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(Forbes)   Ever bought Kobe beef in the US? Congratulations, you've been duped   (forbes.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Kobe beef  
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8379 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Apr 2012 at 7:58 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-13 01:52:23 AM  

Justin Bieber's Acne Medication: [prestosavings.com image 610x273]

hai guys wats going on in this thread?


Your name is "Peaches".
 
2012-04-13 01:53:42 AM  

James!: Is this like how champagne isn't really champagne unless it comes from Champagne?

~
Came here to say this. Over in three. Article was a total piece of ooga booga. "Not real! Not from the correct patch of dirt!. Ooga booga!"

Best thing that ever happened to the Oz wine industry. Went from making Champaign, Claret, Burgundy etc, to labelling wines by their variety... and having to stand on their own two feet... and in no time making a superior product.

Suck eggs, Frenchie!
 
2012-04-13 02:08:07 AM  
TL,DR. Does he answer the question if customers can use it to their financial benefit to accuse a restaurant of false advertising? That'd be sweet if you could go into a restaurant, order the "Kobe" beef, eat it, then, when the check comes, complain to the manager that they're scamming customers. Boom! Free entree.
 
2012-04-13 03:21:06 AM  
I have eaten real Kobe beef in Japan at a Japanese Steak House specializing in it, while in Tokyo during a business trip around 30 years ago. I still remember the experience. I have tried a number of US products claiming to be Kobe Beef and let me assure you, that they were nothing like it. Let me put it to you this way: if you need a knife for a solid piece of meat, it is not Kobe Beef.

And for those of you that worship Trader Joe's, they are selling frozen hamburgers in my area labeled Kobe Beef for double what the average burger costs. Obviously given this article, it is not Kobe Beef - just a good hamburger. Unfortunately Trader Joes, like so many others, is not above lying to their customers and taking them for a ride. They are just a bit more classy about it and have great copywriters for their ads.

My advise is to read the label ingredients, and nutritional tables of any product you intend to put into your mouth before putting down your hard earned money.
 
2012-04-13 03:26:46 AM  

jimw: And for those of you that worship Trader Joe's, they are selling frozen hamburgers in my area labeled Kobe Beef for double what the average burger costs


Per Trader Joe's:

"Our Kobe Beef Burgers are made from 100% American Wagyu cattle - the domestic version of the breed used to produce the Japanese Kobe - that's raised without the use of antibiotics or added hormones. Unlike most conventionally raised beef, these cattle are allowed to mature naturally, and only processed when they're naturally ready. The beef is rich, flavorful and makes a terrific burger."
 
2012-04-13 04:26:50 AM  

Big Ramifications: James!: Is this like how champagne isn't really champagne unless it comes from Champagne?
~
Came here to say this. Over in three. Article was a total piece of ooga booga. "Not real! Not from the correct patch of dirt!. Ooga booga!"

Best thing that ever happened to the Oz wine industry. Went from making Champaign, Claret, Burgundy etc, to labelling wines by their variety... and having to stand on their own two feet... and in no time making a superior product.

Suck eggs, Frenchie!


So much this.

I recently had a very fine cut of Akaushi at a little diner in New Braunfels. Sure, it ain't Kobe; I doubt they massaged the cattle or gave them beer (although that part may have happened, this is Texas), but it was still leagues beyond anything I've had at a steakhouse. Cut it with a fork, too.
 
2012-04-13 05:23:15 AM  

Great Porn Dragon: probably a lot of where actual Kobe beef gets its reputation is in how well the cattle are treated rather than the breed--you could probably get as nummy of beef by feeding Herefords beer and grass and giving them moo-massages and waterbeds before slaughtering them.


One year when I was in high school, I raised an angus bull calf. Right after I got him, a semi-truck loaded with beet pulp overturned on the mountain above our house. I got ten truckloads of sugar beet pulp before CalTrans cleaned it up. I fed that calf almost exclusively on it. That calf grew faster (and fatter) than any calf I've ever seen. The meat was almost too good, as I've never had anything like it, and our neighbors and friends still talk about it 35 years later. Well marbled and sweet. Like eating a meat cake. My brother and I are talking about raising a calf this year. Maybe I'll feed it exclusively worcestershire sauce. Or maybe just not water it and raise beef jerky.
 
