Ishkur: redmid17: Does he grab Martin and keep him there? Does he yell out "Stop or I'll shoot!"? There has to some kind of evidence of an actual detention.

Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time. I want to read those transcripts. I'm sure when they are released, they will paint a completely different picture than Zimmerman's alibi. Because the two stories don't even relate in any way, which means one is a complete bold-faced lie.

Considering Zimmerman was the one looking for trouble and Martin was the one eating snack food and going home, I'm going to side with Martin for now.

But I will always concede to the facts.

I think they relate pretty well.

Zimmerman sees Trayvon and talks to police.
Trayvon sees Zimmerman and puts on his hoodie.
Zimmerman tells police that Trayvon is checking him out.
Trayvon runs and says he lost the man (he hides by the first house where the fight takes place)
Zimmerman says that he lost the kid.
Trayvon says that he is not going to run, but he's going to walk fast. (that is a plan, not what he is currently doing)

Zimmerman heads back to his car. Trayvon is hiding at the house in the middle.
Zimmerman spots and confronts Trayvon or Trayvon confronts Zimmerman.
They exchange "Why are you following me/Do you have a problem?" "What are you doing here"
Someone shoves/punches the other.

Phinn: Tickle Mittens: It is not legal to follow someone (particularly while armed) with the intent of interfering with their legal behavior. The instant Martin made it known the interference was unwelcome, the onus was on Zimmerman to withdraw from the altercation he instigated, and Martin was entitled to kill him for under Florida law.

Gee, this almost sounds official and legalistic, but, alas, is completely worthless as a recitation of the actual law.

It's called harassment. Most people avoid it by not being psychotic douchbags. If they can't, maybe they'll assault a police officer, then stalk and kill an unarmed child.

Ishkur: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Where are you getting all these details from? Martin ran from Zinmermang? And Zimmermang physically detained him? Source please.

You HAVE read the 9/11 and Trayvon's phone transcripts, right?

The only thing that is revealed form the the 911 call is that Zimmerman moved to the back yard to get a better view as the 911 operator was asking which way Martin was running and Zimmerman was trying to observe his direction to direct the police.

He never confronted or detained Martin on the 911 call, and there is nothing to suggest he did afterwards. The physical evidence suggests the altercation occurred as Zimmerman was walking back to his car, which would support Zimmerman's story.

Ishkur: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: please quote the part of the transcript that states that Martin ran, and Zimmermang detained him

9/11:
"This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something."
"these assholes they always get away."
"he's running"
"he ran"
"Actually, could you have him [police] call me, and I'll tell him where I'm at?"
"Oh crap, I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is"

Martin cell:
[M] "What are you following me for?"
[Z] "What are you doing here?"

Sounds like detainment to me. Obviously, people would take offense to that and would balk at the notion. I'm guessing that's what starts the tussle.

Go look up the word detainment.

Ishkur: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: please quote the part of the transcript that states that Martin ran, and Zimmermang detained him

9/11:
"This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something."
"these assholes they always get away."
"he's running"
"he ran"
"Actually, could you have him [police] call me, and I'll tell him where I'm at?"
"Oh crap, I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is"

Martin cell:
[M] "What are you following me for?"
[Z] "What are you doing here?"

Sounds like detainment to me. Obviously, people would take offense to that and would balk at the notion. I'm guessing that's what starts the tussle.

So you are saying that Zimmerman didn't know where Martin was and then Martin confronted him with the question about why he was following him. That is your evidence that Zimmerman detained him??

Enough already. Was this the only person in the USA to be a victim of a unjustified homicide, or what?

There are probably hundreds or thousands of people getting killed for little to no reason in that country every day, and yes, sometimes the perpetrators aren't going to be punished.

Ishkur: redmid17: I'd have to check my wireless agreement, but I'm fairly certain there would be a lot of public outcry against that. Also I think you're vastly underestimating how much infrastructure would be required to put into place to achieve this.

I work with databases. Not that much. I guess its different in the States. In Canada, every call is recorded and logged and only accessible for criminal investigations, which would've really been useful in this case.

There are like 3 billion cell calls every day in the US. That would be a pretty big database.

redmid17: Ishkur: redmid17: I'd have to check my wireless agreement, but I'm fairly certain there would be a lot of public outcry against that. Also I think you're vastly underestimating how much infrastructure would be required to put into place to achieve this.

I work with databases. Not that much. I guess its different in the States. In Canada, every call is recorded and logged and only accessible for criminal investigations, which would've really been useful in this case.

There is a record of every call made and they do have text records, but the ability to record, convert, and store the hundreds of millions of phone calls made every day is pretty well beyond the sprint/att/t-mobile. The NSA, on the other hand, not so much.

I dont think the NSA has the storage capacity to deal with that.

Freakin Rican: and heres our daily racism thread

let the hate flow......

goooooood goooooooood



And soon you all will join the dark side of the force.

Obligatory

UCFRoadWarrior: JWideman: Here's the thing that I think black people should try to remember:
There's exactly as much evidence that Zimmerman murdered this kid (as opposed to self-defense) as there was that OJ killed his ex.

