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29188 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Apr 2012 at 1:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-13 03:04:24 PM
(ducks in)

Anyone mention the dangers of buying candy in Florida?

(ducks back out)
 
2012-04-13 03:07:34 PM

PoochUMD: SwingingJohnson: Trayvon's cell conversation ended seconds before he was dead and the time code on the 911 calls can prove that.

Right, but all it shows is that Martin started a conversation with Zimmerman, Zimmerman responded and someone was shoved. Doesn't really help determine who started it. And even if it was clear on the phone that Trayvon started it, do you really think his girlfriend (after being coached by the lawyer) is going to offer that up?


"WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME?!"

What would you say if Zimmerman was following you on that dark rainy night?

Would you say, "Hello my good man :) It's frightful weather we have here tonight... may I help you sir?"
 
2012-04-13 03:08:37 PM

Silly Jesus: I doubt that the cops could have gone to a judge and said "we don't have any evidence that this guy did anything wrong (by virtue of not having enough to charge him with anything) but will you order that we be able to force him to give us his blood?"


He shot and killed Martin. If he smelled of alcohol, a judge would have granted a search warrant in a second.
 
2012-04-13 03:10:09 PM

SwingingJohnson: What would you say if Zimmerman was following you on that dark rainy night?


Considering the GF tells us Tray hid out to ambush George, I just want to know why he chose that course of action over getting home before George even rounded the corner.
 
2012-04-13 03:10:59 PM

9beers: SwingingJohnson: Trayvon's cell conversation ended seconds before he was dead and the time code on the 911 calls can prove that.

Post the "time codes" of the calls please.


That is evidence that will come out when the trial begins.

Until then, eat your skittles and BACK OFF!
 
2012-04-13 03:10:59 PM

s2s2s2: This is actually huge. Because we KNOW that Trayvon was close by when George thought he had run away. He was already hiding when George rounded the corner. Had he kept running, he could have been entering his house when GZ caught up to him.


Had he stopped running and walked, he would have arrived home before Zimmerman finished his call. It's obvious that he went around the side of the building and hid. Why would somebody hide out of fear when they were so close to home? Why does the girlfriend make no mention of him running or hiding? Why does the girlfriend say that Trayvon is heard asking "why are you following me" followed by Zimmerman asking "why are you here"?

He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man...I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.

Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone.
 
2012-04-13 03:11:06 PM
This is pretty interesting. It's from a redlit thread.

Here's Harvard law professor, and renowned conservative (sarcasm), Alan Dershowitz calling the charges Irresponsible and Unethical.

Without a doubt, he knows less than the anti-Zimmerman folks in here. : )

"You've seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it," Smerconish asked. "It won't suffice," Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge," Dershowitz said. "There's simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder."
(new window)

Also from the interview...

Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. "It's not only thin, it's irresponsible," said Dershowitz.

Dershowitz went on to strongly criticize Corey's decision to move forward with the case against Zimmerman. "I think what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection when she gave her presentation and overcharged. This case will not - if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit - this case will result in an acquittal."

"It's irresponsible and unethical in not including material that favors the defendant."

"This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause," Dershowitz concluded. "everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything."
 
2012-04-13 03:11:48 PM

SwingingJohnson: ChuDogg: Swinging

All that has nothing to do with this case. This is about who was the aggressor that led to this homicide.

Admittedly, the evidence at this stage is very sketchy. But, it appears from 911 recordings that Zimmerman first followed Martin in his car. Zimmerman called 911 and said that Martin was "up to no good" and that he appeared to be "on drugs." Zimmerman also used profanity to describe Martin during the 911 call. Next, Zimmerman left his car and pursued Martin on foot with a loaded gun -- despite the dispatcher advising him not to do so.

Telephone records indicate that Martin was having a conversation with his girlfriend moments before his death, which suggests that he was not provoking Zimmerman into a confrontation. Indeed, Martin's girlfriend has said that he expressed to her that he was frightened and that Zimmerman was following him. She also said that Zimmerman approached Martin and shoved him. Under these facts, Zimmerman seems to have initiated the aggressive contact. Martin was simply walking home. Zimmerman was playing police officer and trying to prevent another "asshole" from "getting away."

If Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, he cannot claim a right to stand his ground. Instead, he should have tried to avoid the conflict by leaving if possible or by indicating to Martin that he meant no harm and that he did not want to continue the offense. Furthermore, if Zimmerman was in fact the initial aggressor, then Martin had the right to stand his ground and defend himself from Zimmerman. Thus, the fact that Zimmerman possibly sustained injuries inflicted by Martin does not excuse his decision to kill the teenager.

[oi41.tinypic.com image 494x279]


You can keep posting that copy-pasta or you can answer what I asked you hours ago, and even directed your attention to subsequently, which you still haven't answered.

Here it is again:


Explain how you arrived at that conclusion? His truck was parked 30 meters away from the shooting, that more than accounts for the 30 seconds or so of "following" we hear on the call.
He then remains on the line for 2 minutes and the altercation occurs 30 meters away from his truck, at the very front of the walkway. How could he have possibly chased Martin? Martins house was 70 yards away, even only a 10 second chase could have brought them way down the neighborhood, yet we have to account for full MINUTES

img685.imageshack.us

So you have to ask yourself two things: 1) Where was Martin, and 2) How did Zimmerman chase and confront him when for a minute and 30 seconds after being told "we don't need you to do that", the altercation occurs almost EXACTLY where zimmerman was standing?


img69.imageshack.us
img812.imageshack.us
img403.imageshack.us

That distance down the walkway from his truck to where the altercation occurred is about 30 meters by the way. We have 30 seconds of his "movement" recorded on the call, and no further movement for the remainder of the call for a minute and 30 seconds. Then after hanging up somehow the altercation occurs right where he is standing.

Sorry, that doesn't appear to be a scared frightened child defending himself from an attacker.
 
2012-04-13 03:12:40 PM

Scerpes: Silly Jesus: I doubt that the cops could have gone to a judge and said "we don't have any evidence that this guy did anything wrong (by virtue of not having enough to charge him with anything) but will you order that we be able to force him to give us his blood?"

He shot and killed Martin. If he smelled of alcohol, a judge would have granted a search warrant in a second.


I missed the part in the police report where he smelled of alcohol.
 
2012-04-13 03:14:22 PM

SwingingJohnson: That is evidence that will come out when the trial begins.


Wait, you were just saying that we know as a fact that Martin was on the phone up until seconds before he was shot. Why are you backing away from that now?
 
2012-04-13 03:17:54 PM

9beers: s2s2s2: This is actually huge. Because we KNOW that Trayvon was close by when George thought he had run away. He was already hiding when George rounded the corner. Had he kept running, he could have been entering his house when GZ caught up to him.

Had he stopped running and walked, he would have arrived home before Zimmerman finished his call. It's obvious that he went around the side of the building and hid. Why would somebody hide out of fear when they were so close to home? Why does the girlfriend make no mention of him running or hiding? Why does the girlfriend say that Trayvon is heard asking "why are you following me" followed by Zimmerman asking "why are you here"?

He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man...I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.

Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone.


It would be good if you admit that there is a lot we both don't know right now.

But while we are typing all our conjecture about what happened that night, it is possible that Trayvon was actually not only running and walking fast at different points, but may have also lost his bearings as to the location of his father's GF's condo. He did not live there and may have been lost along with being followed in the dark by a stranger.

I know I've gotten lost a few times making my way through condos while I was visiting friends. They all look the same dammit!
 
2012-04-13 03:18:31 PM

SwingingJohnson: PoochUMD: SwingingJohnson: Trayvon's cell conversation ended seconds before he was dead and the time code on the 911 calls can prove that.

Right, but all it shows is that Martin started a conversation with Zimmerman, Zimmerman responded and someone was shoved. Doesn't really help determine who started it. And even if it was clear on the phone that Trayvon started it, do you really think his girlfriend (after being coached by the lawyer) is going to offer that up?

"WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME?!"

What would you say if Zimmerman was following you on that dark rainy night?

Would you say, "Hello my good man :) It's frightful weather we have here tonight... may I help you sir?"


"Why are you following me?" is what I would probably say.

But that has nothing to do with my point that the person who spoke first is more likely to be the one who instigated the conversation and not the other way around. If Zimmerman saw Trayvon before Trayvon saw Zimmerman, and his eyes were red with vengeance and blood lust, why didn't he yell at Trayvon first?
 
