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(New York Magazine)   Prosecutor confirms Zimmerman will be charged in the Trayvon Martin shooting, assuming they can find the guy   (nymag.com) divider line 2461
    More: News, prosecutors, Florida law  
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14628 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2012 at 3:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-11 04:35:36 PM

redmid17: Geotpf: Ok, ignore the "chase after". There still has to be a reasonable belief that Trayvon was about to blah blah blah. In your instances, the attacked person committed at least some sort of crime before the attack. Trayvon did nothing but walk.

If that's not the case, then legally anybody can pick a fight with anybody for any reason whatsoever and then legally shoot them after it got more violent, which means that outright murder is legal in the state of Florida.

Zimmerman said that he was basically sucker punched by Martin and Martin was slamming his head on the sidewalk. He had some wounds treated at the scene. It's on the prosecutor to prove that his testimony isn't true. That is going to be extremely difficult.


Ok, true. If the first punch was thrown by Trayvon, then it was probably a legal shoot, and the prosecution has to prove that that wasn't the case to get a conviction. But that's a question for a jury; this won't be dismissed by the judge.

This does have a Rodney King riot potential here if that ends up being the result (all white or mostly white jury acquits based on reasonable doubt).
 
2012-04-11 04:35:45 PM
I really don't understand all the hoopla.

I mean looking at the situation objectively all we have is the following:

-Armed neighborhood watch man
-Unarmed teenager
-??????
-Teenager ends up dead from watch man shooting him

Take out all the semantics and personal views and basically all you have is the above, but as you can see public opinion wants to fill in the "??????" with their view of what went down and who did what and who deserves to be treated a certain way.

But the bottom line is that someone is dead, remember that.
 
2012-04-11 04:35:57 PM

TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.


Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.
 
2012-04-11 04:36:17 PM
wait a sec... we're relying on a source close to the prosecutors office's sister's neice's cousin?

gimmie a break.

This one said their sources were told Zimmerman will not be charged. (new window)
 
2012-04-11 04:37:04 PM

blackminded: Real quick though: Any Farkers want to make a recommendation on a Sig Sauer P229 chambered for .357SIG as a concealed carry weapon?

[img3.findthebest.com image 633x348]

/I'll check back later


Skip the 357 sig. Ammo is rare and tooooo goddamn expensive. I went out and bought an FN 5.7 to replace my Glock 32, since the FN ammo was half the price of any 357 I was lucky enough to find.
 
2012-04-11 04:37:24 PM

P-Money All $tar: eraser8: symtronic: Thats great! Its still not a recent photo of the boy.... this is though:

Here's another recent photo:

[i39.tinypic.com image 540x591]

Why didn't you choose to use that one?

More Recent, than ANY of yours...

[www.thegrio.com image 400x299]

lower left hand corner

am I doin' it rite?


Dar he.

/am I doin' rite?
 
2012-04-11 04:37:40 PM

Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.

Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.


His family is basically all-powerful in Florida. His grandfather was the Governor of the state twice and fought against desegregation. Several of his cousins have been state senators, and one of his uncles was a U.S. Senator for 18 years.
 
2012-04-11 04:37:50 PM

vegasj: wait a sec... we're relying on a source close to the prosecutors office's sister's neice's cousin?

gimmie a break.

This one said their sources were told Zimmerman will not be charged. (new window)


Why start reporting facts now?
 
2012-04-11 04:38:50 PM

NightOwl2255: 9beers: No, he deserved to get shot for violently assaulting somebody.

And of course you were there so you know for a fact, beyond all doubt, that Martin violently attacked Zimmerman. Or did a witness see Martin attack Zimmerman? Or was there video of Martin attacking Zimmerman. Since you claim that Martin deserved to die, not that if he did attack Zimmerman he deserved to die, but just flat out deserved to die you must know it for a fact. Right?


He's black and wears a hoodie right? That means he just assaults people left and right.

You know how them people are.
 
2012-04-11 04:39:04 PM

All_Farked_Up: 1. Zimmerman found Not Guilty
2. Riots
3. Zimmerman tried again I found Guilty

One of the things I learned from the Rodney King trial is that the feds can toss double jeopardy aside on a whim.

//The other is 'Stay in your car'


The Supremes have said (incorrectly, in my mind, but the Supremes get to have the final decision on these things) that seperate state and Federal trials do not constitute double jeopardy. Blame them.

