Sony, a while back, introduced a nifty pocket-size audio recorder, the PCM-M10. Uncharacteristically for them, it actually supports MicroSDHC cards along with their own proprietary media. I'd actually consider getting one, if I didn't already have an Olympus that does what I need. Still, I might have thought that Sony finally acquired some Clue.

Alas, that wasn't the case. Only the pro audio side of Sony gets it. For instance, note that the PS Vita not only doesn't support industry-standard flash media, it doesn't even support Sony's own goddamn Memory Sticks. That's right, it has its very own overpriced flash media format, used by nothing else.

Fark Sony.

I used to be all about Sony products myself, having owned a couple of Sony Walkmans and Discmans. The Walkmans were great, but the Discman was terrible. Approximately one year after purchase, the buttons didn't work properly and simply looking at it would cause a disc to skip. This is when I started to suspect the existence of The Sony Timer.

I'm perfectly happy with Sony. Just got a PS3, surround sound system, and Sony/Google TV for Christmas and love them all. I'm the kind of person to wait a few years and let newer item get the bugs worked out.

Had other stuff through the years up to and including PS2 without any problems.

But I will admit we just use everything for the basics. Some poster above said something about the PS3 browser. If it has one I sure didn't know. We have two computers and the Google TV to take care of that, so I never looked.

And the kids don't get into the online gaming much, and I don't at all, so if there are glitches with that world we haven't encountered them yet.

The quality of the picture and sound for movies, the DVR box, and Netflix streaming really improved our lives, so I don't get the hate. Oh, well.

Samsung > Sony

/that is all

Bought new earbuds from them 2 weeks ago and I already get static constantly
/threw away the receipt because the previous lasted for years
//yeah yeah

I have 2 Sony E-Readers, PRS-350 and a PRS-T1. Both are terrific. My Kindle 3 is another story. I'm on my 3rd atm and all have the same problem of a blank spot. The last one I opened the box in the shop and gave it to the salesman. He reckons a bad batch.
/waiting for one direct from manufacturer.
// Sony software for e-readers is b a d.

TaGirl_Keri : I have 2 Sony E-Readers, PRS-350 and a PRS-T1. Both are terrific. My Kindle 3 is another story. I'm on my 3rd atm and all have the same problem of a blank spot.

Could have been a bad batch, those E-ink screens all come from the same company (who rapes all of the companies on the price of the screen).

These days, there are a lot of common parts between devices, (remember the laptop battery blowout from a few years back).

// e-ink is another tech that originated at Xerox's PARC. I'm not saying they had aliens working there, but ...

LordArgent.
Probably what you and the salesman said. That's why I insisted on trying it in the shop, I felt a fool with the salesman thinking I was a sorta n00b returning all the time.
Or an alien.

lordargent: Could have been a bad batch, those E-ink screens all come from the same company (who rapes all of the companies on the price of the screen).

Are you kidding? You can get an e-reader for under $100. This is technology which cost $300-$400 only a few years ago. Prices on components for e-readers have plummeted. Consumers have got used to giant electronics companies getting razor thin margins on a wide swath of products. It is a rather interesting feedback loop, and part of the reasons wages are stagnant.

ThunderPelvis: Most people in the world would be shocked at the insane wastefulness and stupidity of Japanese corporate culture. The lifetime employment system creates a totally de-incentivized work environment where laziness is rampant, creativity is squashed, and merit-based promotion is difficult or impossible for people who don't start working at the company right out of college. The future Mrs. ThunderPelvis works in one of these joints and is constantly bringing home stories of astonishing assholery and incompetence from her superiors and coworkers.

/Also, f*ck Sony. I hope they go bankrupt.

Toyota

Harry_Seldon : Are you kidding? You can get an e-reader for under $100.

The cost of the screen is still a decent chunk of the cost, especially when you're talking about millions of devices. The last spec sheet I read was for the kindle 2 and it listed the screen as $60 of the materials cost.



If that's anywhere near correct, that's about 40% of the material cost of the device.

They're bound to get cheaper, but with just one company holding the screen tech, they don't have a lot of incentive to reduce their prices.

/memory got cheaper
/amazon subsidizes more of the cost now

//In the world of consumer electronics, single sourced parts are the devil.