2012-04-13 03:19:25 PM

Silly Jesus: This is pretty interesting. It's from a redlit thread.


If you google "law professor thinks zimmerman should be charged" you can find professors that say it was correct to charge him, but suddenly it is time to second guess the prosecutor.
 
2012-04-13 03:20:15 PM

9beers: SwingingJohnson: That is evidence that will come out when the trial begins.

Wait, you were just saying that we know as a fact that Martin was on the phone up until seconds before he was shot. Why are you backing away from that now?


I know the same as everyone else from what was reported on news and internet.

Stop arguing like drunk.
 
2012-04-13 03:20:25 PM

Silly Jesus: Scerpes: Silly Jesus: I doubt that the cops could have gone to a judge and said "we don't have any evidence that this guy did anything wrong (by virtue of not having enough to charge him with anything) but will you order that we be able to force him to give us his blood?"

He shot and killed Martin. If he smelled of alcohol, a judge would have granted a search warrant in a second.

I missed the part in the police report where he smelled of alcohol.


He didn't. I'm saying if he had smelled of alcohol...I was only taking issue with the "don't have any evidence that this guy did anything wrong" bit.
 
2012-04-13 03:20:38 PM

9beers: SwingingJohnson: That is evidence that will come out when the trial begins.

Wait, you were just saying that we know as a fact that Martin was on the phone up until seconds before he was shot. Why are you backing away from that now?


I think it's a fact. It's probably closer to 60 seconds than 10 seconds, but he was on the phone seconds before he was shot.

Trayvon (allegedly) punches Zimmerman and drops the phone,
Trayvon is on top of zimmerman while Zimmerman screams for help (that lasts for about 45 seconds I believe)
Zimmerman shoots Trayvon.
 
2012-04-13 03:24:20 PM

Silly Jesus: "This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause," Dershowitz concluded. "everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything."


He clearly hates black people and has most likely murdered a few in his days.
 
2012-04-13 03:24:33 PM

ChuDogg: Swinging


Nice pics.

That could explain a kid that was lost in a condo neighborhood that he was not familiar with and scared out of his farking mind. Should I run? Should I walk? WhoTF is this guy following me?!" "fark! Where my dad's GF's condo?!"
 
2012-04-13 03:24:47 PM

SwingingJohnson: but may have also lost his bearings as to the location of his father's GF's condo. He did not live there and may have been lost along with being followed in the dark by a stranger.


So it is possible his behavior might have looked suspicious?
 
2012-04-13 03:26:24 PM

9beers: SwingingJohnson: We know that Trayvon's cell phone conversation ended seconds before his death.

No we don't. The times that all of these different phone calls took place has not been made public. Based on what the girlfriend has said, I think it's likely that she's lying about what she heard. We know that Martin took off running but she never brings that up in her interview. She makes a point of saying that she knows that Zimmerman pushed Martin but had no idea that Martin was running? Do you actually believe that's possible?


Actually, this is likely to be true. Though call timeline hasn't been released yet, it's been repeated enough that i believe that it is from a credible source. But here is the thing Swinging Johnson and others will ignore:

There isn't a "one minute gap" between his call and the altercation as he is suggesting, that a full minute Zimmerman "gave chase" or whatever.

The "one minute gap" is from the end of Zimmerman's 911 call to when the next 911 call is made reporting the screaming. So in that one minute, we have just enough time for Zimmerman to begin heading back to his truck, Martin approaches out of hiding/darkness/circling around the block/where ever the hell he was, approaches Zimmerman has the physical evidence suggests, the two have their brief exchange of words, somebody is attacked and they wind up on the ground eventually with Zimmerman on the bottom screaming for help for LONG ENOUGH for the first person that hears it to get out their phone and dial 911.

That is credible to fit in a 1 minute time frame. What we don't have time for is for Zimmerman to hang up the phone and continue to chase martin, confront him, and all of that to happen again. Especially considering that the altercation takes place at Zimmermans initial location. So he would have to give chase, scuffle about with Martin, the two run back up back to the North side of the walkway,and then wind up with ZImmerman on the bottom screaming. Just doesn't make sense.

Once again, everything fits Zimmerman's story, the one he gave to police almost immediately after the event and had almost no time to make up a credible cover story to fit with evidence later uncovered.

