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(Economist)   I am shocked, shocked to learn that the media treatment of politicians such as Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin have made women less inclined to enter politics   (economist.com) divider line 183
    More: Obvious, Rick Santorum, swing states  
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871 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Apr 2012 at 3:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-09 12:09:36 PM  
That's exactly what the conservatives want -- fewer women to speak up for women's rights, so they can erode them. And they say Obama is the muslim :-\
 
2012-04-09 12:19:36 PM  
if they can't stand the heat, then they should go back to the kitchen
 
2012-04-09 12:27:55 PM  
I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations. From dozens of stupid blogs and shiat like Drudge, maybe I guess. But not from the likes of any networks.

And I find it hard to believe that any woman confident enough to run for national office would be scared off by some douchebag blogger making fun of her shoes or something.
 
2012-04-09 12:32:53 PM  
All politicians get beat up, over everything. if you can't take it, you shouldn't go into politics.
 
2012-04-09 12:35:38 PM  

EvilEgg: All politicians get beat up, over everything. if you can't take it, you shouldn't go into politics.


This.
 
2012-04-09 12:39:11 PM  
Whoa Subby...we have a Hillary Clinton trifecta in play here...

farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2012-04-09 12:46:29 PM  

EvilEgg: All politicians get beat up, over everything. if you can't take it, you shouldn't go into politics.


Yes and no.

Palin wasn't attacked because she was a woman entering politics. She was attacked because she was clearly not cut out for the job and then attempted to paint the folks pointing this out as being afraid of strong conservative women.

Clinton however, was attacked because the GOP will take any chance they can get to slander a woman in the public eye who doesn't toe their policy lines.

Basically the GOP is populated by bad people.
 
2012-04-09 12:49:21 PM  

pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations


"Governor Palin, what do you think of the Bush doctrine" is a sexist remark.
"Governor Palin, what newspapers do you read" is a sexist remark.
"Governor Palin, do you think....." is a sexist remark.

This is just good innocent fun:

ichlugebullets.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-04-09 12:51:22 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: EvilEgg: All politicians get beat up, over everything. if you can't take it, you shouldn't go into politics.

Yes and no.

Palin wasn't attacked because she was a woman entering politics. She was attacked because she was clearly not cut out for the job and then attempted to paint the folks pointing this out as being afraid of strong conservative women.

Clinton however, was attacked because the GOP will take any chance they can get to slander a woman in the public eye who doesn't toe their policy lines.

Basically the GOP is populated by bad people.


I don't think the GOP attacked her because she was a woman, I think they attacked her because she was an astoundingly competent woman. She might have made a good President, but does make a really fine Sec of State.
 
2012-04-09 12:53:12 PM  

EvilEgg: I don't think the GOP attacked her because she was a woman, I think they attacked her because she was an astoundingly competent woman.


So...you didn't follow the 2008 election, did you?

This was the second most disorganized campaign I have ever seen for a serious politician, second only to Martha Coakley in Massachusetts.
 
2012-04-09 12:54:44 PM  
The media's critical treatment of Palin was almost entirely deserved and appropriate.
 
2012-04-09 12:56:57 PM  

what_now: EvilEgg: I don't think the GOP attacked her because she was a woman, I think they attacked her because she was an astoundingly competent woman.

So...you didn't follow the 2008 election, did you?

This was the second most disorganized campaign I have ever seen for a serious politician, second only to Martha Coakley in Massachusetts.


Only when you compare hers to Obama's. That man is really freaking good at campaigning. I like Obama and I think he is doing an okay job, I don't care for Hillary, she is very competent, but not very inspiring.
 
2012-04-09 12:59:46 PM  

EvilEgg: Only when you compare hers to Obama's.


No, her campaign was farking awful. Well, it was better than Gingrich's, but it looked like Romney's campaign this time, except no ability to recover except by throwing everything she could at Obama to hope something sticked.
 
2012-04-09 01:03:03 PM  

EvilEgg: what_now: EvilEgg: I don't think the GOP attacked her because she was a woman, I think they attacked her because she was an astoundingly competent woman.

So...you didn't follow the 2008 election, did you?

This was the second most disorganized campaign I have ever seen for a serious politician, second only to Martha Coakley in Massachusetts.

Only when you compare hers to Obama's. That man is really freaking good at campaigning. I like Obama and I think he is doing an okay job, I don't care for Hillary, she is very competent, but not very inspiring.


She certainly seemed to not have considered the possibility of loosing until it was too late. Weather you want to call that poor organizational skills or just arrogance is just of a matter of perspective.
 
