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(NPR)   Across the country, more than 7,700 daily temperature records were broken last month, but the jury is still out on this whole climate change thing   (npr.org) divider line 346
    More: Obvious, temperature records, tornado outbreaks, Piedmont Park, First Tuesday Book Club, climate change, empirical formulas, jury  
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3649 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2012 at 6:37 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-09 08:01:24 AM  
One day's worth of data points means nothing.
 
2012-04-09 08:01:36 AM  

Copper Spork: Sgygus: Copper Spork, out with it man. What are you here to tell us? That people without degrees in climatology shouldn't talk about the weather? Or that not enough data has been gathered to be legitimately concerned?

That people with degrees in climatology should start holding themselves to the same standards as the hard sciences, that being a climate sceptic should be treated as a good thing like it is everywhere else in science, and that people who haven't done statistics at university level should stop using graphs as evidence. I'll remind you that all the good arguments against evolution came from science (e.g. Lord Kelvin), not religion, and that evolution became such a strong theory by carefully refuting all those arguments, not by having scientifically illiterate former politicians do PR for them.

/mostly annoyed because climate scientists get away with the kind of stuff that would get those of us in respectable sciences laughed out of a job


Set aside an even healthier dose of skepticism for the politicians who claim to have a worldwide solution to whatever climate problem may exist, having proved themselves so skilled and trustworthy in matters of warfare, banking, education, infrastructure and criminal justice (to name a few).

And if you find yourself thinking "power corrupts, but not on MY side", smack yourself upside the head several times until such notions go away.
 
2012-04-09 08:01:44 AM  
Does any of this bullshiat make it intelligent for a species that has been to the moon to still be making most of it's energy by burning shiat, like cavemen?
One of you oil company shill geniuses explain that to me, please.
 
2012-04-09 08:02:24 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: This planet has no idea we are even here. It was not made just for humans and it's never been a stagnant entity. Climate changes, I don't think we have anything to do with it.


The planet doesn't care, there's little we can do (now) to harm the planet if anything at all. The biosphere is well within our grasp, however. I don't know why you think that humans are incapable of affecting the biosphere in destructive ways. We do it on smaller scales quite easily in short amounts of time and we cover almost every continent on earth. We have broken the CO2 balance that existed before us because we put way more CO2 into the air than we reclaim.

It has nothing to do with hubris. If you don't think humans can cause biosphere trouble because of ocean acidification and average temperature increase you severely underestimate what we're capable of.

Sure, some life will survive, no doubt. It's hardy stuff. It might not be us or the things we want to survive, and that's why we're concerned.
 
2012-04-09 08:03:36 AM  

BigBooper: The sooner we give up the idiotic idea that we can change human behavior on a global scale the better.


At 7 billion people and growing, there is no "better".
 
2012-04-09 08:04:02 AM  
The jury is not out on climate change, smitty. The jury is still out on whether its AGW.
 
2012-04-09 08:04:04 AM  

jso2897: One of you oil company shill geniuses explain that to me, please.


noway could be call an oil shill, but.........energy density
 
2012-04-09 08:04:09 AM  
no matter how many times people from one side or the other of this debate say it, climate is not the same as weather.
 
2012-04-09 08:05:17 AM  

BigBooper: It's very simple, the climate is changing, and were going along for the ride. We adapt, or we die. The sooner we give up the idiotic idea that we can change human behavior on a global scale the better.


The global initiative to phase out hydro and chlorofluorocarbons would like to have a word with you.

See Montreal Protocol (new window).
 
2012-04-09 08:06:26 AM  

Mugato: I tend to believe the scientific community over people who feel their financial interests are better served denying global warming or people who have no reason to deny it other than they're republicans and they're supposed to.


Sadly, the deniers will not generally have to live with the results, and they forget that they have grandchildren who WILL have to live with it and who will NOT thank them for putting head in sand.

/science does not require belief
//it is reality based.
///sorry about your sky wizard.
 