Now for the required "since we don't now what happened, it's anyone's speculation who attacked first". Sure, Martin could have approached him and Zimmerman attacked him first. But what we can conclude

1) There is simply not enough time for Zimmerman to chase and confront Martin
2) There is simply not enough distance for Zimmerman to chase and confront Martin.

Conclusion: Martin approached Zimmerman
 
2012-04-13 03:27:12 PM

SwingingJohnson: "fark! Where my dad's GF's condo?!"


usually in florida each condo in a subdivision is very distinct and you can tell them apart from miles away, it's like rainbow row in Charleston.
 
2012-04-13 03:27:51 PM

SwingingJohnson: It would be good if you admit that there is a lot we both don't know right now.


I will admit that there is a lot we don't know right now. So much so, that I can make the claim that Zimmerman is not going to be convicted of anything based on what we know so far.

If you want to believe that the prosecution has a smoking gun, that's your choice. Given the weak affidavit they filed, it leads me to believe otherwise.
 
2012-04-13 03:29:00 PM

Silly Jesus: This is pretty interesting. It's from a redlit thread.

Here's Harvard law professor, and renowned conservative (sarcasm), Alan Dershowitz calling the charges Irresponsible and Unethical.

Without a doubt, he knows less than the anti-Zimmerman folks in here. : )

"You've seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it," Smerconish asked. "It won't suffice," Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge," Dershowitz said. "There's simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder." (new window)

Also from the interview...

Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. "It's not only thin, it's irresponsible," said Dershowitz.

Dershowitz went on to strongly criticize Corey's decision to move forward with the case against Zimmerman. "I think what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection when she gave her presentation and overcharged. This case will not - if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit - this case will result in an acquittal."

"It's irresponsible and unethical in not including material that favors the defendant."

"This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause," Dershowitz concluded. "everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything."


So the guy who defended OJ Simpson and Claus Von Bulow is now defending Zim? Historically, I guess that means two things:

A Hes guilty
B He will get away with it
 
2012-04-13 03:29:31 PM

ChuDogg: 1) There is simply not enough time for Zimmerman to chase and confront Martin
2) There is simply not enough distance for Zimmerman to chase and confront Martin.

Conclusion: Martin approached Zimmerman


It is possible that after Zimmerman hung of the phone, we walked a few feet down the path and inadvertently come across Martin's hiding spot.
 
2012-04-13 03:32:50 PM

Headso: Silly Jesus: This is pretty interesting. It's from a redlit thread.

If you google "law professor thinks zimmerman should be charged" you can find professors that say it was correct to charge him, but suddenly it is time to second guess the prosecutor.


If you google "scientist denies climate change" you also get a lot of results.

The majority of the professors etc. that I have heard comment are on the side of this being a political/publicity stunt of some sort and in agreement that there is not enough evidence for the charges. Many think that the judge will throw this nonsense out before it even starts. From everything that I have seen and read and from my own experience, I am inclined to agree.
 
2012-04-13 03:33:43 PM
This will be powerful evidence if it can be determined.

I myself have no idea if that was Trayvon's or Zimmerman's voice. Grown men can scream in a high pitch when they are in a panic. If it turns out that it is Trayvon's, Zimmerman is done.

Hopefully they can get samples of Tray's voice to make it conclusive.

From the DISCOVERY NEWS site:

Trayvon Martin 911 Call: How Experts ID Voices (new window)
 
2012-04-13 03:34:34 PM

Scerpes: Silly Jesus: Scerpes: Silly Jesus: I doubt that the cops could have gone to a judge and said "we don't have any evidence that this guy did anything wrong (by virtue of not having enough to charge him with anything) but will you order that we be able to force him to give us his blood?"

He shot and killed Martin. If he smelled of alcohol, a judge would have granted a search warrant in a second.

I missed the part in the police report where he smelled of alcohol.

He didn't. I'm saying if he had smelled of alcohol...I was only taking issue with the "don't have any evidence that this guy did anything wrong" bit.


Using a gun while intoxicated is illegal in most circumstances. That would fall under "doing something wrong." They didn't think that he was doing anything wrong.
 
2012-04-13 03:36:47 PM

SwingingJohnson: Hopefully they can get samples of Tray's voice to make it conclusive


They may only need George's.

