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(MSNBC)   Zimmerman takes the law into his own hands. Again   (usnews.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 1081
    More: News, George Zimmerman, Greg Sonner, martin case, law license, Dean Martin, United States Department of Justice, special prosecutor  
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48975 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2012 at 7:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-10 09:49:55 PM  

ChuDogg: LasersHurt: Idiot accosts you > You are killed > he says it was self defense.

Not saying that's what happened here, of course, but that's the precedent created by this case and this law (well, it would be the precedent depending on how things shake out, you know what I mean.)


But you are saying that is what happened. You said it doesn't cut both ways. I just need some proof before agreeing that Martin was approached by a gun-wielding maniac, as the majority of the scenario we hear on the 911 call and it doesn't support that hypothesis at all. Just the very fact he was on the phone with 911 tends to disprove that allegation.


It's supposed that he might be an idiot, not a "gun-wielding maniac." And I'm not saying that I know for sure it happened that way, as evidenced by when I said "Not saying that's what happened here."
 
2012-04-10 09:50:58 PM  

LasersHurt: The eyewitness said they heard it, as in audibly, not visually, yes? So how can you or he be sure?


No, John says he saw Zimmerman calling for help while Martin was "beating him up".
 
2012-04-10 09:51:10 PM  
So is there anything to keep him from legally fleeing the country to somewhere without an extradition treaty with the US? Because at this point, he'd be dumb not to.
 
2012-04-10 09:51:27 PM  

osafer: I'm not racist, I just say racist things? That is like saying I know you like farking young children, but your not a pervert. You can't have one without the other...... And unless you are saying everyone in the media are black you may want to reread my statement... If you don't think Al and Jessie are some of the biggest racebaiters in this country you are being dishonest with yourself....


First of all, you can totally not be a racist, yet say racist things. Happens all the time.

Second, let's back up and accept your premise momentarily. Why? What is the purpose of stirring up racial discord? What's to gain, for whom? What's the endgame?
 
2012-04-10 09:51:50 PM  

ChuDogg: That's very, very, good advice.

Is it legally required?

No.


But you can't claim self defense if you go after people and are not a law enforcement officer.
 
2012-04-10 09:52:02 PM  

LasersHurt: The rest of your post is pure assumption, which I guess is okay if it's YOU doing it.


At least I say when I'm making assumptions rather than passing them off as facts like you and your mob.
 
2012-04-10 09:52:07 PM  

9beers: LasersHurt: The eyewitness said they heard it, as in audibly, not visually, yes? So how can you or he be sure?

No, John says he saw Zimmerman calling for help while Martin was "beating him up".


Can you provide a link? This is the first I've heard of this.
 
2012-04-10 09:52:18 PM  
i262.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-10 09:52:29 PM  
For you FarkCSIers on here, If I remember correctly from the police report linked on Fark when the police approached Martin's body they found his hands under his body. If he was on top of Zimmerman and shot, and then rolled off of Zimmerman I would think he would be with his hands out to the side or on top of him. I can't see how rolling someone off of you would get their hands under them.
 
2012-04-10 09:52:30 PM  

Yogimus: keithgabryelski: not have a gun

O.o


If you're wandering around your neighborhood carrying a gun, actively looking for people to confront, then it's fairly inevitable that you're going to kill somebody. Because only psychos do that. Not even the gun-nut retards who constitute your average trailerpark/republican voting district normally walk around in public carrying a gun. Because it's generally accepted that you're a lunatic if you do that kind of thing. And surprise surprise, Zimmerman managed to kill somebody.
 
2012-04-10 09:54:10 PM  

9beers: LasersHurt: The rest of your post is pure assumption, which I guess is okay if it's YOU doing it.

At least I say when I'm making assumptions rather than passing them off as facts like you and your mob.


You can find a half dozen spots in this thread alone where I say I'm not sure of the facts and am making assumptions or recollections.
 
2012-04-10 09:54:33 PM  

Lsherm: Super Chronic: And I'm not here to rush to judgment. All I want is to see the case go forward.

That's a rush to judgement. It's entirely possible that once all the evidence is reviewed, an arrest won't be warranted, the case is dropped, and there is no "forward." Half the country is going to be mighty upset if that happens because they haven't even entertained the possibility that Zimmerman was wrong to get out of his car but justified in shooting Martin. They can't charge Zimmerman with getting out of his car.