But, yeah, that is a fairly likely outcome at this point. IE, Rodney King part Deux.
 
2012-04-11 04:39:26 PM

Doink_Boink: spiderpaz: Silly Jesus: It'll be manslaughter.

Hung jury.

Yep. There's not enough evidence to dispel reasonable doubt on his defense. That's why there weren't charges in the first place. The onus of proof is on the prosecution. But they're going to have to hold a trial anyway because there will be riots otherwise now that the media has stirred up a hornets nest.

You may not like our legal system, but you'll appreciate it if you're ever accused of a crime you didn't commit.


Unless the jury ignores or is too stupid to comprehend what "reasonable doubt" means, and that's quite possible, I don't see how anyone could convict him. There appears to be no evidence that what he said happened did in fact not happen, let alone evidence saying he killed the kid due to any reason other than fearing for his well being.

I honestly think riots might not have happened had the feds come in and said they found nothing to charge him with. However, if it's a hung jury I can see riots, he's already been convicted and hung here in DC. Hell, I've been hearing people giddy over their belief he'll be "frying in the electric chair." Go ahead, try and talk some reason and logic about "reasonable doubt" to them. I've served on criminal juries, I've had to deal with people like that who waste everyone's time because they're too stupid to use their brains instead of the bias when deciding their vote. Hell, the last jury I was on there were four ghetto trash with us who held up casting their vote for two hours just because they wanted the courthouse to buy us lunch one more day. This ain't ending pretty.


Does anyoneknow the standard for guilt in this type of affirmative defense case?

Generally, affirmative defense cases shift the burden of proof onto the defendant. The defense has to prove the defendant was justified in behaving in a way that would otherwise be criminal.

If I remember correctly, the SYG law amends the necessary requirements. Does anyone know what this entails (with citation)?
 
2012-04-11 04:39:34 PM

Guairdean: jfivealive: Guairdean: jfivealive: Him starting the fight is subjective, we don't know how started the fight. The stand your ground defense is applicable still.

No, he left the safety of his SUV and approached Trayvon. He placed himself in danger. Had Trayvon approached the SUV, then Zimmerman's actions would have been justified. Zimmerman became the aggressor when he approached Trayvon. At that point, Trayvon would have been justified in killing Zimmerman.

Approaching someone is not illegal

Approaching someone in a menacing manner is.


Oh for chrissakes....
 
2012-04-11 04:39:34 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Mrtraveler01: Mike Chewbacca: Mrtraveler01: eraser8: symtronic: Thats great! Its still not a recent photo of the boy.... this is though:

Here's another recent photo:

[i39.tinypic.com image 540x591]

Why didn't you choose to use that one?

Schools with outdoor hallways look weird to me.

That's what I grew up with. School with INDOOR hallways seem weird to me.

What do you do if it rains though?

We huddle under the overhangs, up against the wall. Yes, we made that joke a lot. Although, we only get like 10 days of rain in San Diego anyway. And back to the picture of Trayvon Martin flipping off the camera, I have a picture of a high school buddy sitting up against the wall under the overhang on a rainy day flipping me off.


Funny how everything ties together huh?

Anyways I live in the Midwest so having outside hallways would mean we're slipping on ice going from History to Math class while freezing our ass off in sub-zero temperatures.

/Wonders why schools were designed with outdoor hallways in the first place
//Has no pictures of people flipping him off
 
2012-04-11 04:39:50 PM

TravisBickle62: Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.

Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.

His family is basically all-powerful in Florida. His grandfather was the Governor of the state twice and fought against desegregation. Several of his cousins have been state senators, and one of his uncles was a U.S. Senator for 18 years.


And yet with all his connections, he's a failed police cadet that ended up working security at house parties.
 
2012-04-11 04:40:12 PM

gearsprocket: I hope the blacks riot. Whites are forgetting about who they are dealing with and need to be reminded.


Thank you for your input. The Black Panthers will contact you shortly. Hate Honky
 
2012-04-11 04:40:17 PM

vegasj: Mrtraveler01: vegasj: mjohnson71: Fox News' current graphic:
[a57.foxnews.com image 640x242]

The original of Trayvon Martin:
[blog.chron.com image 600x375]

uhm, actually, your original is a shop of Fox's photo. It was lightened and highlighted by CNN or NBC

Proof?

Well, for one... farking look at it. That's the worst photoshop I've ever seen. It has clearly been lightened and softened.