2012-04-13 05:56:57 AM  
href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7047265/76189891#c76189891" target="_blank">Harry_Seldon: jimw: And for those of you that worship Trader Joe's, they are selling frozen hamburgers in my area labeled Kobe Beef for double what the average burger costs

Per Trader Joe's:

"Our Kobe Beef Burgers are made from 100% American Wagyu cattle - the domestic version of the breed used to produce the Japanese Kobe - that's raised without the use of antibiotics or added hormones. Unlike most conventionally raised beef, these cattle are allowed to mature naturally, and only processed when they're naturally ready. The beef is rich, flavorful and makes a terrific burger."


So essentially they use the right breed but don't give them the nice massages or feed that would definitely affect the taste.
 
2012-04-13 06:31:50 AM  
This moment of over-zealous nationalistic pride brought to you by Japan. Japan: better than the world at everything including insecurity.
 
2012-04-13 06:42:01 AM  
Can't help but enjoy reading of people getting ripped off by Kobe beef. Idiot fools - separated - money.

/no, you CAN'T get it over here.
 
2012-04-13 07:43:17 AM  

explodingtaco: This is nothing compared to the great Doritos-bag-filled-mostly-with-air scam.


i112.photobucket.com


Some settling may occur during shipment.
 
2012-04-13 08:04:34 AM  
Everybody knows the real good beef comes from Argentina anyway
 
2012-04-13 08:11:13 AM  

CommieTaoist: Anyone who takes their meat seriously would have already known that.


Came for this....


satisfied with my black angus that was raised and slaughtered a half-hours drive north.

MugzyBrown: Everybody knows the real good beef comes from Argentina anyway


That's actually changing. I've got a relative on my wife's side who is spending time in Argentina teaching them the ways of the CAFO: concentrated animal feeding operation. That's right; they're importing our douchebag ways and their beef will be crap soon enough.

/kinda like how Smithfield hams *used* to finish the pigs off on real peanuts... they don't do that isht any more.
 
2012-04-13 08:19:48 AM  
Personally, making burgers out of high grade meat just seems like a waste anyway. I like a decent burger as much as anyone, but meat that 'should' be used for steaks shouldn't be used for hamburgers...ground chuck or ground round are plenty flavorful enough if cooked and prepped properly.

JMHO.
 
2012-04-13 08:50:18 AM  

ihatedumbpeople: Personally, making burgers out of high grade meat just seems like a waste anyway. I like a decent burger as much as anyone, but meat that 'should' be used for steaks shouldn't be used for hamburgers...ground chuck or ground round are plenty flavorful enough if cooked and prepped properly.

JMHO.


The thing is: the large cuts do go to steaks. But then you have trim. Do you just throw that away? Bones go for stock. Trim goes to burger or for stew. You try to use as much of the animal as possible. It's not like you say, "Hey, I have this rib roast, I'll just chop it up and make burger...."

Use it all. Roast the bones a bit before stock. Trim as close as you can, but roast the bones a bit to get more flavor from the meat that is difficult to flense down. Use the marrow. Use it pretty much all.
 
2012-04-13 08:51:17 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: I demand an 8-carat purple diamond ring.


I was always suspicious about that ring and I do believe it was bought by the Laker's organization to help smooth things over. Basically the Laker's management wanted this to go away and not have their marquee player in the news for domestic issues with his wife (divorce, airing dirty laundry, etc).

If you had a lot of money and farked up on your wife, do you buy a white diamond or a purple one.

Think about it. Lakers colors: purple and gold. Colors of the ring: purple and gold.
 
2012-04-13 08:54:13 AM  
Place I use to offers beefalo. Lower fat and calories than regular beef, and still tastes awesome.
 
2012-04-13 09:02:11 AM  
You mean the meat for the sliders down at the local redneck bar wasn't flown from Japan on a G650? I'm shocked!
 
2012-04-13 09:11:04 AM  

LeroyB: Kobe Beef in the U.S. really isn't from Kobe?

Oh great. Next you're going to tell me that Rocky Mountain Oysters really aren't from the Rocky Mountains.


But they're really nads, so there's that.
 
2012-04-13 09:48:24 AM  
Have fun with the US places claiming to serve Kobe beef.

