Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The New York Times)   NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2011: YOU WILL PAY, RINO VERMIN. NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2012: WE GOT NOTHIN'   (nytimes.com) divider line 58
    More: Obvious, RINO, Republican, same-sex marriages, New York, Holiday Inn, party discipline, Planck epoch, Republican leaders  
•       •       •

2990 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Apr 2012 at 9:12 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



58 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-04-11 08:53:40 AM  
I just came here to say that I find Republicans / Conservatives who support gay rights to be extremely sexy.
 
2012-04-11 08:59:07 AM  
tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?
 
2012-04-11 09:09:15 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?


I was just about to start reading it to summarize it for you. But then I saw it was five pages. So yeah, tl;dr for me as well.
 
2012-04-11 09:13:39 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?


NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2011: YOU WILL PAY, RINO VERMIN. NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2012: WE GOT NOTHIN'
 
2012-04-11 09:16:50 AM  

sprawl15: SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?

NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2011: YOU WILL PAY, RINO VERMIN. NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2012: WE GOT NOTHIN'


This summary seems strangely familiar to me.
 
2012-04-11 09:17:32 AM  
Didn't finish either. Reminded me of an acquaintance that "talks in paragraphs". Never uses one word when 50 will obscure the point better.
 
2012-04-11 09:20:50 AM  
Keller sure can write.

The headline is a little off-base. The hardline conservatives, includes the Conservative Party are gunning for the four pretty fiercely and in at least three of the fights have a good shot at unseating them. On the other hand, they have a lot of support (and money) that they can rally to hold onto their seats because they voted in favor of gay marriage.

It's a very good article.
 
2012-04-11 09:22:19 AM  
Many gays still experience America as intolerant, even menacing. But if the experience of New York's Republican dissenters teaches us anything, it is how quickly the political tide is turning, how quickly the "untraditional" is becoming normal. Is it moving quickly enough that the Supreme Court, where the issue may be headed via a California test case, will decide the country is ready to accept gay marriage as a constitutional right? Quickly enough that the issue could be an asset, or at least not a liability, if Cuomo runs for president in 2016? Neither would surprise me. At the very least, voting for gay marriage, even if you are a Republican politician from the heartland, is not the risk it would have been just a couple of years ago. The four defectors aren't guaranteed re-election. But if they lose, it is likely to be in spite of their marriage vote, not because of it.

Encapsulating.

But if still tl;dr: Gheys are no longer teh icky, said position is transitioning from an antiquated platform to a detrimental one.
 
2012-04-11 09:24:21 AM  

ginandbacon: Keller sure can write.


"Adding to the inexorability is a factor pollsters refer to as "salience," a measure of how much an issue means to you."

This issue matters to people in part because it matters to people.
 
2012-04-11 09:26:34 AM  

PunchDrunkPanda: But if still tl;dr: Gheys are no longer teh icky, said position is transitioning from an antiquated platform to a detrimental one.


Too...many....words...can't....stay awa............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
2012-04-11 09:28:12 AM  
"Well, I don't think it hurts anybody," Long replied, "but I think a society has to have certain standards, and since the beginning of time, marriage has been between a man and a woman." Marriage, he elaborated, is about children. "You're not going to procreate children with same-sex couples."

I told him that would be news to my daughters' school classmates, the ones with two moms or two dads. And by the way, we don't prohibit elderly, infertile or just plain procreation-averse couples from marrying.

"I know plenty of gay couples, O.K.?" he snapped back. "Some of them, if not all of them, are very good people, O.K.? I just don't believe that society needs to change what the definition of marriage is to accommodate their lifestyle. That's all. You know, that may be old-school. But I think Western civilization has done pretty good old-school."


What an ass.
Fear of change is natural, but when you've exhausted all reason to be afraid you're just being a pigheaded bigot and a coward.
 
2012-04-11 09:31:59 AM  
"But I think Western civilization has done pretty good old-school."

That's total crap. Western civilization has done pretty good because it's been willing to shed tradition in order to form a more egalitarian society.

Meaning, you're standing in the way of Western civilization, dumbass.
 
2012-04-11 09:32:55 AM  

GhostFish: "Well, I don't think it hurts anybody," Long replied, "but I think a society has to have certain standards, and since the beginning of time, marriage has been between a man and a woman." Marriage, he elaborated, is about children. "You're not going to procreate children with same-sex couples."

I told him that would be news to my daughters' school classmates, the ones with two moms or two dads. And by the way, we don't prohibit elderly, infertile or just plain procreation-averse couples from marrying.