But since you insist...

one (new window)

two (new window)

three (new window)


Are you saying someone took the Miami Herald pic, widened it and photoshopped in Martin's shoulders, the ceiling and lighting fixtures?

Or that neither is the original?

I guess you can tell by the pixels.

Or did I miss the HMS Sarcasm?
 
2012-04-11 04:40:20 PM

9beers: he deserved to get shot for violently assaulting somebody


So you know the details of the two week investigation that was conducted? Are you a wizard?
 
2012-04-11 04:40:29 PM

TravisBickle62: Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.

Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.

His family is basically all-powerful in Florida. His grandfather was the Governor of the state twice and fought against desegregation. Several of his cousins have been state senators, and one of his uncles was a U.S. Senator for 18 years.


wut
 
2012-04-11 04:41:06 PM

s2s2s2: Why start reporting facts now?


I like facts. Facts are racist didn't ya know?
 
2012-04-11 04:41:10 PM

redmid17: Geotpf: Ok, ignore the "chase after". There still has to be a reasonable belief that Trayvon was about to blah blah blah. In your instances, the attacked person committed at least some sort of crime before the attack. Trayvon did nothing but walk.

If that's not the case, then legally anybody can pick a fight with anybody for any reason whatsoever and then legally shoot them after it got more violent, which means that outright murder is legal in the state of Florida.

Zimmerman said that he was basically sucker punched by Martin and Martin was slamming his head on the sidewalk. He had some wounds treated at the scene. It's on the prosecutor to prove that his testimony isn't true. That is going to be extremely difficult.


Does head trauma usually result if someone has their head slammed on the sidewalk? What does that look like? Do such wounds usually require hospitalization? Were McFatty's wounds consistent with someone that had just had their head slammed on the sidewalk? No? Was he hospitalized? Can we call expert witnesses to validate that, and then call the paramedics that treated and then released McFattly? We can?

That's going to be pretty easy to prove.
 
2012-04-11 04:41:15 PM

mojuba: Dude if you are intimidated by him, I feel sad for you, even with his grills he looks like a kid trying to be hard, but still looks like a kid


Its all a matter of perspective.

dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-04-11 04:41:38 PM

TravisBickle62: His grandfather was the Governor of the state twice and fought against desegregation.


Oh my!...that's awkward.
 
2012-04-11 04:42:16 PM
One of the other reasons Infowars was told that "race" may fall by the wayside in the Zimmerman case is because of an alleged soon-to-be-released report dating back to one year ago, detailing George Zimmerman's pivotal role in helping to achieve justice for an older homeless black man in Sanford who was beaten up by a local policeman's son, followed by a cover-up of the incident. Zimmerman went to multiple black churches in the area to seek help for the victim, and that Zimmerman's efforts culminated in the eventual arrest of the assailant

Oh well, the race card already worked. No need for a revisit.
 
2012-04-11 04:42:27 PM

9beers: I have an eyewitness.


You have a person saying they saw Martin winning a fight, not that Martin started it. Oh, my bad, Martin must have, he's a violent thug, right? Unlike peace loving Zimmerman.
 
2012-04-11 04:42:31 PM

Mrtraveler01: Mike Chewbacca: Mrtraveler01: Mike Chewbacca: Mrtraveler01: eraser8: symtronic: Thats great! Its still not a recent photo of the boy.... this is though:

Here's another recent photo:

[i39.tinypic.com image 540x591]

Why didn't you choose to use that one?

Schools with outdoor hallways look weird to me.

That's what I grew up with. School with INDOOR hallways seem weird to me.

What do you do if it rains though?

We huddle under the overhangs, up against the wall. Yes, we made that joke a lot. Although, we only get like 10 days of rain in San Diego anyway. And back to the picture of Trayvon Martin flipping off the camera, I have a picture of a high school buddy sitting up against the wall under the overhang on a rainy day flipping me off.

Funny how everything ties together huh?

Anyways I live in the Midwest so having outside hallways would mean we're slipping on ice going from History to Math class while freezing our ass off in sub-zero temperatures.

/Wonders why schools were designed with outdoor hallways in the first place
//Has no pictures of people flipping him off


Yeah, I completely acknowledge that outdoor halls aren't the norm in America. Probably only schools in the southern part of the states have them. By by "southern" I mean the cardinal direction, not the South.
 