Tell him he is going to genpop, walk him to a cell with two, large men wearing hoodies, holding skittles and SB1070* Tea. Have a recorder ready to capture the screamlarity.

* We all know Arizona has it out for Latinos.
 
2012-04-13 03:37:13 PM

you are a puppet: Silly Jesus: This is pretty interesting. It's from a redlit thread.

Here's Harvard law professor, and renowned conservative (sarcasm), Alan Dershowitz calling the charges Irresponsible and Unethical.

Without a doubt, he knows less than the anti-Zimmerman folks in here. : )

"You've seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it," Smerconish asked. "It won't suffice," Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge," Dershowitz said. "There's simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder." (new window)

Also from the interview...

Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. "It's not only thin, it's irresponsible," said Dershowitz.

Dershowitz went on to strongly criticize Corey's decision to move forward with the case against Zimmerman. "I think what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection when she gave her presentation and overcharged. This case will not - if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit - this case will result in an acquittal."

"It's irresponsible and unethical in not including material that favors the defendant."

"This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause," Dershowitz concluded. "everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything."

So the guy who defended OJ Simpson and Claus Von Bulow is now defending Zim? Historically, I guess that means two things:

A Hes guilty
B He will get away with it


Pretty sure it just means he understands the legal system regardless of the defendant's guilt or lack there of. Guilty or not, the burden of proof is on the state. Yes this means if you shoot someone in the face and they can't prove you shot them in the face, you don't get in trouble. This concept is not a difficult one.
 
2012-04-13 03:38:08 PM

you are a puppet: Silly Jesus: This is pretty interesting. It's from a redlit thread.

Here's Harvard law professor, and renowned conservative (sarcasm), Alan Dershowitz calling the charges Irresponsible and Unethical.

Without a doubt, he knows less than the anti-Zimmerman folks in here. : )

"You've seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it," Smerconish asked. "It won't suffice," Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge," Dershowitz said. "There's simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder." (new window)

Also from the interview...

Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. "It's not only thin, it's irresponsible," said Dershowitz.

Dershowitz went on to strongly criticize Corey's decision to move forward with the case against Zimmerman. "I think what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection when she gave her presentation and overcharged. This case will not - if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit - this case will result in an acquittal."

"It's irresponsible and unethical in not including material that favors the defendant."

"This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause," Dershowitz concluded. "everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything."

So the guy who defended OJ Simpson and Claus Von Bulow is now defending Zim? Historically, I guess that means two things:

A Hes guilty
B He will get away with it


He doesn't have a stake in this one. He's not getting paid to defend the guy. Also, lawyers defend people all the time that they know or think are guilty, that doesn't make their legal opinion any less valid.
 
2012-04-13 03:39:25 PM

Silly Jesus: The majority of the professors etc. that I have heard comment are on the side of this being a political/publicity stunt of some sort and in agreement that there is not enough evidence for the charges.


based on your comments that would be what you want to read.
 
2012-04-13 03:40:51 PM

SwingingJohnson: From the DISCOVERY NEWS site:

Trayvon Martin 911 Call: How Experts ID Voices (new window)



Voice biometrics has been deemed unreliable by the FBI.

I doubt we'll ever know who the scream was on the 911 tape but we do know for a fact that an eyewitness saw Zimmerman screaming for help while being assaulted by Martin.
 
2012-04-13 03:42:19 PM

jfivealive: you are a puppet: Silly Jesus: This is pretty interesting. It's from a redlit thread.

Here's Harvard law professor, and renowned conservative (sarcasm), Alan Dershowitz calling the charges Irresponsible and Unethical.

Without a doubt, he knows less than the anti-Zimmerman folks in here. : )

"You've seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it," Smerconish asked. "It won't suffice," Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge," Dershowitz said. "There's simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder." (new window)

Also from the interview...

Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. "It's not only thin, it's irresponsible," said Dershowitz.

Dershowitz went on to strongly criticize Corey's decision to move forward with the case against Zimmerman. "I think what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection when she gave her presentation and overcharged. This case will not - if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit - this case will result in an acquittal."

"It's irresponsible and unethical in not including material that favors the defendant."

"This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause," Dershowitz concluded. "everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything."

