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(Washington Post)   FDR would fight against the current Social Security system   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, social security, FDR, Samuelson  
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2828 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Apr 2012 at 1:50 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-09 02:24:19 PM  

Hydra: FloydA: False premise. It is not "welfare" or "the dole" or anything like it. It is a form of insurance.

No, it isn't.


Helvering v. Davis did not hold that Social Security is not a form of insurance. It held that Social Security is constitutionally permissible as an exercise of the federal power to spend for the general welfare.
 
2012-04-09 02:25:06 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Suleiman the Magnificent would have been opposed to No Child Left Behind.


Francis I of France would have been opposed to current trends in headwear
 
2012-04-09 02:25:15 PM  

beta_plus: Philip Francis Queeg: beta_plus: TofuTheAlmighty: Robert Samuelson, still dumb as a bag of hammers

E.J. Dionne is the only actual liberal at the Washington Post. The other ostensibly leftish columnists are craven morons who value their membership in the Beltway cocktail circuit more than critical thinking.

Yeah, we all know that the newspaper that single handedly destroyed Richard Nixon is run by a bunch of evil monocled twirling mustache republicans.

/no true liberals in America

Richard Nixon single handedly destroyed Richard Nixon.

These guys beg to differ:

[www.toptenz.net image 350x278]

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 395x211]


Nixon's grand mistake was his failure to understand that Americans are forgiving, and if he had admitted error early and apologized to the country, he would have escaped.
Bob Woodward
 
2012-04-09 02:25:45 PM  
After all, there is no hat like liberal hat
 
2012-04-09 02:26:36 PM  
Check out the 3rd bullet down. On this Social Security Administration page: http://www.ssa.gov/estimator/ (new window)

* Your estimated benefits are based on current law. The law governing benefit amounts may change because, by 2036, the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 77 percent of scheduled benefits.

Land of the free. Where the government can sign you up for a service you never signed up for, threaten you with imprisonment if you don't participate, tell you that the service is for your own retirement, and then deny you the full benefit of the service.

Bunch of crooks.
 
2012-04-09 02:27:17 PM  

Serious Black: skullkrusher: how the hell is he gonna fight anything from a wheelchair?

just sayin'

[www.freakingnews.com image 640x596]


daaaaamn
 
2012-04-09 02:27:33 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Robert Samuelson, still dumb as a bag of hammers

.


HEY!
 
2012-04-09 02:28:13 PM  

Jackson Herring: After all, there is no hat like liberal hat


Does this look like a liberal hat?

www.opensecrets.org

/I want one.
 
2012-04-09 02:29:04 PM  
Krauthammer, Will, or Samuelson?
 
2012-04-09 02:29:31 PM  

FarkedOver: Jackson Herring: After all, there is no hat like liberal hat

Does this look like a liberal hat?

[www.opensecrets.org image 450x600]

/I want one.


no, it is usually upside down on a street corner with a handful of change in the bottom

/i keed
 
2012-04-09 02:30:20 PM  
So, faced with FDR's own words on the his vision of Social Security, and the fact that records show he actively opposed a pay-go format for the program, the farklibs, in an attempt to turn back the onrush of evidence, claim the article to be obviously wrong because... the Washington Post is conservative.

In other words: It's Monday on Fark.
 
2012-04-09 02:30:28 PM  

tgregory: Land of the free. Where the government can sign you up for a service you never signed up for, threaten you with imprisonment if you don't participate,


centreofthepsyclone.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-04-09 02:30:49 PM  

Serious Black: skullkrusher: how the hell is he gonna fight anything from a wheelchair?

just sayin'

[www.freakingnews.com image 640x596]


I can't post images at work so here is a link http://www.cracked.com/article_19111_the-5-most-incredible-stories-pim ped-out-wheelchairs.html (new window)

I raise you with numbers 5 and 4.
 
2012-04-09 02:31:40 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: beta_plus: Philip Francis Queeg: beta_plus: TofuTheAlmighty: Robert Samuelson, still dumb as a bag of hammers

E.J. Dionne is the only actual liberal at the Washington Post. The other ostensibly leftish columnists are craven morons who value their membership in the Beltway cocktail circuit more than critical thinking.

Yeah, we all know that the newspaper that single handedly destroyed Richard Nixon is run by a bunch of evil monocled twirling mustache republicans.

/no true liberals in America

Richard Nixon single handedly destroyed Richard Nixon.

These guys beg to differ:

[www.toptenz.net image 350x278]

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 395x211]

No they don't. Why would they? There would be nothing to report on if Nixon hadn't grossly overstepped tried to make John Dean the fall guy.


Don't fark with a lawyer with a steel-trap mind. Once the cover-up was in place and Dean realized that Nixon, Haldeman and Ehrlichman were setting him up to be the fall guy, the work Dean had previously done (records of the break-in and coverup he had made and kept) to insulate himself became their undoing.