2012-04-11 04:42:38 PM

eraser8: david_gaithersburg: You should check out many of the above posts.

First, I have.

Second, you should answer the question.


.
.
I will when I see yourself and others shaking your tiny self righteous fists over all of the other people that were killed in the US last night. Perhaps you just have some personal hatred of White Hispanics.
 
2012-04-11 04:42:57 PM

NightOwl2255: 9beers: No, he deserved to get shot for violently assaulting somebody.

And of course you were there so you know for a fact, beyond all doubt, that Martin violently attacked Zimmerman. Or did a witness see Martin attack Zimmerman? Or was there video of Martin attacking Zimmerman. Since you claim that Martin deserved to die, not that if he did attack Zimmerman he deserved to die, but just flat out deserved to die you must know it for a fact. Right?


Hes so sure, that he thinks he deserves an award.

img29.imageshack.us

img641.imageshack.us
 
2012-04-11 04:43:07 PM

Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.

Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.


Except that those facts are not true. Zimmerman's dad is a retired magistrate judge from Virginia. His name means fark all in Florida. The AG of Florida is Pam Bondi, who is a stone-cold fox.
 
2012-04-11 04:43:07 PM

dready zim: 9beers: he deserved to get shot for violently assaulting somebody

So you know the details of the two week investigation that was conducted? Are you a wizard?


Do you not know who 9beers is? He's the meanest internet tough guy here on Fark.
 
2012-04-11 04:43:14 PM

Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: His grandfather was the Governor of the state twice and fought against desegregation.

Oh my!...that's awkward.


I suspect someone's yanking our chains.
 
2012-04-11 04:43:24 PM

mojuba: Dude if you are intimidated by him, I feel sad for you, even with his grills he looks like a kid trying to be hard, but still looks like a kid. I don't think he could intimidate my Grandmother. Then again, she's not a racist hater and isn't afraid of Blacks, Latinos or Arabs because they have a darker shade then her.


So you're an ITG and a racist, got it.
 
2012-04-11 04:43:28 PM

9beers: Mrtraveler01: Well judging from that pic, now i believe Trayvon deserved to get shot.

No, he deserved to get shot for violently assaulting somebody. The recent pictures show that he wasn't a little kid, incapable of overpowering an adult, like so many of the mob (including you) has claimed.


You yourself said that Martin instigating the fight is pure speculation.
 
2012-04-11 04:43:31 PM
Listen you assclowns.....i'm taking the kid to Disneyworld in October.....hold off your race riots till after we leave


kthxbai
 
2012-04-11 04:43:33 PM

moralpanic: TravisBickle62: Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.

Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.

His family is basically all-powerful in Florida. His grandfather was the Governor of the state twice and fought against desegregation. Several of his cousins have been state senators, and one of his uncles was a U.S. Senator for 18 years.

And yet with all his connections, he's a failed police cadet that ended up working security at house parties.


Were they bachelorette parties at least? Otherwise it was just a waste of time IMHO.
 
2012-04-11 04:44:05 PM

Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: His grandfather was the Governor of the state twice and fought against desegregation.

Oh my!...that's awkward.


It gets worse, he is related to George Wallace on his father's side, and several family members violently opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. His great-uncle was Vice-President of the United States.
 
2012-04-11 04:44:08 PM

Thunderpipes: Guairdean: jfivealive: Guairdean: jfivealive: Him starting the fight is subjective, we don't know how started the fight. The stand your ground defense is applicable still.

No, he left the safety of his SUV and approached Trayvon. He placed himself in danger. Had Trayvon approached the SUV, then Zimmerman's actions would have been justified. Zimmerman became the aggressor when he approached Trayvon. At that point, Trayvon would have been justified in killing Zimmerman.

Approaching someone is not illegal

Approaching someone in a menacing manner is.

Oh for chrissakes....


But he's right. If you charge up to somebody like you are going to punch them, but the other guy manages to get the first punch in, you are the agressor. It's actually fairly likely that that was the case here, IMHO.
 
2012-04-11 04:44:31 PM

Godscrack: Thunderpipes: This is how it works. Nice to know that if you are not white, you can run around beating the crap out of people and it is perfectly okay

[img651.imageshack.us image 505x451]

[img39.imageshack.us image 567x278]

Yeah, it is nice to know.


White people problems?
 
2012-04-11 04:44:39 PM

vegasj: This one said their sources were told Zimmerman will not be charged.