Harry_Seldon : Are you kidding? You can get an e-reader for under $100.

Just saw another article while googling.

Showing the cost of the screen on the newer kindles at $30.

I am surprised that there was not even a mention of Sony sucking up SonyErricsson in total and turning it into just Sony Brand Smartphones.

They are gonna blow that one too....big time. I can see them locking down the bootloader and the Android community going apes*it over it

ThunderPelvis: Most people in the world would be shocked at the insane wastefulness and stupidity of Japanese corporate culture. The lifetime employment system creates a totally de-incentivized work environment where laziness is rampant, creativity is squashed, and merit-based promotion is difficult or impossible for people who don't start working at the company right out of college. The future Mrs. ThunderPelvis works in one of these joints and is constantly bringing home stories of astonishing assholery and incompetence from her superiors and coworkers.

/Also, f*ck Sony. I hope they go bankrupt.

He hopes his future wife loses her job. He's really something else.

doglover: Mad_Radhu: Overall, its a really good console about not nickel and diming you.

Plus the original hardware was a wet dream. It has a PS2 built in. I mean, imagine how awesome it would be if Nintendo did the same thing? A gamecube that has ports and chips for all the old systems would kill their business model, though.

the Wii had gamecube ports for actual gamecube controllers and peripherals and memory cards, for the first few years with the PS3 you couldn't even plug in a PS2 controller and most PS2 peripherals aren't supported on the PS3

not to mention the B/C PS3's are fatally flawed, so it never really was a great thing to begin with

/already had 1 60gb kick the bucket
//patiently waiting for my 2nd to as well

I've never had a major problem with Sony's build quality or anything like that. My wife has a Sony laptop that the little plastic ring in the charger port fell out of so the cord doesn't stay in it, but that's it.

I'm just tired of Sony kicking me in the balls every time I turn around. They treat their customers with outright contempt and, at this point, I think it's fair to say that you have to be a special kind of stupid to do business with them.

AdamK: doglover: Mad_Radhu: Overall, its a really good console about not nickel and diming you.

Plus the original hardware was a wet dream. It has a PS2 built in. I mean, imagine how awesome it would be if Nintendo did the same thing? A gamecube that has ports and chips for all the old systems would kill their business model, though.

the Wii had gamecube ports for actual gamecube controllers and peripherals and memory cards, for the first few years with the PS3 you couldn't even plug in a PS2 controller and most PS2 peripherals aren't supported on the PS3

not to mention the B/C PS3's are fatally flawed, so it never really was a great thing to begin with

/already had 1 60gb kick the bucket
//patiently waiting for my 2nd to as well

I might be tempting fate (knock on wood), but I've used my 60GB B/C machine almost every day since I bought it (at launch) and it's never given me one problem; even after putting 100+ hours into Skyrim over the past few months.

As if the rootkit fiasco was not a sufficient demonstration of Sony's anti-consumer attitude,

I decided I would never, ever buy any Sony product when I saw the list of Sony's attempts at pushing proprietary hardware and/or formats onto the world. Google it. It's an amazingly long list of the many times that Sony has sought to achieve its wet dream of charging everyone in the world a 40% premium.

You have to BE the change you want to see in the world. I want a world where consumers punish companies for their anti-consumer behaviors. And so now I'm doing it. F*** off and die, Sony, so that I can spit on the grave of your rotten corporate culture.

SONY, I AM DISAPPOINT

Splinshints: I've never had a major problem with Sony's build quality or anything like that. My wife has a Sony laptop that the little plastic ring in the charger port fell out of so the cord doesn't stay in it, but that's it.

I'm just tired of Sony kicking me in the balls every time I turn around. They treat their customers with outright contempt and, at this point, I think it's fair to say that you have to be a special kind of stupid to do business with them.

We have a neighbor that has a problem with a Sony DVD Player. He did some research, and found out that it is a firmware issue from the factory. So he called Sony, and they have refused to help him because the item is out of warranty.

So, let me get this straight, this is an item that left your factory with a known defect. Not just one, but all of them. You know this, but you won't help the customer?

Huh.

