jbuist: propasaurus: I don't think he is. Sure, he'll get a few bucks, but it's not gonna be the huge windfall he thinks. Because no one actually cares about him. Not even his defenders.

I wouldn't be surprised if he nets a few thousand dollars, maybe up to $10k.

Everybody's eyes are on the case, and people want the dude put away, so the government is likely going to go full-bore on this one. At least, that's my take on dismissing the grand jury. They're just going to go right for the prosecution to get in the spotlight while people care. Or the self defense claim is so laughable that it won't even be a big part of the actual trial. Either or.

What I don't want to see happen is for the defense to argue that Stand Your Ground had any bearing here (it didn't) and then lose with a decision that dilutes or muddies up the law. If Zimmerman does go down for this I'd rather see it be because there was no self defense claim to start with. That removes SYG and duty to retreat stuff and keeps the decision "clean."

Back when I was single and making more money I'd have probably lobbed $50 toward the guy so he gets a fare shake at getting decent representation.

Same goes for the guy in AZ that shot a mentally retarded guy. It looks bad but I'll wait for the courts do to their work before I draw any conclusions.

You may have a valid point. Ever been on the receiving end of tard strength?

What an asshole. No sympathy for you, you farking cocksucker.

9beers: Goodnight mob.




See ya tomorrow Chudogg.

See ya tomorrow 9Beers.

Hope Zimmerman is cleared, then massive, multi billion dollars lawsuits against the media, the state, the Feds, and huge lawsuits against the parents, Al, Jesse, everyone.

Disgusting what is happening here.

eraser8: s2s2s2: Is there some reason you believe it isn't?

It doesn't really matter what I "believe."

I'm asking you if my proposed statement, from your perspective, is true or false.

You're the only one who can answer the question -- again, from your perspective.

Why not simply give the answer to answer to the question as asked? Do you have something to hide?

I gave you the answer from the transcripts. I was no where near Sanford, so, nothing to hide. You just seem to not be able to move on. Nothing but questions from you. Even when you have the answers.

/it was late where I am, went to bed since your game was getting boring.

Weaver95: I don't think he's going to get very many donations.

No.

But he does have a place to send him a message. I hope he likes mine.

rewind2846: eraser8: s2s2s2: Is there some reason you believe it isn't?

It doesn't really matter what I "believe."

I'm asking you if my proposed statement, from your perspective, is true or false.

You're the only one who can answer the question -- again, from your perspective.

Why not simply give the answer to answer to the question as asked? Do you have something to hide?

I think s2 is at least cognizant enough to realize that the internet forgets nothing, and FARK forgets even less. The non-committal replies given so far are a form of "hedging your bets" employed by those who are afraid of being found wrong in the future. He can always say "I didn't say he did, I just posted what I found. If what I found was wrong then it was wrong."

Not "I was wrong", but "it was wrong". Kind of like the "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" type apology.

Yellow through and through.

I answered. He didn't. Not my problem. You seem to have a hard enough time with word meanings. Let a lone situational understanding.
Faulty memories are worthless memories.

digistil: s2s2s2: eraser8: s2s2s2: He gave a specific location. It is, in fact, in the link. You didn't ask if he changed it.

That's really what you want to go with?

You want to ignore the fact that Zimmerman abandoned a stationary location and instead settled on a "call me when you get here" standard?

If you're a Zimmerman fan, I can understand why you'd want to ignore his final instruction to police. Because it TERRIBLY undermines your narrative.

So, I'll ask you straight out. True or false: did Zimmerman communicate to the SPD that they should, "call me and I'll tell them where I'm at."?

If so, on what basis do you make the claim that Zimmerman was stationary rather than on the prowl?

Who said that?

You've gotta be trolling. You can't be this naive.

Yes, he was trolling. Because I did not assert that Zimmerman was stationary.

I said there is no evidence he was following Martin at the time he seems to have complied with the advice that following wasn't necessary.

Can you show otherwise?

GAT_00: Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: I don't think he's going to get very many donations.

I think he's going to get flooded with money.

hopefully monopoly money and canadian nickles.

You think the right isn't going to just dump money on him? These people still give money to Palin for an election fund for fark's sake.

I'm with the Right and ain't sending him any money. George is a Democrat and wrapping himself in the American Flag is kind of creepy.