Order some there, then demand the serial number on the beef. If they can't come up with it, walk out and probclaim loudly that they are scamming people.....
 
2012-04-13 09:53:00 AM  

Nightmaretony: Have fun with the US places claiming to serve Kobe beef.

Order some there, then demand the serial number on the beef. If they can't come up with it, walk out and probclaim loudly that they are scamming people.....


I have better things to do with my time. Thanks.
 
2012-04-13 10:00:28 AM  

Gough: I liked the part in TFA about the ten-digit ID number so you know which animal your steak came from.


/His name is Colin....


Some places in the US take an even greater interest in the individual animal that's being served. (new window)
 
2012-04-13 10:02:12 AM  
Whoops
 
2012-04-13 10:12:39 AM  

Nabb1: I pretty much assumed anything in the states labeled "Kobe beef" was not really from Japan, but from similar breeds of cows produced domestically. I tend to stick to grass-fed beef these days, anyway.


Oh dear god, I SERIOUSLY misunderstood the term "Kobe Beef" I mean, I just assumed because it was so expensive....
static8.businessinsider.com
 
2012-04-13 10:55:53 AM  

doglover: James!: Is this like how champagne isn't really champagne unless it comes from Champagne?

Actually, no.

Kobe beef isn't special because of the cattle. Kobe beef is special because of the process used when raising the cows. They get all kinds of massages and special things normal cows do not. They're like a more complicated version of veal.

If you see a cut of Kobe beef, it's so marbled that the meat's actually more of a solid pink than separate red and white veins.


Actually, if you RTFA, you'd see that massage/beer thing is a myth as well.
 
2012-04-13 10:58:11 AM  

hubiestubert: ihatedumbpeople: Personally, making burgers out of high grade meat just seems like a waste anyway. I like a decent burger as much as anyone, but meat that 'should' be used for steaks shouldn't be used for hamburgers...ground chuck or ground round are plenty flavorful enough if cooked and prepped properly.

JMHO.

The thing is: the large cuts do go to steaks. But then you have trim. Do you just throw that away? Bones go for stock. Trim goes to burger or for stew. You try to use as much of the animal as possible. It's not like you say, "Hey, I have this rib roast, I'll just chop it up and make burger...."

Use it all. Roast the bones a bit before stock. Trim as close as you can, but roast the bones a bit to get more flavor from the meat that is difficult to flense down. Use the marrow. Use it pretty much all.


sure...if yer buying a cow. I just buy packs of meat. ;-)

/though I have purchased half cows from the local livestock fair before
//we just dont' eat 'that' much red meat to justify it...
 
2012-04-13 11:10:32 AM  

ihatedumbpeople: sure...if yer buying a cow. I just buy packs of meat. ;-)


I buy a quarter beev... but it has to be processed in a USDA sanctioned slaughterhouse so it's just freezer-ready packs of meat.

/but you can ask the guy for a bag of bones.

Nightmaretony: Have fun with the US places claiming to serve Kobe beef.

Order some there, then demand the serial number on the beef. If they can't come up with it, walk out and probclaim loudly that they are scamming people.....


Ok, THAT is something I learned form this article. I wasn't aware of the serial number... because I've never had Kobe beef.

/never been to Nippon, neither.
 
2012-04-13 11:11:28 AM  

ihatedumbpeople: hubiestubert: ihatedumbpeople: Personally, making burgers out of high grade meat just seems like a waste anyway. I like a decent burger as much as anyone, but meat that 'should' be used for steaks shouldn't be used for hamburgers...ground chuck or ground round are plenty flavorful enough if cooked and prepped properly.

JMHO.

The thing is: the large cuts do go to steaks. But then you have trim. Do you just throw that away? Bones go for stock. Trim goes to burger or for stew. You try to use as much of the animal as possible. It's not like you say, "Hey, I have this rib roast, I'll just chop it up and make burger...."

Use it all. Roast the bones a bit before stock. Trim as close as you can, but roast the bones a bit to get more flavor from the meat that is difficult to flense down. Use the marrow. Use it pretty much all.

sure...if yer buying a cow. I just buy packs of meat. ;-)

/though I have purchased half cows from the local livestock fair before
//we just dont' eat 'that' much red meat to justify it...

