FTFA:
It also concludes that human hunting, due to its limited duration and impact, is not effective in preventing hyper-abundant densities of large herbivores. This is partly "because hunting by humans is often not functionally equivalent to predation by large, wide-ranging carnivores such as wolves," the researchers wrote in their report.

That's because it's that way BY DESIGN. Sport hunting regulations are designed to increase the availability of game species, and they serve very well for that purpose.

Of the three main types of hunting, sport, subsistence, and market hunting, only sport hunting generally results in an increase in population of the animals targeted. Subsistence hunting (hunting for food, or to protect food crops/livestock), and market hunting (hunting to sell the animal parts for a profit) both have resulted in significant reductions in animals targeted, and in some cases outright extinction, but sport hunting, especially regulated sport hunting, has to the best of my knowledge never resulted in an outcome like that, generally it's the oppposite.

The other thing to consider is that people don't like the idea of large predators skulking around where their kids and pets might play. Example: A few years ago we had a coyote problem in my area. They were entirely too comfortable with human presence, and getting too close for comfort. Especially considering that the distaffbopper and I, and most of our neighbors, had young children (littlebopper was 5 or 6 at the time, small enough for a desperate coyote to try attacking). I shot one of them, and another one of the coyotes died presumably from natural causes (that one had a lame front paw), and I missed another that I had called in with by kissing my hand with an arrow due to an intervening twig. Since then I can hear them calling occasionally in the woods behind the house, but they stay away from the houses, which is as it should be.

Another reason why sport hunting can't be effective is because a lot of landowners, both public and private, won't allow it on their property. That allows large concentrations of animals to grow, outstripping the ability of the land to provide food.

dittybopper: FTFA:
It also concludes that human hunting, due to its limited duration and impact, is not effective in preventing hyper-abundant densities of large herbivores. This is partly "because hunting by humans is often not functionally equivalent to predation by large, wide-ranging carnivores such as wolves," the researchers wrote in their report.

That's because it's that way BY DESIGN. Sport hunting regulations are designed to increase the availability of game species, and they serve very well for that purpose.

Of the three main types of hunting, sport, subsistence, and market hunting, only sport hunting generally results in an increase in population of the animals targeted. Subsistence hunting (hunting for food, or to protect food crops/livestock), and market hunting (hunting to sell the animal parts for a profit) both have resulted in significant reductions in animals targeted, and in some cases outright extinction, but sport hunting, especially regulated sport hunting, has to the best of my knowledge never resulted in an outcome like that, generally it's the oppposite.

The other thing to consider is that people don't like the idea of large predators skulking around where their kids and pets might play.

THIS.

Well-regulated market hunting would be a tremendous idea in those parts of the country overrun by deer. There's expensive restaurants around me serving New Zealand venison when on any given day there's a couple hundred tasty, tasty deer within a few miles of their front door.

Gulper Eel: THIS.

Well-regulated market hunting would be a tremendous idea in those parts of the country overrun by deer. There's expensive restaurants around me serving New Zealand venison when on any given day there's a couple hundred tasty, tasty deer within a few miles of their front door.

Yeah, but you'll probably still run into the problem of large chunks of huntable land being off-limits.

dittybopper: Gulper Eel: THIS.

Well-regulated market hunting would be a tremendous idea in those parts of the country overrun by deer. There's expensive restaurants around me serving New Zealand venison when on any given day there's a couple hundred tasty, tasty deer within a few miles of their front door.

Yeah, but you'll probably still run into the problem of large chunks of huntable land being off-limits.

I think many of the people with the huntable land could be persuaded with a percentage of whatever the hunter is making.

What time is it? After 5:00? Damn. Time to go rape me some fine biatches.

dittybopper: I missed another that I had called in with by kissing my hand with an arrow due to an intervening twig

I agree with your points. Came to ridicule your sentence structure and archery skillz.

Gulper Eel: dittybopper: Gulper Eel: THIS.