2012-04-09 08:07:39 AM  
Seems likely that record highs are more likely a function of urban heat island effect than the world's climate.
 
2012-04-09 08:08:38 AM  
event-massive snowstorms

Global warming response-WEATHER DOES NOT EQUAL CLIMATE!

event-heat wave

Global warming response-OMG, SEE WE WERE RIGHT!! (now weather equals climate)
 
2012-04-09 08:08:52 AM  
Isn't this where the global warming supporters usually chime in that localized climate conditions doesn't mean the same thing as temperature?

.
..
...
Yeah, I know. The moderator's bored, and this is like throwing a steak into a den of lions. They get their rocks off watching us argue.
 
2012-04-09 08:09:54 AM  

jso2897: Does any of this bullshiat make it intelligent for a species that has been to the moon to still be making most of it's energy by burning shiat, like cavemen?
One of you oil company shill geniuses explain that to me, please.


"...to still be making most of it is energy by burning shiat...?"

Yes, hydrocarbons are the most economical fuel in terms of widespread availability and energy for the buck. That's it. That's all. That's why the use of hydrocarbon fuels is not going away any time soon. To do otherwise is to ask billions of people to endure minor inconveniences and discomforts. It's just not going to happen on the scale that you need. But, please, feel free to complain and flail about in self-righteous indignation while the majority of the people in the world get on with their day-to-day lives.
 
2012-04-09 08:10:35 AM  

This is for you, subtard.

www.phoenixrealm.com
 
2012-04-09 08:13:11 AM  

indarwinsshadow: Isn't this where the global warming supporters usually chime in that localized climate conditions doesn't mean the same thing as temperature?


Isn't this where the trisomy-21 patrol proves they haven't read the thread before posting the derp?

.
..
...
There are several posts to that effect in this thread.
 
2012-04-09 08:15:01 AM  

indarwinsshadow: Isn't this where the global warming supporters usually chime in that localized climate conditions doesn't mean the same thing as temperature?


The thread is full of that.

You're right, though, submitter is a troll.
 
2012-04-09 08:17:06 AM  

pecosdave: Uncle Tractor: pecosdave: right now the temperature increase on Earth has been seen on Mars, Titan, Io, and Venus, so I'm not blaming all of it on people, though we may have caused a little.

[citation needed]


National Geographic

Amato Evan, a climate scientist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, added that "the idea just isn't supported by the theory or by the observations."

"Wobbles in the orbit of Mars are the main cause of its climate change in the current era," Oxford's Wilson explained.

Also, your NatGeo article linked to another one:

Don't Blame Sun for Global Warming, Study Says (new window)

NASA

This article is about replicating terrain global warming on Mars as a part of making Mars habitable. In what way does this support your claim?

Mars, Neptune, Triton and Pluto Tuscon Citizen

From your link: "AGW proponents are under fire resulting from release of more emails in the "Climategate" scandals."

IOW: Those guys don't know what they're talking about.

Neptune World Climate Report

A study of Neptune's colossal cloud bands has shown that the planet undergoes seasonal changes in weather - the gas giant is just beginning a 40-year summer. (new window)

As for your source:

According to Fred Pearce, fossil fuel companies have helped fund Michaels' projects, including his World Climate Report, published every year since 1994, and his "advocacy science consulting firm", New Hope Environmental Services. (new window)

Venus

I don't see how this article supports your claims.

Please - no fallacies - the typical non-believer response is to look at the sources, find one you don't like so you discredit the whole lot. Please work to discredit individually.

Done.
 
2012-04-09 08:18:41 AM  
The climate is always changing. The question is whether we can do anything about it, and that answer is no.
 
2012-04-09 08:22:05 AM  

skylabdown: The climate is always changing. The question is whether we can do anything about it, and that answer is no.


I'm glad you solved that.

Man, we've been wasting our time, haven't we?
 
