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(New York Magazine)   Prosecutor confirms Zimmerman will be charged in the Trayvon Martin shooting, assuming they can find the guy   (nymag.com ) divider line 2460
    More: News, prosecutors, Florida law  
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14649 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2012 at 3:00 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-12 02:49:29 AM  

Prosthetic Anus: redmid17: Prosthetic Anus: redmid17: Prosthetic Anus: Giltric: Prosthetic Anus: use less partisan sources

The web is full of partisan sources...and fark is full of partisans.

Good luck with that.

Exactly my point. If one wants a chance of being taken seriously, avoiding partisan sources is a good place to start. But by all means, continue arguing over nothing. Drew needs his ad revenue after all.

How about the three times I linked to a local news station that you never responded to?

Actually I did but not directly to you. That'd be the same affiliate that referred to neo-nazis as a civil rights group.

In a story written by a different person....

It's still fox news...


Would you accept HuffPo sources? Breitbart used to work there you know......
 
2012-04-12 02:51:52 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Also, hi, I'm SLITG, and I'm a woman.


You know, I actually considered that when I said "What that guy said", but your handle made it seem safe. I meant "guy" in the gender-neutral form, of course :p
 
2012-04-12 02:53:38 AM  

kosumi: I have not heard the GF said anything about hiding, and I thought I had read up on all the things she said. If you could provide the link, I would appreciate it.


You might be right, I might have assumed that as she only gave out bits and pieces:

ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Crump about the last moments of the teenager's life. Martin had been talking to his girlfriend all the way to the store
"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.


It sounds like he ran around the house, thinking he lost him, and could have been hiding at that point. Zimmerman comes out, somehow he's "cornered", and the altercation ensues.

That said, are you seriously claiming that Trayvon went *inside* some random house to hide,

No, I said it's likely he could be hiding in one of the patios. Each one has a wall sticking out that he could have easily hid behind if Zimmerman walked by.

The only plausible scenario that involves Zimmerman standing still is if Martin stops, turns around, and walks back at Zimmerman from like 100 feet away, in his full view, while both men are the phone.

No. Zimmerman walks by while he is hiding. Zimmerman hangs up on the phone, looks around to see if Martin is around, possibly spots him while he is off to the side. Or Martin comes out while Zimmerman is walking back. Neither involve great distances.

But given the facts we have and especially the big gaps in time

Despite what is mentioned in the media, the police haven't given out any timeline of the calls. I've heard that 2 minutes went by from Zimmermans phone call to the gunshot, and 45 seconds of that would be somebody on the ground screaming. That's about 1 minute for the two dudes to confront, get into a scuffle, and somebody screaming long enough for the first person to get on the phone with the cops.

We also know that the first police on the scene was responding to a call of a suspicious person, and updated just as he approached the housing community that gunshots went off.

That's not a big gap in time.

There isn't enought time for Zimmerman to hang up, run around the entire complex, get in full view of Martin as ran back upwards of the walkway, confront martin, have a scuffle, wind up back up at the first house, then have somebody on the ground screaming. That's a bit far fetched of a supposition to prefer when a much simpler fits the narrative of what we know happened.
 
2012-04-12 02:56:39 AM  

kosumi: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Also, hi, I'm SLITG, and I'm a woman.

You know, I actually considered that when I said "What that guy said", but your handle made it seem safe. I meant "guy" in the gender-neutral form, of course :p


Hey, no worries, I usually don't care and I'm used it anyway. That's why I only break out the gender disclosure + Mr Show clip when I'm feeling sassy. As women are wont to do.
 
2012-04-12 02:57:25 AM  
kosumi:

All that said, i do like somebody challenged me on the map-narrative. I've favorited you as "smart Martin Supporter". This thing is gonna drag out for awhile.

Goodnight mob :)
 
2012-04-12 03:04:13 AM  
ChuDogg

No offense, but your coherence is slipping sporadically throughout your posts. I'm assuming you're tired because you've been at it all day, but I could be wrong, I was once, back in '88

Me, I'm sick. was ready to go to bed and my sinuses wigged out..blech
 
2012-04-12 03:05:40 AM  

omeganuepsilon: ChuDogg

No offense, but your coherence is slipping sporadically throughout your posts. I'm assuming you're tired because you've been at it all day, but I could be wrong, I was once, back in '88

Me, I'm sick. was ready to go to bed and my sinuses wigged out..blech


Its a bit of that and a bit of too many glasses of scotch.
 