"I know plenty of gay couples, O.K.?" he snapped back. "Some of them, if not all of them, are very good people, O.K.? I just don't believe that society needs to change what the definition of marriage is to accommodate their lifestyle. That's all. You know, that may be old-school. But I think Western civilization has done pretty good old-school."

What an ass.
Fear of change is natural, but when you've exhausted all reason to be afraid you're just being a pigheaded bigot and a coward.



This. Sorry it's out of your comfort zone, old "conservative" guy, but this is supposed to be a free country. Your comfort zone should not be confused with our laws.

Oy vey, baby boomers. The selfish generation.
 
2012-04-11 09:33:09 AM  

PunchDrunkPanda: Many gays still experience America as intolerant, even menacing. But if the experience of New York's Republican dissenters teaches us anything, it is how quickly the political tide is turning, how quickly the "untraditional" is becoming normal. Is it moving quickly enough that the Supreme Court, where the issue may be headed via a California test case, will decide the country is ready to accept gay marriage as a constitutional right? Quickly enough that the issue could be an asset, or at least not a liability, if Cuomo runs for president in 2016? Neither would surprise me. At the very least, voting for gay marriage, even if you are a Republican politician from the heartland, is not the risk it would have been just a couple of years ago. The four defectors aren't guaranteed re-election. But if they lose, it is likely to be in spite of their marriage vote, not because of it.

Encapsulating.

But if still tl;dr: Gheys are no longer teh icky, said position is transitioning from an antiquated platform to a detrimental one.


That part in bold text bothers me. The Supreme Court shouldn't be deciding if the country is 'ready' for a law, or the removal of a law. The Supreme Court should only be deciding on a law's constitutionality.

This goes along the same vein as everyone who always brings up the demographic numbers for those who support gay rights, highlighting the younger generations while proclaiming, "You've already lost, the current young generation 'doesn't care.'"

They may not 'care,' but gay men and women shouldn't have to wait for the country to be 'ready' to have these rights, in my opinion. How many more years are we going to have to wait for the younger generations to come of age to hold most of the power in this country to give us these rights that they 'don't care' about? Twenty, thirty years?
 
2012-04-11 09:36:42 AM  
If you're uncomfortable with gay marriage, you need more lube.
 
2012-04-11 09:37:27 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?


Upstate NY Conservative Party types support 4 Republicans for office in NY state.

Non-approval of gay marriage is a litmus test for them.

Those 4 Republicans end up voting their conscience and supporting the gay right's legislation introduced by Andrew Cuomo allowing the legislation to pass.

Upstate NY Conservative Party types put up billboards expressing their butt-hurt over the "betrayal" by the "New York 4" and vow to oust them.

People who know how to read a demographic chart regarding public opinion on the issue point at them and laugh.

Farkers follow suit.
 
2012-04-11 09:38:34 AM  
The article is too long at five pages?

What are you all? College Students?

Maybe they should start adding Adderall to the national water supply. God our your attention spans really that short?

It is an interesting article about the idiotic world of NY Republican/conservative politics.

And it includes a great anecdote about a state senator breaking into an unoccupied house, injuring himself and then suing the owners (who had declined to press charges against him for trespassing).
 
2012-04-11 09:39:17 AM  
That's the thing... I've known all along that the anti-gay Conservatives have "got nothing". Hopefully people are starting to realize it.

Semi-Related P.S. Cuomo is turning out to be a damn good governor.
 
2012-04-11 09:39:53 AM  
G&B's summation also works.
 
2012-04-11 09:39:59 AM  
Why anyone votes Republican is beyond me. Even the 1% must be sick of it, unless they happen to be a religious crazy.

www.myqwip.com
(click to vote)
 
2012-04-11 09:44:26 AM  

Cythraul: gay men and women shouldn't have to wait for the country to be 'ready' to have these rights, in my opinion. How many more years are we going to have to wait for the younger generations to come of age to hold most of the power in this country to give us these rights that they 'don't care' about? Twenty, thirty years?


Oh come on, why are they rushing us? Why do we need gay marriage now, and not in twenty more years when maybe people are more comfortable with it? What could possibly happen in that intervening time? It's not like gays are being excluded from their partners' hospital rooms and funerals, cheated out of inheritances, or denied the right to adopt children.

I think they're rushing it because the Gay Agenda promised George Soros they would crown him as King of the Gay Ass States of America before he finally succumbs to a rare STI he contracted in the tranny flesh pots of Rangoon. WE'RE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS HERE PEOPLE!
 
2012-04-11 09:45:45 AM  

quatchi: G&B's summation also works.