2012-04-09 08:22:47 AM  

GAT_00: Honestly, the fact that a couple of cities broke April all time record highs in March scares me a lot more than the sheer volume. That honestly shouldn't be possible. Mid-month too, which says that not only was no previous year on this day this hot but it was also hotter than it's ever been for the entire recorded history on for the next 45 days. To the best of my knowledge and it appears anyone else's, this has never happened before in recorded history. No temperature record had ever been shattered this bad. And these were cities with 100+ year record IIRC.

It's disturbing. But hey, it used to be hot 20 million years ago, so clearly we can't be changing anything.


On the flipside, if my memory serves, didn't the other half of the world have one of the worst winters on record? I remember reports of so much snow that crews couldn't clear it and restore utilities for weeks, and people dying due to the fact emergency crews couldn't reach them.

This is irregular, absolutely agreed, and I'm quite familiar with the effects of greenhouse gases. However for all we know the coin could have flipped the other way and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
2012-04-09 08:24:56 AM  

foo monkey: It's the natural ebb and flow of our planet's climate. The same thing happened 55 million years ago. Link (new window)


Gee, the entry barrier to being a climate expert sure is quite low these days...
 
2012-04-09 08:26:18 AM  
Frankly, while I believe in it, we probably should be using it as an excuse to get out collective shiat in order. There are many other reasons why human pollution is having a negative impact on the planet. From the Pacific Garbage patch to nuclear wastewater to smog to just looking like shiat, lets clean up this dump.
 
2012-04-09 08:31:05 AM  

Joce678: foo monkey: It's the natural ebb and flow of our planet's climate. The same thing happened 55 million years ago. Link (new window)

Gee, the entry barrier to being a climate expert sure is quite low these days...


i guess i'm most baffled by so many people being opposed to the notion of human-caused climate change. i mean, what skin do people have in the game that they so vigorously and vociferously oppose what is a scientific consensus? Why? Like someone posted a cartoon one time -- the measures proposed for reducing carbon emissions are things that have secondary, knock-on effects that are very positive, like energy independence, cleaner air, etc.

But you're right -- there are a lot of armchair climate scientists.
 
2012-04-09 08:31:11 AM  

Naesen: GAT_00: Honestly, the fact that a couple of cities broke April all time record highs in March scares me a lot more than the sheer volume. That honestly shouldn't be possible. Mid-month too, which says that not only was no previous year on this day this hot but it was also hotter than it's ever been for the entire recorded history on for the next 45 days. To the best of my knowledge and it appears anyone else's, this has never happened before in recorded history. No temperature record had ever been shattered this bad. And these were cities with 100+ year record IIRC.

It's disturbing. But hey, it used to be hot 20 million years ago, so clearly we can't be changing anything.

On the flipside, if my memory serves, didn't the other half of the world have one of the worst winters on record? I remember reports of so much snow that crews couldn't clear it and restore utilities for weeks, and people dying due to the fact emergency crews couldn't reach them.

This is irregular, absolutely agreed, and I'm quite familiar with the effects of greenhouse gases. However for all we know the coin could have flipped the other way and we wouldn't be having this conversation.


Yes, Europe did have a brutal winter. Funny how it's taken this long to come up since we're always told not to pay attention to record breaking winters in America because we have to take into consideration what's going on in the rest of the world to get the full picture.
 
2012-04-09 08:31:47 AM  

TimonC346: Frankly, while I believe in it, we probably should be using it as an excuse to get out collective shiat in order. There are many other reasons why human pollution is having a negative impact on the planet. From the Pacific Garbage patch to nuclear wastewater to smog to just looking like shiat, lets clean up this dump.


A big problem we've got that we're definitely responsible for and while it may be related to climate change it itself is not reliant on the climate changing: ocean acidification. We are pumping more CO2 into the air than we are reclaiming and the ocean absorbs some of it, and it's a big problem for food chains. We're not at a catastrophic collapse yet but we can't keep acting as if our activities don't have consequences. We're making a mess of the only home we've got so far.
 
2012-04-09 08:31:54 AM  
So subby, when we break cold weather records is that proof there is no global warming?
because as we know it has never ever changed sincethe planet formed right?