You just come from the Black Panther rally?

OJ murdered his ex and Ron Goldman. That is fact...sue me OJ to prove me wrong. When the blood of your victims, especially Ron Goldman, was found in your car....that is very convincing. OJ would have been convicted except for the awful handling of the case by Marcia Clark...who got totally schooled by Johnnie Cochran. OJ got thoroughly destroyed and embarrased in the civil suit

George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense. That is not my opinion, that is fact. The key evidence shows that Martin jumped and was beating Zimmerman when he capped Martin. These "witnesses" that the Lynch Zimmerman media keep bringing up are totally un-credible since they did not see the incident. And, the side of the issue taken by Jew-killing, Black Racist Al Sharpton is always the WRONG side....and those are also facts about Sharpton

I can't tell if you're trolling, sarcastic, or deluded. There's no evidence that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense, and there's no evidence that he did. The only evidence we have at all is that a) Zimmerman acted against both his training and the advice of 911, b) there was a confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin, and c) Zimmerman killed Martin. These are facts. Until a witness comes forward that either contradicts or confirms Zimmerman's claim of self-defense, the rest is speculation.

OtherLittleGuy: Since this thread will end as well as any other Trayvon Martin thread...

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 534x800]

...here's a hotlinked picture of Katie Featherston, actress from the Paranormal Activity film series.

mother of god.....i...never....


Oh, those are real.

IBIMB.

redmid17: Ishkur: I alone am best: There are like 3 billion cell calls every day in the US. That would be a pretty big database.

Storage space is cheap and RDBMS' are fast. Google processes billions of queries a second. Maybe they don't, but I always assume they did. 1984 telescreen and all that.

Google processes millions of *text* queries a second. I worked in enterprise storage. The amount of space and hardware needed to record and convert that on the fly (or store and convert later) is mind boggling huge.

I work for a company that makes SAN equipment so I am all for it!

DROxINxTHExWIND: Silly Jesus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silly Jesus: DROxINxTHExWIND: Silly Jesus:

Silly Jesus
Fark account number: 746938
Account created: 2012-01-22 21:09:11


Dammit all. Oh well, I'll never get that time back.

I've never understood this Fark meme / trump-card.

Were you automatically a troll and/or wrong for the first few months of your account, or does this nonsensical meme not apply to you?

Fark should just have an option to block all new users. That's the ticket.

It's Dro, that's his MO. Argue with him, presenting facts and logic, and when he runs out of bluster he'll find some inane reason to claim that he's been trolled all along. Also, apparently only Farkers who signed up prior to 2008 are legit posters and not altar or troll accounts, apparently. I don't get it.

That's becoming painfully obvious, very quickly. His opinions were different to an extent that I thought a dialogue with him would be interesting, but he quickly devolved into pants-on-head-retarded with his flippant dismissal of facts and logic.


Y'all should start a club or something.

If we did, you'd call it the KKK and we'd start this whole conversation all over again.

Trayvon Martin's Twitter feed has been found, and what his Tweets show may shock you (assuming you know nothing about teenagers thugs)

fixed that for you subby

i guess that explains the controversy.

ivan: Mog32Kupo: So let me get this straight:

White woman goes missing: NEWSWORTHY
Ethnic woman goes missing: meh.

Ethnic man kills white guy: meh.
white guy kills ethnic man AND IS NOT ARRESTED: NEWSWORTHY

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 549x362]

That there is the point everyone keeps missing.

Except Zimmerman isn't White.

He's part Mestizo (Mother) and part Jew (father).

Trayvon was shot in self-defense so there is no need to arrest Zimmerman.

Also, "normal" teenagers and not out of school on suspension, or talking about selling drugs and "swinging on a bus driver" in their Tweets and Twitpics.

Bag of Hammers: ManateeGag: so, now it's OK that Zimmerman murdered him, right?

apparently.

According to my scumbag co-worker this is good because "it sends a message".

And that message is: "Don't be a black male in this country. Just don't."

fark80: Also, "normal" teenagers and not out of school on suspension, or talking about selling drugs and "swinging on a bus driver" in their Tweets and Twitpics.

That's something that keeps getting posted over and over by people. It doesn't matter because whether he was a punk trouble maker going nowhere, or an A+ honors student doesn't effect whether someone else has the right to kill him, but Martin's supporters continually hammer out the same old "he was a good kid" lines trying to bring that into his credit while simultaneously saying that anyone contradicting those character assessments is just trying to "obfuscate" or assassinate a dead child's character when he's not around to defend himself. So you can only bring up facts if those facts are in Martin's favor because those are the rules they just made up.

But the fact is we was a punk ass trouble maker, up to no good, getting suspended, starting fights, glamorizing thug life. That doesn't mean he deserved to die. But it is not accurate to portray him as some kind of angel.

Trayvon's brother also has some really interesting Tweets:



http://i.imgur.com/6UVfE.png

BeesNuts: One thing appears to matter in this case, and that is whether or not Zimmerman was being attacked by Martin at the time of the shooting. Everything else, every fact about Trayvon's past, about laws he may or may not have broken, things he may or may not have said or written months before that, whether he had tattoos, was in a gang, loved or hated school, *EVERYTHING* else has absolutely nothing to do with the case, and has no legal bearing on the outcome of that case.