And before we get into the racial herpa-derpa doo that's inevitably coming, I fully believe if Zimmerman had just stayed in the goddamn car Martin would still be alive.


We seem to be operating on very different definitions of "judgment." I mean "judgment" in the legal and plain-English sense, whereas you seem to be using some alternative meaning.
 
2012-04-10 09:54:38 PM  

spongeboob: For you FarkCSIers on here, If I remember correctly from the police report linked on Fark when the police approached Martin's body they found his hands under his body. If he was on top of Zimmerman and shot, and then rolled off of Zimmerman I would think he would be with his hands out to the side or on top of him. I can't see how rolling someone off of you would get their hands under them.


That's just how he rolled.
 
2012-04-10 09:54:49 PM  

Sarsin: ChuDogg: That's very, very, good advice.

Is it legally required?

No.

But you can't claim self defense if you go after people and are not a law enforcement officer.


In Florida you can.
 
2012-04-10 09:55:21 PM  

LasersHurt: Nobody knows if Zimmerman yelled for help, they know someone did.


"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Link (new window)
 
2012-04-10 09:55:24 PM  

osafer: And unless you are saying everyone in the media are black you may want to reread my statement


Also, looking back, you're right. I saw the Jackson/Sharpton thing, and since the type of post I'm taking about has happened a dozen times in every thread about this I jumped the gun. Mea Culpa, canem.
 
2012-04-10 09:56:06 PM  

osafer: If you don't think Al and Jessie are some of the biggest racebaiters in this country you are being dishonest with yourself need to turn in your Hood and Torch, because Klavern Local #356 just doesn't think you're their kind of Klansman any more...


I love the way a certain kind of idiot (like, say the ones in this thread) love to bring up a couple of silly things that Jackson or Sharpton did over 20 years ago to justify their own innate racism regarding the Zimmerman/Martin case.
 
2012-04-10 09:56:22 PM  

EighthundredmillionthFarker: spongeboob: For you FarkCSIers on here, If I remember correctly from the police report linked on Fark when the police approached Martin's body they found his hands under his body. If he was on top of Zimmerman and shot, and then rolled off of Zimmerman I would think he would be with his hands out to the side or on top of him. I can't see how rolling someone off of you would get their hands under them.

That's just how he rolled.


Which one rolled like dat.
 
2012-04-10 09:56:44 PM  

ChuDogg: LasersHurt: Nobody knows if Zimmerman yelled for help, they know someone did.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Link (new window)


Thanks for the link.
 
2012-04-10 09:57:25 PM  

Ender's: Perhaps I have too much faith in the criminal justice system to at least bring someone to trial. My bad.


Evidently the case for murder is weak or they would have arrested him already.

/duh
 
2012-04-10 09:57:26 PM  
The question for me remains "Why did they let him lay in the morgue for three days and not answer his phone"
 
2012-04-10 09:59:05 PM  
He fled because he's either guilty or so close to being guilty that one false twitch would set off the "guilty bomb."
 
2012-04-10 09:59:20 PM  

spongeboob: For you FarkCSIers on here, If I remember correctly from the police report linked on Fark when the police approached Martin's body they found his hands under his body. If he was on top of Zimmerman and shot, and then rolled off of Zimmerman I would think he would be with his hands out to the side or on top of him. I can't see how rolling someone off of you would get their hands under them.


I would think that you'd reach for the place that you were shot.
 
2012-04-10 09:59:28 PM  

ChuDogg: LasersHurt: Nobody knows if Zimmerman yelled for help, they know someone did.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Link (new window)


Yes, and when the lady called 911 at 7:16:11 there was screaming already occurring and it continued for almost a full minute.
 
2012-04-10 09:59:35 PM  

The Coroner of Munchkinland: Yet the entire issue of zimmerman's culpability is his harrassment of martin based only on his suspicion and assumptions circumscribed by his paranoia bolstered by the rash of breakins. After all he said martin looked like he was on drugs (based on what?) and that he was doing something with his hands....more than likely pulling his trousers up. Now, he was paranoid, pursued a person for no good reason, an attempted to act like an officer of the law. Now he may not get a
deliberate murder charge, but by most statutes this is at least voluntary manslaughter.