Raharu: Prove
he
Was

Prosecution will have to prove he wasn't, if they want to convict.

HotWingConspiracy: Essentially the man kills black kids for money.

Like this guy?

Kinda falls apart, huh?

omeganuepsilon: lazy side to carry it out effectively

Yeah, staying up late to try to get someone making claims that I made claims while refusing to support their own claims, and I'm lazy.

I'm back....You going to get to the point, pre-trial convictistan?

kosumi: Zimmerman's story that he just happened upon Martin

Well that isn't his story. Try again.

I remember once when I was a teenager I was walking home from a friend's house one night. I innocently decided to take a shortcut past an alley and cut through between some houses. As I neared an open garage I encountered a homeowner who demanded to know: "what are you doing here?" and "you better get outta here before I call the cops"

I assured him I was just "going home" and "meant no harm" instead of RELENTLESSLY ATTACKING HIM I apologized and politely departed the scene.

I am NOT on Zimmerman's side. Simply,a way over zealous and possibly paranoid individual who was armed encountered a very dumb and thuggish kid with predictable results.

Gawker is a Huffington Post website. Ergo kill whitey kill the Jews.

s2s2s2: HotWingConspiracy: Essentially the man kills black kids for money.

Like this guy?
[www.whitehouse.gov image 549x748]
Kinda falls apart, huh?

Not really, no.

HotWingConspiracy: Not really, no.

Exactly. One of them at least has a plausible case that they were actually being threatened by the brown person they killed.

ChuDogg: I'm gonna post some pictures. For anyone still here I recommend viewing this narrative

Thank you for the pictures. The "narrative" contains some weasel words, however, such as a reference to Martin's "escape" from Zimmerman.

ChuDogg: Martin would likely have been walking around the houses to the left, initially walked towards Zimmerman, then turns around and runs behind the complex straight ahead.


Conjecture. There is precious little evidence to support this "reconstruction."

ChuDogg:
This is the T-Intersection on the sidewalk. This around the point that Operator suggests "we don't need you to do that", he then dismissively states "he ran" as can no longer see Martin. He assumed he would catch him on the end of the housing complexes sprinting towards the exit, but as soon as he rounds the corner, he realizes he can't see him. Inititally, he assumes that Martin simply fled the neighborhood already.


Triple-decker conjecture, unsupported even by anything the Zimmerman family has asserted.

ChuDogg: Zimmerman, probably slightly pacing as he talked with the 911 operator walked slightly down the path, literally about 10-15 feet in front of him.


Conjecture. We don't know where either Zimmerman or Martin were, exactly, just before the confrontation started.

ChuDogg:
Also, Martins house was about 70 yards down towards the end, about 10 seconds at a heavy sprint, and he could have wove in between housing complexes if he was fearing his life.


Conjecture. Furthermore, Martin had no obligation to retreat anywhere according to Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

ChuDogg: Zimmerman's story

Which one? George Zimmerman's father said that the confrontation started when Martin walked up to Zimmerman and addressed him, and Zimmerman's brother claimed that it started after Martin "snuck up" on Zimmerman. This sort of thing doesn't tend to raise my estimation of the Zimmerman family's credibility when it comes to the events of the evening of February 26.

s2s2s2: HotWingConspiracy: Not really, no.

Exactly. One of them at least has a plausible case that they were actually being threatened by the brown person they killed.

Gonna need you to try harder.

HotWingConspiracy: s2s2s2: HotWingConspiracy: Not really, no.

Exactly. One of them at least has a plausible case that they were actually being threatened by the brown person they killed.

Gonna need you to try harder.

Nah, I don't know all the reasons Obama feels the need to kill brown people. Perhaps there is just cause.

Listening to NPR, I am told people are now upset that the police guy that they demanded step down, stepped down.

Still hoping eraser8 comes back to inform me of where I said George "remained stationary". Anyone else want to scour the thread and show me? Also to see if he can get to where he was going after getting that answer he refused to accept.

s2s2s2: HotWingConspiracy: s2s2s2: HotWingConspiracy: Not really, no.

Exactly. One of them at least has a plausible case that they were actually being threatened by the brown person they killed.

Gonna need you to try harder.

Nah, I don't know all the reasons Obama feels the need to kill brown people. Perhaps there is just cause.