2012-04-12 03:09:58 AM  

ChuDogg: omeganuepsilon: ChuDogg

No offense, but your coherence is slipping sporadically throughout your posts. I'm assuming you're tired because you've been at it all day, but I could be wrong, I was once, back in '88

Me, I'm sick. was ready to go to bed and my sinuses wigged out..blech

Its a bit of that and a bit of too many glasses of scotch.


Booze was my second guess, it is Fark after all.

/glad you responded, I felt like an ass for not hitting refresh before I posted and you'd already said g'night
 
2012-04-12 03:13:03 AM  

ChuDogg: I've heard that 2 minutes went by from Zimmermans phone call to the gunshot


For my story to work, Zimmerman's phone conversation would end at about the time he leaves the sidewalk to go down the footpath. The times from that point on seem reasonable.

We aren't going to accomplish much more here, at least not until we start hearing more details at trial. All I can say is that it strains credibility Martin would hide behind a wall as Zimmerman walked past, and that not be mentioned at all by his GF in her account. She said Martin tried to book it to get away, why not that he was cowering behind a patio wall?

Honestly, and I don't mean this to insult you personally, it sounds like some Freeper fantasy about a scary black man emerging out of the darkness, like some kind of malevolent mist. It just doesn't make any sense. Why would Martin run to get away from a skinhead following him for no clear reason, which I think we can agree happened, to deciding to hide and then try to beat him to death with his bare hands, all while conducting a conversation with his girlfriend? It is just totally implausible.
 
2012-04-12 03:16:29 AM  

ChuDogg: All that said, i do like somebody challenged me on the map-narrative. I've favorited you as "smart Martin Supporter". This thing is gonna drag out for awhile.


I am honored. I'm not a Martin supporter though - I just want a proper inquiry and just outcome.
 
2012-04-12 03:24:15 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: SuperNinjaToad: * Most if not all blacks and some whites think Trayvon is an angel and Zimmerman is a racist black hating psychopath criminal who chased and gunned down a sweet child in cold blood.

* Most everyone else believe Zimmerman did follow Martin but lost sight of him but then Martin suddenly appeared out of nowhere in the dark and then got the upper hand in an ensuing physical altercation. Zimmerman then pulled out his gun and fired killing Martin in the process.

Nuance is not your strong suit, is it?

There are plenty of us who don't give a damn about the history of Martin or Zimmerman, but considering we are theoretically a civilized society and that a person is dead a fair investigation and trial-if-necessary should be a given. The former, in this case, was not.

You're correct in that people on either extreme have those views and are pouncing on every damn new random detail or factoid to push whatever agenda or viewpoint they're clinging to already. But I'd like to believe that a majority just want to see the damn truth come out in a fair way.

Unfortunately, that looks pretty damn unlikely considering how the 'investigation' played out before the public caught wind of things.


I actually think this won't end well. Thanks to the media, Zimmerman possibly cannot get a fair trial.
 
2012-04-12 03:29:03 AM  

People_are_Idiots: I actually think this won't end well. Thanks to the media, Zimmerman possibly cannot get a fair trial.


I can hope for the best but you're probably right. I think it could skew either way, actually, but you're right. It's skewed no matter what.
 
2012-04-12 04:42:48 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: I don;t know what all the facts of this specific case are but I do know the FACTS in these United States of America in 2012 and they are these:

* Most if not all blacks and some whites think Trayvon is an angel and Zimmerman is a racist black hating psychopath criminal who chased and gunned down a sweet child in cold blood.

* Most everyone else believe Zimmerman did follow Martin but lost sight of him but then Martin suddenly appeared out of nowhere in the dark and then got the upper hand in an ensuing physical altercation. Zimmerman then pulled out his gun and fired killing Martin in the process.

* Most if not all blacks think OJ is innocent and justice was served.

* Most everyone else believed OJ is guilty and think justice was not served.

True or not, these are the facts of the modern and fractured American society today. that is all.


Your definition of "FACTS" intrigues me. I had no idea the definition could be stretched to include vague "statistics" pulled from someone's ass. Real facts can be backed up with data.