The main point I've been making is that the intent of Zimmerman on the 911 call shows somebody who was attempting to report a suspicious person to the police. From what we hear on the 911 call, we don't hear anything that suggests he is attempting to catch up and pursue Martin, Martin could have easily ran home during that time, and Zimmerman knows it. Zimmerman assumed he was already by the "rear entrance" by the time he lost him. (hell Zimmerman could have run up and down the alley two or three times over in the amount of time Zimmerman remained on the line with 911. )

Intent is very important in the case. And there has been nothing but conjecture that Zimmerman's intent was to capture Martin. The idea that Zimmerman continued to persue Martin goes against the available evidence: we know where the scene of the altercation occurred.
 
2012-04-10 10:00:09 PM  

ChuDogg: LasersHurt: Nobody knows if Zimmerman yelled for help, they know someone did.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Link (new window)


Why yes I am going to believe a report as totally accurate that has the age of Zimmerman as 3 years younger than all other reports. Do you have anywhere else where John says the same thing?
 
2012-04-10 10:00:18 PM  

Yogimus: keithgabryelski: not have a gun

O.o


it raised the threat level and stakes in this situation -- a situation that needn't have been.

I can't tell if Martin, the child, felt threatened by a figure following him that was carrying a gun (i don't know if the gun was drawn or not) -- but ...

zimmerman killed an unarmed child that was walking home -- would that have happened if he wasn't carrying? probably not.

What is the worse that would have happened if no gun was involved? a scuffle or talking to? probably nothing more -- and probably nothing less than a man talking to a child.

Would either have been killed? probably not -- even if there was a fight.

it really comes down to pretty poor choices on zimmerman's side and a pressure situation on the kids side.
 
2012-04-10 10:00:26 PM  

LasersHurt: osafer: I'm not racist, I just say racist things? That is like saying I know you like farking young children, but your not a pervert. You can't have one without the other...... And unless you are saying everyone in the media are black you may want to reread my statement... If you don't think Al and Jessie are some of the biggest racebaiters in this country you are being dishonest with yourself....

First of all, you can totally not be a racist, yet say racist things. Happens all the time.


You can also make a valid point, to which the counterargument is "Its racist because I don't like it".

Second, let's back up and accept your premise momentarily. Why? What is the purpose of stirring up racial discord? What's to gain, for whom? What's the endgame?

Racial discord is HUGE for political capital. You really MUST realize this. It stirs up people, and it gets you VOTES. It gets you credibility (Sharpton/jackson) which translates into more access to politicians, and can generate more votes.
 
2012-04-10 10:00:34 PM  
Time for the Justified season finale.
 
2012-04-10 10:00:50 PM  
and

LasersHurt: osafer: I'm not racist, I just say racist things? That is like saying I know you like farking young children, but your not a pervert. You can't have one without the other...... And unless you are saying everyone in the media are black you may want to reread my statement... If you don't think Al and Jessie are some of the biggest racebaiters in this country you are being dishonest with yourself....

First of all, you can totally not be a racist, yet say racist things. Happens all the time.

Second, let's back up and accept your premise momentarily. Why? What is the purpose of stirring up racial discord? What's to gain, for whom? What's the endgame?


Just like the KKK and White Supremacy these idiots and their ilk (black panthers) appeal to the lowest common denominator of their base by playing on their fear of people being different. Most intelligent people in the world do not care what color, creed or sexual orientation you are, but these racebaiters on both side are afraid their chosen careers will be flushed if they don't keep us divided.
 
2012-04-10 10:01:00 PM  

EighthundredmillionthFarker: spongeboob: For you FarkCSIers on here, If I remember correctly from the police report linked on Fark when the police approached Martin's body they found his hands under his body. If he was on top of Zimmerman and shot, and then rolled off of Zimmerman I would think he would be with his hands out to the side or on top of him. I can't see how rolling someone off of you would get their hands under them.

That's just how he rolled.


Oh god. You just laugh-raped me.
 