Yes, I get it. The president acting as commander in chief of an armed force engaged in several conflicts is the same as George Zimmerman. You've really tied it all in a nice bow.

Listening to NPR, I am told people are now upset that the police guy that they demanded step down, stepped down.

That means Zimmerman is innocent!

tirob: Which one? George Zimmerman's father said that the confrontation started when Martin walked up to Zimmerman and addressed him, and Zimmerman's brother claimed that it started after Martin "snuck up" on Zimmerman.

You can't sneak and walk at the same time?

There are several dozen high-functioning retards around here who've been posting about this case for weeks claiming that Zimmerman's "walking" and "following" Martin (using Martin's own word -- "following") is no different from "chasing," "hunting" or "stalking."

All you've got is argument-by-thesaurus. You lose. Just like the Duke lacrosse team. Just like the Jena Six. Just like Tawana Brawley.

I don't like Zimmerman, but he has the right enemies.

HotWingConspiracy: That means Zimmerman is innocent!

Nah, but the fact he hasn't been proven guilty does.

Phinn: I don't like Zimmerman, but he has the right enemies.

/Agrees.

I just looked at the site, and I was visitor number EIGHT!

if that site is having problems, then maybe they shouldn't host with an Atari 2600.

ChuDogg: I'm gonna post some pictures. For anyone still here I recommend viewing this narrative and the 911 call here first.
...

You are my new favorite! Seriously. This really does paint a real picture of the timeframe. You should include the audio transcript with these new photo narrative to finish it off.

Excellent work!

Weaver95: Zimmerman was clearly in the wrong. he disobeyed ...

Oh, yes, that's the worst of Zimmerman's supposed offenses against humanity, isn't it? Disregarding the government.

See, look what happens when you disobey your betters!

Obey! Submit! Respect authoritay!!! Or else DOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM will ensue!!!!

You people are pathetic.

/ Yeah, I said it. You people.
// Obey.

Phinn: Weaver95: Zimmerman was clearly in the wrong. he disobeyed ...

Oh, yes, that's the worst of Zimmerman's supposed offenses against humanity, isn't it? Disregarding the government.

See, look what happens when you disobey your betters!

Obey! Submit! Respect authoritay!!! Or else DOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM will ensue!!!!

You people are pathetic.

/ Yeah, I said it. You people.
// Obey.

Phinn: Oh, yes, that's the worst of Zimmerman's supposed offenses against humanity, isn't it? Disregarding the government.

Damn, and that was a really funny picture of a guy in a wearable sleeping bag with the caption "F*ck da police".

Damn you, Fark Filters!

Here's the link to it.
Link (new window)

With this new development,,,,, here is a hotlinked picture of Katrina Weidman from the series "Paranormal State":

For the last time, I don't CARE if Zimmerman was racist or if he wasn't. He killed a kid and from the looks of it, will walk.

The black community, already upset that many of their young men are in jail disproportionately and are being systematically disenfranchised said enough and demanded justice and due process for the killing of an unarmed 17 year old boy.

It's impossible to fix NOW, but if the police would have actually investigated the case in the first place, we wouldn't have had any of this. And that initial investigation may have had Zimmerman walk anyway but there would be much less to complain about.

This is a problem why, again, exactly?

It's not exactly like America has any shortage of violent black teens.

Wow. Even NPR is starting to pass speculation off as fact. "George Zimmerman pursued Trayvon after he was told not to."

That is not in any way supported by facts.

Raharu: 9beers: I sent 50 bucks earlier today.


[img29.imageshack.us image 640x122]

[img193.imageshack.us image 511x104]

[img641.imageshack.us image 640x92]

hahahahahaha *deep breath* hahahahahaha

Hickory-smoked: But shooting a teenager walking home from the convenience store... that's okay.

Your analysis is Kindergarten-level, but in general, shooting someone who is merely walking home from a convenience store is not "okay."

However, shooting someone who has tackled you, punched you, climbed on top of you, bashed your head against the pavement, and is showing no indication of intending to discontinue this behavior, all while trying to take your gun, is "okay."

People who act like that tend to get shot.

plewis: The black community, already upset that many of their young men are in jail disproportionately and are being systematically disenfranchised

See, I don't see people acting in "communities," nor do I see young men as being "theirs." We are all individuals, each with free will and the capacity for making ethical choices.