Thank you, I liked yours as well :)
 
2012-04-11 09:46:32 AM  

Cythraul: That part in bold text bothers me. The Supreme Court shouldn't be deciding if the country is 'ready' for a law, or the removal of a law. The Supreme Court should only be deciding on a law's constitutionality.


*Archer voice*

Cythraul, come on, this is Scalia we're talking about.
 
2012-04-11 09:51:07 AM  

sprawl15: NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2011: YOU WILL PAY, RINO VERMIN. NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2012: WE GOT NOTHIN'


That's not entirely fair. They still got Carl Paladino.
 
2012-04-11 09:55:25 AM  

GhostFish: "Well, I don't think it hurts anybody," Long replied, "but I think a society has to have certain standards, and since the beginning of time, marriage has been between a man and a woman." Marriage, he elaborated, is about children. "You're not going to procreate children with same-sex couples."

I told him that would be news to my daughters' school classmates, the ones with two moms or two dads. And by the way, we don't prohibit elderly, infertile or just plain procreation-averse couples from marrying.

"I know plenty of gay couples, O.K.?" he snapped back. "Some of them, if not all of them, are very good people, O.K.? I just don't believe that society needs to change what the definition of marriage is to accommodate their lifestyle. That's all. You know, that may be old-school. But I think Western civilization has done pretty good old-school."

What an ass.
Fear of change is natural, but when you've exhausted all reason to be afraid you're just being a pigheaded bigot and a coward.


When I had the debate with my mom (a conservative-ish Democrat, at least from my perspective) last year, we got to this point in the debate. The reason my mom is awesome is because she looked at her opinions in light of my arguments and said, "Well, I guess I don't like it*, but I'll have to get used to it."

* Tradition! She doesn't like the fact that the "traditional" understanding of the word "marriage" has/is changing. Doesn't care a fart in a windstorm whether you're gay.
 
2012-04-11 09:59:23 AM  
This is kind of big:
And Republican leaders are delighted that gay donors - who might, in the wake of a defeat, have mounted jihad against the state's Republicans - are instead contributing generously to save these four Republican seats. Each raised between $400,000 and $540,000 in the 10 months after the vote, mighty war chests for State Senate races.

I think the GOP should understand how much they could be funded if they started thinking "limited government by expanding rights" .
 
2012-04-11 10:01:28 AM  

ginandbacon: The headline is a little off-base. The hardline conservatives, includes the Conservative Party are gunning for the four pretty fiercely and in at least three of the fights have a good shot at unseating them. On the other hand, they have a lot of support (and money) that they can rally to hold onto their seats because they voted in favor of gay marriage.


It's also fair to note that in New York, a candidate can be endorsed by multiple parties, and their name appears in multiple spots on the ballot column. Obviously, you get the D and the R on the top, but then you also get the Conservative, Independence, Working Families, Green parties, and a few other minor affiliations. A candidates total votes are the sum of votes received for each spot on the ballot.

These candidates that voted are not appearing on the Conservative party line.
 
2012-04-11 10:08:06 AM  
Grisanti is my state senator. He won his position over a democrat embroiled in a minor ethics scandal, and even then won by very little. The area is about 60-40 DEM/GOP. It was his stated position on gay marriage that had me willing to vote for that democrat, even though I had to hold my nose to do that. Seriously.

BUT, his district includes the gayborhood, and many of us have pretty much agreed that his one vote for us gets him one vote from us, but he seems to be doing everything possible to make everybody just disregard him as a child, including a a Caylee's law proposal which was weapons-grade stupid and got shot down once that fell out of favor, a fist fight at a casino, a bunch of other nonsense.

But EVERY TIME the NOM-types put up a billboard against him, his support locally goes up, and it's mostly the perception that the non-Buffalo people are the ones doing the threatening. The louder the anti-marriage equality people get, especially when it's in the "You're next," vein, which a lot of people just see as vague threats, the more support he gets.

I tweeted and emailed Grisanti almost every day telling him I'd expect an answer TO MY FACE about why he voted as he did if he went against the general consensus of the area he represented. Really got a good couple dozen people prepared to show up at his 'meet and greets' and expect an answer in person. I think we scared the bejeezus out of him, even though we were all polite. I swear he's trying to make me regret the one vote I'm willing to give him with his complete nonsense the rest of the time.
 
2012-04-11 10:08:27 AM  

Cythraul: I just came here to say that I find Republicans / Conservatives who support gay rights to be extremely sexy.


so do i, and i am not even gay

/last i checked
//nttawwt
///hubba hubba gary johnson
 
2012-04-11 10:15:19 AM  
You know, that may be old-school. But I think Western civilization has done pretty good old-school."