2012-04-10 10:02:10 PM  

Mavent: Yogimus: keithgabryelski: not have a gun

O.o

If you're wandering around your neighborhood carrying a gun, actively looking for people to confront, then it's fairly inevitable that you're going to kill somebody. Because only psychos do that. Not even the gun-nut retards who constitute your average trailerpark/republican voting district normally walk around in public carrying a gun. Because it's generally accepted that you're a lunatic if you do that kind of thing. And surprise surprise, Zimmerman managed to kill somebody.


....Anyone ever accuse you of being racist?
 
2012-04-10 10:02:14 PM  
*Sniff sniff*

Smells like Zimmerman's interested in an insanity plea down the road.
 
2012-04-10 10:02:18 PM  

Sarsin: "Pursuit" does not imply "speed". 2:30 on your little picture states he was instructed to stop. Given where the altercation happened he kept going. That is pursuit in my book.


img812.imageshack.us

Really? It was about 10 feet. The altercation took place just beyond that tree. And was atleast 2 minutes later. 2 minutes, to move that distance. That's the farthest known distance we have of Zimmerman.

Have you been checked for autism?
 
2012-04-10 10:03:07 PM  

Drubell: Smells like Zimmerman's interested in an insanity plea down the road.


Was thinking lawsuits.
 
2012-04-10 10:03:17 PM  

9beers: spongeboob: For you FarkCSIers on here, If I remember correctly from the police report linked on Fark when the police approached Martin's body they found his hands under his body. If he was on top of Zimmerman and shot, and then rolled off of Zimmerman I would think he would be with his hands out to the side or on top of him. I can't see how rolling someone off of you would get their hands under them.

I would think that you'd reach for the place that you were shot.


If you were reaching for where you were shot would you then roll onto your hands?
 
2012-04-10 10:03:19 PM  
Zimmerman, why don't you just kill yourself and say it was in self defense
 
2012-04-10 10:03:39 PM  
This guy's creating a web site and what's on it speaks volumes about his character and that he truly believes his way was righteous. Further proof that he might've spent many a hour fantasizing about the time when he could dole out justice in the true Zimmerman fashion.

You don't spend that much time doing lone patrols and make that many LEO calls w/o fantasizing about the day it all comes together and you show ALL those people your hard work keeping them safe was indeed a valid and worthy noble even cause.
 
2012-04-10 10:03:44 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: He fled because he's either guilty or so close to being guilty that one false twitch would set off the "guilty bomb."


Or he's put two and two together and realized that he's going to jail for murdering someone. Zimmerman also made any sort of defense that much harder by running. Even if he's not being charged with something, he has made his life infinitely worse. Then again, it sounds like he's some pathetic psychopath who just needed a reason to put a bullet into anybody.
 
2012-04-10 10:03:54 PM  

Bill the Cat: All of you arguing about guilt / fault are amusing me to no end.

You have no control, it us up to the justice system. Of course that is unless it does go to trial and you get selected as a juror, then of course you have control.

As far as the racism is concerned: duh. It'll never go away, it will always exist to some extent.

As far as the riots to come: duh. racists will find a reason to riot no matter the outcome.

Let's take the fluoride out of the water supply and replace it with Prozac. Chill.


Let's see if I can summarize: "I love your impotent rage, it amuses me, you should realize how powerless you are to right the wrongs you perceive in the world. Ha ha, you guys should see the look on your faces when you think your moral outrage against unjust laws and actions is somehow appropriate. Why aren't you dead inside, like me?"

Did I get it right?

The sad part is I don't even think you're a troll, you're just an empty shell of a human being and you don't even realize.
 
2012-04-10 10:04:07 PM  
Yeah, the dude can't be in a good place mentally. Even on the assumption that the shooting was indeed validly self-defense, which actually seems most likely, killing someone that later turned out to be an unarmed kid can't be good for your mental stability. Most people feel pretty bad after even running over a dog.
 
2012-04-10 10:05:04 PM  

LasersHurt: Mea Culpa, canem


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-10 10:05:12 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: 9beers: Police report - Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head and received treatment from paramedics

Eyewitness - Zimmerman was yelling for help while being beaten up by Martin

Video - Obvious wounds to Zimmerman's head and nose

Funeral home dude - "I didn't see any marks on his knuckles and hands"

The Mob - "See, proof that Martin didn't assault anybody!"

"Eyewitness - Zimmerman Someone was yelling for help while being beaten up by Martin the other guy"
"Video - Non Obvious wounds to Zimmerman's head and nose"

/if Zimmerman was in his car, how did Martin come to be able to break Zimmermans nose and be on top of him?