Grables'Daughter: Splinshints: I've never had a major problem with Sony's build quality or anything like that. My wife has a Sony laptop that the little plastic ring in the charger port fell out of so the cord doesn't stay in it, but that's it.

I'm just tired of Sony kicking me in the balls every time I turn around. They treat their customers with outright contempt and, at this point, I think it's fair to say that you have to be a special kind of stupid to do business with them.

We have a neighbor that has a problem with a Sony DVD Player. He did some research, and found out that it is a firmware issue from the factory. So he called Sony, and they have refused to help him because the item is out of warranty.

So, let me get this straight, this is an item that left your factory with a known defect. Not just one, but all of them. You know this, but you won't help the customer?

Huh.

you can't expect them to fix things forever. Out of warranty means that the guy had the player long enough to have either noticed the problem and did nothing, or it broke once out of warranty. It doesn't really matter if it is a known defect (unless you are Microsoft; they will pretty much swap out any 360 for a refurb if you get the RROD no matter how old it is).

Grables'Daughter: Splinshints: I've never had a major problem with Sony's build quality or anything like that. My wife has a Sony laptop that the little plastic ring in the charger port fell out of so the cord doesn't stay in it, but that's it.

I'm just tired of Sony kicking me in the balls every time I turn around. They treat their customers with outright contempt and, at this point, I think it's fair to say that you have to be a special kind of stupid to do business with them.

We have a neighbor that has a problem with a Sony DVD Player. He did some research, and found out that it is a firmware issue from the factory. So he called Sony, and they have refused to help him because the item is out of warranty.

So, let me get this straight, this is an item that left your factory with a known defect. Not just one, but all of them. You know this, but you won't help the customer?

Huh.

FFS, a DVD player? GO BUY ANOTHER ONE. They are dirt cheap, you can pick one up on ebay, craigslist or even a thrift store for next to nothing. Hell, I knew it was over for that format when I saw them on the shelves of a local CVS several years ago for $50.

EbolaNYC: Grables'Daughter: Splinshints: I've never had a major problem with Sony's build quality or anything like that. My wife has a Sony laptop that the little plastic ring in the charger port fell out of so the cord doesn't stay in it, but that's it.

I'm just tired of Sony kicking me in the balls every time I turn around. They treat their customers with outright contempt and, at this point, I think it's fair to say that you have to be a special kind of stupid to do business with them.

We have a neighbor that has a problem with a Sony DVD Player. He did some research, and found out that it is a firmware issue from the factory. So he called Sony, and they have refused to help him because the item is out of warranty.

So, let me get this straight, this is an item that left your factory with a known defect. Not just one, but all of them. You know this, but you won't help the customer?

Huh.

FFS, a DVD player? GO BUY ANOTHER ONE. They are dirt cheap, you can pick one up on ebay, craigslist or even a thrift store for next to nothing. Hell, I knew it was over for that format when I saw them on the shelves of a local CVS several years ago for $50.

that doesn't mean "the format is over". it means it has reached consumer acceptance and critical popular mass has been reached so the hardware is dirt cheap now. it is also why at launch a ps3 is 600 bucks but can be had for less than 150 now.

CSB!

I bought my PS3 a few months after it came out, got one of the last 60gb at the local Best Buy. About a year later the HDMI output just stopped working. Was in to some other things at the time, so I didn't really care all that much and just let it gather dust behind the TV. Recently got a new TV and just figured, what the heck, I'll see if it works again. Oddly enough, thing boots up like a charm HDMI and all. Now I'm going through the few years of games I didn't play at dirt cheap.

/CSB!

headlly: CSB!

I bought my PS3 a few months after it came out, got one of the last 60gb at the local Best Buy. About a year later the HDMI output just stopped working. Was in to some other things at the time, so I didn't really care all that much and just let it gather dust behind the TV. Recently got a new TV and just figured, what the heck, I'll see if it works again. Oddly enough, thing boots up like a charm HDMI and all. Now I'm going through the few years of games I didn't play at dirt cheap.

/CSB!

sounds like your Monster Brand GOLDEN FLEECED HDMI cable (now with real Tears of Christ) must have came loose.

LesserEvil: Mad_Radhu: doglover: sno man: They have been selling crap for decades, on the reputation of the stuff from the 70's...

