Voiceofreason01: Motorists pay for roads through fuel taxes and in many States personal property taxes on the vehicles themselves. Cyclists take up space on the road and are often ignorant of (or ignore) traffic laws and in my experience are almost always inconsiderate of the other vehicles on the road; it may be unpractical to ask cyclists to pay for use of public streets but it isn't necessarily unreasonable.

1. Cyclists also pay sales tax on their bikes
2. Cyclists are also almost always motor vehicle owners, and as such pay those taxes/fees as well
3. The 'wear and tear' a cyclist puts on the road is orders of magnitude less that even the smallest car
4. Show me a motorist that didn't break a law today, and I'll show you a motorist that didn't drive today
5. If you think that motor vehicle fees and taxes fully fund the road system, you are sadly mistaken.

If you want cyclists to pay for road use, how should the fee schedule go? In many states, it is by weight, value, horsepower.
Fine...here's my $0.10 annual fee for my bike.

halfof33:
"So after you get plowed by some road-raging motorist for being the douche you are, you should hope that the guy delivering the vent needed to keep you breathing doesn't get stuck behind one of your contemporaries."

Hard to argue with that, farking Socrates level logic there, Speedy.

Graveyards are full of people who insisted they had the right of way, yet lacked the inertia or mass to back that up.

When I'm on the motorcycle I don't argue with anything larger than I am.

I feel like half of our problem is that we hardly ever make it possible to walk anywhere. All the farking time we have stores that are 10 yards apart but they're designed with the expectation that every single visitor will come by car. The only way to walk between them is by hopping a low cinderblock wall, cutting through a shrub garden and then dashing across the parking lot.

/And you get funny looks when you do this
//English friend with me thought it was as weird as I do

When I was a kid, my friends and I would play outside all day. I would go home around noon for a fruit salad and sandwich, then gtfo and go back to playing until the sun set and dinner was served.

/no one in my family is fat

She comes in colors everywhere: A honk is not safe, it's loud and startling and can cause one to lose concentration, balance, and control.

If you are unable to safely handle your vehicle, you are obligated to dismount and walk.

HotWingConspiracy: People almost lost their minds when Bloomberg closed a few roads for pedestrian-only traffic, and that's in a city full of walkers.

Some people here lost their minds when the city of Madison started plowing the major bike paths. They are heavily used all winter, although not as heavily as during warmer months. I can't tell you how many times I've been at work the day after a snowstorm and nearly everyone that drives didn't come in, while the bikers and walkers all made it. We've got tons of bikers and walkers around here, and people will complain about all the taxpayer money spent on bike paths, then in the next sentence complain about traffic congestion. It takes me 15 minutes to drive to work during rush hour, 20 minutes to walk, less than 10 to bike. I prefer the walk. I'm kinda rambling right now.

Get off your asses, humans are built to walk and run.

Damn straight we are.

Few years ago we drove to Orlando for a convention. Park. Get to the 'shuttle hub'. There's a huge crowd standing there, all of them complaining the last shuttle had been too full to get on, and it had been at least 30 minutes since it had left. We stood there for 10 minutes with no sign of a shuttle. Finally I ask: "Umm... how far IS it to the part of the center this is being held?" and someone went "Oh, far! I had to walk there earlier... close to half a mile I'd say!"

I stare at him a minute. My husband and I glance at each other, laugh, and start walking. A few minutes later some others sheepishly start following.

It took MAYBE 10 minutes to walk there. Did I mention the walk there isn't even on the road, but through a series of air-conditioned tunnels connecting the buildings of the convention center?

/funny enough, we're both fat. Go figure
//Maybe being pretentious makes you fat...

I think how much you walk has a lot to do with where you live.

Having lived in Boston and Florida I can say there is a big difference which . In Boston I could walk or take the T everywhere, I would go days without using my car. However while in Florida I had to drive everywhere, it was all just so far apart (and so damn hot). Its how we have designed our towns and cities as we progressed away from New England. You go to the midwest its a lot like Florida, everything is separated by miles and miles, unless you want to spend all day traveling to and from Walmart you have to drive.