My favorite part - during the hearings, right after a lunch break a Republican Congressman asked Dean a complex question (likely designed to trip up his response and would likely later be used to paint Dean as a liar), but they had forgotten to turn the mic recorder on. So they did, and when the Congressman began fumbling to remember the multiple-clause question he'd just asked, Dean helpfully repeated it for him. Verbatim. And then answered it.
 
2012-04-09 02:32:24 PM  

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Jackson Herring: After all, there is no hat like liberal hat

Does this look like a liberal hat?

[www.opensecrets.org image 450x600]

/I want one.

no, it is usually upside down on a street corner with a handful of change in the bottom

/i keed


I would take that hat too. I would take a hat filled with day old bagels as well...
 
2012-04-09 02:32:42 PM  

FarkedOver: machoprogrammer: FarkedOver: FDR along with all the other liberal presidents throughout history would be applauding the downfall of America.

[www.sltrib.com image 500x336]


Where are the rest of those? I have seen the one with Jesus in it, and it always makes me lol

All of this artists terrible work can be found here: Link (new window)


That painting confused the hell out of me, so I went to the site, and it contains a handy zoom tool (new window) that explains each facet of the painting on mouseover.

While I appreciate his artistic endeavors, politically, I would like to lock this man in a room full of history and macroeconomic textbooks.
 
2012-04-09 02:33:05 PM  
Heck, FDR fought agin' the original social security. Eleanor won that fight.

And since no pollster has ever bothered to ask me: I'm liberal and okay with SS being need based after your pay-in and interest is recovered.
 
2012-04-09 02:33:07 PM  

Jackson Herring: After all, there is no hat like liberal hat


Michelle Obama wants to make all hats out of onions.
 
2012-04-09 02:33:26 PM  
FDR would have a hard time standing for Social Security if he were alive today. Or then, even.
 
2012-04-09 02:33:46 PM  

tgregory: Land of the free. Where the government can sign you up for a service you never signed up for, threaten you with imprisonment if you don't participate, tell you that the service is for your own retirement, and then deny you the full benefit of the service.


All the counter examples to "land of the free" to choose from and you're going to choose this? SS is the most successful social welfare program in the history of the country. If you want to get all whiny about land of the free how about going with the fact that we incarcerate more people per capita than any country in the world. That's a legitimate land of the free gripe.
 
2012-04-09 02:34:35 PM  

Hobodeluxe: actualhuman: Let me guess, for not being nearly social enough?

exactly. He'd wonder why in the hell we let the rich off so easy.


"The highest marginal tax rate is WHAT?!"
 
2012-04-09 02:34:55 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Nothing has changed about social security itself. The thing that's changed is that our government decided to spend the SS money instead of you, actually saving it.


This post is wrong on many accounts. What has changed about SS is the demographics of the country. Folks are living longer and you can see this by the amount of retirees and workers:

www.socialsecurity.gov

Also, the goverment really cannot 'save' this money as both cash and treasuries are goverment liabilities. Right now, law demands the SS trust fund (about 2.5 Trillion) be invested in interest bearing Treasuries. This may sound good at first glance, until you recognize that Treasuries are a form govermental debt backed by the taxpayer.
 
2012-04-09 02:36:26 PM  

HeadLever: LazarusLong42: Yeah, that's what I thought. He'd be fighting to increase contributions to SSA,

Actaully, with that you have to be carful. The SS trust fund already has about 2.5 Trillion of Goverment Debt that will evenutally end up costing us dearly in the long run if we can't get our overall finances together. Just the interest on these IOUs accounts for about $120 Billion per year.

While SS surplusses help to offset deficts in the 'On-Book' Budget it also increases the amount of money we need to cough up to pay the interest. I am not sure that it is within our best interest to further expand the SS Trust fund and some may even think that it may best to reduce it some.


Oh sure, it's more complicated that it looks at face value. FDR would have been all about raising the contribution cap above $100k though.
 
2012-04-09 02:36:30 PM  
The reason he would fight against it is because he would see that America hadn't lost it's war against the communists, which was his goal. Instead, we prevailed, despite his New Deal, and so if he saw it today he would likely find a way to make it even worse so that true Americans had to fight even harder against the liberals to keep the communists from winning just like he always wanted.
 
2012-04-09 02:37:33 PM  
Grover Cleveland would have voiced his concerns about the Alternative Minimum Tax on two non-consecutive occasions.
 
2012-04-09 02:38:56 PM  

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Jackson Herring: After all, there is no hat like liberal hat

Does this look like a liberal hat?