/stupid dinosaurs and their SUV's farking up the climate.
 
2012-04-09 08:37:58 AM  

Brubold: Naesen: GAT_00: Honestly, the fact that a couple of cities broke April all time record highs in March scares me a lot more than the sheer volume. That honestly shouldn't be possible. Mid-month too, which says that not only was no previous year on this day this hot but it was also hotter than it's ever been for the entire recorded history on for the next 45 days. To the best of my knowledge and it appears anyone else's, this has never happened before in recorded history. No temperature record had ever been shattered this bad. And these were cities with 100+ year record IIRC.

It's disturbing. But hey, it used to be hot 20 million years ago, so clearly we can't be changing anything.

On the flipside, if my memory serves, didn't the other half of the world have one of the worst winters on record? I remember reports of so much snow that crews couldn't clear it and restore utilities for weeks, and people dying due to the fact emergency crews couldn't reach them.

This is irregular, absolutely agreed, and I'm quite familiar with the effects of greenhouse gases. However for all we know the coin could have flipped the other way and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Yes, Europe did have a brutal winter. Funny how it's taken this long to come up since we're always told not to pay attention to record breaking winters in America because we have to take into consideration what's going on in the rest of the world to get the full picture.


your confirmation bias is showing.
 
2012-04-09 08:39:23 AM  
Anyone who uses one day/week/month/year to (dis)prove global warming needs to be shot.

Give me at least 100 years of temperature AND CO2 data, then we'll talk.

/Atmospheric scientist
//Climate change is certainly happening, and humans are almost certainly part of the cause
///The hairy issue is the effects on sensible weather/climate (i.e., what you feel at the ground)
////Slashy slashy
 
2012-04-09 08:43:59 AM  

unlikely: Even when it appears to prove the warming data, weather is still just weather and is still different from climate.


Comments that make sense and appear balanced have no place in a GWTM thread. Be gone!
 
2012-04-09 08:48:44 AM  
Y'know, it's funny how just over the last five or ten years, people have started buying into climate change denialism... Right when the evidence has become pretty much overwhelming. In the mid 90's, you really could claim that there wasn't enough hard evidence for GW theory, but now? Ignorance of the sheer volume of fruitful research is really the only possible explanation for doubting it.

pecosdave: right now the temperature increase on Earth has been seen on Mars, Titan, Io, and Venus


Man, when are you assholes going to stop using this long-disproven argument?
 
2012-04-09 08:52:14 AM  

Brubold: Yes, Europe did have a brutal winter. Funny how it's taken this long to come up since we're always told not to pay attention to record breaking winters in America because we have to take into consideration what's going on in the rest of the world to get the full picture.


NOAA/NCDC doesn't have the March 2012 reports up yet, but it's not exactly hard to spot the global winter trend over the last 100 years or so:

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

www.ncdc.noaa.gov
 
2012-04-09 08:55:03 AM  

Gunther: Y'know, it's funny how just over the last five or ten years, people have started buying into climate change denialism... Right when the evidence has become pretty much overwhelming. In the mid 90's, you really could claim that there wasn't enough hard evidence for GW theory, but now? Ignorance of the sheer volume of fruitful research is really the only possible explanation for doubting it.

pecosdave: right now the temperature increase on Earth has been seen on Mars, Titan, Io, and Venus

Man, when are you assholes going to stop using this long-disproven argument?


I don't see anybody arguing against global warming, at least nobody with any kind of rational argument, which excludes trolls. Climate change is factual at this point. The arguments are about whether we little peeps are causing it.
We are not, though we are certainly contributing to it.
It has both human and natural causes, but the natural drivers are the most significant ones (But that's only if you buy the argument that humans are super-natural creatures.) Cazart!
 
2012-04-09 08:57:01 AM  

b2theory: Without sounding like a denier, the predicted temperature anomalies should not manifest themselves as human perceivable temp differences as seen in the incredibly warm winter we have had.