Where these people live encourages sedentary lifestyles, its easier to stay in shape if you live in large cities with readily available public transit; its easy to get fat when you live in the middle of bum-fark nowhere.

/TL;DR Not really a problem

Wall-E got a lot about us right

Uchiha_Cycliste: The weather is SPECTACULAR

Tulsa's weather is spectacular. LA doesn't have weather.

My girlfriend was training a new guy at her work last winter. He was riding his bike home to his wife and two small kids. Here's a picture of his bike at the corner of Ridge Route and Serrano in Lake Forest:

YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: The fees associated with ownership vs. the "fees" that maintain roads (ie. gasoline taxes) are the issue. If you think you can have city roads maintained to your liking by only a yearly registration for a car you're full of shiat. But by all means continue to use a resource that you don't really pay for and biatch about those that do.

Let me reiterate:
Few adults that ride bicycles are bicycle only. They also own and drive cars. And so, pay those same gas taxes and ownership fees.

Let me spell this out for you since you're too dense to figure it out.

Car Registration: ~150$
Gas Tax: Federal 17 cents, State ~40 cents per gallon.

How many gallons are burned on average in a week? A quick google search is ~600. So lets say 300$ a year in taxes that go to the government and used for roads etc.

Riding a fixie enjoying the road others paid for: priceless unless you pay a registration. Wwhile you're at it obey the rules of the road or you lose your biking license just like everyone else.

/Blow a red light get a ticket mailed to your house. Whether it's a bike, unicycle or automobile.

Uchiha_Cycliste: This text is now purple: Uchiha_Cycliste: When I ride, I obey all laws and keep myself safe. It's how I've ridden at least a 100K miles in traffic and never been hit. On my off time, I help EVERYONE I know (and some I don't) to wrench, build bikes, give them bikes, teach them to ride and how to commute safely. You are barking up the wrong tree here.

I wish you luck. As a pedestrian, I've been nearly taken out by more bicyclists than motorists, despite the vastly superior number of motorists. Urban cyclists are the worst combination of entitlement and incompetence.

I've found the worst are college students, but they usually mature a little bit once they leave the protective bubble of a campus and it's surrounding town. What you also need to remember is that for every asshat you see flaunting the law-breaking riding style there were 10 other cyclists you didn't see because they play the game properly. It's truly a situation where the 10% give the other 90% a bad name.

That's nice and all, but I have a problem at 1000x the frequency of encounter than I do with cars.

So even considering the 90% rule, bicyclists are about 100 times worse. Even that rate rises dramatically if I include bicyclists in spandex. Let's just say I've never seen automobiles blatantly disregard red lights and stop signs like I regularly see bicyclists doing -- to flat out echelons riding through groups of pedestrians crossing at a crosswalk.

halfof33:

lulz, you drive a coke truck or something Road Rage? Because I don't believe what you wrote for one second.

You've never heard of blood runners or organ runners?

Uchiha_Cycliste: inner ted: Uchiha_Cycliste: inner ted: YouPeopleAreCrazy: inner ted: the keyword here is BETWEEN. it's not the one way street that most cyclists would like to believe.

I'd not agree with your word 'most', but I'd go along with 'many'.
And if Fark comments are any indication, the reverse is also true.

sidewalk
honk
speed limit
etc, etc

You only notice the asshole cyclists, because they stick in your mind. The safe, legal ones you never even see.

while i appreciate your take, i can personally say that i actually applaud safe riders. ask my wife. she hates the safety honk as she is afraid of biker rage, so i have to employ it when i'm driving without her. i often point out bikers that are safely using the sidewalk or the bazillion miles of bike lanes in this city (except when they ride 2 or 3 abreast, spilling out of the bike lane) as a breath of fresh air.

not that many may care - but i commuted via bike for 5 years in this town, without having to resort to riding major roads with no bike lanes. it can be done, most just choose not to, almost going out of their way to be in the way.

