YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: The fees associated with ownership vs. the "fees" that maintain roads (ie. gasoline taxes) are the issue. If you think you can have city roads maintained to your liking by only a yearly registration for a car you're full of shiat. But by all means continue to use a resource that you don't really pay for and biatch about those that do.

Let me reiterate:
Few adults that ride bicycles are bicycle only. They also own and drive cars. And so, pay those same gas taxes and ownership fees.

Let me spell this out for you since you're too dense to figure it out.

Car Registration: ~150$
Gas Tax: Federal 17 cents, State ~40 cents per gallon.

How many gallons are burned on average in a week? A quick google search is ~600. So lets say 300$ a year in taxes that go to the government and used for roads etc.

Riding a fixie enjoying the road others paid for: priceless unless you pay a registration. Wwhile you're at it obey the rules of the road or you lose your biking license just like everyone else.

/Blow a red light get a ticket mailed to your house. Whether it's a bike, unicycle or automobile.

This text is now purple: Let's just say I've never seen automobiles blatantly disregard red lights and stop signs like I regularly see bicyclists doing

Around here, every single light change gets at least one fool driving through the red. Left turning, straight through, whatever.

Ok, maybe not every time. Let's take it down to 90% of the time.

This thread has made me love my town. We are on the school bus route, but the bus doesn't bother stopping at our street anymore. All the kids walk. Because they can, and the bus sucks.

Lord Dimwit: I would love it if it were actually possible to walk somewhere from my house. We live in an older neighborhood that does have sidewalks, but we're surrounded by freeways and unsafe walking areas. When I lived more centrally, I walked or rode my bike three miles to work every day, and when I lived in Europe, I didn't own a car and walked everywhere.

If the US cities would actually have more pedestrian-friendly areas, people would walk more.

The cities are IMHO fairly pedestrian friendly. The problem is that we all live out in the suburbs. Most cities are vast tracts of suburbia, all of it very pedestrian-unfriendly.

Me, I live in a small town. I don't really walk anywhere, although on days that I take the bus to work I walk 1.5 miles (total) between the bus and my office.

I also run 35-45 miles a week (outside, even!) so I'm no fatty.

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Let me spell this out for you since you're too dense to figure it out.

For the last time, since you seem to be quite dense....most adult cyclists also pay those same fees, because they also own and drive a car. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Not burning gas when I ride to the store, and so not paying gas tax for that trip? I'm also not tearing the road up with a 4,000 lb vehicle.

"How many gallons are burned on average in a week? A quick google search is ~600."
600 gallons a week? Seriously? Your google is apparently defective.

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: /Blow a red light get a ticket mailed to your house. Whether it's a bike, unicycle or automobile.

And I fully support ticketing cyclists who break the laws on the roads.

/have gotten a speeding ticket on the bike
//don't support red light or speeding cams and tickets mailed

unlikely: I don't know if it's a harbinger of Wall-E, but whenever I'm in Europe with other Americans it's always "Max, you can't make us walk like this, we need to take a taxi, the hotel is almost HALF A MILE AWAY, my calves will cramp, wah wah wah."

/then they all wonder why I know my way around these cities

We're in a very walkable neighborhood in Los Angeles. When family come to visit, they ALWAYS complain about having to walk the three or four blocks to a restaurant, Whole Foods, the drug store, etc. My father actually loses his breath trying to walk those four blocks.

\parking situation is bad around here, so it's easier to walk
\\plus walking is the only exercise I get
\\\I'm not fat, but my family is.

My girlfriend was training a new guy at her work last winter. He was riding his bike home to his wife and two small kids. Here's a picture of his bike at the corner of Ridge Route and Serrano in Lake Forest:

btraz70: Kids today wouldn't be so fat if we'd just encourage them to smoke...

Or if we gave them Adderall.

\Adderall apparently is an apetite suppressant.

FizixJunkee: btraz70: Kids today wouldn't be so fat if we'd just encourage them to smoke...

Or if we gave them Adderall.

\Adderall apparently is an appetite suppressant.