You

don't. But when you buy those roasts and steaks, the folks who sell it to you are still left with a lot of scrap. Selling that as burger is easy and accessible to package up too.
 
2012-04-13 11:28:39 AM  

hubiestubert: ihatedumbpeople: hubiestubert: ihatedumbpeople: Personally, making burgers out of high grade meat just seems like a waste anyway. I like a decent burger as much as anyone, but meat that 'should' be used for steaks shouldn't be used for hamburgers...ground chuck or ground round are plenty flavorful enough if cooked and prepped properly.

JMHO.

The thing is: the large cuts do go to steaks. But then you have trim. Do you just throw that away? Bones go for stock. Trim goes to burger or for stew. You try to use as much of the animal as possible. It's not like you say, "Hey, I have this rib roast, I'll just chop it up and make burger...."

Use it all. Roast the bones a bit before stock. Trim as close as you can, but roast the bones a bit to get more flavor from the meat that is difficult to flense down. Use the marrow. Use it pretty much all.

sure...if yer buying a cow. I just buy packs of meat. ;-)

/though I have purchased half cows from the local livestock fair before
//we just dont' eat 'that' much red meat to justify it...

You don't. But when you buy those roasts and steaks, the folks who sell it to you are still left with a lot of scrap. Selling that as burger is easy and accessible to package up too.


At my local farmer's market, which is an actual FARMER's market, not just a glorified produce stand, on of the participants is offering CSA shares for his chickens, and pigs which I'd nver seen before, one of the ranchers with sheep and cows is reportedly interested in doing the same thing. Needless to say I'm extremely tempted, esepcially after tasting the "jowl bacon" he'd fried up for samples. I had no idea that there WERE different kinds of bacon or that some were so much tastier than the stuff you buy in stores
 
2012-04-13 11:30:21 AM  

Nabb1: I pretty much assumed anything in the states labeled "Kobe beef" was not really from Japan, but from similar breeds of cows produced domestically. I tend to stick to grass-fed beef these days, anyway.


yes ... i like how store go out of there way to place "CORN FEED BEEF" on the labels of their meat ... if you know about cows and corn you know what they have to do to cows to make them digest corn ...

COWS ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO EAT CORN!!!
 
2012-04-13 11:32:47 AM  

bruce4bruce: Nabb1: I pretty much assumed anything in the states labeled "Kobe beef" was not really from Japan, but from similar breeds of cows produced domestically. I tend to stick to grass-fed beef these days, anyway.

yes ... i like how store go out of there way to place "CORN FEED BEEF" on the labels of their meat ... if you know about cows and corn you know what they have to do to cows to make them digest corn ...

COWS ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO EAT CORN!!!


To be fair, think about what you have to do to geese to get foie gras...
 
2012-04-13 12:21:41 PM  

explodingtaco: This is nothing compared to the great Doritos-bag-filled-mostly-with-air scam.


The one which prints in clear, large letters exactly how much Dorito is in the bag?

Yeah, it's nothing because this is clear fraud and the Dorito's thing is simply an idiot being incapable of reading a label.
 
2012-04-13 01:11:26 PM  

Magorn: esepcially after tasting the "jowl bacon" he'd fried up for samples. I had no idea that there WERE different kinds of bacon or that some were so much tastier than the stuff you buy in stores


I'm sure you've heard of prosciutto, or maybe pancetta? That's basically bacon, too. The jowl bacon is more commonly called by its Italian name, guanciale. It's wonderful stuff.
 
2012-04-13 01:29:20 PM  

bruce4bruce: Nabb1: I pretty much assumed anything in the states labeled "Kobe beef" was not really from Japan, but from similar breeds of cows produced domestically. I tend to stick to grass-fed beef these days, anyway.

yes ... i like how store go out of there way to place "CORN FEED BEEF" on the labels of their meat ... if you know about cows and corn you know what they have to do to cows to make them digest corn ...

COWS ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO EAT CORN!!!


Right, it's maid for Midwestern girls.
www.popcrunch.com
Corn fed Midwestern girls. Mmmmmmmm
 
2012-04-13 01:32:29 PM  
Something about that article really annoyed me. Maybe because it was all bold or something.