THIS.
What happens over a short time frame isn't proof of climate change either way, although the recent warm trend doesn't help the denier's argument much. Then again most deniers haven't got a clue about how this sort of phenomenon is studied and measure and probably couldn't pass a basic high school level science class, so that doesn't mean much either.
 
2012-04-09 08:57:19 AM  
On a hot day, many temperature records were broken across the nation.
This means something.

/On a cold day when many low temperature and snowfall records are broken, it will mean nothing.
/I think it means neither side of the AGW debate really knows what it's talking about...
 
2012-04-09 08:57:37 AM  

b2theory: We need heatwaves and cold snaps to not be talking points for alarmist activists and anti-science deniers.

We need heatwaves and cold snaps to not be talking points for alarmist activists and anti-science deniers.
We need heatwaves and cold snaps to not be talking points for alarmist activists and anti-science deniers.
We need heatwaves and cold snaps to not be talking points for alarmist activists and anti-science deniers.
We need heatwaves and cold snaps to not be talking points for alarmist activists and anti-science deniers.

 
2012-04-09 09:00:19 AM  

Confabulat: The thing that is so just stupid about global warming deniers, is they just flat out DENY it.

They aren't wise. They don't think, well what if there's a 30% chance all the climatologists in the world are right and my Republican friends online are wrong, maybe I should take that possibility into consideration.

Nope. It's just LIBERAL CONSPIRACY THE CLIMATOLOGISTS ARE ALL IN IT TOGETHER TO GET RICH OMG AL GORE

I mean, you want to witness stupid, look no further than that kind of thinking.


No shiat, the Conservative "establishment" should be farking ashamed of themselves for the bullshiat they throw at this issue. Instead they have millions of gullible idiots buying it hook line and sinker.
 
2012-04-09 09:00:23 AM  

Sgt Otter: King Something: It snowed in Alaska this winter, therefore Global Warming is a myth and Barack Obama has to watch all 9,001 episodes of Bleach in a row.

[mediamatters.org image 590x356]

Cavuto approved.


I think Cavuto has a small data sample.
 
2012-04-09 09:00:58 AM  

TimonC346: Frankly, while I believe in it, we probably should be using it as an excuse to get out collective shiat in order. There are many other reasons why human pollution is having a negative impact on the planet. From the Pacific Garbage patch to nuclear wastewater to smog to just looking like shiat, lets clean up this dump.


Entropy, man. The universe tends toward disorder. Everything is a mess eventually.
Or, as Steely Dan put it:
Every minor world that breaks apart falls together again. If the demon is at your door, in the morning he won't be there no more.
Any major dude will tell you.
 
2012-04-09 09:03:32 AM  

lewismarktwo: We never should have fixed the ozone layer. All this extra heat could have escaped right out!


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2012-04-09 09:03:57 AM  

BigBooper: Lets assume that human beings are 100% at fault for global climate change, and significant changes in our behavior could change or even re-mediate increased warming.

Does anyone really think that those changes will really happen? Remember, not only the first world nations, but developing nations have to make radical changes. While the basic concept of green policy may be popular, implementation is the opposite. And that's in the first world, developing nations are much more focused on economic growth and development. In their view, if developed nations put in policies that clearly retard growth, so much the better; they grow all the faster in response.

It's very simple, the climate is changing, and were going along for the ride. We adapt, or we die. The sooner we give up the idiotic idea that we can change human behavior on a global scale the better.


It's amazing how quickly people forget the Montreal Protocols. A mere 25 years ago, scientists showed how and why chlorofluorocarbons and related substances were depleting the ozone layer. Back then, American conservatives weren't pants-on-head-retarded, there wasn't a massive media backlash against mainstream science, and so virtually every nation on the planet ratified a treaty where the offending substances were banned. There were namby-pamby "this sounds hard" naysayers back then too, but the scientists basically said "Go fark yourselves. We got this.", wrote effective treaties, and within a decade CFCs were more or less gone from industrial use. And you know what? It farking worked, no thanks to the 1980s equivalent of dead weight like you.

www.esrl.noaa.gov

(Data courtesy of NOAA. Read more here.) The Montreal Protocol phased out the production of the most damaging CFCs between 1991 and 1996. Think it worked?
 