Or to be more Farky about it:


imgs.xkcd.com
imgs.xkcd.com
imgs.xkcd.com
imgs.xkcd.com
imgs.xkcd.com

 
2012-04-12 04:50:43 AM  
And lets not forget, nobody was worried about the amassing of negroes outside the courthouse when it was just a white girl who killed her baby. Yea, I know one happened in Orange County while the other happened in Seminole County but it's still the same metro area. You can basically spit on Sanford while standing in Orlando. They share the same international airport for gawd's sake.

Why does no one seem to be able to see the parallels of injustice when it's only a few miles that separates these communities? They have a problem around there, and if you were a right wing broadcaster you might say they are a bunch of Mickey Mouse motherfarkers.
 
2012-04-12 05:00:45 AM  
Quick question: If I am a white guy, pissed off at the verdict, can I show my solidarity with the community by getting free stuff?
 
2012-04-12 05:11:21 AM  

mc6809e: gameshowhost:

FWIW, considering that the proverbial book has been thrown at Z, it's doubtful that he's got a preponderance-level of substance to begin with. Prosecution could have easily gone w/ negligent homicide -- there has got to be some compelling shiat which we haven't seen yet.

Nope. The prosecution is playing poker with this guy's life.

The 2nd degree charge is a threat. He could get something like 20+years for a 2nd degree conviction with a gun. They want him to plea down to man slaughter and avoid a trial.

They're hoping he'll chicken out and take just take 3 to 5.


Actually, he can get 30 years off of Manslaughter in Florida, take the penalty for the manslaughter, and add the 10-20-Life law in, and boom, 30 years for manslaughter. 3-5 + 25-life for shooting someone with a gun.
 
2012-04-12 05:11:41 AM  

Yogimus: Quick question: If I am a white guy, pissed off at the verdict, can I show my solidarity with the community by getting free stuff?


No. White folks only join in on riots when something important happens, like their sports teams wins a championship of some kind.
 
2012-04-12 05:13:04 AM  

ravenlore: yeah...i'm not seeing a band-aid on his nose. I mean, i know we can't expect HD quality, but i'm also not seeing blood, bruising or obvious facial damage.

When were these photos taken relative to the shooting? within an hour? two hours? two days?


34 minutes after police arrived on scene from what I've heard.
 
2012-04-12 05:14:22 AM  

Yogimus: Quick question: If I am a white guy, pissed off at the verdict, can I show my solidarity with the community by getting free stuff?


Those inbred hillbillies sisters's you been farking are not "the community."
 
2012-04-12 05:23:34 AM  

beta_plus: bulldg4life: Giltric: Cause getting shot is not like it is in the movies. Sometimes its a neat little hole with some blood around it and the blood can easily be absorbed by clothing worn by the victim.

So, while struggling (Martin's heart rate is probably elevated), Zimmerman is able to pull out a concealed weapon. He is then able to get it in between himself and Martin while Martin is smashing his head against the sidewalk. He is able to fire in to Martin's chest. Then, he is able to get Martin off of him to where Martin's body is face down with his hands underneath him. And, judging from pictures in this thread, not a drop of blood is on Zimmerman.

Hell, there doesn't even seem to be blood from his nose or head wound, either.

That's probably because hours before the paramedics cleaned it off him


The police station video was taken less than an hour after they arrived on scene. I've heard as short as 34 minutes. Yet there are no bandages on a scalp wound, those things tend to bleed like a biatch.
 
2012-04-12 06:36:34 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: tirob: themeaningoflifeisnot: bugontherug: 2) the key words being "17 year-old." Under Florida law, that makes Trayvon a child.

"17 year-old" does not make Martin a "child" under Florida law.

I think it would be relevant if the issue came up of whether Martin could have reasonably believed that he was in danger from Zimmerman before the confrontation occurred. Around here (Pennsylvania), an adult who gets caught following an unaccompanied minor around after dark, on the highway, might find himself charged with disorderly conduct. Zimmerman had called the cops, it is true, but there is no evidence that Martin knew that, and Martin could have reasonably believed that Zimmerman was following him in order to commit a crime.

Martin is lanky 6' 3" football player and Zimmerman is older, fatter and probably slower. If Martin genuinely believe that Zimmerman was following him to commit a crime he could've easily outrun him and go home (only 200 yards away) and call the cops. Heck he could've call the cops while moving away!.. Instead he chose to turn back around and mounted a surprise confrontation with Zimmerman. (phone call to his girlfriend confirms that)
Sane people don;t go confronting someone whom they think will hurt them when there is a significant distance between you and him and when you think you're probably much faster than the person following you.