*appetite

\ftfm

Haven't read the other replies, so forgive me if this has already been said, but here's a c/p of my reply:

Why don't people walk more? Simple. Just a few reasons off the top of my head: busy streets with no sidewalks (I've had numerous - some fatal - car accidents happen in my front yard and have been told by the police not to walk on them and be careful going to the mailbox), miles to and between destinations, having to carry heavy merchandise those several miles, street crime, cost of living in cities, lack of public transportation, extreme climates, disabilities, lack of availability of healthy food in cities (see "food deserts"), and I'm sure there are many more that I haven't come up with that others will share.

Newsflash: Not everyone lives in New York or in major cities. Not everyone can afford to move to or live in one of those walkable cities. It's common knowledge that cities are more expensive than suburban or rural areas.

Even with my numerous disabilities, I love to walk, but I'm not about to put my life at risk to do so, and it's very arrogant and ignorant to suggest that I should. I live in a very old town (founded in the early 1800s - this isn't just a "new town" phenomenon). I used to live in Philadelphia and LOVED being able to walk everywhere! It was wonderful! But when I could no longer afford $1700/mo. to live in a rat-infested death hole (albeit in a safe neighborhood - hence the high rent), I was forced to move back to my hometown. I'd love to move back. But I can't afford it. Lots of people can't.

In an ideal world, we'd all be able to safely walk to reasonably-distanced destinations. But we don't live in an ideal world. We live in the real one.

asciibaron: fireclown: I'm sure someone has done some work comparing walking rates in more walking friendly cities to places like Rockville.


try walking around Columbia, Maryland. you will be arrested.

Depends on where. The association has several miles worth of trails to walk for no good reason, but to actually walk TO something? No so much. There's no easy way to get anywhere in this town. The nearest grocery store is something like 2.5 miles away.

I would want to bike to work but my choices for east-west commuting are 100, 175, and Broken Land. No thank you.

I hate this town so much.

unlikely: Petit_Merdeux: unlikely: I don't know if it's a harbinger of Wall-E, but whenever I'm in Europe with other Americans it's always "Max, you can't make us walk like this, we need to take a taxi, the hotel is almost HALF A MILE AWAY, my calves will cramp, wah wah wah."

Took six months before I adjusted to all the walking.

Where is your place? Our flat (shared, mine for ~1 month per year) is on r. St. Honore between the Louvre and la Marais. When we're there, if we're going somewhere closer than the Pantheon or so I won't bother with the Metro and I sure as hell won't take a taxi. For longer distances, my Navigo is the best thing ever.

My idea of a nice morning is to take a kind of quick walk up to the Opera, over to the Arts et Metiers, and then back to the flat with fresh bread, cheese, and fruit for whomever is staying with us. Usually, by the time I'm done with that they're all up and moving and ready for breakfast.

I imagine I'd be less leisurely if I had to get to work or something, but I'm never there for work, it's all vacation.

Whn my wife and I visited Paris last year we stayed in the Latin quarter and walked everywhere. Only places we took the metro to were Versailles and the Sacre Couer. Walked from Notre Dame to the Arc de Triomphe to La Marais and back to the hotel one day. That was a great day.

i volunteered to drive for a site visit at work the other month and the other three coworkers (just out of college, all of us) were complaining that I parked 2.5 blocks away and how far it was. in a downtown area. it took me a little while to digest that they were actually seriously complaining about a 5 minute walk.

Voiceofreason01: kab: Yes, because then cagers whine like little biatches that cyclists get to transport themselves while paying no insurance or road fees, etc.

"no fair, I'm in my climate controlled steerable lazy-boy, eating cheeseburgers and texting while I drive, and that cyclist doesn't pay for roads!"


Motorists pay for roads through fuel taxes and in many States personal property taxes on the vehicles themselves. Cyclists take up space on the road and are often ignorant of (or ignore) traffic laws and in my experience are almost always inconsiderate of the other vehicles on the road; it may be unpractical to ask cyclists to pay for use of public streets but it isn't necessarily unreasonable.

Maybe you're unaware that cyclists pay taxes too?
Maybe you're unaware that we pay a disproportionate amount of taxes to subsidize roads for motorists?
Maybe you're just spouting uneducated rhetoric?

Katie98_KT: YouPeopleAreCrazy: inner ted: the keyword here is BETWEEN. it's not the one way street that most cyclists would like to believe.

I'd not agree with your word 'most', but I'd go along with 'many'.
And if Fark comments are any indication, the reverse is also true.

sidewalk
honk
speed limit
etc, etc

You only notice the asshole cyclists, because they stick in your mind. The safe, legal ones you never even see.