2012-04-09 09:05:31 AM  

Itstoearly: 7,700 sounds like a lot... oh wait, each "record' is for a very tiny area? So that large number is not actually that significant? And we've also only been keeping track of temperatures for what, a bit over 100 years? Wow, I am just so shocked at this is undeniable, smoking gun proof that CO2 is going to kill us all.

Wait, I know how we can makes this even bigger proof. "Attention Earth: the temperature record of over ONE BILLION [one square inch] areas was broken last month! WE ARE DOOMED. WE MUST NOT STOP UNTIL THE EARTH IS BACK IN TO AN ICE AGE."


i235.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-09 09:09:15 AM  

way south: On a hot day, many temperature records were broken across the nation.
This means something.

/On a cold day when many low temperature and snowfall records are broken, it will mean nothing.
/I think it means neither side of the AGW debate really knows what it's talking about...


Any given day, you can go to weather underground or weather dot com and see the record highs and lows for that day. Today's records for where I am in the mid-atlantic region are a high of 90 degrees (1929) and a low of 25 degrees (1972). Cool, huh?
 
2012-04-09 09:10:50 AM  

trotsky: Confabulat: The thing that is so just stupid about global warming deniers, is they just flat out DENY it.

They aren't wise. They don't think, well what if there's a 30% chance all the climatologists in the world are right and my Republican friends online are wrong, maybe I should take that possibility into consideration.

Nope. It's just LIBERAL CONSPIRACY THE CLIMATOLOGISTS ARE ALL IN IT TOGETHER TO GET RICH OMG AL GORE

I mean, you want to witness stupid, look no further than that kind of thinking.

No shiat, the Conservative "establishment" should be farking ashamed of themselves for the bullshiat they throw at this issue. Instead they have millions of gullible idiots buying it hook line and sinker they depend on to keep their viewership numbers up to charge for ad rates so they say anything they think their viewers want to hear.


/enhanced that for you
 
2012-04-09 09:11:14 AM  
Funny how many people who did not watch the movie missed the critical point...

More heat means more water in atmosphere, which means more energy. This means larger storms and greater annual climate variations.

Last two years show this, for example, Colorado went from a season record snow to season record drought in a single year. That's some variation.

/don't worry, you kids will solve this
//you need not believe
 
2012-04-09 09:12:30 AM  
My money is on that nuclear fusion thingy that is1,300,000 times the volume of earth causing "global climate change".
 
2012-04-09 09:14:27 AM  
It's the government's fault. They've instituted these smoking bans everywhere. When people have to go outside to smoke, all of that fire heats the atmosphere. Indoors it doesn't do that. What did these scienceologists think was going to happen?
 
2012-04-09 09:15:14 AM  

rmoody: You either do the right thing, or you do the wrong thing.


Such a black and white mindset is in diametric opposition to enlightened science.
You must be trolling, but I'll bite.
One of the hallmarks of education is that the more you learn, the more you realize you don't understand or know. If anything, more educated people understand that most of the time the world and everything on it does not dance to music written in black and white realities.

Anyway, that's very post-9/11 of you.
Nice try.
 
2012-04-09 09:16:23 AM  

smooshie: Ok course it did, but they all ignored it so they could swim in their ill-gained gold from other climatologists and Big Electric Power. Unlike the pure at heart climate skeptics, who have never accepted any industry money.


Why would anyone accept money from the companies that have shattered profit records and have money to spare when all of that great government grant money is just sitting there for some enterprising liar...er, scientist...to grab?
 
2012-04-09 09:17:39 AM  
But! But! But!
GROUPTHINK!
PEER REVIEW!
CAREER PRESERVATION!
RELIGIOUS ZEAL!

and finally...

DENIER!
 
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