The injuries on Zim were consistent with vigorous fapping, the kind where a racist realizes he's about to kill a black boy
 
2012-04-10 10:05:43 PM  

spongeboob: Why yes I am going to believe a report as totally accurate that has the age of Zimmerman as 3 years younger than all other reports. Do you have anywhere else where John says the same thing?

27 Feb 2012


This was one of the first reports. Literally the very next morning.

You're going to say the witness was planted because the reporter rushed a few details out? Yeah, that doesn't indicate cognitive dissonance. Not at all.
 
2012-04-10 10:06:14 PM  

g4lt: YouPeopleAreCrazy: 9beers: Police report - Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head and received treatment from paramedics

Eyewitness - Zimmerman was yelling for help while being beaten up by Martin

Video - Obvious wounds to Zimmerman's head and nose

Funeral home dude - "I didn't see any marks on his knuckles and hands"

The Mob - "See, proof that Martin didn't assault anybody!"

"Eyewitness - Zimmerman Someone was yelling for help while being beaten up by Martin the other guy"
"Video - Non Obvious wounds to Zimmerman's head and nose"

/if Zimmerman was in his car, how did Martin come to be able to break Zimmermans nose and be on top of him?

The injuries on Zim were consistent with vigorous fapping, the kind where a racist realizes he's about to kill a black boy


Why's it always gotta be the black boy?
 
2012-04-10 10:07:18 PM  
maybe this will finally end the n-word usage (in a negative light) once and for all.

treyvon. the last real n-word
 
2012-04-10 10:07:31 PM  

ChuDogg: spongeboob: Why yes I am going to believe a report as totally accurate that has the age of Zimmerman as 3 years younger than all other reports. Do you have anywhere else where John says the same thing?

27 Feb 2012

This was one of the first reports. Literally the very next morning.

You're going to say the witness was planted because the reporter rushed a few details out? Yeah, that doesn't indicate cognitive dissonance. Not at all.


Oh, and, "Johns" 911 call used to be on the sanford website. Unfortunately, it looks like the prosecuter took them all down. Im sure they're floating around somewhere.
 
2012-04-10 10:07:56 PM  

Kaiku: So is there anything to keep him from legally fleeing the country to somewhere without an extradition treaty with the US? Because at this point, he'd be dumb not to.


If he was looking at life in prison or the electric chair, perhaps. I don't see that happening though. They just don't have a strong enough case to convict him of that.

As someone else said, at the most murder 2 or manslaughter with a minimal sentence. If they *had* evidence they thought they could nail him with, they'd have done it by now.

He'd be an idiot to flee the country. More likely if...that's IF he's charged and found guilty, he'll do some time then get out, write a book, get a job with Fox News, and end up rich.
 
2012-04-10 10:08:11 PM  

MagSeven: EighthundredmillionthFarker: spongeboob: For you FarkCSIers on here, If I remember correctly from the police report linked on Fark when the police approached Martin's body they found his hands under his body. If he was on top of Zimmerman and shot, and then rolled off of Zimmerman I would think he would be with his hands out to the side or on top of him. I can't see how rolling someone off of you would get their hands under them.

That's just how he rolled.

Oh god. You just laugh-raped me.


Gracias... that's how I roll...
 
2012-04-10 10:08:15 PM  

ChuDogg: Kuroshin: All of those good questions, none of which address the fact that pursuit was given where none was required.

I'll keep saying it: Unless you are an LEO, you should never pursue. Ever. Report last-known location and GTFO. Look with your eyes, not with your feet.

That's very, very, good advice.

Is it legally required?

No.


sure, but if you don't follow the advice -- hell if you just get out of your car and follow a child around a corner -- and then get into an altercation where you shoot and kill a child walking home from the store, don't be surprised if people wonder why you aren't in jail.

Zimmerman was not prepared to investigate the situation safely. he put himself, the child (whom he killed), and anyone else in bullet range in danger.

this is exactly why we have trained police that we call via 911 to handle situations like this so 1) the don't get out of hand, 2) danger is minimized.

Zimmerman at best initiated the confrontation that killed a child.
The other option is he hunted down and murdered a child.
 
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