Actually, Sony products are usually farkin' good. My PS3 is AMAZING. Sony electronics like TVs and such do have awesome pictures and shelf lives.

But they like to lock all their shiat down and use proprietary formats, as far back as Betamax.


Sony understands engineering, but not consumers.

Sony's big problem is that they have to keep the assholes that run their movie studio and record label happy, which leads to stupid crap like rootkits on CDs and ATRAC.

That said, the PS3 is pretty good when it comes to not being terribly proprietary. The hard drive is easily swappable with an off the shelf laptop drive, instead of needing a special drive like the Xbox. The controllers are also standard bluetooth as well, and don't need special charging kits. It's also really good about supporting DLNA streaming. Overall, its a really good console about not nickel and diming you.

DLNA is a joke with Sony... where is the MKV support? Oh yeah, Sony feels they'd be supporting dirty pirates if they supported MKV, just like them spurning XVID for years.

Also they took FOREVER to join the MP3 party, instead pushing their own crappy ATRAC format.

They've also actively locked out third-party controllers (still costs over $50 for a PS3 wireless controller) and when offered a chance to embrace the homebrew community (and lock out piracy) they rejected it wholesale.

The ATRAC format was superior. I ripped CDS right onto my mini disc player, and one night I was listening to ATRAC versus MP3 (256) and man, ATRAC was delivering instruments I didn't even know were in the song.

halB: LesserEvil: Mad_Radhu: doglover: sno man: They have been selling crap for decades, on the reputation of the stuff from the 70's...

Actually, Sony products are usually farkin' good. My PS3 is AMAZING. Sony electronics like TVs and such do have awesome pictures and shelf lives.

But they like to lock all their shiat down and use proprietary formats, as far back as Betamax.


Sony understands engineering, but not consumers.

Sony's big problem is that they have to keep the assholes that run their movie studio and record label happy, which leads to stupid crap like rootkits on CDs and ATRAC.

That said, the PS3 is pretty good when it comes to not being terribly proprietary. The hard drive is easily swappable with an off the shelf laptop drive, instead of needing a special drive like the Xbox. The controllers are also standard bluetooth as well, and don't need special charging kits. It's also really good about supporting DLNA streaming. Overall, its a really good console about not nickel and diming you.

DLNA is a joke with Sony... where is the MKV support? Oh yeah, Sony feels they'd be supporting dirty pirates if they supported MKV, just like them spurning XVID for years.

Also they took FOREVER to join the MP3 party, instead pushing their own crappy ATRAC format.

They've also actively locked out third-party controllers (still costs over $50 for a PS3 wireless controller) and when offered a chance to embrace the homebrew community (and lock out piracy) they rejected it wholesale.

The ATRAC format was superior. I ripped CDS right onto my mini disc player, and one night I was listening to ATRAC versus MP3 (256) and man, ATRAC was delivering instruments I didn't even know were in the song.

so, you never actually listened to the original cd?

What I'm gathering from this post is the really techy guys and early adopters has some growing pains.

From the perspective of a guy who is a late adopter and doesn't bother with all the added features, I still like Sony. The PS3, surround sound, and Google TV mesh together nicely & are a huge improvement over the previous 29" tube and PS2--no surround sound.

My thought was to wait for all the plasma burn-in, limited broadcast selection, progression to LED, built-in internet, fully-incorporated Netflix stuff was figured out.

Couldn't be happier that by waiting a while I got everything all at once working together properly--no muss, no fuss.

/Still use my RAZR flip phone. Waiting for those new "smart phones" to figure it all out.
//Need to update the map on my Garmin, though.

frepnog: Grables'Daughter: Splinshints: I've never had a major problem with Sony's build quality or anything like that. My wife has a Sony laptop that the little plastic ring in the charger port fell out of so the cord doesn't stay in it, but that's it.

I'm just tired of Sony kicking me in the balls every time I turn around. They treat their customers with outright contempt and, at this point, I think it's fair to say that you have to be a special kind of stupid to do business with them.

We have a neighbor that has a problem with a Sony DVD Player. He did some research, and found out that it is a firmware issue from the factory. So he called Sony, and they have refused to help him because the item is out of warranty.