For numerous reasons, sidewalks are INCREDIBLY dangerous for cyclists. Especially at speeds in excess or 20-25 MPH. I honestly can't think of any situations that warrant being on a sidewalk outside of a momentary fleeing from vehicular collision. Cyclists should never, ever, EVER be on sidewalks.

lulz

the % of cyclists that ever reach, let alone maintain an average speed of 20-25 is so little as to be a non concern. that is a major part of my argument: most people riding in the street crank out a pace akin to a brisk walk, impeding traffic and being a general danger to themselves and everyone else.

which is why i'm left with the very real 'safety honk' and i encourage everyone else to do the same. if you just absolutely have to be on parade in the street, impeding the normal flow of traffic, then this is the safest way to pass.

and again: if a car horn impacts you as a ri ...

your entire reasoning for not using a legal place to ride (sidewalk) is similar to mine for why you shouldn't be on every damn road. it's not safe. yes, you have the right legally to be in the road, just as you do the sidewalk. but you are CHOOSING to be out in the road. but that isn't good enough is it??

you refuse to share. that is the key point here. you could use any number of alternate routes that have bike lanes or far less traffic, or the sidewalk. but no, you need to "take the lane" right??? holding up traffic for miles while you plod along willfully ignorant of all the problems you are creating.

kind of seems like something a "selfish asshole" would do.

I had some relatives stay at my house in a DC suburb, three adults, two teens, and three younger kids. Jesus H. Christ, kids/teens today are so freakin' lazy. These kids were athletic and in shape, just lazy as hell. My house is 1/4 mile from the subway, 1/8 mi from a large shopping/dining area, parks everywhere, and the only place they were willing to walk to was the coffee shop a block away. I also noticed there are virtually no kids in parks between the ages of 7-18. Even the younger kids you'll only ever see in the actual playground, never hiking or riding a bike. I take my kids hiking, turning over rocks to find bugs and salamanders, fishing, climb hills, all the stuff I used to do and we never see anyone except the occasional middle aged guy. I have a boat moored near Ocean City and I offered to take the family ocean fishing for the day, nope, too much work they said. Asked if they wanted to take the subway to DC and do some sightseeing...nope. They sat there on their phones and played ps3 for hours. I asked them if they've read any good books lately...nope, but they all saw some "really great" movies (which actually are crappy movies, they just don't know better because that's all they're used to watching).

halfof33: inner ted: if you actually countered anything worth noting, i'd be happy to give you a tip of the hat. but you haven't. you've become confused. you may need to wear a helmet more often.

show me where o where i advocated running anyone off the road???? just cause it offends you at the thought of having to share the road, doesn't mean you get to call for injury or damage of people or property.

grow up little brat. adults aren't impressed with how long you can hold your breath in an attempt to get your way.

SAFETY HONK! HONK!

/listen sport, if you are going to get butt hurt when someone calls you out on your smart ass trolling, then you really need to grow a farking pair.

here's the thing tiger, you may think i'm joking about my 'safety honk', that it's just grand trolling. it's not. it's the only way to deal with an impossible situation.
if you really think that i'm going to idle behind some dipshiat giving it all they are worth on their ultra hip fixie and managing a whopping 8 mph as i try to get to work or anywhere else, then you are the one suffering from a mad case of ass-hurty.
since you & them just have to be on parade on every street, no matter how ill advised it is (lacking a shoulder or bike lane) then i have to figure a way past your self important ass.

the safety honk is the best way i know how to do that. if a car horn is enough to send you careening out of control, then you aren't in full control of your vehicle and shouldn't be on the road way to begin with.

sorry that crashes your perfect world.

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Try 100$ freeloader or get on the sidewalk. (except where it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk, where in that case you can get off your bike and walk)

Freeloader? Apparently you missed the line:
"2. Cyclists are also almost always motor vehicle owners, and as such pay those taxes/fees as well"

But you go ahead with your self-righteous self. We will continue to point and laugh.