Martin could have done what you say, true, but he had no legal obligation to do so under the Stand Your Ground law.

Martin is no longer a football player, BTW.
 
2012-04-12 06:50:45 AM  

ChuDogg: gimmegimme: Really? The "police" he called told him to fark off. He continued his completely unauthorized stalking pursuit stalking.

Yeah about that:

If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be
considered in this investigation?

Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman "are you
following him". Zimmerman replied, "yes". The call taker stated "you don't need to do
that". The call taker's suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow. Zimmerman's statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by
Trayvon.

Link (new window)


And Zimmerman's response to the dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" was "OK." We could argue from now until doomsday about what Zimmerman meant by "OK," but one interpretation that is certainly possible--and in my opinion likely--is that Zimmerman meant to inform the dispatcher that he would not be chasing after Martin.

If this is what Zimmerman meant, or even if this is what the dispatcher could have reasonably believed that Zimmerman meant, Zimmerman misled the dispatcher as to his intentions. This is not a good thing to have done if a few seconds after you end your 911 call a confrontation develops between you and the person you have indicated that you would not be chasing in which you wind up shooting that person to death.
 
2012-04-12 07:04:14 AM  

gimmegimme: Here's what I don't understand: why was it okay for Zimmerman (the guy with the gun) to stand his ground, but it wasn't okay for Martin (the guy with the Skittles) to stand his ground


Who said it wasn't okay for Martin to stand his ground?


StreetlightInTheGhetto: There are plenty of us who don't give a damn about the history of Martin or Zimmerman, but considering we are theoretically a civilized society and that a person is dead a fair investigation and trial-if-necessary should be a given. The former, in this case, was not.


How was an investigation not perfromed? They interviewed witnesses, played back tapes to trayvon's father, took Zimmerman to the station, etc.
 
2012-04-12 07:20:00 AM  

tirob: And Zimmerman's response to the dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" was "OK." We could argue from now until doomsday about what Zimmerman meant by "OK," but one interpretation that is certainly possible--and in my opinion likely--is that Zimmerman meant to inform the dispatcher that he would not be chasing after Martin.

If this is what Zimmerman meant, or even if this is what the dispatcher could have reasonably believed that Zimmerman meant, Zimmerman misled the dispatcher as to his intentions. This is not a good thing to have done if a few seconds after you end your 911 call a confrontation develops between you and the person you have indicated that you would not be chasing in which you wind up shooting that person to death


According to zimmerman, after he said "ok" he did stop chasing Trayvon.

Given the location of the confrontation I don't really have a lot of confidence. Given the location of the confrontation I also don't really have a lot of confidence that Trayvon didn;t walk back to confront him.
 
2012-04-12 07:46:51 AM  

liam76: tirob: And Zimmerman's response to the dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" was "OK." We could argue from now until doomsday about what Zimmerman meant by "OK," but one interpretation that is certainly possible--and in my opinion likely--is that Zimmerman meant to inform the dispatcher that he would not be chasing after Martin.

If this is what Zimmerman meant, or even if this is what the dispatcher could have reasonably believed that Zimmerman meant, Zimmerman misled the dispatcher as to his intentions. This is not a good thing to have done if a few seconds after you end your 911 call a confrontation develops between you and the person you have indicated that you would not be chasing in which you wind up shooting that person to death

According to zimmerman, after he said "ok" he did stop chasing Trayvon.

Given the location of the confrontation I don't really have a lot of confidence. Given the location of the confrontation I also don't really have a lot of confidence that Trayvon didn;t walk back to confront him.


He did? When? Nothing Zimmerman said that evening has been made public just yet, except for the 911 transcript.

I have no idea whether your reconstruction is right or wrong. It's up to the judge at the preliminary hearing to decide that, and, if it comes to that, a trier of fact at a trial.
 
2012-04-12 07:47:02 AM  

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: omeganuepsilon: bugontherug: But he started the whole confrontation.

Only sith deal in absolutes.

IF GZ was simply keeping tabs on TM, following at a distance, and TM noticed and decided to make a stand, TM started the confrontation, his poorly informed decision.

We don't have any evidence, for either case.

At a hundred any given times, the decisions of multiple people could have changed the night, but the few pivotal moments, we the people have no facts.

Even the Special Prosecutor and TM's family dwell on this, if there is to be a prosecution, it will be based on the facts.