Well-regulated market hunting would be a tremendous idea in those parts of the country overrun by deer. There's expensive restaurants around me serving New Zealand venison when on any given day there's a couple hundred tasty, tasty deer within a few miles of their front door.

Yeah, but you'll probably still run into the problem of large chunks of huntable land being off-limits.

I think many of the people with the huntable land could be persuaded with a percentage of whatever the hunter is making.

Much, if not most, huntable land that is off limits is so because the owners are opposed to hunting in general. I can't imagine that the amount of money they would make from allowing commercial hunting would be significant enough to change that attitude.

MrBallou: dittybopper: I missed another that I had called in with by kissing my hand with an arrow due to an intervening twig

I agree with your points. Came to ridicule your sentence structure and archery skillz.

Ridicule my sentence structure all you want, but unless you use archery tackle like this:



you've got no room to ridicule my archery skillz.

/Dad made the bow
//I made the arrows, and the quiver, and I made the handle and arrow-rest for the bow.

dittybopper: MrBallou: dittybopper: I missed another that I had called in with by kissing my hand with an arrow due to an intervening twig

I agree with your points. Came to ridicule your sentence structure and archery skillz.

Ridicule my sentence structure all you want, but unless you use archery tackle like this:

[img189.imageshack.us image 640x201]

you've got no room to ridicule my archery skillz.

/Dad made the bow
//I made the arrows, and the quiver, and I made the handle and arrow-rest for the bow.

Apologies. I have shot in the general direction of things without result many times, so I was actually sympathizing. That rig is awesome. Cool your dad made it.

dittybopper: Much, if not most, huntable land that is off limits is so because the owners are opposed to hunting in general.

I get that, living in a place where a lot of city folk buy second homes and start off being weirded out by the usual rural smells...but after the third time they have to pull hunks of Bambi out of the grille of their Range Rover, or the third time they have to go in for Lyme treatments, or the first time a herd of deer eats $10,000 worth of their fancy garden, they get just as sick of deer as the locals.

The way one part-time neighbor of mine put it, they wouldn't mind letting hunters use their property long as it was somebody from the area and not...quoting now...some goombah from Bensonhurst.

Gulper Eel: dittybopper: Much, if not most, huntable land that is off limits is so because the owners are opposed to hunting in general.

I get that, living in a place where a lot of city folk buy second homes and start off being weirded out by the usual rural smells...but after the third time they have to pull hunks of Bambi out of the grille of their Range Rover, or the third time they have to go in for Lyme treatments, or the first time a herd of deer eats $10,000 worth of their fancy garden, they get just as sick of deer as the locals.

The way one part-time neighbor of mine put it, they wouldn't mind letting hunters use their property long as it was somebody from the area and not...quoting now...some goombah from Bensonhurst.

I live on the edge of a large forested suburban park. The rich folks with MacMansions nearby have so much trouble like you describe that the authorities stage nighttime "control" hunts, using helicopters with thermal imaging and ninja-like teams of deer assassins.

MrBallou: dittybopper: MrBallou: dittybopper: I missed another that I had called in with by kissing my hand with an arrow due to an intervening twig

I agree with your points. Came to ridicule your sentence structure and archery skillz.

Ridicule my sentence structure all you want, but unless you use archery tackle like this:

[img189.imageshack.us image 640x201]

you've got no room to ridicule my archery skillz.

/Dad made the bow
//I made the arrows, and the quiver, and I made the handle and arrow-rest for the bow.

Apologies. I have shot in the general direction of things without result many times, so I was actually sympathizing. That rig is awesome. Cool your dad made it.

I was *TOO* good with my wheelie bow. The terror of lawn decorations everywhere:



That deer never stood a chance.

Your Zionist Leader: So you practice felching? *ducks*

How do you felch a duck?

dittybopper: MrBallou: dittybopper: MrBallou: dittybopper: I missed another that I had called in with by kissing my hand with an arrow due to an intervening twig

I agree with your points. Came to ridicule your sentence structure and archery skillz.