Also, I can imagine the writer being all snotty. You're sitting in a restaurant and order a Pinot Noir from Oregon or something and he'd start talking about how unless it's an '07 or '08 he'd stay away because of the relative humidity in the Willamette Valley for other vintages. Then go on to talk about ideal environmental conditions for Pinot Noirs and why the Napa Valley consistently has better ones. Unless you're talking '10.
 
2012-04-13 01:34:00 PM  

nyseattitude:
Right, it's maid for Midwestern girls.
[www.popcrunch.com image 500x375]
Corn fed Midwestern girls. Mmmmmmmm


Get 'em while they're young, because all that corn + time =

blogs.voanews.com
 
2012-04-13 01:41:43 PM  

Rent Party: nyseattitude:
Right, it's maid for Midwestern girls.
[www.popcrunch.com image 500x375]
Corn fed Midwestern girls. Mmmmmmmm

Get 'em while they're young, because all that corn + time =

[blogs.voanews.com image 640x480]


Sir. I beg your pardon. Not universally the case.

My life (well I'm a man) shall serve as a voice of objection.
 
2012-04-13 01:54:30 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: I feel as violated as a 19-year-old hotel worker.


I came for a reference such as this one... thread over.
 
2012-04-13 02:41:45 PM  

rikkards: So essentially they use the right breed but don't give them the nice massages or feed that would definitely affect the taste.


Nope. They aren't even using the right breed. According to the article, the only recognized breed for Kobe beef is Tajima-gyu. There are lots of other breeds of cattle in Japan. To be "Wagyu," you just have to trace some portion of the cattle's ancestry to some random Japanese breed, and in fact it seems that American wagyu traces it's Japanese ancestry to breeds that are specifically other than Tajima-gyu.

That's 0 for 2.
 
2012-04-13 02:56:02 PM  
you'd think it was some sort of advertising thing..........

Angus = cow with some black fur.
Japanese Kobe = beef with 80% pre-cooked fat content
US Kobe = Mostly Beef.

simple.
 
2012-04-13 05:29:00 PM  
Yay! 15th greenlight.
 
2012-04-13 06:30:01 PM  

skinink: For those of you who thought they were eating Kobe beef, you were really having the equivalent of Greg Oden beef.


The cows were on the DL? Wut?
 
2012-04-13 08:48:28 PM  
Wagyu beef. the folks in the USA think it's interchangeable with Kobe.
 
2012-04-13 09:02:12 PM  

hubiestubert: The thing is, there is already Wagyu being bred in the US.

There is likewise amazing beef bred here already. Yazwinski Farms just down the road does the beef for the Inn, and it is stellar. Simply the cleanest beef I've had the pleasure to work with.

Go local. Find out what your area does best. Western Mass has some amazing beef and lamb. Some of the best asparagus in the world. Fiddleheads in season are fantastic. Not the best corn, but great local mushrooms, and some amazing produce.

Less hype. More local. Find the awesome stuff around you.


Excellent suggestion. Here in MD, we are blessed with an abundance of local farms for eggs, beef, virtually any critter. My GF and I bought a sampler box from a local farm...everything is very tasty. Got tired of the crappy cuts at the chain grocery stores.
 
2012-04-13 09:29:09 PM  

born_yesterday: hubiestubert: The thing is, there is already Wagyu being bred in the US.

There is likewise amazing beef bred here already. Yazwinski Farms just down the road does the beef for the Inn, and it is stellar. Simply the cleanest beef I've had the pleasure to work with.

Go local. Find out what your area does best. Western Mass has some amazing beef and lamb. Some of the best asparagus in the world. Fiddleheads in season are fantastic. Not the best corn, but great local mushrooms, and some amazing produce.

Less hype. More local. Find the awesome stuff around you.

Excellent suggestion. Here in MD, we are blessed with an abundance of local farms for eggs, beef, virtually any critter. My GF and I bought a sampler box from a local farm...everything is very tasty. Got tired of the crappy cuts at the chain grocery stores.


2 words: Higson corn.

Yum.
 