Why can't the lynch mob bow to the family of the deceased?

The law gives a man the right to stand his ground, doesn't it? Why are you blaming the victim?

Stand your ground doesn't mean "bash his head in".


stand your ground means you are justified in using whatever force necessary to save your own life. Zimmerman could have simply not gotten out of the truck to follow Martin. It's "stand your ground" not "move your ground". No Zimmerman assumed the role of an armed vigilante ,took the law into his own hands and made himself Trayvon's judge ,jury and executioner.
 
2012-04-12 07:47:13 AM  
The mother dresses in the most tacky and horrible rainbow puke clothing I have ever seen.
 
2012-04-12 07:55:09 AM  

tirob: liam76: tirob: And Zimmerman's response to the dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" was "OK." We could argue from now until doomsday about what Zimmerman meant by "OK," but one interpretation that is certainly possible--and in my opinion likely--is that Zimmerman meant to inform the dispatcher that he would not be chasing after Martin.

If this is what Zimmerman meant, or even if this is what the dispatcher could have reasonably believed that Zimmerman meant, Zimmerman misled the dispatcher as to his intentions. This is not a good thing to have done if a few seconds after you end your 911 call a confrontation develops between you and the person you have indicated that you would not be chasing in which you wind up shooting that person to death

According to zimmerman, after he said "ok" he did stop chasing Trayvon.

Given the location of the confrontation I don't really have a lot of confidence. Given the location of the confrontation I also don't really have a lot of confidence that Trayvon didn;t walk back to confront him.

He did? When? Nothing Zimmerman said that evening has been made public just yet, except for the 911 transcript.


There are numerous articles that quote the police about what he said to them, there is also his father recounting his side.

tirob: I have no idea whether your reconstruction is right or wrong. It's up to the judge at the preliminary hearing to decide that, and, if it comes to that, a trier of fact at a trial


I have no idea whether your reconstruction of the phone call is right or wrong. It's up to the judge at the preliminary hearing to decide that, and, if it comes to that, a trier of fact at a trial.
 
2012-04-12 08:03:49 AM  
ChuDogg:Zimmerman's statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.


That's at odds with your graphic, where it took him 25 seconds to walk from his truck to the altercation point, but was there for 1:27, allegedly, before he was attacked. The call started at about 7pm. Martin was dead about 10 minutes after the call ended. Just how long was it going to take him to mosey back to his truck?
 
2012-04-12 08:04:47 AM  
I wonder what will happen when the judge tosses this out?
 
2012-04-12 08:10:08 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: I don;t know what all the facts of this specific case are but I do know the FACTS in these United States of America in 2012 and they are these:

* Most if not all blacks and some whites think Trayvon is an angel and Zimmerman is a racist black hating psychopath criminal who chased and gunned down a sweet child in cold blood.

* Most everyone else believe Zimmerman did follow Martin but lost sight of him but then Martin suddenly appeared out of nowhere in the dark and then got the upper hand in an ensuing physical altercation. Zimmerman then pulled out his gun and fired killing Martin in the process.

* Most if not all blacks think OJ is innocent and justice was served.

* Most everyone else believed OJ is guilty and think justice was not served.

True or not, these are the facts of the modern and fractured American society today. that is all.


True or not. Priceless.
 
2012-04-12 08:14:38 AM  

Molavian: I wonder what will happen when the judge tosses this out?


Nothing, during the press conference, Sharpton and all of the other AW's, claimed that "justice has been served". When Zimmerman is acquitted, they'll be the voice of reason and the angry mob will stay home.

Just kidding, they gonna riot their assess off and get them that big screen TV.
 
2012-04-12 08:15:35 AM  

liam76: tirob: liam76: tirob: And Zimmerman's response to the dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" was "OK." We could argue from now until doomsday about what Zimmerman meant by "OK," but one interpretation that is certainly possible--and in my opinion likely--is that Zimmerman meant to inform the dispatcher that he would not be chasing after Martin.

If this is what Zimmerman meant, or even if this is what the dispatcher could have reasonably believed that Zimmerman meant, Zimmerman misled the dispatcher as to his intentions. This is not a good thing to have done if a few seconds after you end your 911 call a confrontation develops between you and the person you have indicated that you would not be chasing in which you wind up shooting that person to death

According to zimmerman, after he said "ok" he did stop chasing Trayvon.