Because if there's anyone that has the true facts, its Alex Jones.
 
2012-04-11 04:44:42 PM
We'll see what's up in 75 minutes or so.
 
2012-04-11 04:44:54 PM

P-Money All $tar: eraser8: symtronic: Thats great! Its still not a recent photo of the boy.... this is though:

Here's another recent photo:

[i39.tinypic.com image 540x591]

Why didn't you choose to use that one?

More Recent, than ANY of yours...

[www.thegrio.com image 400x299]

lower left hand corner

am I doin' it rite?


Taken just yesterday:

500.co

/look, Trayvon's made new friends!
//yes, I do think all zombies look alike, why do you ask?
 
2012-04-11 04:45:30 PM

moralpanic: dready zim: 9beers: he deserved to get shot for violently assaulting somebody

So you know the details of the two week investigation that was conducted? Are you a wizard?

Do you not know who 9beers is? He's the meanest internet tough guy here on Fark.


Dont make him get out of his hoverround, he will show you who is boss.
 
2012-04-11 04:46:19 PM

9beers: mojuba: Dude if you are intimidated by him, I feel sad for you, even with his grills he looks like a kid trying to be hard, but still looks like a kid. I don't think he could intimidate my Grandmother. Then again, she's not a racist hater and isn't afraid of Blacks, Latinos or Arabs because they have a darker shade then her.

So you're an ITG and a racist, got it.


That's what a racist would say.

Hey, I've got an idea: tell us what a clever racist would say. You know, one that really hates black people, but doesn't want anyone to know they are a racist. What would they say different from you?
 
2012-04-11 04:46:45 PM

david_gaithersburg: I will when I see yourself and others shaking your tiny self righteous fists over all of the other people that were killed in the US last night. Perhaps you just have some personal hatred of White Hispanics.


Actually, I haven't made any claim about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. I have made no claim about Martin's culpability in his own death.

I certainly haven't shaken a fist, self-righteous or otherwise.

Since, that's the case, you can go ahead and answer the question now.
 
2012-04-11 04:46:47 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Because if there's anyone that has the true facts, its Alex Jones.


or any other media outlet.

Why do people trust any of them? They all edited the 911 calls, they all edited or posted old, worn out photos of both involved to sway the reader one way.

Guess this is wear I'm called a racist or told to don my tin foil hat...
 
2012-04-11 04:47:06 PM

indylaw: Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.

Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.

Except that those facts are not true. Zimmerman's dad is a retired magistrate judge from Virginia. His name means fark all in Florida. The AG of Florida is Pam Bondi, who is a stone-cold fox.


.
.
Wut? Thirty minutes ago everyone here was claiming his dad lived in VA and was the head of the UN?
 
2012-04-11 04:47:13 PM

lucksi: Aaaaand why can't he be charged with first degree murder?


Second degree seems closer to what transpired. I don't see any evidence that Zimmerman went on the neighborhood watch planning to kill someone. There was no pre-meditation.
 
2012-04-11 04:47:18 PM

blackminded: Real quick though: Any Farkers want to make a recommendation on a Sig Sauer P229 chambered for .357SIG as a concealed carry weapon?

[img3.findthebest.com image 633x348]

/I'll check back later


Nope. The ammunition is expensive and the barrel is, imho, too short (depending on model). Plus I don't like double action handguns anyway. If you really know how to shoot well, get a 1911. If you are ok and want to be getting good, get a glock. If you suck, get a revolover.
 
2012-04-11 04:47:38 PM

Mrtraveler01: TravisBickle62: Zimmerman's dad is a Florida Supreme Court Justice, and his mom is the Attorney General for the State of Florida, the fix is in.

Basically this. This is less of a race thing and more of a case of Zimmerman having some very powerful connections.


George Zimmerman's father was a magistrate in the Virginia court system from 2000 until 2006 Link (new window)

His mother isn't the Attorney General for anywhere. If she were they would have planted drugs and a gun on Martin, as well as videos of him strangling puppies while terminal children were watching.
 
2012-04-11 04:48:07 PM
"Um, uh, Trayvon shot himself. That's the ticket. I was trying to wrestle the gun out of his hands and convince him that he had a wonderful life ahead of him, but he was too committed to ending his life." --GZ
 
2012-04-11 04:48:14 PM

Katolu: Begun, the race wars have.


www.choosepp.net
 
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