So, let me get this straight, this is an item that left your factory with a known defect. Not just one, but all of them. You know this, but you won't help the customer?

Huh.

you can't expect them to fix things forever. Out of warranty means that the guy had the player long enough to have either noticed the problem and did nothing, or it broke once out of warranty. It doesn't really matter if it is a known defect (unless you are Microsoft; they will pretty much swap out any 360 for a refurb if you get the RROD no matter how old it is).

No, this was a few years ago, and it had a 90 day warranty, and the problem only showed up with certain DVDs if I remember, and if memory serves it was four months old.

My point is, he said that Sony's whole attitude was: fark YOU.

Grables'Daughter: frepnog: Grables'Daughter: Splinshints: I've never had a major problem with Sony's build quality or anything like that. My wife has a Sony laptop that the little plastic ring in the charger port fell out of so the cord doesn't stay in it, but that's it.

I'm just tired of Sony kicking me in the balls every time I turn around. They treat their customers with outright contempt and, at this point, I think it's fair to say that you have to be a special kind of stupid to do business with them.

We have a neighbor that has a problem with a Sony DVD Player. He did some research, and found out that it is a firmware issue from the factory. So he called Sony, and they have refused to help him because the item is out of warranty.

So, let me get this straight, this is an item that left your factory with a known defect. Not just one, but all of them. You know this, but you won't help the customer?

Huh.

you can't expect them to fix things forever. Out of warranty means that the guy had the player long enough to have either noticed the problem and did nothing, or it broke once out of warranty. It doesn't really matter if it is a known defect (unless you are Microsoft; they will pretty much swap out any 360 for a refurb if you get the RROD no matter how old it is).

No, this was a few years ago, and it had a 90 day warranty, and the problem only showed up with certain DVDs if I remember, and if memory serves it was four months old.

My point is, he said that Sony's whole attitude was: fark YOU.

as would most any other electronics company. that is why Best Buy makes a killing selling extended warranties. you can't expect to purchase an item, use it for 4 months, have it break and then expect a company to eat it. life doesn't work that way. hell, my original PS3 had the yellow light of death. it is a known issue, Sony is fully aware of it and what causes it. they certainly weren't going to fix it for free outside of warranty. they were happy to work on it, sure, but for like 150 bucks.

such is life.

frepnog: as would most any other electronics company. that is why Best Buy makes a killing selling extended warranties. you can't expect to purchase an item, use it for 4 months, have it break and then expect a company to eat it. life doesn't work that way. hell, my original PS3 had the yellow light of death. it is a known issue, Sony is fully aware of it and what causes it. they certainly weren't going to fix it for free outside of warranty. they were happy to work on it, sure, but for like 150 bucks.

I think there's a distinct difference between

1) No matter how good our quality control, some units will be bad, so we have a warranty system to account for those.

vs

2) Every single unit we shipped has a known defect from the factory

3) A known defect that we will deny exists.

lordargent: frepnog: as would most any other electronics company. that is why Best Buy makes a killing selling extended warranties. you can't expect to purchase an item, use it for 4 months, have it break and then expect a company to eat it. life doesn't work that way. hell, my original PS3 had the yellow light of death. it is a known issue, Sony is fully aware of it and what causes it. they certainly weren't going to fix it for free outside of warranty. they were happy to work on it, sure, but for like 150 bucks.

I think there's a distinct difference between

1) No matter how good our quality control, some units will be bad, so we have a warranty system to account for those.

vs

2) Every single unit we shipped has a known defect from the factory

3) A known defect that we will deny exists.

i guess that is why god made class action lawsuits. the world works the way the world works and companies are under no obligation to give people new merchandise or to fix old merchandise that is broken when the stated warranty is over.

sucks, but it is what it is. best thing to do is purchase your electronics from stores with liberal return policies and always save the original packing material and receipt. i have taken more than one POS back and gotten refunds after warranties had expired.

doglover: sno man: They have been selling crap for decades, on the reputation of the stuff from the 70's...

Actually, Sony products are usually farkin' good. My PS3 is AMAZING. Sony electronics like TVs and such do have awesome pictures and shelf lives.

But they like to lock all their shiat down and use proprietary formats, as far back as Betamax.