I don't give two shiats who's "upset." Young black males are disproportionately incarcerated because young black males commit violent crimes at a disproportionately high rate.

plewis: if the police would have actually investigated the case in the first place

They did. They collected witness statements, and brought the suspect in for custodial interrogation, after giving him medical treatment. The investigator recommended prosecution, but the prosecutor declined to charge due to insufficient evidence.

tirob: ChuDogg: I'm gonna post some pictures. For anyone still here I recommend viewing this narrative

Thank you for the pictures. The "narrative" contains some weasel words, however, such as a reference to Martin's "escape" from Zimmerman.

ChuDogg: Martin would likely have been walking around the houses to the left, initially walked towards Zimmerman, then turns around and runs behind the complex straight ahead.


Conjecture. There is precious little evidence to support this "reconstruction."

ChuDogg:
This is the T-Intersection on the sidewalk. This around the point that Operator suggests "we don't need you to do that", he then dismissively states "he ran" as can no longer see Martin. He assumed he would catch him on the end of the housing complexes sprinting towards the exit, but as soon as he rounds the corner, he realizes he can't see him. Inititally, he assumes that Martin simply fled the neighborhood already.


Triple-decker conjecture, unsupported even by anything the Zimmerman family has asserted.

ChuDogg: Zimmerman, probably slightly pacing as he talked with the 911 operator walked slightly down the path, literally about 10-15 feet in front of him.


Conjecture. We don't know where either Zimmerman or Martin were, exactly, just before the confrontation started.

ChuDogg:
Also, Martins house was about 70 yards down towards the end, about 10 seconds at a heavy sprint, and he could have wove in between housing complexes if he was fearing his life.


Conjecture. Furthermore, Martin had no obligation to retreat anywhere according to Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

ChuDogg: Zimmerman's story

Which one? George Zimmerman's father said that the confrontation started when Martin walked up to Zimmerman and addressed him, and Zimmerman's brother claimed that it started after Martin "snuck up" on Zimmerman. This sort of thing doesn't tend to raise my estimation of the Zimmerman family's credibility when it comes to the events of the evening of February 26.

Hi, thanks for responding. I think alot of value can be gained from reading the overlay even if one doesn't support my conclusions.


Has im on my mobile, I can't selectively quote so Ill try my best to make sense here:

Re: conjectures.

The point of the entire analysis was to take the limited facts we have, ie, the position of the vehicle, the position of the scene of the altercation, and relevent facts from the 911 call. It's not entirely a conjecture, just a very basic theory with the limited facts we have.

Conjecture is saying "zimmerman hung up and continued to persue Martin after ordered not to". This has been repeated many times in these threads and in the media as well, without any corroberating facts. It's almost axiomatic, a fight occurred, therefore Zimmerman must havr kept moving. No other alternative scenarios can possibly arise.

Yet, rebuilding the event, taking key statements Zimmerman makes to the 911 officer, we know the position his car was in, we know when he exited his vehicle "we can hear it on the 911 tape", and the distance on the sidewalk is roughly 100 feet, making his walk/run to the T intersection the most likely movement that we hear on the 911 call.

Now I chose occams razor that Martin was likely hiding and at some point they confront on the call. Yes, it is possible Zimmerman chased Martin down the alley then all the way back to his exact starting point, but that seems a little rediculous scenario to present without additional facts.

Also I never say how the two confront, only the two likely scenarios depending on which side you support. Only that we can pinpoint with approximate certainty where they do confront. Though it does seem that Martin moved to Zimmermans location based on the altercation occuring in the middle sidewalk.

So it's not conjecture, it's critical thinking based on the limited facts we have. I mean we could just say "well since we don't know the exact details we can't say one way or the other" but then why are we even here? And why the round the clock media coverage?

If you want to make an alternative reconstruction you're more than welcome to. But you can't simply dismiss it as "conjecture" because we don't have the entirety of the police report and then simply restate your own completely unsubstantiated theories.

Re: zimmermans story.
I was referring to what was leaked by the media concerning what was in the police report. Anything a family member may have heard or restated in defense of zimmerman is heresay, and not even admissable in court. Zimmerman's story and Treyvon's gf account could go hand and hand. The only main difference is the exchange of words towards the end, with the gf's more benign: "why are you following me?" "What are you doing here?" Verus "you got a problem? You do now?".