Ridicule my sentence structure all you want, but unless you use archery tackle like this:

[img189.imageshack.us image 640x201]

you've got no room to ridicule my archery skillz.

/Dad made the bow
//I made the arrows, and the quiver, and I made the handle and arrow-rest for the bow.

Apologies. I have shot in the general direction of things without result many times, so I was actually sympathizing. That rig is awesome. Cool your dad made it.

I was *TOO* good with my wheelie bow. The terror of lawn decorations everywhere:

[img138.imageshack.us image 640x480]

That deer never stood a chance.

He was asking for it.

dittybopper: Your Zionist Leader: So you practice felching? *ducks*

How do you felch a duck?

I think the real question is, how can he stop felching ducks?

MrBallou: dittybopper: Your Zionist Leader: So you practice felching? *ducks*

How do you felch a duck?

I think the real question is, how can he stop felching ducks?

That's simple: Just send him the bill.

dittybopper: MrBallou: dittybopper: Your Zionist Leader: So you practice felching? *ducks*

How do you felch a duck?

I think the real question is, how can he stop felching ducks?

That's simple: Just send him the bill.

You quack me up.

leviosaurus: That set up is all awesome n' stuff, but when you are going after a predator threatening you kid, you're dealing in serious business. Not the time to be going for style points.

/Envious - Really wish I could shoot an English longbow
//Still think you should have used a shotgun. Bows are for deer.

Well, it was more to discourage, and I was hunting in an area where guns aren't necessarily a good idea, and I had already gotten rid of the wheelie bow.

Oddly enough, while other measures to discourage them pretty much failed miserably, actively hunting them *DID* work: I killed one, missed another, and went out a number of times where I didn't see anything, but it seems to have actively discouraged them. Haven't had a problem with them coming into backyards in 3 years or so. They stay back in the woods now, which is fine.

/Neighborhood is at least 50 years old.

dittybopper: FTFA:
It also concludes that human hunting, due to its limited duration and impact, is not effective in preventing hyper-abundant densities of large herbivores. This is partly "because hunting by humans is often not functionally equivalent to predation by large, wide-ranging carnivores such as wolves," the researchers wrote in their report.

That's because it's that way BY DESIGN. Sport hunting regulations are designed to increase the availability of game species, and they serve very well for that purpose.

Of the three main types of hunting, sport, subsistence, and market hunting, only sport hunting generally results in an increase in population of the animals targeted. Subsistence hunting (hunting for food, or to protect food crops/livestock), and market hunting (hunting to sell the animal parts for a profit) both have resulted in significant reductions in animals targeted, and in some cases outright extinction, but sport hunting, especially regulated sport hunting, has to the best of my knowledge never resulted in an outcome like that, generally it's the oppposite.

The other thing to consider is that people don't like the idea of large predators skulking around where their kids and pets might play. Example: A few years ago we had a coyote problem in my area. They were entirely too comfortable with human presence, and getting too close for comfort. Especially considering that the distaffbopper and I, and most of our neighbors, had young children (littlebopper was 5 or 6 at the time, small enough for a desperate coyote to try attacking). I shot one of them, and another one of the coyotes died presumably from natural causes (that one had a lame front paw), and I missed another that I had called in with by kissing my hand with an arrow due to an intervening twig. Since then I can hear them calling occasionally in the woods behind the house, but they stay away from the houses, which is as it should be.

Even "table" hunters don't really make a dent int he population. Most people I know that shoot deer to supplement thier diet can maybe make use of one , maybe two good-sized deer a year, and that's to feed their whole family. If you're using the organ meats for sausage and otherwise "using the whole deer" a 150 deer will give you about 75lbs of useable meat. figure most people eat4-6 oz of meat with their main meal and a family of four is only going through about 1-1/2lb a day even if it is their sole protein source. At that rate, you'd max out at 4-6 deer a year or about 1 1/2 per person. Given how they breed that simply isn't enough to keep the populations stable much less decreasing.