[www.opensecrets.org image 450x600]

/I want one.

no, it is usually upside down on a street corner with a handful of change in the bottom

/i keed

I would take that hat too. I would take a hat filled with day old bagels as well...


the best sort of bagels to make bagel chips with

1. slice stale bagels in 1/8 - 1/4" chips using a bread slicer or some similar device (deli meat slicer works well but most people don't have those).
2. put on baking pan
3. drizzle with olive oil, garlic salt, chopped onions, etc to taste
4. bake at 350 for 15 minutes or so until crispy and onions have browned
5. enjoy as you would pita chips or just smear some cream cheese on the farkers

/used to run a bagel store
//that's what you do with day old bagels
///no charge for the deliciousness
 
2012-04-09 02:41:33 PM  
There needs to be an opt out option. FICA is a pyramid scheme and I will never get any semblance of that money back
 
2012-04-09 02:41:38 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: SS is the most successful social welfare program in the history of the country.


In the past, it has worked pretty well. However, everyone knows that there are some pretty big problems with SS going forward. Technically, SS would be easy to fix. However, from the political side, it is very dangerous territory.
 
2012-04-09 02:43:51 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: tgregory: Land of the free. Where the government can sign you up for a service you never signed up for, threaten you with imprisonment if you don't participate, tell you that the service is for your own retirement, and then deny you the full benefit of the service.

All the counter examples to "land of the free" to choose from and you're going to choose this? SS is the most successful social welfare program in the history of the country. If you want to get all whiny about land of the free how about going with the fact that we incarcerate more people per capita than any country in the world. That's a legitimate land of the free gripe.


SS is terminal and has been almost from the start. We've had to steadily increase rates and push off benefits over the life of the program, and that pattern continues. It a few short years, we'll have to start raining the general fund to make payments as it outpaces payments of current workers into the system. That 80 year old trend can only have one outcome. Insolvency.
 
2012-04-09 02:44:14 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: tgregory: Land of the free. Where the government can sign you up for a service you never signed up for, threaten you with imprisonment if you don't participate,

[centreofthepsyclone.files.wordpress.com image 547x421]



Ugh. What a terrible thing to force free people to do.
 
2012-04-09 02:44:15 PM  

skullkrusher: the best sort of bagels to make bagel chips with

1. slice stale bagels in 1/8 - 1/4" chips using a bread slicer or some similar device (deli meat slicer works well but most people don't have those).
2. put on baking pan
3. drizzle with olive oil, garlic salt, chopped onions, etc to taste
4. bake at 350 for 15 minutes or so until crispy and onions have browned
5. enjoy as you would pita chips or just smear some cream cheese on the farkers

/used to run a bagel store
//that's what you do with day old bagels
///no charge for the deliciousness


Sounds delicious!
 
2012-04-09 02:45:08 PM  

LazarusLong42: FDR would have been all about raising the contribution cap above $100k though.


IIRC, the cap is above 100K.
 
2012-04-09 02:45:21 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: tgregory: Land of the free. Where the government can sign you up for a service you never signed up for, threaten you with imprisonment if you don't participate, tell you that the service is for your own retirement, and then deny you the full benefit of the service.

All the counter examples to "land of the free" to choose from and you're going to choose this? SS is the most successful social welfare program in the history of the country. If you want to get all whiny about land of the free how about going with the fact that we incarcerate more people per capita than any country in the world. That's a legitimate land of the free gripe.



There's lots of gripes, but since this thread was on Social Security.................................................

(Just saying.)
 
2012-04-09 02:48:08 PM  

Brostorm: There needs to be an opt out option. FICA is a pyramid scheme and I will never get any semblance of that money back


Oh, we will get it back - right out of the General Fund. However, that will result in larger deficits and more public debt.

As a note, the current SS Trust Fund is considered Govermental Debt.
 
2012-04-09 02:48:20 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: beta_plus: While there is no way Social Security has changed beyond FDR's intent, it is completely justifiable to make up that the WaPo is now hard line conservative.

Nothing has changed about social security itself. The thing that's changed is that our government decided to spend the SS money instead of you, actually saving it.


That's actually a requirement by law that extra SS funds have to be invested into T Bills. Of course there is no low that says we always have to run deficits.
 
2012-04-09 02:49:52 PM  
"Who the fark cares about SS!? How did you manage to return me from the dead!?"
-FDR on Social Security in 2012
 
2012-04-09 02:50:36 PM  

EWreckedSean: Insolvency.


Not really. It could just be reduced compensation once the Trust Fund goes dry. You will still get some money out of it, but it will only be 70% or so compared to retirees get now.
 