/"we" as in pretty much everyone else on the planet

Jim from Saint Paul: CheekyMonkey: Jim from Saint Paul: So Fark, am I allowed to dislike in when some of these sons-o-biatches use their bicycle on roads where there are no marked bike lanes? You know, like they treat the lane like they are a motorcycle or something?

Because I *REALLY* dislike it when they do that.

/If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

Clearly, you are an idiot. A bicycle is a road vehicle, and in most places, it is illegal to ride one on the sidewalk. This does not apply to small children's bikes with 12" or smaller diameter wheels.

Clearly you are a pleasent person to be around. Thank you for your input and I wish you the best.

Re-read your original post, where you come across as an entitled prick, unwilling to share the road with other lawful road vehicles just because they cannot go the MAXIMUM allowable speed, and then re-consider who is a "pleasent" (sic) person to be around.

\tired of arrogant assholes who are ignorant of the law

inner ted: She comes in colors everywhere: inner ted: Jim from Saint Paul: So Fark, am I allowed to dislike in when some of these sons-o-biatches use their bicycle on roads where there are no marked bike lanes? You know, like they treat the lane like they are a motorcycle or something?

Because I *REALLY* dislike it when they do that.

/If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

you will loose your shiat if you ever come to portland, or. it's beyond stupid. some dipshiat taking their sweet ass time meandering down the middle of the street holding up traffic for blocks & blocks. & if you dare to honk, you will be on the vicious end of hipster douche rage. how dare you try and make them conform to society and it's clocks. that's way to mainstream of you.

/i've developed the "safety honk" -- for safety.
// the lulz induced by hipster rage at my honking for safety is priceless.

We (on bikes) are not in a hermetically sealed metal cage and we can hear you behind us. You have a loud motor. We can also often smell you behind us. We know you're there.

A honk is not safe, it's loud and startling and can cause one to lose concentration, balance, and control.

A honk for lulz is dangerous.

Don't be a dick.

omg thanks for the laughs. really. i hope you live in my city so i can safely pass you as you insist on clogging traffic instead of using the plethora of side streets or (god forbid) the dam sidewalk.

i am curious if your sanctimony weighs you down when you ride.

and since you can't really read well... i said i honk for safety as i pass your holier than thou ass.

the lulz are for your shaking fist and forum rage afterwards.

Just like at everything else, you have failed miserably at not being a dick.

This text is now purple: She comes in colors everywhere: A honk is not safe, it's loud and startling and can cause one to lose concentration, balance, and control.

If you are unable to safely handle your vehicle, you are obligated to dismount and walk.

Let's see you drive with someone suddenly and unexpectedly screaming in your ear.

When I first got interstitial lung disease, and told the pulmo I was having trouble walking up stairs, the man said "That's okay, lots of places have elevators."
/Not joking
/Fired him. Second pulmo understands that my not being able to walk everywhere now is a quality of life PROBLEM.

I was talking with a friend a few days ago.

We both spend a minimum of 2.5 hours commuting every day so that we can spend 8 hours behind a desk inside a cube.

Our legs are vestigial at this point.
Thalidomide babies were proto-humans of the 22nd century.

Jim from Saint Paul: So Fark, am I allowed to dislike in when some of these sons-o-biatches use their bicycle on roads where there are no marked bike lanes? You know, like they treat the lane like they are a motorcycle or something?

Because I *REALLY* dislike it when they do that.

/If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

Clearly, you are an idiot. A bicycle is a road vehicle, and in most places, it is illegal to ride one on the sidewalk. This does not apply to small children's bikes with 12" or smaller diameter wheels.

Rapmaster2000: ihatedumbpeople:

He's right...summers here (central VA) get pretty damned hot, they 'seem' hotter than the summers we had while I was in Georgia (bout a decade ago). mid-upper 90s, humidity through the roof...egads. Play outside in that for long and you better take a break, get some water, etc. Heat stroke is no joke.