J. Frank Parnell: HeadLever: Another big issue we are having with wolves is the decimation of several elk populations. It has become bad enough in some hunting areas that all elk tags have been pulled and no hunting is allowed. This is a big issue for hunters as it reduces their ability to hunt

Wolves have coexisted with Elk for centuries, so sorry, you can't blame them.

Sickens me how people have fridges full of food and still go out to kill animals for fun. I'm aware of the propaganda saying humans have to kill things because nature is stupid and needs our help, but when you consider how large and balanced animal populations were before we started screwing with things, it's revealed as BS.

If you want to *PROTECT* a species, get sport hunters interested in killing them. They will then lobby the government for protective laws and habitat preservation, and they will also spend millions of dollars to preserve habitat for those animals.

You may not *LIKE* it, but the fact of the matter is the best way to ensure that there is a plethora of charismatic megafauna is to get Bubba McRedneck interested in mounting it's head on his living room wall.

Conversely, supporting subsistence hunting does the opposite: Animals hunted strictly for food don't generally get the protections inherent in sport hunting, because Starvy McTenmouthstofeed doesn't give a rats ass if the left-handed Jackalope is endangered, he just wants to feed his kids.

Here is a little bit of interesting history to support the idea: In Appalachia during the early to mid 1800's, local gun makers went from making guns in calibers suitable for bear, deer, elk, etc., roughly .44 to .54 caliber, down to making guns of smaller caliber, .40 caliber or less, generally in the .32 to .36 caliber range. Why? Because all the big game was hunted out. All they had left to shoot were rabbits, squirrels, possums, raccoons, birds, and other small game. Some of that was probably due to market hunting, but in the backwoods, it was almost certainly mainly due to subsistence hunting.

Magorn: Even "table" hunters don't really make a dent int he population. Most people I know that shoot deer to supplement thier diet can maybe make use of one , maybe two good-sized deer a year, and that's to feed their whole family. If you're using the organ meats for sausage and otherwise "using the whole deer" a 150 deer will give you about 75lbs of useable meat. figure most people eat4-6 oz of meat with their main meal and a family of four is only going through about 1-1/2lb a day even if it is their sole protein source. At that rate, you'd max out at 4-6 deer a year or about 1 1/2 per person. Given how they breed that simply isn't enough to keep the populations stable much less decreasing.

"Table" hunters *CAN'T* make a dent simply because the regulations are stacked against them. They are designed for sport hunting to stabilize and increase the population of deer. They *COULD* have more of an effect, if they weren't fettered by quite so many regulations.

TopoGigo: I once had some hippie-type tell me that the main reason ranchers have a problem with wolves is that they use federal land to free graze their herds. Does anyone know if this is accurate? And, if not, is it ridiculous to expect ranchers and farmers to use genetically engineered working/killing machines (dogs) to protect their investments?

Ranchers often graze thier livestock on federal land and do so at below-market rates. Most of the Wolf-hating comes from sheep farmers whose livestock is more vulnerable to wolf predation and who, since there haven't BEEN any wolves fro a long time haven't had to use traditional wolf protection methods such as stationing a shepherd in the fields (why do you think David was so good with that sling?) or keeping on of the many breeds of dogs whose name ends in "shepherd" (which as you say have been breed for a couple millena to be perfectly bio-engineered livestock protectors) or even keeping Llamas or Ostriches in with the sheep flock (Ostrich can decapitate a lion with one kick).

They resent having to do so now because even the care an up keep of a few dogs is a significant enough expense that it affect thier bottom lines. So to them the equation is fewer wolves=more profit, and to hell with what they may do to the greater ecology

meat0918: I'm fairly certain such gruesome imagery of dead animal is against the FArQ.

//Sucks at hunting, but I'm getting better.

That's OK. I've got a couple of alts lined up in case of bannination. One of them is semi-open, and the other is a 'sleeper' that is there but never used and not associated with me in any way just in case I actually really, *REALLY* need it.