2012-04-09 02:50:38 PM  

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: the best sort of bagels to make bagel chips with

1. slice stale bagels in 1/8 - 1/4" chips using a bread slicer or some similar device (deli meat slicer works well but most people don't have those).
2. put on baking pan
3. drizzle with olive oil, garlic salt, chopped onions, etc to taste
4. bake at 350 for 15 minutes or so until crispy and onions have browned
5. enjoy as you would pita chips or just smear some cream cheese on the farkers

/used to run a bagel store
//that's what you do with day old bagels
///no charge for the deliciousness

Sounds delicious!


the danger is that most people would get full eating 2 bagels. Chips are pretty much dehydrated so you can put down 3 bagels without really realizing it. BAM, 1200 calories
 
2012-04-09 02:50:41 PM  

HeadLever: LazarusLong42: FDR would have been all about raising the contribution cap above $100k though.

IIRC, the cap is above 100K.


Not much more. ~$110k this year.
 
2012-04-09 02:51:34 PM  

HeadLever: In the past, it has worked pretty well. However, everyone knows that there are some pretty big problems with SS going forward. Technically, SS would be easy to fix. However, from the political side, it is very dangerous territory.


No argument here.

EWreckedSean: SS is terminal and has been almost from the start. We've had to steadily increase rates and push off benefits over the life of the program, and that pattern continues. It a few short years, we'll have to start raining the general fund to make payments as it outpaces payments of current workers into the system. That 80 year old trend can only have one outcome. Insolvency.


See above. SS needs some work, no argument here.

tgregory: There's lots of gripes, but since this thread was on Social Security.................................................


I don't think having to pay into SS makes me any less free. Sure, taxes suck, but I understand the importance of taking care of our elderly and disabled citizens. One of which I hope to be one day.
 
2012-04-09 02:51:47 PM  

skullkrusher: the danger is that most people would get full eating 2 bagels. Chips are pretty much dehydrated so you can put down 3 bagels without really realizing it. BAM, 1200 calories


Are you including the cream cheese in that calorie count?
 
2012-04-09 02:54:35 PM  
Genghis Khan would have been enraged over Adam Carola's departure from Celebrity Apprentice.
 
2012-04-09 02:55:09 PM  

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: the danger is that most people would get full eating 2 bagels. Chips are pretty much dehydrated so you can put down 3 bagels without really realizing it. BAM, 1200 calories

Are you including the cream cheese in that calorie count?


no and that was on the low end depending on size, whether malt or sugar is used (ugh sugar), white flour vs ww, etc. Bagels are probably one of the most deceptively fattening foods out there.
 
2012-04-09 02:57:20 PM  

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: skullkrusher: the danger is that most people would get full eating 2 bagels. Chips are pretty much dehydrated so you can put down 3 bagels without really realizing it. BAM, 1200 calories

Are you including the cream cheese in that calorie count?

no and that was on the low end depending on size, whether malt or sugar is used (ugh sugar), white flour vs ww, etc. Bagels are probably one of the most deceptively fattening foods out there.


With the cream cheese we could be talking a whole days worth of calories consumed in a sitting.... damn.
 
2012-04-09 02:58:45 PM  

EWreckedSean: SS is terminal and has been almost from the start.


Wrong.
 
2012-04-09 02:59:23 PM  
Andrew Jackson would give the hatters the finger and if they didn't like it he would whip their ass with his cane until somoene was able to pull him off
 
2012-04-09 03:07:38 PM  

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: skullkrusher: the danger is that most people would get full eating 2 bagels. Chips are pretty much dehydrated so you can put down 3 bagels without really realizing it. BAM, 1200 calories

Are you including the cream cheese in that calorie count?

no and that was on the low end depending on size, whether malt or sugar is used (ugh sugar), white flour vs ww, etc. Bagels are probably one of the most deceptively fattening foods out there.

With the cream cheese we could be talking a whole days worth of calories consumed in a sitting.... damn.


yep... that's a lotta bagel chips and cream cheese tho ;)
 
2012-04-09 03:08:02 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: I don't think having to pay into SS makes me any less free. Sure, taxes suck, but I understand the importance of taking care of our elderly and disabled citizens. One of which I hope to be one day.



There are better ways to take care of the elderly and disabled than threatening free people with fines and imprisonment for not participating. A forced solution (in a free society) should never even be considered.

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain."
 
2012-04-09 03:11:05 PM  

tgregory: Dusk-You-n-Me: I don't think having to pay into SS makes me any less free. Sure, taxes suck, but I understand the importance of taking care of our elderly and disabled citizens. One of which I hope to be one day.


There are better ways to take care of the elderly and disabled than threatening free people with fines and imprisonment for not participating. A forced solution (in a free society) should never even be considered.

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain."


I forgot that you are THAT guy.
 
2012-04-09 03:14:25 PM  

tgregory: There are better ways to take care of the elderly and disabled than threatening free people with fines and imprisonment for not participating. A forced solution (in a free society) should never even be considered.


Yeah. Taxes suck. Deal with it.
 
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