/Enrolled Agent

It's the rate that applies to the highest bracket of income you receive. In capital gains, long term, you have 0% and 15% brackets. Short term they are the same as income tax brackets.

Well, you've explained the basics of marginal tax rates and shown the tax rates at which cap gains are effectively taxed. Now how about you explain how marginal rates are calculated and explain how the effective rate on LTCG factors into that calculation.

Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

They are set rates, and you pay that rate in taxes for an income within that bracket. e.g. you pay 10% for all income from 0 to ~$8500, 15% on income ~$8500 to ~$35,000, and so forth. The capital gains rate on long term is based on your top income tax marginal rate if I remember correctly.

Then please explain to me how you parse that with "She pays a higher marginal rate because all of [Buffet's] income is capital gains."

Keep in mind that Buffett's income includes his $100,000 salary, his $346,925 income for personal and home security (taxed as ordinary rates because it's not a tax exempt fringe benefit) and $50,000 for sitting on the board of The Post.

That's $496,925 of ordinary (not cap gains) income.

That alone pushes him into the highest tax marginal bracket WITHOUT taking into consideration his stocks.

15% versus 28%, or whatever her top marginal rate is. But I get your point.

EWreckedSean		2012-04-13 04:18:20 PM

mrshowrules: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean:
Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

Yes but the tax amateur divisions are very promising this year. People doing it for money, just don't have the same passion for the game.

He's still not going to sleep with you.

Saiga410		2012-04-13 04:18:45 PM

How does Buffett get so much capital gains when his main holdings is of Berkshire Hathaway which does not issue dividends?

Are we calculating his rate by unrealized gains?

The_Six_Fingered_Man		2012-04-13 04:20:25 PM

EWreckedSean: 15% versus 28%, or whatever her top marginal rate is. But I get your point.

No, apparently you don't. His ordinary income ALONE pushes him into the 35% top bracket. She cannot possibly have a HIGHER marginal rate than he does.

tgregory		2012-04-13 04:20:56 PM

Buffett paid more in taxes than his secretary. Actually, more in one year than she will in a multiple lifetimes.

Buffett has invested his money and pays a CAPITAL GAINS TAX on the money he's wisely invested.

Should we punish people for working or investing wisely?

tenpoundsofcheese		2012-04-13 04:21:14 PM

Dr Dreidel		2012-04-13 04:21:55 PM

mrshowrules: Dr Dreidel: Warren Buffet's EA pays a higher EFFECTIVE RATE than he does, largely due to the volume of WB's income that comes from capital gains (taxed at a MARGINAL RATE of 15%). Just FYI, the income level subject to a 15% MARGINAL RATE is $17,001-69,000. WB likely made more than that in cap gains in a week.

// all info from memory and based on single filer
// except the 15% bracket - I looked that up
// I can't believe you don't know this already

Very well explained. However, Conservatives don't have to understand the details to any degree to know that Obama and the Buffet Rule are wrong and bad for America.

Thanks. I'm a Communication major, so explanation should be easy. How I know business and math, though...

// clearly, I'm a witch

skullkrusher		2012-04-13 04:24:12 PM

EWreckedSean		2012-04-13 04:24:22 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: 15% versus 28%, or whatever her top marginal rate is. But I get your point.

No, apparently you don't. His ordinary income ALONE pushes him into the 35% top bracket. She cannot possibly have a HIGHER marginal rate than he does.

Yes, I do. I get it, my terminology was off. Thanks for the information.

redmid17		2012-04-13 04:25:07 PM

Dr Dreidel: mrshowrules: Dr Dreidel: Warren Buffet's EA pays a higher EFFECTIVE RATE than he does, largely due to the volume of WB's income that comes from capital gains (taxed at a MARGINAL RATE of 15%). Just FYI, the income level subject to a 15% MARGINAL RATE is $17,001-69,000. WB likely made more than that in cap gains in a week.

// all info from memory and based on single filer
// except the 15% bracket - I looked that up
// I can't believe you don't know this already

Very well explained. However, Conservatives don't have to understand the details to any degree to know that Obama and the Buffet Rule are wrong and bad for America.

Thanks. I'm a Communication major, so explanation should be easy. How I know business and math, though...

// clearly, I'm a witch

a witch which would like a 'wich?

Hydra		2012-04-13 04:25:39 PM

Serious Black: Actually, I'd be willing to simply pare back many of our tax expenditures in lieu of raising marginal tax rates to raise revenue.

That's fine - and that's even what some Republicans, including Tom Coburn, have agreed can be part of a compromise. It's also what some economists would improve the private sector's ability to comply with taxes and enable more entrepreneurs to start new businesses.