Sony understands engineering, but not consumers.

The last 2 tv's I've had were Sony. I bought the 2nd (flat panel) while the 32" tube Wega was still only a few years old. The 32" died within a month. The flat panel has been fixed 3 times.

While the picture quality was good for both, I won't be buying another Sony tv, and it has tainted all Sony products in my mind.

Znuh: Thanks to the huge influx of really, really bad capacitors flooding the electronics market, we're all reliving the start of the Solid State Electronics industry - as in when capacitors were 'new things'.

I have ancient electronics that run stupidly hot (Amps, etc.) that will still be here and fully operational long after I'm worm food. But a modern HDTV? Holy pants, I've never seen an industry across the board plagued with QC problems that ended (the first time) in 1949.

Have to wonder what else you're getting that's 'new' and filled with Chinese caps. Someone clearly forgot that solid state used to have a sense of permanence. Now you get to drop up to two grand, and throw it away eight months later.

Europe forcing lead free solder in electronics is also a big issue. They grow tin whiskers over time and / or crack and raise of the PCB. And because all of Europe requires it, lots of Chinese manufactures have completely changed over their production lines to the standard.

Now the PS3 (OG Phat's) heat dissipation system was a very poor design in of itself, but the tin solder just doesn't hold up either. It's the source of the YLOD problem. I haven't researched the RROD problem with MS, but remember hearing it was "heat related" and wouldn't be surprised if it's the same issue.

Capacitors, Sony had major issues with bad blue laser diodes, tin solder.

The Harvard/Chicago business model of cut every penny and give it to the CEO/Shareholders has infected everything. High quality electronics included. Screw the customers, especially since their wages have been dropping anyways.

frepnog:
I think there's a distinct difference between

1) No matter how good our quality control, some units will be bad, so we have a warranty system to account for those.

vs

2) Every single unit we shipped has a known defect from the factory

3) A known defect that we will deny exists.

i guess that is why god made class action lawsuits. the world works the way the world works and companies are under no obligation to give people new merchandise or to fix old merchandise that is broken when the stated warranty is over.

sucks, but it is what it is. best thing to do is purchase your electronics from stores with liberal return policies and always save the original packing material and receipt. i have taken more than one POS back and gotten refunds after warranties had expired.

I think Sonys using the their intentional status, along with the business friendly courts to get away with it. Plus, MS by far beat them in North America this gen, so why bother appeasing the few fans they have left.

MS had the same issues, but for some reason they at the 3 billion dollar cost to fix peoples RROD's.

Ultimately I think it came down to MS having the ability to do so and wanting to keep it's new found customer base, while Sony realizing that fixing the launch PS3 engineering and manufacturing issues would put them out of business. (Sony is pretty small in comparison)

There's no need to wonder why the slim was designed and released so soon after launch. The thing runs 30C cooler and uses quite a bit less power. My Launch PS3 easily could get up to 100-110C.

TyrantII: Znuh: Thanks to the huge influx of really, really bad capacitors flooding the electronics market, we're all reliving the start of the Solid State Electronics industry - as in when capacitors were 'new things'.

I have ancient electronics that run stupidly hot (Amps, etc.) that will still be here and fully operational long after I'm worm food. But a modern HDTV? Holy pants, I've never seen an industry across the board plagued with QC problems that ended (the first time) in 1949.

Have to wonder what else you're getting that's 'new' and filled with Chinese caps. Someone clearly forgot that solid state used to have a sense of permanence. Now you get to drop up to two grand, and throw it away eight months later.

Europe forcing lead free solder in electronics is also a big issue. They grow tin whiskers over time and / or crack and raise of the PCB. And because all of Europe requires it, lots of Chinese manufactures have completely changed over their production lines to the standard.

Now the PS3 (OG Phat's) heat dissipation system was a very poor design in of itself, but the tin solder just doesn't hold up either. It's the source of the YLOD problem. I haven't researched the RROD problem with MS, but remember hearing it was "heat related" and wouldn't be surprised if it's the same issue.

Capacitors, Sony had major issues with bad blue laser diodes, tin solder.