2012-04-09 01:09:37 PM  

what_now: This was the second most disorganized campaign I have ever seen for a serious politician, second only to Martha Coakley in Massachusetts.


While her campaign wasn't the greatest, let's not be insulting. Sec Clinton was actually present for the whole campaign. Coakley actually left the country during hers.
 
2012-04-09 01:11:02 PM  

pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations.


Clinton tearing up as a news story comes to mind. Also, Fox News used the "just asking questions" meme to ask if Americans thought she came off as a biatch.

I'd also argue to the author that women are disproportionately tasked with keeping their family stable; even if they are not a homemaker, they feel (and often their spouse's feel) they're supposed to make the home. That means that women probably balk more at how private lives become public lives.
 
2012-04-09 01:17:18 PM  
Here's the reality of the whole thing. The USA has to deal on a continual basis with various countries who don't respect women to begin with. We need a President who can deal with world leaders who either hate women or don't respect them as a matter of their culture.

I used to not really like Hilary. But I would rather have a ball busting biatch like her in the Oval Office than a manufactured prom queen airhead who got her ass kicked by Katie Couric to deal with these foreign leaders who already think she's inferior right out of the gate.
 
2012-04-09 01:19:23 PM  
If you can't stand the heat, get your asses back in the kitchen
 
2012-04-09 01:19:45 PM  

Mugato: Here's the reality of the whole thing. The USA has to deal on a continual basis with various countries who don't respect women to begin with. We need a President who can deal with world leaders who either hate women or don't respect them as a matter of their culture.

I used to not really like Hilary. But I would rather have a ball busting biatch like her in the Oval Office than a manufactured prom queen airhead who got her ass kicked by Katie Couric to deal with these foreign leaders who already think she's inferior right out of the gate.


I think Sec Hilary would make a good President now that she's been Sec of State. I'm not sure I would have been so confident before that, however.
 
2012-04-09 01:21:35 PM  

mahuika: pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations.

Clinton tearing up as a news story comes to mind. Also, Fox News used the "just asking questions" meme to ask if Americans thought she came off as a biatch.

I'd also argue to the author that women are disproportionately tasked with keeping their family stable; even if they are not a homemaker, they feel (and often their spouse's feel) they're supposed to make the home. That means that women probably balk more at how private lives become public lives.


I know John Boehner cries a lot. You know how I know? Because it's a news story. Any time a politician cries at some public event or during an interview, the media runs it. Nothing sexist there.

The "is she a biatch" thing, I guess. Maybe. I'd be surprised if there's never been a story/article/poll about a male politician asking "Is so-and-so an asshole?".
 
2012-04-09 01:27:00 PM  

pudding7: mahuika: pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations.

Clinton tearing up as a news story comes to mind. Also, Fox News used the "just asking questions" meme to ask if Americans thought she came off as a biatch.

I'd also argue to the author that women are disproportionately tasked with keeping their family stable; even if they are not a homemaker, they feel (and often their spouse's feel) they're supposed to make the home. That means that women probably balk more at how private lives become public lives.

I know John Boehner cries a lot. You know how I know? Because it's a news story. Any time a politician cries at some public event or during an interview, the media runs it. Nothing sexist there.


But she didn't cry. If you watch the video she basically pauses emotionally. It was reported on like she pulled a Boehner.

The "is she a biatch" thing, I guess. Maybe. I'd be surprised if there's never been a story/article/poll about a male politician asking "Is so-and-so an asshole?".

I personally wouldn't say one poll about any male politician somewhere out there that you think might exist calling a man an asshole is equivalent to a newstory on a major network indicating that a female politician a biatch.
 
2012-04-09 01:30:41 PM  
Clinton is more of a glass-ceiling example than Palin
 
2012-04-09 01:42:43 PM  

what_now: EvilEgg: I don't think the GOP attacked her because she was a woman, I think they attacked her because she was an astoundingly competent woman.

So...you didn't follow the 2008 election, did you?

This was the second most disorganized campaign I have ever seen for a serious politician, second only to Martha Coakley in Massachusetts.


Women: Why can't they campaign?
 
2012-04-09 02:03:10 PM  
assets.nydailynews.com

SHUT UP NUTMEG!
 
2012-04-09 02:19:52 PM  

EvilEgg: what_now: EvilEgg: I don't think the GOP attacked her because she was a woman, I think they attacked her because she was an astoundingly competent woman.

So...you didn't follow the 2008 election, did you?

This was the second most disorganized campaign I have ever seen for a serious politician, second only to Martha Coakley in Massachusetts.

Only when you compare hers to Obama's. That man is really freaking good at campaigning. I like Obama and I think he is doing an okay job, I don't care for Hillary, she is very competent, but not very inspiring.