These kinds of proposals should be part of the conversation, but we've got to get above this petty "us vs. them" mentality that has infected our political discourse - I'm glad to see that you seem to be able to rise above it.

CPennypacker: Ryan's plan calls for EVEN MORE excessive spending in the form of tax breaks for people who don't need them and should be paying more. It will increase the deficits.

...Which was kind of my point when I said, "Ryan's plan doesn't go far enough to fix the problem (excessive federal spending)."

Our problem is a money problem. We don't have enough for what we want to spend.

So no, its not "undeniably a spending problem"

You just contradicted yourself and admitted the problem in that first statement.

I can't honestly see how you have such a disconnect between these two statements. It's unfathomable to me.

The_Six_Fingered_Man		2012-04-13 04:25:42 PM

EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: 15% versus 28%, or whatever her top marginal rate is. But I get your point.

No, apparently you don't. His ordinary income ALONE pushes him into the 35% top bracket. She cannot possibly have a HIGHER marginal rate than he does.

Yes, I do. I get it, my terminology was off. Thanks for the information.

Not a problem. Back to being buried in tax returns.

CPennypacker		2012-04-13 04:28:15 PM

Hydra:
...Which was kind of my point when I said, "Ryan's plan doesn't go far enough to fix the problem (excessive federal spending)."

Go far enough to fix the deficits? It makes the problem worse!

You just contradicted yourself and admitted the problem in that first statement.

I can't honestly see how you have such a disconnect between these two statements. It's unfathomable to me.

If you can't see the difference between a money problem and a spending problem I can't help you. If money out is more then money in, we have a deficit. You decrease it by increasing money in, decreasing money out, or both.

JPINFV		2012-04-13 04:29:33 PM

babygoat		2012-04-13 04:30:58 PM

tgregory: Buffett paid more in taxes than his secretary. Actually, more in one year than she will in a multiple lifetimes.

Buffett has invested his money and pays a CAPITAL GAINS TAX on the money he's wisely invested.

Should we punish people for working or investing wisely?

Why should someone be "punished" more for working than investing? Hell, if you think taxation is supposed to be a punishment, why did you even get involved in this conversation?

WhyteRaven74		2012-04-13 04:31:00 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: His ordinary income ALONE pushes him into the 35% top bracket.

The top tax bracket for 2011 starts at $379,151, Buffets salary and other compensation as CEO of Berkshire Hathaway is about $330,000. So just going by what he takes home as CEO he isn't in the top tax bracket.

Kibbler		2012-04-13 04:32:55 PM

I just heard--and this is not made up--of a receptionist having her title changed to Director of First Impressions.

The stupidity of it washes over you in waves.

EWreckedSean		2012-04-13 04:33:17 PM

babygoat: tgregory: Buffett paid more in taxes than his secretary. Actually, more in one year than she will in a multiple lifetimes.

Buffett has invested his money and pays a CAPITAL GAINS TAX on the money he's wisely invested.

Should we punish people for working or investing wisely?

Why should someone be "punished" more for working than investing? Hell, if you think taxation is supposed to be a punishment, why did you even get involved in this conversation?

Investment involves risk. If I go to work, I'm going to get a pay check (excepting obvious things like the company folding). If I invest in a stock, I have no guarantee of any positive return. They aren't the same thing.

Debeo Summa Credo		2012-04-13 04:33:29 PM

Saiga410: How does Buffett get so much capital gains when his main holdings is of Berkshire Hathaway which does not issue dividends?

Are we calculating his rate by unrealized gains?

The dividend rate also applies to capital gains, when you sell a share of stock. So if he sells 1/10000th of his, say $50b in stock, thats $5m in cap gains that is taxed at 15%, leaving him $4.25m after tax

Of course, what people fail to comprehend is if you completely eliminated the 35% statutory corporate tax rate that applies to Berkshire, the value of his stock would go up from $50b to $50b/(1-.35)= approx. $75b, and his sale of 1/10000th would yield him $7.5m in pre-tax income. If you then applied a 35% ordinary tax (rather than the cap gains rate), he'd end up with approx $4.9b after tax.

mrshowrules		2012-04-13 04:33:36 PM

EWreckedSean: mrshowrules: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean: The_Six_Fingered_Man: EWreckedSean:
Please remember that you're talking to a tax professional.

Yes but the tax amateur divisions are very promising this year. People doing it for money, just don't have the same passion for the game.

He's still not going to sleep with you.

A) you don't know that for sure
B) maybe I secretly like you and am just trying to make you jealous

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