SO WHY IN THE EVER LIVING FARK IS THIS CRAP ALL THAT THE PRESS IS TALKING ABOUT?

Fark sakes.


And you're 100% wrong. These things will be looked at to see if his state of mind can be discerned from what he said to people or what he posted on-line. It could be very important, actually make the difference as to whether charges are brought. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but it matters.

Ishkur: fark80: Trayvon was shot in self-defense

Self-defense? What was Trayvon going to do, shove skittles down his throat?

Did you just hear about the Trayvon Martin shooting 10 minutes ago? I'm just asking because that's the only explanation I can come up with for why you would ask a question that indicates you haven't heard any details about what happened.

Or .... ah, you're a troll and being intentionally obtuse is your game. Got it.

ivan: Mog32Kupo: So let me get this straight:

White woman goes missing: NEWSWORTHY
Ethnic woman goes missing: meh.

Ethnic man kills white guy: meh.
white guy kills ethnic man AND IS NOT ARRESTED AND IS NOT HELD ON A JILLION DOLLARS BAIL UNTIL TRIAL: NEWSWORTHY

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 549x362]

That there is the point everyone keeps missing.

/FTFY

Look, they have the shooter, they have the gun, the have the corpse, they have witnesses. Zimmerman should still be cooling his ass in jail pending more bail than the gross national product of Saudi Arabia until his trial.
That's what people are pissed about.
Instead he walks the streets free after killing an unarmed person while the poor schmuck who gets caught with a dime bag gets to spend a weekend or more in the pound. It doesn't make any sense. None.

Well, except for the fact that this was just another young black male. They don't count. Apparently.

Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon went for his gun:

Link (new window)

The gun did not fully cycle after being fired:

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman's handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.

Link (new window)


Why didn't it fully cycle? Because someone was holding onto the slide. If the gun slide doesn't slide all the way back, then the next bullet cannot be pushed into place by the magazine spring.

Ishkur: spiderpaz: Did you just hear about the Trayvon Martin shooting 10 minutes ago? I'm just asking because that's the only explanation I can come up with for why you would ask a question that indicates you haven't heard any details about what happened.

There's no indication that Zimmerman was at any point ever in mortal peril to the point that it necessitated the use of deadly force.

Or vice versa, so you're question is pretty stupid. There are endless scenarios that could have unfolded. You must have latched on to the "Jew stalks and murders defenseless well-meaning child because he just hates black so much" version because of your own prejudices that you are projecting on to the incident. You might want to seek help about that.

rewind2846: Look, they have the shooter, they have the gun, the have the corpse, they have witnesses.

Here's the problem, they have all that, and it all backs Zimmerman's story of self defense.

ChuDogg: Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon went for his gun:

Link (new window)

The gun did not fully cycle after being fired:

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman's handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.

Link (new window)


Why didn't it fully cycle? Because someone was holding onto the slide. If the gun slide doesn't slide all the way back, then the next bullet cannot be pushed into place by the magazine spring.

If that's the case then Martin's finger prints will be all over the weapon, and his story will be supported by forensics, and maybe the news can start reporting about other shiat finally - not as though anything important is going on in the world. One kid gets killed in Florida when hundreds are killed every day over turf wars on American streets, none of which get any recognition.

JWideman: UCFRoadWarrior: JWideman: Here's the thing that I think black people should try to remember:
There's exactly as much evidence that Zimmerman murdered this kid (as opposed to self-defense) as there was that OJ killed his ex.

You just come from the Black Panther rally?

OJ murdered his ex and Ron Goldman. That is fact...sue me OJ to prove me wrong. When the blood of your victims, especially Ron Goldman, was found in your car....that is very convincing. OJ would have been convicted except for the awful handling of the case by Marcia Clark...who got totally schooled by Johnnie Cochran. OJ got thoroughly destroyed and embarrased in the civil suit

George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense. That is not my opinion, that is fact. The key evidence shows that Martin jumped and was beating Zimmerman when he capped Martin. These "witnesses" that the Lynch Zimmerman media keep bringing up are totally un-credible since they did not see the incident. And, the side of the issue taken by Jew-killing, Black Racist Al Sharpton is always the WRONG side....and those are also facts about Sharpton

I can't tell if you're trolling, sarcastic, or deluded. There's no evidence that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense, and there's no evidence that he did. The only evidence we have at all is that a) Zimmerman acted against both his training and the advice of 911, b) there was a confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin, and c) Zimmerman killed Martin. These are facts. Until a witness comes forward that either contradicts or confirms Zimmerman's claim of self-defense, the rest is speculation.

Zimmerman's response to "we don't need you to do that.":
"ok"

So how do you come to the conclusion he did not comply?

Ishkur: Zimmerman self defended himself by chasing and shooting an unarmed teenager clutching a bag of skittles?

Here's the problem: None of the available evidence so far supports that version of events.

It's been documented for you in this thread.