2012-04-14 01:21:09 AM  
Dear fellow Farkers, please entertain this cool story, bro:

I took up up cooking as a hobby about six months or so ago. I've taken great enjoyment in being able to control every aspect of the food I prepare, making sure everything is prepared to the highest standard that I'm capable of producing in my own kitchen. It's actually been quite a rush; I went from a regular diet of Taco Bell to almost completely eating only foods that I prepare myself. It started off as sort of a fun gag - I began by replicating things like Chick-FIl-A chicken (which I ate on a Sunday just to spite the place) and Bonefish's bang-bang shrimp. Before I knew it I was shelling out half my paycheck on cutting boards, mixers, choppers, grills, smokers, knives, cookware, remote thermometers, etc, etc. I caught 'the bug'.

I nowI make a Chicken Tikka Masala that will knock your goddamn socks off; hot as shiat but still very savory and flavorful. Last weekend, in a flash of brilliance (I am suspending modesty for the remainder of this post), I stuffed bell peppers with the aforementioned dish and roasted them over a closed grill which was producing smoke from mesquite wood. My prim, proper next door neighbor apologized in advance for being unladylike before she picked up her plate and literally licked it clean (probably the highest compliment I could receive). I've lovingly marinated pork tenderloin in a homemade mojo marinade for three days (after carefully slitting the meat in select places and stuffing garlic cloves within it), and created the most tender, juicy pork - rivaling the most tender cut of filet steak - which kept my mouth watering after I finished eating it (I ate damn near a pound of it right off the cutting board, never even made it to a plate). I've made Eggs Benedict that replace the English Muffin with - get this - homemade crab cakes. And yes, that's as farking delicious as it sounds.

Now, the point of this story was partly to brag on the Internet about how well I'm eating, but partly to seek advice, as this thread seems to abound with steak lovers. The article (and personal experience) demonstrates that at most restaurants, you frankly aren't going to get the sort of quality they charge for. You want top-quality, you pretty much have to do it yourself. I'm done paying through the nose at 'nice' restaurants for substandard food. (Not to say they're all bad, but let's face it, how often is that restaurant steak actually worth the 25-35 bucks you paid for it)?

I want to age my own steak. I've Googled the process, but there seems to be zero consensus on the exact proper way to go about it. I would like to hear the stories of anyone that's aged their own steak successfully, and how they did it. I would also like recommendations on what sort of cut/brand/cow/whatever you started with. I am on a mission to create the absolute, most perfect steak ever eaten by a man or God. I need to know what the very best hunk of meat to start with is, and I would also like to know how you prepared the aforementioned steak once aged.

I will reward you with my warmest regards.
 
2012-04-14 02:06:43 AM  

Magorn: At my local farmer's market, which is an actual FARMER's market, not just a glorified produce stand, on of the participants is offering CSA shares for his chickens, and pigs which I'd nver seen before, one of the ranchers with sheep and cows is reportedly interested in doing the same thing. Needless to say I'm extremely tempted, esepcially after tasting the "jowl bacon" he'd fried up for samples. I had no idea that there WERE different kinds of bacon or that some were so much tastier than the stuff you buy in stores


Jowl bacon is awesome and win (and I don't just say that because I grew up on the stuff--thought it was "Joe bacon" pretty much until I was 8 or 9...).

Basically, it's bacon made from hog jowls instead of hog sides--similar characteristics of meat, though. Crunchier and meatier in my experience than traditional bacon...
 
2012-04-14 02:26:05 AM  
People take their food way too seriously.

I like the carne asada burrito at my local Mexican hole in the wall more than most steaks I've had, and it's probably grade F cow dick or something. And I'll put steak sauce on a Kobe steak any day because it'll probably taste better.
 
2012-04-14 04:19:35 AM  
What kills me is that this writer makes excellent points, and excoriates the unscrupulous and dishonest "domestic Kobe" producers. And then he says that in part 3 he'll talk about the real villain in the story: the US government, presumably for not being stricter in protecting other countries' brand names.

In other words, it's a call for more intrustion of government into the free market. This in Forbes magazine.

I lol'd.
 
2012-04-14 07:15:12 AM  

TV's Vinnie: In Japan you get to dine on true Kobe Beef.

In the US, the lobbyists are trying to sneak "pink slime" into everything.

[www.wildvlees.com image 223x329]
I wish I could HATE this country to death.


Hah, you "get to" if you're a high powered businessman or other elite.

Their average asshole sarariman dines on maguro sushi and bargain grade hamburgers same as you and me.
 
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