So the guy who defended OJ Simpson and Claus Von Bulow is now defending Zim? Historically, I guess that means two things:

A Hes guilty
B He will get away with it

Pretty sure it just means he understands the legal system regardless of the defendant's guilt or lack there of. Guilty or not, the burden of proof is on the state. Yes this means if you shoot someone in the face and they can't prove you shot them in the face, you don't get in ...


That's why you're the judge and I'm the law...talking guy!
 
2012-04-13 03:42:46 PM

SwingingJohnson: This will be powerful evidence if it can be determined.

I myself have no idea if that was Trayvon's or Zimmerman's voice. Grown men can scream in a high pitch when they are in a panic. If it turns out that it is Trayvon's, Zimmerman is done.

Hopefully they can get samples of Tray's voice to make it conclusive.

From the DISCOVERY NEWS site:

Trayvon Martin 911 Call: How Experts ID Voices (new window)


Even if it was Trayvon screaming, things can still be murky. As has been pointed out here there is evidence that the slide of the gun was being held or manipulated during the struggle. This points toward some sort of struggle over the gun. If Trayvon's prints are on the gun or it can somehow be shown that there was some sort of struggle for the gun then it's a real clusterfark because at that point both men could reasonably fear for their lives if the other one got control of the gun. Martin could have easily been screaming for help as he struggled for the gun.

This whole thing is too big of a mess for a conviction.
 
2012-04-13 03:44:53 PM

Headso: Silly Jesus: The majority of the professors etc. that I have heard comment are on the side of this being a political/publicity stunt of some sort and in agreement that there is not enough evidence for the charges.

based on your comments that would be what you want to read.


Huh? My conclusion is based on reading and listening to a variety of news sources. The majority of the "experts" that I have read or heard are firmly on the side of there not being enough evidence for this charge to stand, regardless of whether Zimmerman was in the wrong or not. It's just not a strong case.
 
2012-04-13 03:45:08 PM

s2s2s2: SwingingJohnson: but may have also lost his bearings as to the location of his father's GF's condo. He did not live there and may have been lost along with being followed in the dark by a stranger.

So it is possible his behavior might have looked suspicious?


More likely it started looking suspicious AFTER he started following the kid.

Just put yourself in Trayvon's shoes that night. You are being followed by a stranger in the dark in an SUV. You have no idea who it is. Then the guy gets out of his vehicle and is following you on foot.

WTF would you do? You don't know who this is and maybe you aren't sure exactly where your Dad's GF's condo is.

This was a perfect storm of a Neighborhood Watch person doing what he should not have done. He hung up his 911 call and followed a "suspicious asshole" on foot. But George felt he could do that because he's packing a LOADED farkING GUN.

The 911 operator told him NOT TO FOLLOW.

The shooting happened a full minute after George said OK and hung up.

Why did he hang up? That was weird. Why hang up with 911 when you are following someone?
 
2012-04-13 03:47:21 PM

Silly Jesus: Here's Harvard law professor, and renowned conservative (sarcasm), Alan Dershowitz calling the charges Irresponsible and Unethical.

Without a doubt, he knows less than the anti-Zimmerman folks in here. : )

"You've seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it," Smerconish asked. "It won't suffice," Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge," Dershowitz said. "There's simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder." (new window)


"After reveiwing the short affadavit for probable cause, I do find that probable cause for the charge as put in the information."
-- Judge Mark E. Herr


Well, so much for the opinion of Mr Dershowitz
 
2012-04-13 03:47:37 PM

Silly Jesus: Headso: Silly Jesus: The majority of the professors etc. that I have heard comment are on the side of this being a political/publicity stunt of some sort and in agreement that there is not enough evidence for the charges.

based on your comments that would be what you want to read.

Huh? My conclusion is based on reading and listening to a variety of news sources. The majority of the "experts" that I have read or heard are firmly on the side of there not being enough evidence for this charge to stand, regardless of whether Zimmerman was in the wrong or not. It's just not a strong case.


oh ok, maybe it is just coincidence that you are on the attack the prosecutor bandwagon all of a sudden. carry on...
 
2012-04-13 03:48:23 PM

SwingingJohnson: s2s2s2: SwingingJohnson: but may have also lost his bearings as to the location of his father's GF's condo. He did not live there and may have been lost along with being followed in the dark by a stranger.