Psst. Western Civilization is anything but old-school. That's why it is the most prosperous and dominant civilization.
 
2012-04-11 10:16:55 AM  
Oh, should add, Grisanti is getting challenged in the GOP primary, but no one expects the guy against him to win, and if he does, the area will go right back to the democrats, so...crickets from the GOP...but at least said primary guy does exist.
 
2012-04-11 10:20:23 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?


Basically pro-same-sex marriage Republicans realized they were in New York state, told the conservatives "you have no power over us" and then all the conservatives turned into owls.

/not obscure
 
2012-04-11 10:20:46 AM  

Arkanaut: sprawl15: NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2011: YOU WILL PAY, RINO VERMIN. NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2012: WE GOT NOTHIN'

That's not entirely fair. They still got Carl Paladino.


One hopes that the NY Conservatives pushing for this suffer a crushinating similar to Paladino's.
 
2012-04-11 10:27:15 AM  
Would be nice to see the NY gays and their supporters come out to vote for these guys and let other GOP politicians know that they really do work for the voters not the party.
 
2012-04-11 10:27:17 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?


Republicans are furious that a few of their own voted to grant equal rights. Everyone else is happy with them and they'll probably keep their seats.
 
2012-04-11 10:34:38 AM  

GAT_00: SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?

Republicans are furious that a few of their own voted to grant equal rights. Everyone else is happy with them and they'll probably keep their seats.


Well, NY does have closed primaries; it's possible some of the anti-equal rights candidates could emerge victorious there. This would of course be swiftly followed by a crushing defeat at the hands of the Democratic candidate, which could - dare I say it - break the deadlock in the state Senate.

Also, I enjoyed this: Try as they might to explain away the defections - perhaps it was the lure of money from gay hedge-fund billionaires, or some devilish deal with Cuomo - the Conservatives feared that this defeat, if not punished, could mean an ominous loss of influence.
 
2012-04-11 10:48:09 AM  
Hey, whaddya know? Sane Rockefeller Republicans. THEY EXIST!!!

sprawl15: SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?

NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2011: YOU WILL PAY, RINO VERMIN. NY conservatives to pro-same-sex-marriage Republicans, 2012: WE GOT NOTHIN'


And you win the thread.
 
2012-04-11 10:59:29 AM  

AntiNerd: Why anyone votes Republican is beyond me. Even the 1% must be sick of it, unless they happen to be a religious crazy.

[www.myqwip.com image 250x300]
(click to vote)


Seriously, stop with all these votable charts. What exactly are you trying to prove? That the Fark Politics commenters tend to support liberal positions more than conservative ones? Did you not already know that?
 
2012-04-11 11:06:14 AM  

qorkfiend: GAT_00: SecretAgentWoman: tl;dr

Anyone want to summarize this 5 page behemoth for the ADD types?

Republicans are furious that a few of their own voted to grant equal rights. Everyone else is happy with them and they'll probably keep their seats.

Well, NY does have closed primaries; it's possible some of the anti-equal rights candidates could emerge victorious there. This would of course be swiftly followed by a crushing defeat at the hands of the Democratic candidate, which could - dare I say it - break the deadlock in the state Senate.

Also, I enjoyed this: Try as they might to explain away the defections - perhaps it was the lure of money from gay hedge-fund billionaires, or some devilish deal with Cuomo - the Conservatives feared that this defeat, if not punished, could mean an ominous loss of influence.


Well, it'll break one deadlock anyway -- the Dem vs GOP deadlock.

The Upstate vs NYC deadlock will exist in perpetuity.
 
2012-04-11 11:28:46 AM  
"I swore with my hand on the Bible to uphold the Constitution," he told me. "I didn't swear with my hand on the Constitution to uphold the Bible."

I like this quote. If only more of our leaders could say the same with a straight face.
 
2012-04-11 11:39:24 AM  
king something
The Upstate vs NYC deadlock will exist in perpetuity.

I worked for a company whose headquarters is in Manhattan. Got a couple of gems from that job.

"I've never been upstate before. It's actually kind of nice. I'd have thought it would be all dirt roads and bendy rifles."
"Bendy rifles?"
"Yeah, you know. Two big bullets, side by side."
"You mean a shotgun?!"
"That's them, yeah."

"Hey, we need someone in Syracuse and that's only like ten minutes from Albany, right?"

"Wait, you guys have black people up there now?"
 
2012-04-11 11:48:00 AM  
I am a gay New Yorker and owe these four a debt of gratitude I am not sure I could ever fully repay. They risked their livelihoods to do what is right. They risked their safety for my rights. My life changed for the better last year because these "dissenters" had the courage to stand up to bigotry.
 