She based her strategy on assuming that winning all of California's delegates would give her the nomination, not realizing that California is not a winner-take-all state, and divides its delegates proportionately to each candidate.

Let me state that again. She farking lost because she did not know the electoral rules of the largest farking Blue State in the union.
 
2012-04-09 02:35:27 PM  
Eh, they're both tough old broads, they can handle it.
 
2012-04-09 02:37:23 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Clinton is more of a glass-ceiling example than Palin


Yeah, Palin is more of a glass-coffee-table-and-I'm-caught-under-it example.

Seriously, though, I think an epic showdown for 2016 would pit Hillary against Huntsman. They would BOTH just have to get their shiat together, is all.
 
2012-04-09 02:52:50 PM  

pudding7: The "is she a biatch" thing, I guess. Maybe. I'd be surprised if there's never been a story/article/poll about a male politician asking "Is so-and-so an asshole?".


A man being an "asshole" doesn't quite have the negative connotation that calling a woman a "biatch" has. I don't think the two are comparable.
 
2012-04-09 03:22:04 PM  

pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations.


The most 'sexist' treatment of either of them was the constant "Palin is hot LOL!" nonsense that kept getting bandied about.
 
2012-04-09 03:22:27 PM  
Considering you can't go through a Fark comments section without 1/3 of the comments being about how hot they are (or aren't), it's pretty clear that politics is still a boy's club on both sides of the aisle.
 
2012-04-09 03:23:09 PM  
Tying this in with the "texting with Hillary" thread:

Sarah Palin: Sure is tough being a woman in politics these days, huh Hillary?

Hillary Clinton: How would you know?
 
2012-04-09 03:23:36 PM  
Nobody expects the Hillary Clinton trifecta!
 
2012-04-09 03:23:44 PM  

Di Atribe: pudding7: The "is she a biatch" thing, I guess. Maybe. I'd be surprised if there's never been a story/article/poll about a male politician asking "Is so-and-so an asshole?".

A man being an "asshole" doesn't quite have the negative connotation that calling a woman a "biatch" has. I don't think the two are comparable.


Define connotation in this context. I'm aware of the irony inherent in that statement.
 
2012-04-09 03:24:55 PM  

sprawl15: pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations.

The most 'sexist' treatment of either of them was the constant "Palin is hot LOL!" nonsense that kept getting bandied about.


Honest question: Do you think Palin would've gotten half as far as she did if she were unattractive?
 
2012-04-09 03:25:43 PM  
i think i liked hillary better when we weren't hearing much about her.
 
2012-04-09 03:26:24 PM  
I don't dislike Sarah Palin because she's a woman. I dislike her because she's ignorant and egotistical.
 
2012-04-09 03:28:38 PM  
"When I hear a statement like that coming from a woman candidate with any kind of perceived whine about that excess criticism, or maybe a sharper microscope put on her, I think, "Man, that doesn't do us any good, women in politics, or women in general, trying to progress this country."

--Sarah Palin, on complaints from Hillary Clinton's campaign about sexist coverage in race for The White House, Spring 2008.
 
2012-04-09 03:28:46 PM  

netweavr: Define connotation in this context. I'm aware of the irony inherent in that statement.


A man being an asshole: strong, bullish, gets things done

A woman being a biatch: mean, angry, pms'ing

I dunno. I don't think most people call Hillary a biatch out of admiration. And maybe no one calls men assholes out of admiration. It just seems to me (personal syntax, admittedly) that being called a biatch is worse.
 
2012-04-09 03:29:24 PM  

Di Atribe: sprawl15: pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations.

The most 'sexist' treatment of either of them was the constant "Palin is hot LOL!" nonsense that kept getting bandied about.

Honest question: Do you think Palin would've gotten half as far as she did if she were unattractive?


Probably. She wasn't exactly catering to the most intelligent voter base. That said, I think the McCain campaign put a lot of stock in her looks as a factor, so that's obviously caveated.
 
2012-04-09 03:33:52 PM  
All I'm reading here is that women want special treatment.
 
2012-04-09 03:34:15 PM  

Plenty of research shows that women who stand for election do just as well as their male counterparts: they raise as much money, scoop up as many votes and are no less likely to win. The problem, according to a recent study and survey by Jennifer Lawless of American University and Richard Fox of Loyola Marymount University, is that so few choose to run. Even though a record number are running for the Senate, women are competing in fewer than a third of congressional races this year.

a record number are running for the Senate


Aw, who needs a supportable thesis anyway. Just make shiat up to sell copy.