So it is possible his behavior might have looked suspicious?

More likely it started looking suspicious AFTER he started following the kid.

Just put yourself in Trayvon's shoes that night. You are being followed by a stranger in the dark in an SUV. You have no idea who it is. Then the guy gets out of his vehicle and is following you on foot.

WTF would you do? You don't know who this is and maybe you aren't sure exactly where your Dad's GF's condo is.

This was a perfect storm of a Neighborhood Watch person doing what he should not have done. He hung up his 911 call and followed a "suspicious asshole" on foot. But George felt he could do that because he's packing a LOADED farkING GUN.

The 911 operator told him NOT TO FOLLOW.

The shooting happened a full minute after George said OK and hung up.

Why did he hang up? That was weird. Why hang up with 911 when you are following someone?


Well clearly he's guilty then. He did a bunch of perfectly legal stuff and then he hung up a phone.

We don't even need a trial, his guilt is so obvious.
 
2012-04-13 03:50:38 PM
"And that is when you, me and Trayvon will jump out of the Giant Wooden Badger and confront Zimmerman."

"Wait, not just Trayvon?"
 
2012-04-13 03:53:06 PM

SwingingJohnson: s2s2s2: SwingingJohnson: but may have also lost his bearings as to the location of his father's GF's condo. He did not live there and may have been lost along with being followed in the dark by a stranger.

So it is possible his behavior might have looked suspicious?

More likely it started looking suspicious AFTER he started following the kid.

Just put yourself in Trayvon's shoes that night. You are being followed by a stranger in the dark in an SUV. You have no idea who it is. Then the guy gets out of his vehicle and is following you on foot.

WTF would you do? You don't know who this is and maybe you aren't sure exactly where your Dad's GF's condo is.

This was a perfect storm of a Neighborhood Watch person doing what he should not have done. He hung up his 911 call and followed a "suspicious asshole" on foot. But George felt he could do that because he's packing a LOADED farkING GUN.

The 911 operator told him NOT TO FOLLOW.

The shooting happened a full minute after George said OK and hung up.

Why did he hang up? That was weird. Why hang up with 911 when you are following someone?


He hung up because he lost sight of the kid a full 2 minutes ago and had stopped actively following him when the dispatcher said they didn't need him to do that.
 
2012-04-13 03:53:57 PM

Silly Jesus: SwingingJohnson: This will be powerful evidence if it can be determined.

I myself have no idea if that was Trayvon's or Zimmerman's voice. Grown men can scream in a high pitch when they are in a panic. If it turns out that it is Trayvon's, Zimmerman is done.

Hopefully they can get samples of Tray's voice to make it conclusive.

From the DISCOVERY NEWS site:

Trayvon Martin 911 Call: How Experts ID Voices (new window)

Even if it was Trayvon screaming, things can still be murky. As has been pointed out here there is evidence that the slide of the gun was being held or manipulated during the struggle. This points toward some sort of struggle over the gun. If Trayvon's prints are on the gun or it can somehow be shown that there was some sort of struggle for the gun then it's a real clusterfark because at that point both men could reasonably fear for their lives if the other one got control of the gun. Martin could have easily been screaming for help as he struggled for the gun.

This whole thing is too big of a mess for a conviction.


Oh it's already a real clusterfark.

On that we can definitely agree.

But the fark will start to get a little bit unclustered when more definitive evidence comes out and there will be more to come I'm sure.

1. The exact time line of all the phone calls

2. Time and distance measurements of walking, fast pacing, running.

3. Hopefully the 7/11 has survellance of Martin in the store with a time stamp.

4. The time of the 1/2 time of the football game he was supposedly watching when he made his candy run.

_______________________________________________________

But one thing I feel funny about is why did the 911 operator not insist that he remain on the line. They never want anyone to hang up. Especially after the issue of "We don't need you to do that (follow him)" came up. That helped this perfect storm happen that night.
 
2012-04-13 03:56:28 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Silly Jesus: Here's Harvard law professor, and renowned conservative (sarcasm), Alan Dershowitz calling the charges Irresponsible and Unethical.