2012-04-11 12:11:11 PM  

victrin: I am a gay New Yorker and owe these four a debt of gratitude I am not sure I could ever fully repay. They risked their livelihoods to do what is right. They risked their safety for my rights. My life changed for the better last year because these "dissenters" had the courage to stand up to bigotry.


They did their f*cking jobs.

I'm not saying they weren't brave (for risking their temporary positions) but how bad has it gotten that four Republicans sticking up for their constituents or constitutional beliefs has become so amazing?

Steve Saland finally put his money where his mouth is. Hurrah.
 
2012-04-11 12:23:55 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: king something
The Upstate vs NYC deadlock will exist in perpetuity.

I worked for a company whose headquarters is in Manhattan. Got a couple of gems from that job.

"I've never been upstate before. It's actually kind of nice. I'd have thought it would be all dirt roads and bendy rifles."
"Bendy rifles?"
"Yeah, you know. Two big bullets, side by side."
"You mean a shotgun?!"
"That's them, yeah."

"Hey, we need someone in Syracuse and that's only like ten minutes from Albany, right?"

"Wait, you guys have black people up there now?"


The upstate-downstate divide is pretty amazing.

I've spent a lot of time living in both ends of the state.

I know a lot of upstaters who have this inherent loathing of NYC, even if they've never been there. It's pretty irrational.

I also know a lot of downstaters and NYC natives whose ignorance of upstate is astounding. And this from people who generally consider themselves cosmopolitan and well-traveled, and yet their knowledge of their own state is minimal. No, upstate isn't all farms. Lots of people live in urban areas. There are a lot of black people, and a lot of Democrats too. There's very little religious fundamentalism. And it's actually really big.
 
2012-04-11 12:41:35 PM  

victrin: I am a gay New Yorker and owe these four a debt of gratitude I am not sure I could ever fully repay. They risked their livelihoods to do what is right. They risked their safety for my rights. My life changed for the better last year because these "dissenters" had the courage to stand up to bigotry.


It always warms my heart every time a Conservatives speaks out on the right side of this issue. It gives me hope for humanity in general.
 
2012-04-11 12:56:47 PM  

mrshowrules: victrin: I am a gay New Yorker and owe these four a debt of gratitude I am not sure I could ever fully repay. They risked their livelihoods to do what is right. They risked their safety for my rights. My life changed for the better last year because these "dissenters" had the courage to stand up to bigotry.

It always warms my heart every time a Conservatives speaks out on the right side of this issue. It gives me hope for humanity in general.


So vote Republican

//too easy
 
2012-04-11 01:00:53 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: victrin: I am a gay New Yorker and owe these four a debt of gratitude I am not sure I could ever fully repay. They risked their livelihoods to do what is right. They risked their safety for my rights. My life changed for the better last year because these "dissenters" had the courage to stand up to bigotry.

They did their f*cking jobs.

I'm not saying they weren't brave (for risking their temporary positions) but how bad has it gotten that four Republicans sticking up for their constituents or constitutional beliefs has become so amazing?

Steve Saland finally put his money where his mouth is. Hurrah.


I'm actually with MMMHP on this.

I get where you're coming from, and would be over the farking moon if most people didn't view politics as a zero-sum game where party lines define your actions. But these days I keep going back to the Goldwater quote about the necessity for compromise in politics, and how the influx of evangelicals into the Republican party spelled its doom. Events like this, where politicians show a willingness to look past party dogma and demonstrate a willingness to change their stance on an issue, show that compromise on issues that have an actual effect on our lives isn't completely dead yet, and that's what makes me happy.
 
2012-04-11 01:20:24 PM  
Old white dudes who make up the majority of conservatives should be used to impotence, amiright?

/here all week...try the veal
 
2012-04-11 01:21:05 PM  

monoski: mrshowrules: victrin: I am a gay New Yorker and owe these four a debt of gratitude I am not sure I could ever fully repay. They risked their livelihoods to do what is right. They risked their safety for my rights. My life changed for the better last year because these "dissenters" had the courage to stand up to bigotry.

It always warms my heart every time a Conservatives speaks out on the right side of this issue. It gives me hope for humanity in general.

So vote Republican

//too easy


I'm Canadian so I can't but I would actually consider voting for a Republican taking a politically courageous position like that.
 
2012-04-11 01:22:28 PM  

Cythraul: I just came here to say that I find Republicans / Conservatives who support gay rights to be extremely sexy.


Both of them?
 
Displayed 50 of 58 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report