Nah, I'm pretty annoyed with cyclists right now, and I wholly support biking. I literally saw one this morning roll straight through a red light- two lane road (each way), with a mostly blind road coming into it. Car in the left lane is stopped (at the light), making her invisible to anyone turning left where they would be in front of her/hit her, and enough time for her to stop, and she just rolls straight through.

Right, because motorists don't speed or run stop signs or lights. YOU're all perfect!

/I HATE it when a motorist runs a stop sign into my path after I've stopped and waited my turn (which I do every time).

RedT: CheekyMonkey: Jim from Saint Paul: So Fark, am I allowed to dislike in when some of these sons-o-biatches use their bicycle on roads where there are no marked bike lanes? You know, like they treat the lane like they are a motorcycle or something?

Because I *REALLY* dislike it when they do that.

/If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

Clearly, you are an idiot. A bicycle is a road vehicle, and in most places, it is illegal to ride one on the sidewalk. This does not apply to small children's bikes with 12" or smaller diameter wheels.

OMG, I so hate it when some guys is pedaling 15 mph up a hill in the hot sun while I sit in my Hummer with the AC on drinking a cup of coffee and listening to the radio, honking my horn because G-d dammit! The Road Belongs To Me!!!! I have important place s to be RIGHT NOW!

Sometimes, even when a cyclist is going down a hill at 35 mph on a four lane road with no traffic, I'll slow down and move in real close to her and honk my horn to let her know she should GET OFF THE G-D DAM ROAD!!!!! I don't CARE what the law says. The ROAD belongs to MEEEEE!!!!

/amirite?

FAVORITED!

inner ted: halfof33: inner ted: if you actually countered anything worth noting, i'd be happy to give you a tip of the hat. but you haven't. you've become confused. you may need to wear a helmet more often.

show me where o where i advocated running anyone off the road???? just cause it offends you at the thought of having to share the road, doesn't mean you get to call for injury or damage of people or property.

grow up little brat. adults aren't impressed with how long you can hold your breath in an attempt to get your way.

SAFETY HONK! HONK!

/listen sport, if you are going to get butt hurt when someone calls you out on your smart ass trolling, then you really need to grow a farking pair.

here's the thing tiger, you may think i'm joking about my 'safety honk', that it's just grand trolling. it's not. it's the only way to deal with an impossible situation.
if you really think that i'm going to idle behind some dipshiat giving it all they are worth on their ultra hip fixie and managing a whopping 8 mph as i try to get to work or anywhere else, then you are the one suffering from a mad case of ass-hurty.
since you & them just have to be on parade on every street, no matter how ill advised it is (lacking a shoulder or bike lane) then i have to figure a way past your self important ass.

the safety honk is the best way i know how to do that. if a car horn is enough to send you careening out of control, then you aren't in full control of your vehicle and shouldn't be on the road way to begin with.

sorry that crashes your perfect world.

Blow for all you're worth, I ignore it. I pay taxes to use the roads, and proportionately more than you do. I have a RIGHT to be there on my bicycle. YOU are only PERMITTED to be there in your CAGE.

Get over it and learn to share.

YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Let me spell this out for you since you're too dense to figure it out.

For the last time, since you seem to be quite dense....most adult cyclists also pay those same fees, because they also own and drive a car. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Not burning gas when I ride to the store, and so not paying gas tax for that trip? I'm also not tearing the road up with a 4,000 lb vehicle.

"How many gallons are burned on average in a week? A quick google search is ~600."
600 gallons a week? Seriously? Your google is apparently defective.

Seems that even the cyclists are missing the big picture here. Those gas taxes only pay a small fraction of road maintenance. The largest portion comes from the general funds into which we ALL pay with our income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, dividend taxes, etc, etc, etc...

WE PAY A HIGHER PROPORTION OF TAXES FOR THE ROADS THAN MOTORISTS DO. END OF STORY.

I walk quite a bit. I have a CHL too. Don't fark with me while I'm walking.

TwowheelinTim: YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Let me spell this out for you since you're too dense to figure it out.

For the last time, since you seem to be quite dense....most adult cyclists also pay those same fees, because they also own and drive a car. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Not burning gas when I ride to the store, and so not paying gas tax for that trip? I'm also not tearing the road up with a 4,000 lb vehicle.