The Harvard/Chicago business model of cut every penny and give it to the CEO/Shareholders has infected everything. High quality electronics included. Screw the customers, especially since their wages have been dropping anyways.

it is pretty much the same issue. that is why baking the chips with a heat gun fixes the rrod, same reason you can pull the motherboard out of a YLOD PS3 and bake it at 400 degrees for 15 minutes and it will work again.

Yup, I know. Had to do it to get my data.

frepnog: i guess that is why god made class action lawsuits. the world works the way the world works and companies are under no obligation to give people new merchandise or to fix old merchandise that is broken when the stated warranty is over.

They're under no obligation to do so, but people remember customer disservice. And those sorts of things will lead you to a $6.4 billion loss.

That's something these old guard companies still haven't grasped. When you're the only show in town for something, more customer disservice will be accepted. But as soon as there are viable alternatives, customer disservice will not be tolerated as much, and if you want to stay in business, you have to get over yourself and treat customers fairly (vs milking them for all they have and screwing them over.

// if Microsoft had just said 'fark it' about the RRODs, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion about Sony's losses. But they didn't, they manned up and took a huge loss to fix the problem free of charge (less a few hiccups).

TyrantII: The Harvard/Chicago business model of cut every penny and give it to the CEO/Shareholders has infected everything. High quality electronics included. Screw the customers, especially since their wages have been dropping anyways.

Actually, around the time period those consoles were produced, there was a strong push in the electronics industry to remove hazardous materials from electronics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoHS

One key component was removing lead (in particular, leaded solder).

So new lead free solders were introduced, but since they were new, people were not fully aware of their long term performance. Bake temps needed to be changed. Hairline cracks could form over time, etc.

IEEE: Fatigue crack growth in lead-free solder joints

Lead Free Solder and Flex Cracking Failures in Ceramic Capacitors (PDF)

Point is, it wasn't an issue with the quality of parts, it was just a lack of long term testing of lead free alternatives industry wide. Especially in a gaming console where spaces are small and tolerances are tight.

Eh. Haven't bought much "new" Sony stuff in at least a decade... because all the "old" Sony stuff is still working. The tv got relocated to a bedroom when we bought a flatscreen; it's nearing 2 decades in age and still refuses to die. The VCR keeps it company. Stereo system got handed down to a cousin, given back to me when she got married, now handed down to my son. (He uses it to play my old records- he's recently discovered the Ramones.) There's an old tape player/radio that we still use in the garage from about 1980ish, and we've two "walkman" cassette/radio thingies that were bought in about 1985-1989; all have been dropped, sprayed with a hose, dunked in a pool... and are still eating batteries like nobody's business, and excellent for use when both the ipods have grown legs and walked off with my kids. The Playstation went to visit my mother and never came home; the PS2 joined it last year and the kids still use both when visiting. The PS3 is still doing fine, despite the boys' attempts to kill it. (It recently survived an encounter with a two liter of Big Red.)

Maybe they're making junk now and I've just been lucky enough not to buy any of it. From where I'm standing, they've done pretty well by me.

NO, your all missing what really happened. Sony made the "da vinci code" movie, and about 500 million Catholics took their business elsewhere. I'm amazed they are not doing worse then they are.

Pro Duo, Minidisc, Sony media interface, betamax, crvdisc, bluray, drm formats, etc

It's like they'll keep throwing crap against a wall to see what sticks. I'd rather not have a proprietary device/media foisted upon me against my will.

That, Sony, is why you're losing your ass. Quit wasting money on needless R&D and stick to developing quality products for formats already on the market.

lordargent: frepnog: as would most any other electronics company. that is why Best Buy makes a killing selling extended warranties. you can't expect to purchase an item, use it for 4 months, have it break and then expect a company to eat it. life doesn't work that way. hell, my original PS3 had the yellow light of death. it is a known issue, Sony is fully aware of it and what causes it. they certainly weren't going to fix it for free outside of warranty. they were happy to work on it, sure, but for like 150 bucks.

I think there's a distinct difference between

1) No matter how good our quality control, some units will be bad, so we have a warranty system to account for those.

vs

2) Every single unit we shipped has a known defect from the factory

3) A known defect that we will deny exists.

FINALLY someone gets my point, which I was apparently unable to make on my own.