No, he's not "right". He's not talking about his two year old playing around. He's saying he can't put a two year old on the back of a bike because the child would literally die from being out of the air conditioning. As if women in Texas didn't carry children on their back while picking cotton (black and white) for 150 years before everyone lived in a cul-de-sac outside of Austin.

I get it, the heat is uncomfortable, but it's not deadly for a child to be in the shade in a Central Virginia summer now any more than it was for the previous 400 years.

didn't read the whole post...but yeah, that's not going to kill your kid. I'm talking about playing outside in the sun...when it's upper 90s with sky high humidity. no one is fortunate enough to have that much shade...heck, anyone can sit in the shade all day and not die from it.

footshot: I was lucky enough to be in Uganda last year, it's pretty much on the equator, gets quite warm. Didn't seem to stop people walking.

True...but take those Ugandans...give them AC for a year. Where they work, where they shop, where they eat, where they live...THEN throw them back out in that heat. Heat is different when you've never known anything else.

OK, just so I know I'm not just having a nightmare:

We live in a country where people eat themselves out of the ability to walk.

Seriously, we live in a country where people eat until they lose the ability to move on their own without the assistance of a machine.

Just checking.

This text is now purple: Uchiha_Cycliste: When I ride, I obey all laws and keep myself safe. It's how I've ridden at least a 100K miles in traffic and never been hit. On my off time, I help EVERYONE I know (and some I don't) to wrench, build bikes, give them bikes, teach them to ride and how to commute safely. You are barking up the wrong tree here.

I wish you luck. As a pedestrian, I've been nearly taken out by more bicyclists than motorists, despite the vastly superior number of motorists. Urban cyclists are the worst combination of entitlement and incompetence.

Imagine those same people driving cars. The entitlement and incompetence don't go away.

I wonder what the weight limit on this continent is... Maybe one day we'll exceed it and sink into the ocean like Atlantis.

/wishful thinking
//enjoy your burrito

Uchiha_Cycliste: When I ride, I obey all laws and keep myself safe. It's how I've ridden at least a 100K miles in traffic and never been hit. On my off time, I help EVERYONE I know (and some I don't) to wrench, build bikes, give them bikes, teach them to ride and how to commute safely. You are barking up the wrong tree here.

I wish you luck. As a pedestrian, I've been nearly taken out by more bicyclists than motorists, despite the vastly superior number of motorists. Urban cyclists are the worst combination of entitlement and incompetence.

inner ted: Jim from Saint Paul: So Fark, am I allowed to dislike in when some of these sons-o-biatches use their bicycle on roads where there are no marked bike lanes? You know, like they treat the lane like they are a motorcycle or something?

Because I *REALLY* dislike it when they do that.

/If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

you will loose your shiat if you ever come to portland, or. it's beyond stupid. some dipshiat taking their sweet ass time meandering down the middle of the street holding up traffic for blocks & blocks. & if you dare to honk, you will be on the vicious end of hipster douche rage. how dare you try and make them conform to society and it's clocks. that's way to mainstream of you.

/i've developed the "safety honk" -- for safety.
// the lulz induced by hipster rage at my honking for safety is priceless.

We (on bikes) are not in a hermetically sealed metal cage and we can hear you behind us. You have a loud motor. We can also often smell you behind us. We know you're there.

A honk is not safe, it's loud and startling and can cause one to lose concentration, balance, and control.

A honk for lulz is dangerous.

Don't be a dick.

MontyBurns: miss diminutive: This must be due to the steady decline of multi-directional hills. You know, those hills that my parents had to walk up on the way to and from school? During a snowstorm? Carrying their younger siblings on their backs? You know?