"How many gallons are burned on average in a week? A quick google search is ~600."
600 gallons a week? Seriously? Your google is apparently defective.

Seems that even the cyclists are missing the big picture here. Those gas taxes only pay a small fraction of road maintenance. The largest portion comes from the general funds into which we ALL pay with our income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, dividend taxes, etc, etc, etc...

WE PAY A HIGHER PROPORTION OF TAXES FOR THE ROADS THAN MOTORISTS DO. END OF STORY.

erm... if motorists pay into all of the general funds and pay an additional amount in fuel taxes and all of that... simple math says that motorists pay more. see here is an equation:

general funds + additional motorist taxes (is greater than) general funds alone.

/personally think if everybody were just decent non-dickwads there wouldn't be a problem
//if on a bike going slow, then move over when it's safe to let other cars pass so you don't be a dick by limiting them to 15 mph up the hill and share your magical 3 hour journey so they can reach their destination before dusk

moike: I get up off the couch and get on these at least three days a week for a couple hours...



Your knees?

Optimus Primate: I have found that walking every day is VERY therapeutic. I had issues with depression which disappeared after a month of walking. The weight loss, overall incredibly good health & and legs that look like sculpted marble are nice side bonuses.

I'd probably have killed myself years ago if I didn't exercise almost every day. That's why I started, and now I've been doing it so long that I can't imagine stopping. Plus I'd probably get depressed again.

Plus I'm getting old and I get really stiff if I don't keep doing it.

I live in Taipei...a very busy city but there's usually sidewalks.

I like going for a 2 hour walk to a place with good beer. Sometimes I'll even drink one on the way as 7-11s here sell beer and it's legal to drink on the street.

TwowheelinTim: I have a RIGHT to be there on my bicycle. YOU are only PERMITTED to be there in your CAGE.

Annnnnd there we go, "I am better than you because of the hobby that I use to define myself at a person, because there is nothing else interesting about me, now if you'll excuse me I need to go put on my goofy looking unitard so everyone can see I'm not just ANY cyclist"

Keigh: grinding_journalist: Private_Citizen: We had the same fight here in St. Louis. The burbs fought the light rail, saying "criminals from the city would ride it out here and rob our homes." Sanity did Not prevail at the polls, and our light rail goes no farther than the airport (still Many miles from the burbs).

Hah, my family and I were just discussing this at Easter brunch over the weekend. While what you say is true, it's not really that bad- I live in Maplewood, which puts me walking distance from the Brentwood and Maplewood stops (Richmond Heights across from the Galleria if I have to), and while I'm close to the city limits, my neighborhood feels more suburban than urban. The rich folks from Ladue/Clayton/Frontenac who have cars anyway can drive to the Clayton Park/Bus/Metro station off of FPPW, and all 3 major colleges in St. Louis proper have stops on or adjacent to campus. (Then again, I'm the guy from upthread who's willing to walk from Big Bend and 40 to Brentwood south of 40 to get to my bar every week, so I'm probably the outlier.)

That said, there will never in a million years be a stop at say, Lindbergh and Clayton, or Ladue and 170, despite the relatively simple and short track extensions that would be required to get there. O NOES! DARKIES! THEY GONNA ROB OUR MCMANSIONS!

And steal our wymenarner dogs!

(hello fellow local! you have been favorited as "walks to a bar south of 40")

My commute would be soooo much easier if there was a Lindberg stop. I've thought about riding my bike from Forest Park PKWY, but the Lindberg traffic is RIDICULOUS in the morning. Maybe I'll give it a shot some day.

Keigh: grinding_journalist: Keigh: (hello fellow local! you have been favorited as "walks to a bar south of 40")

It's Double D's, across the street from whole foods. I'm there every Wednesday night after 830. Good times, if you like karaoke bars.

/they call me Delicious Creamy Center
//nobody can touch my Bee Gees renditions

In fact I do like karaoke! and i also have a friend who happens to be really good at it. She'll kill you with her Black Velvet.

MoronLessOff: Keigh: grinding_journalist: Private_Citizen:

My commute would be soooo much easier if there was a Lindberg stop. I've thought about riding my bike from Forest Park PKWY, but the Lindberg traffic is RIDICULOUS in the morning. Maybe I'll give it a shot some day.