Given the location of the confrontation I don't really have a lot of confidence. Given the location of the confrontation I also don't really have a lot of confidence that Trayvon didn;t walk back to confront him.

He did? When? Nothing Zimmerman said that evening has been made public just yet, except for the 911 transcript.

There are numerous articles that quote the police about what he said to them, there is also his father recounting his side.


All two layer or three layer hearsay; furthermore, we haven't heard from the dispatcher himself yet.

liam76: tirob: liam76: I have no idea whether your reconstruction of the phone call is right or wrong. It's up to the judge at the preliminary hearing to decide that, and, if it comes to that, a trier of fact at a trial.


Whether my *interpretation* of the 911 call is right or wrong is up to the various triers of fact, it is true, but the 911 call itself is available to the public and needs no "reconstruction."
 
2012-04-12 08:17:57 AM  

Taikoluigi: Does this mean we'll quit seeing this crap in the news now?

Or will it be another farking month or so?


Of course. Just as it was with OJ, the media completely lost interest as soon as he was arrested. So shall it be in this case. I'm almost positive!...
 
2012-04-12 08:24:53 AM  

tirob: All two layer or three layer hearsay; furthermore, we haven't heard from the dispatcher himself yet


True, but it is the info we have on hand.

Hearing from the dispatcher has absolutely no bearing as we have what zimmerman heard, and that is all that mattered from the dispatcher.


tirob: Whether my *interpretation* of the 911 call is right or wrong is up to the various triers of fact, it is true, but the 911 call itself is available to the public and needs no "reconstruction"


If it needs no "reconstruction" then why do we need to hear the testimony of the dispatcher?

The point is you are speculating based on the info you have, so am I.
 
2012-04-12 08:26:31 AM  

Molavian: I wonder what will happen when the judge tosses this out?


Good question. The judge may do that.
 
2012-04-12 08:36:27 AM  

liam76: If it needs no "reconstruction" then why do we need to hear the testimony of the dispatcher?

The point is you are speculating based on the info you have, so am I.


Yes we are both speculating but I think that the dispatcher's interpretation of what Zimmerman said may be a factor in determining the all-important issue of Zimmerman's credibility. If Zimmerman said "A" but the dispatcher understood "B," and if it can be shown that Zimmerman knew that the dispatcher understood "B" but failed to correct him, Zimmerman would have arguably been trying to fake the dispatcher out.

There have been several times here when I have written "A" and you have understood "B," or vice versa; this kind of thing happens all the time when people try to communicate. It remains to be seen whether the exchange between Zimmerman and the dispatcher was poor communication or something else, and whether, if it was something else, it affects Zimmerman's credibility.
 
2012-04-12 08:37:14 AM  

Molavian: I wonder what will happen when the judge tosses this out?


That probably wont happen.

The problem is that Zimmerman isn't white, he's Hispanic. Sharpton was able to get the drop on Zim's apparently incompetent legal team (who didn't expect the race card) while the media ate popcorn and watched it all go up in flames.

Now the justice system has caved to political pressure and the prosecutor is reaching for the brass ring, murder 2, in the hopes that they don't have to prove anything if Zimmerman pleas out.

If Zim fights a protracted legal battle, or surrenders to a lesser charge, there is time for cooler heads to prevail. Sharpton and his fellow black apologists will be distracted by the elections and the media will only give the outcome passing coverage.

If the Judge tosses the whole thing out while the cameras are still focused on him, its going to be pandemonium.
 
2012-04-12 08:37:29 AM  
Some of yu people are way too invested in this case.
 
2012-04-12 08:46:23 AM  

tirob: Yes we are both speculating but I think that the dispatcher's interpretation of what Zimmerman said may be a factor in determining the all-important issue of Zimmerman's credibility. If Zimmerman said "A" but the dispatcher understood "B," and if it can be shown that Zimmerman knew that the dispatcher understood "B" but failed to correct him, Zimmerman would have arguably been trying to fake the dispatcher out.

There have been several times here when I have written "A" and you have understood "B," or vice versa; this kind of thing happens all the time when people try to communicate. It remains to be seen whether the exchange between Zimmerman and the dispatcher was poor communication or something else, and whether, if it was something else, it affects Zimmerman's credibility



I disagree it is going to be next to impossible to prove what zimmerman thought the dispatcher interpreted his "ok" to be. With a half decnet lawyer it will be completely impossible. The dispatcher's testimony isn't really going to have much weight when it comes to trying to prove what Zimmerman thought.