Seriously though, I loved walking to school. It was like a mini-vacation from life. I got to just think and relax (usually while daydreaming about Todd, that tall senior who was just so hot but didn't know I existed....but that would all change once I joined the yearbook committee because since he was on council I would get to..._insert standard teenage melodramatic memory_)

/too much coffee

Heh. I'll bet unattractive guys were invisible to you. ASK ME ABOUT MY INADEQUACY ISSUES AND LINGERING HIGH SCHOOL RESENTMENTS

ftfwhat you're really saying

/the universe doesn't owe you a cheerleader
//not yours

Fat people are ugly.

ihatedumbpeople: well...not really a great example. malnourished kids in Africa aren't exactly outside playing around.

He's right...summers here (central VA) get pretty damned hot, they 'seem' hotter than the summers we had while I was in Georgia (bout a decade ago). mid-upper 90s, humidity through the roof...egads. Play outside in that for long and you better take a break, get some water, etc. Heat stroke is no joke.

I was lucky enough to be in Uganda last year, it's pretty much on the equator, gets quite warm. Didn't seem to stop people walking.

Mind you, with African road "rules" (which are somewhat chaotic to say the least), it's probably a safer option than driving.

I can understand not wanting to arrive at work a sweaty mess though.

Fireproof: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Some people here lost their minds when the city of Madison started plowing the major bike paths. They are heavily used all winter, although not as heavily as during warmer months. I can't tell you how many times I've been at work the day after a snowstorm and nearly everyone that drives didn't come in, while the bikers and walkers all made it. We've got tons of bikers and walkers around here, and people will complain about all the taxpayer money spent on bike paths, then in the next sentence complain about traffic congestion. It takes me 15 minutes to drive to work during rush hour, 20 minutes to walk, less than 10 to bike. I prefer the walk. I'm kinda rambling right now.

We've had the same wackos here in Charlotte, except dealing with a light rail system.

Before the first part of it was built:
BLARGH! NO ONE WILL RIDE IT! IT'S A WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY! WARRGARBLL!

After the first part opened:
BLARGH! IT'S ALL TOO SMALL! THERE ISN'T ENOUGH ROOM FOR ALL THE PASSENGERS! THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PARKING SPACES AT ALL THE STATIONS! WARRGARBL!

Before it opened the crazies actually got together a petition to repeal the city's half-cent mass transit tax and actually got enough signatures to get it on the ballot. They were saying things like that it was a conspiracy to kill the suburbs or that "When all of us in the suburbs ride it down into the city, the people from the city will ride it up and rob our homes." Said initiative was then roundly crushed at the polls by sane people.

/I think some people just HAVE to reduce every debate to left vs. right and then just HAVE to take what they see as their side's stance, no matter how insane it is

We had the same fight here in St. Louis. The burbs fought the light rail, saying "criminals from the city would ride it out here and rob our homes." Sanity did Not prevail at the polls, and our light rail goes no farther than the airport (still Many miles from the burbs).

Rapmaster2000: veive: Uchiha_Cycliste: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Victory is mine!

I got rid of my car a few years ago after shattering my right leg. But once I recovered my mobility and muscles, I never looked back. I <3 riding my bike everywhere, even in the rain to work (like today). And my commute is only 20 something miles each way.
If I can do it, the rest of you lazy farkers can too.

\Ride a bike, ride a bike, ride a motherfarking bike.
\\not a go-cart, not a school-bus, but a bike fat-ass, a farking bike fatass.

That's great douchenozzle, but there are a few points you seem to have missed:
My 2 year old can't ride a bike; in fact there are several months per year in Texas where having him outside for too long could kill him due to the extreme heat.



LOLWUT.

Actually, that infant had died over 14 days prior.

The tribeswomen of the Kalahari are required by law to carry the deceased for 42 days on their person, shaking the corpse every few hours to ensure proper fermentation of the innards - so that they can be ritually consumed by the local clan chieftain and his council under the height of the moon on the last day.

Otherwise, there will be no more IFC filmcrews for the rest of the season.

Uchiha_Cycliste: Suck it up, at least it's a dry heat.

Texas != Arizona.