Re:Zimmerman loses sight of Martin.

This is plainly visible on the 911 call. This can be positively accepted as fact.

Re:Martins house 70 meters away.

Martins father restated this many times and we know where his address is located. maybe you are not privy to this information but don't naively assume everybody else is not.

Martin did not have duty to retreat and nothing of the sort was suggested. There had not even been any violence or threat of violence at this point so this is really irrelevent to bring up.

The point is that the initial narrative was that Martin was "scared for his life", yet he was in throwing distance to his house and we know from the 911 call he had already outran Zimmerman and zimmerman lost sight of him. Yet instead of returning to his home and reporting the man to his parents, he lingers in the area and somehow winds up in an altercation with Zimmerman. We don't know his position at this point, all we know is he pretty much winds up EXACTLY at zimmermans location for the scene of the altercation.

By all means though, if you want to make your own scenario where Zimmerman chases down Martin fleeing for his life, please feel free to do so. It does have to fit with the facts that we know of where the altercation took place and the 911 call.

9beers: I'm the one hating?

9beers: The streets in Sanford are safer with this violent thug off of them. Zimmerman deserved an award for his actions.

Your Boss: ChuDogg: I'm gonna post some pictures. For anyone still here I recommend viewing this narrative and the 911 call here first.
...

You are my new favorite! Seriously. This really does paint a real picture of the timeframe. You should include the audio transcript with these new photo narrative to finish it off.

Excellent work!

Thanks, appreciate it.

Did you see my first link? I have the google maps overlay with the entirety of the audio transcript word for word.

It was only a matter of time before the slimiest of Fark's resident racists came crawling out to comment on this. It's like catnip. They can't resist.

Oh_Enough_Already: This is a problem why, again, exactly? It's not exactly like America has any shortage of violent black teens.

Why don't you go back to stormfront, dude? Maybe people will take your racist mouthpoop seriously there

9beers: Weaver95: can you disprove it?

So all of a sudden, people have to prove they didn't commit a crime? Of all the people to say that, it blows my farking mind that it's coming from you.

Presumption changes slightly when you are standing over a dead body with a smoking gun in your hand. You get that no one, not even him, is contesting the fact that he shot Martin dead. That being conceded, it is absolutely his responsibility to justify the shooting.

PastaFazoole: 9beers: I sent 50 bucks earlier today.

You know what? I actually believe you. You are a piece of slime.

Why do you hate brown people?

MycroftHolmes: 9beers: Weaver95: can you disprove it?

So all of a sudden, people have to prove they didn't commit a crime? Of all the people to say that, it blows my farking mind that it's coming from you.

Presumption changes slightly when you are standing over a dead body with a smoking gun in your hand. You get that no one, not even him, is contesting the fact that he shot Martin dead. That being conceded, it is absolutely his responsibility to justify the shooting.

the law doesn't work that way. he claimed self defense. with no reason or evidence to support any other conclusion, Zimmerman has not been charged and is not likely to be.

Phinn: tirob: Which one? George Zimmerman's father said that the confrontation started when Martin walked up to Zimmerman and addressed him, and Zimmerman's brother claimed that it started after Martin "snuck up" on Zimmerman.

You can't sneak and walk at the same time?

There \All you've got is argument-by-thesaurus. You lose. Just like the Duke lacrosse team. Just like the Jena Six. Just like Tawana Brawley.

I don't like Zimmerman, but he has the right enemies.

Read what I wrote again. You can sneak and walk at the same time, but you can't "sneak up on" and "walk up and address" someone at the same time. If I address you I'm not sneaking up on you. This isn't argument by thesaurus, it's two different versions of how the confrontation started.

BuzzBoy: Has the coroner released a toxocology report on Trayvon Martin ?,...I'd like to know what drugs were in his system.

I'd like to know what was in Zimmerman's system. you know the guy who killed the other guy. the guy with a violent history and arrest record. Oh wait. they didn't drug test him. the let him go home with his gun. Just taking his word as the gospel truth.

Hobodeluxe: Oh wait. they didn't drug test him. the let him go home with his gun. Just taking his word as the gospel truth.

You know this, how? Remember, the police wanted to charge him.