What can be proven to affect his testimony is if he didn't stop when he said he did to the dispatcher. You can't get "hard proof" of this, but if someoen went out and re-created that phone call (getting out of atruck, running, etc) and seeing if where he ended up made sense. I am guessing "no" as he has also said he was still out of a truck because he was lookingf or a street sign.
 
2012-04-12 08:48:19 AM  
If the trial reveals Martin was acting like a thug and Zimmerman was justified, I'm sure the black community will apologize for getting worked up over this and will look inward toward teaching kids to stop acting like gangsters.

/no two things in the above sentence will ever happen.
 
2012-04-12 08:48:56 AM  

SharkTrager: Some of yu people are way too invested in this case.


What do you mean "yu people"?
 
2012-04-12 08:50:23 AM  

attention span of a retarded fruit fly: You mean that when you follow someone and shoot and kill them you CANT call self defense?

really?


You mean if a teen staggers down the street with a hood over his face, in the rain, peeking in windows, you follow him, he jumps you and you shoot him?
 
2012-04-12 08:53:13 AM  

GAT_00: WhoIsWillo: Oh, Zimmerman, where you gonna run to? Oh Zimmerman, where you gonna run to?

This would work better if he hadn't already run the fark away.


He totally ran away because he is guilty. Totally not because a bunch of subhuman blacks are trying to find him and kill him.

Can we arrest all the black panthers now too?
 
2012-04-12 08:53:45 AM  

PlatinumDragon: lucksi: Aaaaand why can't he be charged with first degree murder? I thought you'd charge a guy with everything and then some and see what sticks...

The article was clear -- you can't charge with 1st-degree in Florida without empaneling a grand jury. Everything else can be prosecutor's discretion.

Since we're talking a spontaneous confrontation, I don't think 1st degree could be argued. 2nd degree, though... yeah, they could try for it.

Now here's one for the GEDs in law: given the various claimed circumstances, is there any combination of events where "stand your ground" wouldn't at least equally apply to any actions Martin could have potentially taken during the confrontation? Random non-cop guy following him, non-cop guy pulled a gun at some point, and from some of the arguments the person claiming self-defence can actually be the initial aggressor under the law - so if Zimmerman's act was "justified", why weren't Martin's possible actions equally justified?

/not a lawyer
//except on fark


So why don't they enpanel a grand jury then? Is it, like, totally too much work for just some dead black kid?

/not familiar with what you call a justice system over there
 
2012-04-12 08:56:02 AM  

Hypothetical Imperative: So much for not being a flight risk, eh?

Honestly I'll wait and see before I call that one but he doesn't seem too anxious to make himself..um, available.


Besides calling the prosecution, right? Or posting publicly on his web site, right? You know the government knows exactly where he is, right?

You can't possibly be this stupid, troll.

Flight risk =/= protective custody, fleeing for his life, etc.
 
2012-04-12 09:01:02 AM  

liam76:
I disagree it is going to be next to impossible to prove what zimmerman thought the dispatcher interpreted his "ok" to be. With a half decnet lawyer it will be completely impossible.


We'll see. Zimmerman is going to need a good lawyer from here on out, I'll concede that much.
 
2012-04-12 09:19:53 AM  

kosumi: I don't claim to know what happened.


Except when you did. You discount common sense posts by Chu, which take more into account than you do, and stick with the proven false narrative. If this were were a climate thread, you'd be a denier.
 
2012-04-12 09:20:15 AM  
Has anyone bothered to check with the evidence room at the Miami Metro Police Department to see if anyone ever claimed the women's jewelry that Trayvon Martin had in his possession?

The women's jewelry he was "holding for a friend."

The true owner of the women's jewelry that was taken off of Trayvon Martin would likely have gone to the police to claim it.

With all the millions of dollars being spent on media coverage and lawyers, you'd think someone could verify this simple piece of evidence of Martin's propensity toward thievery.
 
2012-04-12 09:20:36 AM  
Getting that whole "I missed that day" feel.

A Peruvian Dwight Schrute murderer took it to 11. A Florida law took it even further. Prosecutors sat on their ass. The special (ahem) prosecutor spun it as justice in its highest form. All that I get.

How does race fit into this? Please discuss.
 
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