120F in Arizona wasn't too bad, 100F in coastal Texas nearly killed me. You could almost drink the air.

Jim from Saint Paul: So Fark, am I allowed to dislike in when some of these sons-o-biatches use their bicycle on roads where there are no marked bike lanes? You know, like they treat the lane like they are a motorcycle or something?

Because I *REALLY* dislike it when they do that.

/If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

If it's got wheels it goes in the street.

The speed limit is the maximum, not the minimum. Only highways have a posted speed-minimum, and under that sign it says motorized-vehicles-only.

We don't have bike-lanes, and if you try to skirt the shoulder you're basically invisible. One time my bike was hit by a minivan because apparently i'm invisible. Sticking to the center of a lane of traffic solves that problem.

veive: Uchiha_Cycliste: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Victory is mine!

I got rid of my car a few years ago after shattering my right leg. But once I recovered my mobility and muscles, I never looked back. I <3 riding my bike everywhere, even in the rain to work (like today). And my commute is only 20 something miles each way.
If I can do it, the rest of you lazy farkers can too.

\Ride a bike, ride a bike, ride a motherfarking bike.
\\not a go-cart, not a school-bus, but a bike fat-ass, a farking bike fatass.

That's great douchenozzle, but there are a few points you seem to have missed:
My 2 year old can't ride a bike; in fact there are several months per year in Texas where having him outside for too long could kill him due to the extreme heat.



LOLWUT.

Jim from Saint Paul: That's often illegal.

Riding your bike on the sidewalk?

Riding on the sidewalk is actually more dangerous for the cyclist. You are not where people expect anything moving more than 2mph, and every driveway and parking lot entrance turns into another intersection.

From the Virginia DMV
Is it safer to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk or on the road?
Avoid bicycling on sidewalks, especially in areas where motorists might not expect bicyclists or might have obstructed visibility. For example, a driver backing a car out of a driveway might not expect a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk.

Jim from Saint Paul: Rapmaster2000: Jim from Saint Paul: Rakishi: Jim from Saint Paul: /If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

That's often illegal.

Riding your bike on the sidewalk?

Frequently, depending on the locale. The more urban the more likely it is to be illegal. Riding your bike on a sidewalk in Chicago will get your ass a big ticket. God forbid you take that bike on a pedestrian only road.

So expecting there to be a corresponding Bike Lane in the areas they would ticket... to much to ask for I assume?

Yes, because people like you froth at the "expense" of painting a lane because you can't be bothered to share the road in the first place.

One of the nicest things about moving to downtown Portland here is that I can walk anywhere I need to. When I lived in downtown Raleigh I could do the same but the heat of summer made it miserable at times. Yes it rains all the time here but at least I can wear a raincoat and stay dry and comfortable. I do miss the sun though.

/The beer here almost makes up for it

Uchiha_Cycliste: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Victory is mine!

I got rid of my car a few years ago after shattering my right leg. But once I recovered my mobility and muscles, I never looked back. I <3 riding my bike everywhere, even in the rain to work (like today). And my commute is only 20 something miles each way.
If I can do it, the rest of you lazy farkers can too.

\Ride a bike, ride a bike, ride a motherfarking bike.
\\not a go-cart, not a school-bus, but a bike fat-ass, a farking bike fatass.

That's great douchenozzle, but there are a few points you seem to have missed:
My 2 year old can't ride a bike; in fact there are several months per year in Texas where having him outside for too long could kill him due to the extreme heat.

There are also places that simply aren't designed for anything but cars; avoiding roads that involve 6 or more lanes of traffic moving at 60+ miles an hour would take my commute from 27 miles to over 50. Each way.

Have I mentioned the heat? A heat index of 115 or more turns your "only 20 something miles" commute into "holy fark, that dumbass who insists on riding his bike to work just died on the side of the road."

/better fat than stupid.

Well, it's springtime. As good a time as any for my annual sermon on the simple pleasures of walking.