Was it just me or was that article confusing, meandering, and completely ineffective at making a point? Yeah, Clinton got some flack in '08 and is now one of the most respected statespersons in government. Yeah, Sarah Palin got made fun of for being vapid, and she was the butt of many jokes involving her sex. And most definitely, Nancy Pelosi is the target of an inordinate amount of bile. But if the point is that this kind of treatment of female politicians discourages participation, you're going to have to demonstrate some kind of discouragement.

Sounds like more and more women are starting to realize that the only way they will get representation is through participation.

Good for them. Keep it up, fark the haters.
 
2012-04-09 03:34:16 PM  
Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State. If you're a woman afraid of entering politics because you might only end up as Secretary of State, you're doing it wrong.
 
2012-04-09 03:34:32 PM  

Di Atribe: A man being an asshole: strong, bullish, gets things done

A woman being a biatch: mean, angry, pms'ing

I dunno. I don't think most people call Hillary a biatch out of admiration. And maybe no one calls men assholes out of admiration. It just seems to me (personal syntax, admittedly) that being called a biatch is worse.



It's weird that as a woman you think that the word used to describe a mean woman is worse than the word used to describe a mean man.

FWIW, I think you're actually help proving the point - Treating women exactly the same as you treat men is "sexist."
 
2012-04-09 03:34:45 PM  
If biatches can't take the heat, biatches need to stay in the kitchen. What a ridiculous premise, 'oh noes, it's too hard, I won't be put up on a pedestal and given unquestioned obedience and fawning, I'll be treated like a man, I can't handle the hard stuff'. Get the fk out of here with that mess.

Real women can deal.
 
2012-04-09 03:35:23 PM  
To be fair, neither woman has exactly done herself favors, most of the stuff the media has latched onto is something the did that was dumb. Interesting thing is that HIllary is obviously smarter than Palin(My dog is obviously much smarter than Palin, of course), and as a result, hasn't had as many attacks.

Yes, there is a lot of Ambush Journalism involved also, but they just give these people ammo to use against them. Triple-think everything you say, and people will have a lot less to attack you with.
 
2012-04-09 03:36:03 PM  

EvilEgg: All politicians get beat up, over everything. if you can't take it, you shouldn't go into politics.


Done in four.
 
2012-04-09 03:36:52 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: what_now: This was the second most disorganized campaign I have ever seen for a serious politician, second only to Martha Coakley in Massachusetts.

While her campaign wasn't the greatest, let's not be insulting. Sec Clinton was actually present for the whole campaign. Coakley actually left the country during hers.


I developed a theory about why Bill's campaigns were so well run and Hillary's weren't. I think she was the driving force on his campaigns that kept things running so he could just campaign and be Bill and she did a good job of it. When the roles switched and it was his job to keep the train on the tracks so she could focus on campaigning, well Bill kinda suck at that and kept letting things get derailed.
 
2012-04-09 03:37:04 PM  

Di Atribe: netweavr: Define connotation in this context. I'm aware of the irony inherent in that statement.

A man being an asshole: strong, bullish, gets things done

A woman being a biatch: mean, angry, pms'ing

I dunno. I don't think most people call Hillary a biatch out of admiration. And maybe no one calls men assholes out of admiration. It just seems to me (personal syntax, admittedly) that being called a biatch is worse.


I guess I'm not seeing how you can compare gender-based insults directly. I mean, men might react to insults differently in a manner completely independent of the insult. That would imply the insult itself is irrelevant for the given complaint (biatch is worse than asshole).

I understand I'm being pedantic, it just popped into my head while I was considering your statement. Particularly "a man being an "asshole" doesn't quite have the negative connotation that calling a woman a "biatch" has" made me wonder if calling a woman an "asshole" had the same negative connotation as calling a man one (or calling a man a "biatch" for that matter). My (personal syntax as you put it) inclination is that the connotations would still be uneven.
 
2012-04-09 03:38:35 PM  

pudding7: I followed the 2008 election religiously, and I never really saw the sexist treatment of Palin or Hillary from any of the major news organizations. From dozens of stupid blogs and shiat like Drudge, maybe I guess. But not from the likes of any networks.

And I find it hard to believe that any woman confident enough to run for national office would be scared off by some douchebag blogger making fun of her shoes or something.


"Confident enough to run for national office" being the key point: all other things being equal (qualifications, field of work, age, etc.) men are more likely to say they have what is necessary to be a politician. Men are also less likely to express concern that running for office will have a negative effect on their family.

Simply put, American women are less likely to run for office because they are more likely to make a pessimistic assessment of their chances and how it will change their lives. This isn't a value judgement of their decisions, just what studies show.
 
2012-04-09 03:38:50 PM  
 
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