Without a doubt, he knows less than the anti-Zimmerman folks in here. : )

"You've seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it," Smerconish asked. "It won't suffice," Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge," Dershowitz said. "There's simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder." (new window)

"After reveiwing the short affadavit for probable cause, I do find that probable cause for the charge as put in the information."
-- Judge Mark E. Herr

Well, so much for the opinion of Mr Dershowitz


The Dershowitz interview, was, I believe, conducted after the hearing that you reference. I don't believe that two different things are being equated. I admit that I am not sure, but I don't think that this was the hearing that Dershowitz was referring to.
 
2012-04-13 03:57:54 PM

9beers: SwingingJohnson: From the DISCOVERY NEWS site:

Trayvon Martin 911 Call: How Experts ID Voices (new window)


Voice biometrics has been deemed unreliable by the FBI.

I doubt we'll ever know who the scream was on the 911 tape but we do know for a fact that an eyewitness SAID HE saw Zimmerman screaming for help while being assaulted by Martin.


FTFY

*facepalm*

There you go again.
 
2012-04-13 03:58:52 PM

PoochUMD: SwingingJohnson: s2s2s2: SwingingJohnson: but may have also lost his bearings as to the location of his father's GF's condo. He did not live there and may have been lost along with being followed in the dark by a stranger.

So it is possible his behavior might have looked suspicious?

More likely it started looking suspicious AFTER he started following the kid.

Just put yourself in Trayvon's shoes that night. You are being followed by a stranger in the dark in an SUV. You have no idea who it is. Then the guy gets out of his vehicle and is following you on foot.

WTF would you do? You don't know who this is and maybe you aren't sure exactly where your Dad's GF's condo is.

This was a perfect storm of a Neighborhood Watch person doing what he should not have done. He hung up his 911 call and followed a "suspicious asshole" on foot. But George felt he could do that because he's packing a LOADED farkING GUN.

The 911 operator told him NOT TO FOLLOW.

The shooting happened a full minute after George said OK and hung up.

Why did he hang up? That was weird. Why hang up with 911 when you are following someone?

He hung up because he lost sight of the kid a full 2 minutes ago and had stopped actively following him when the dispatcher said they didn't need him to do that.


THEN WHY THE FARK WAS ZIMMERMAN NOT SITTING IN HIS FARKING SUV STAYING DRY AND WAITING FOR THE COPS TO COME?

Anyway... you nor I know the exact timeline of calls yet so until then, chill.
 
2012-04-13 03:58:59 PM

SwingingJohnson: But the fark will start to get a little bit unclustered when more definitive evidence comes out and there will be more to come I'm sure.

1. The exact time line of all the phone calls

2. Time and distance measurements of walking, fast pacing, running.

3. Hopefully the 7/11 has survellance of Martin in the store with a time stamp.

4. The time of the 1/2 time of the football game he was supposedly watching when he made his candy run.


The times of the phone calls is all we need. What's going to make it easy to build a timeline is that the shot is heard on one of the 911 calls.

Not sure what a 7/11 tape or the basketball game have to add.
 
2012-04-13 03:59:12 PM

SwingingJohnson: But one thing I feel funny about is why did the 911 operator not insist that he remain on the line. They never want anyone to hang up. Especially after the issue of "We don't need you to do that (follow him)" came up. That helped this perfect storm happen that night.


busy bodies are always calling the cops on teenagers, usually they don't kill them.
 
2012-04-13 03:59:29 PM

SwingingJohnson: Just put yourself in Trayvon's shoes that night


There is no way I can do that. Insulting to Tray to suggest I could.

SwingingJohnson: George said OK and hung up


Why are you skipping the minute and a half George remained on the phone?

Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay? Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at? Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted by Mother Jones]
Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You're welcome.

Sure is polite for a Hunter. ;)
 
2012-04-13 04:01:28 PM

tirob: FTFY

*facepalm*

There you go again.


I know, right? There I go using the testimony of a farking eyewitness. Seriously, listen to yourself.
 
2012-04-13 04:01:57 PM
I have it on good authority that silver bikini girl lives near Sanford. That is the real issue here. We should be praying for her safety. Oh yeah, Zimmerman is screwed. And I think in honor if Trayvon Martin, grables daughter should send me a sexy hoody photo set. Eip.
/yeah, I turned a racist troll fest into a bie request.
 
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