Walking is good for you, and fairly easy to do. And aside from the cost of athletic shoes and socks, it's totally free. Now think about that for a second... how many things in your life fit all three of those criteria, just for starters?

Now consider it in evolutionary terms. The bipedal human form evolved over the course of millions of years (or was intelligently designed, if you swing that way) to stand up on it farking hind legs and walk. That is what we are supposed to do, in a very fundamental sense. How could it NOT be good for you?

Full disclosure: I don't really like to exercise. I'm not a fitness guy, or a workout nut. I've never belonged to a gym. And when I was growing up, running laps was, literally, a form of punishment ("You jumped offsides again?! Take a lap, dumbass!!"). Judge if you must, but I know myself. If it's something I just don't like doing, I will find an excuse not to. Eventually.

But walking hard (say, 4 mph for 60 to 90 minutes) doesn't feel unpleasant at all to me. It's a great way to get outside, get some fresh air, make the blood move around your body, and shake things up a little bit with every stride. It's not hard on your knees like jogging can be, and it's something you can do at nearly any age. And it's not only good for your body, but your mind as well. It's a world-class stress-reliever, and it tends to put me in a meditative state after the first 40 minutes or so.

If you don't enjoy "working out," give power-walking a shot. It has made a significant difference in my life. Seriously.

Voiceofreason01: The closest bar is a mile away, the grocery store is 1.5 miles away and I commute 40 miles for work; and it's either hot here or raining, where am I going to walk to?

For me, my local pub is 1.3 miles away, the grocery store is .75 miles away, each of my two jobs are just over a mile away, my gym is just over a mile away. It's either freezing, snowing, raining or blazing hot here. I walk everywhere, every day. Managed to walk of 30 pounds too - its' well worth the effort. As a matter of fact, if you have the proper shoes and clothes for the weather, it's pretty invigorating, de-stressing and healthful.

Jim from Saint Paul: Rakishi: Jim from Saint Paul: /If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

That's often illegal.

Riding your bike on the sidewalk?

Frequently, depending on the locale. The more urban the more likely it is to be illegal. Riding your bike on a sidewalk in Chicago will get your ass a big ticket. God forbid you take that bike on a pedestrian only road.

It's a vicious cycle, is the problem. Cities aren't designed for walking, so fewer people walk, so designers see no need to go out of their way to accommodate them, so nobody walks, so....

The problem is even worse for bikes. While yes, theoretically they're supposed to be able to share road space with cars, that's often just not feasible. In cases where the bikes simply can't maintain anywhere near the same speed as the cars, unless the road is darn near empty bikes just need their own lane. And even when they can, if the road is busy I just don't trust american drivers to not run me over eventually. Between elevation changes and ridiculously crowded roads, it's more than my life is worth to try to commute by bike here, even though this is one of the most bike-friendly places I've ever been (it actually has bike lanes in some places, they just all vanish once you get into downtown). And, of course, riding on the sidewalk is an even worse idea than usual thanks to the density of pedestrians (commuting to some major universities are one of the few places where lots of people still walk). It's a pity because biking is even more efficient than walking (and certainly faster) and still gives you exercise and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Instead, I get to contribute to emissions and my waistline by riding the bus.

Jim from Saint Paul: /If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

That's often illegal.

halfof33: I already walked almost 1.5 miles today just moseying through the Loop to my office.

But I'm better than most of you.

I bet it was exciting dodging all of the crackheads, union thugs, and other assorted Obama associates up there in in Unreal America.

People almost lost their minds when Bloomberg closed a few roads for pedestrian-only traffic, and that's in a city full of walkers.

Last time I went to Ohio I realized I could go for the entire day without ever leaving my car. No matter what errand there was to run, the place had a drive up window. Gas was full service. Can't wait until some enterprising chap mounts toilets to a wall for some drive up shiatting.

Get off your asses, humans are built to walk and run.

I think the future will be a mix of Wall-E and Idiocracy..

/Brawndo's got electrolytes.. Its what plants crave.