Hey! you cheered me up yesterday with the cutie doggy, AND you're local? its fark-met!

But seriously, fark party st louis is off to a good start.

Too bad I never go out anymore. I would love to see what Rue 13 is like.

You mean we shouldn't be treating our cars like gas powered wheelchairs?

ginandbacon: Aarontology: ginandbacon: This picture is so sad:

[www.slate.com image 568x377]
"Carlin Robinson, 12, walks from her grandmother's car to the school bus in Manchester, Ky. Her house can be seen in the background."

I'll bet that kid has never eaten a vegetable that wasn't deep fried or part of some sort of ranch dip.

I was just grumbling to myself because I have to take a bus I don't normally take and I'll have to walk and extra 20 minutes each way. I think I'm going to be grateful instead and enjoy my pedestrian experience.

I have a five-transfer commute right now from near the Shoppingtown Mall in Fort Van, to Marlene Village while I'm stuck working a contract in Washington State. I used to curse it as being a loud, unpleasant experience, so then I got a CTRAN Express pass and skip the Yellow Line and the C44 bus. I learned to enjoy the walking a bit.

/Doesn't change that Portland's a wholly unlivable and barely walkable city with insufferable and variably insane people.
//Can't wait to get back to Tulsa.
///Even Memorial Drive is easier to walk.

HotWingConspiracy: Last time I went to Ohio I realized I could go for the entire day without ever leaving my car. No matter what errand there was to run, the place had a drive up window. Gas was full service. Can't wait until some enterprising chap mounts toilets to a wall for some drive up shiatting.

OK, I've just added "drive up pay toilet in Ohio" to potential business ideas.

Voiceofreason01: The closest bar is a mile away, the grocery store is 1.5 miles away

Legs broken? That's not a humanly insurmountable distance by any stretch. Heck, I once walked from the BOK Center to 61st and Memorial (new window), leaving my car behind, because I was drunk.

lucksi: Pockafrusta: My wife and I hiked a little over 3 miles this last weekend, so I'm getting a kick...

Link (new window) Silver Creek Falls, Oregon.

3 mile hike? Oh my gawd, you poor American. That's almost out of sight from your car. You must have been scared.

Not a challenging hike at all; my Scout troop used to take it two or three times a year as an easy hike for the newbies. Sad thing is, because it's a wet trail that goes behind a few waterfalls, despite the incredible beauty and easy proximity to both Portland and Salem, we were usually the only folks on the trail.

Jim from Saint Paul: So Fark, am I allowed to dislike in when some of these sons-o-biatches use their bicycle on roads where there are no marked bike lanes? You know, like they treat the lane like they are a motorcycle or something?

You mean, as they're legally obligated to do so?

Because I *REALLY* dislike it when they do that.


DEAL WITH IT

It applies whether or not the sign is present, it's only posted in narrow locations with a high frequency of selfish motorists.

/If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk



If you want a minimum speed limit, get on the turnpike.

Jim from Saint Paul: Rakishi: Jim from Saint Paul: /If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

That's often illegal.

Riding your bike on the sidewalk?

Yes. It's called a sideWALK, not a sideBIKE for a reason. Bikes are vehicles, they go in vehicle lanes.

Fireproof: Jim from Saint Paul: Rakishi: Jim from Saint Paul: /If your appratus cannot go the speed limit and there is NO lane for you, get on the damnned sidewalk

That's often illegal.

Riding your bike on the sidewalk?



Believe it. They have signs like this on Main Street in my hometown.

Maximum irony: There used to be a bike shop on that street.

That's no more ironic than a street with a sidewalk past a car dealership. For about the same reasons.

TwowheelinTim: My morning (bicycle) commute takes me through a neighborhood only a couple blocks from a local elementary school. I never ceases to disgust me how many of those idiotic parents still drive their snowflakes to the school. It boggles the mind.

Tulsa Public Schools is considering banning the practice and making it a suspend-able offense since it's creating traffic tie-ups and causing injury accidents near schools.

Fireproof: /All of this said, my town still lets you ride you bike on all the residential sidewalks; you just have to walk it for Main Street

Still a bad idea, you're harder to see and people aren't expecting vehicles barreling down the sidewalk.