Hey, if they want to pay for it out of state coffers then that's great. It still doesn't change the fact that "voter fraud" has never been a real problem.

Godammit, Rhode Island, you just don't get it, do you? The purpose of requiring ID cards to vote is to disenfranchise the young, poor people and minorities! When you hand out free cards you're just encouraging them to exercise their political rights! Haven't you learned anything? Do you really want all those brown people running around picking their leaders? How will wealthy white men maintain their control? It's madness I tell you, madness!

No matter what the outcome this year, the losing side will riot over voter fraud.

Fart_Machine: Hey, if they want to pay for it out of state coffers then that's great. It still doesn't change the fact that "voter fraud" has never been a real problem.

Hey, liberals and black people threatening to vote is a kind of problem.

clambam: Godammit, Rhode Island, you just don't get it, do you? The purpose of requiring ID cards to vote is to disenfranchise the young, poor people and minorities! When you hand out free cards you're just encouraging them to exercise their political rights! Haven't you learned anything? Do you really want all those brown people running around picking their leaders? How will wealthy white men maintain their control? It's madness I tell you, madness!

Bingo. PA just passed a photo voter ID law that requires an "expiration date." Penn State student ID cards currently do not have an expiration date. Hillary Clinton and Tom Corbett must be so proud.

Fart_Machine: Hey, if they want to pay for it out of state coffers then that's great. It still doesn't change the fact that "voter fraud" has never been a real problem.

I remember people thinking it was back in 2000 and 2004 (plus I have heard of dead people casting votes). If a free ID card is issuable, I don't see the problem.

However, like the Boobies said, you can just do absentee balloting and get past that loop hole.

Now the illegals and dead will never going to be able to vote for Democrats. Thanks alot.

Voter fraud is the stupidest panic ever. What the hell would you even gain from committing voter fraud? Do you fear that your children will be seduced by the dark madness of voter fraud? Legions of foreigners pushing down the gates and overrunning our defenses to forcibly commit voter fraud? In a future time Christ's name forgotten voter fraud?

What are you even supposed to say to these people, besides "ballot box, ammo box?"

hershy799: clambam: Godammit, Rhode Island, you just don't get it, do you? The purpose of requiring ID cards to vote is to disenfranchise the young, poor people and minorities! When you hand out free cards you're just encouraging them to exercise their political rights! Haven't you learned anything? Do you really want all those brown people running around picking their leaders? How will wealthy white men maintain their control? It's madness I tell you, madness!

Bingo. PA just passed a photo voter ID law that requires an "expiration date." Penn State student ID cards currently do not have an expiration date. Hillary Clinton and Tom Corbett must be so proud.

I never understood the big deal with allowing college students to vote while at school. I never considered my dorm room a permanent address and would have just done an absentee ballot from home.

machoprogrammer: Fart_Machine: Hey, if they want to pay for it out of state coffers then that's great. It still doesn't change the fact that "voter fraud" has never been a real problem.

I remember people thinking it was back in 2000 and 2004 (plus I have heard of dead people casting votes). If a free ID card is issuable, I don't see the problem.

However, like the Boobies said, you can just do absentee balloting and get past that loop hole.

It's a problem because it is absolutely useless. There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem. The most common form of corruption in voting is of the ballot stuffing vote tampering type. The only thing these laws are is a bureaucratic measure to make it harder for poor people to vote. Anyone who hates wasteful government programs should hate that states have to spend money for IDs we don't need. Anyone who cares about the common man should hate a law that puts useless barriers in front of voters.

Which of course is why conservatives love them.

I remember listening to NPR one time and they had on someone a politician from Kansas to talk about their law. When the NPR interviewer asked if there were any cases of voter fraud that could've affected an election, the Kansas politician cited a time when a bunch of illegals were caught voting in a mayoral election in Bumfark, KS.

Something tells me that these Voter ID laws didn't have these kind of elections in mind, but really shows how desperate the pro-Voter ID folk have to get to cite a case in which voter fraud influenced an election.

People are killed by lightning 40x more often than people commit ID-related vote fraud.

turtle553: I never understood the big deal with allowing college students to vote while at school. I never considered my dorm room a permanent address and would have just done an absentee ballot from home.

Votes are more useful when found in large blocks.

Students tend to vote Dem.

Thus making them use absentee ballots for back home diffuses the youth vote from concentrated college towns to the entire country which aids the GOP.

The GOP are obviously and actively suppressing the votes of the young and poor and trying to make it easier for their constituents ie (NRA members) to vote.

Unless you are deliberately looking away this is clearly visible from space with the naked eye.

Anyone who believes this has anything to do with actual voter fraud is too naive for words.

odinsposse: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem. .

There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

Yes, I know that under 0bama this country is getting more strict with these things, but there is no evidence that asking for ID is a problem that can't easily be solved.

tenpoundsofcheese: odinsposse: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem. .

There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

Yes, I know that under 0bama this country is getting more strict with these things, but there is no evidence that asking for ID is a problem that can't easily be solved.

Requiring people to pay for something in order to vote is a poll tax plain and simple.

Kudos for RI for offering them for free, just hope that they have a birth certificate and other stuff needed to get the ID, otherwise it'll cost them.

There's no such thing as a free card. Somebody is paying for it, presumably the taxpayers.

Seems like a solution in search of a problem, and I'm guessing that the company that produces the cards is probably a big contributor to somebody's campaign.

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: odinsposse: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem. .

There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

Yes, I know that under 0bama this country is getting more strict with these things, but there is no evidence that asking for ID is a problem that can't easily be solved.

Requiring people to pay for something in order to vote is a poll tax plain and simple.

why didn't you also add that requiring people to pay taxes based on their income is an income tax plain and simple? Just as irrelevant since these are free.

Kudos for RI for offering them for free, just hope that they have a birth certificate and other stuff needed to get the ID, otherwise it'll cost them.

Isn't it great that they can get a free ID that they can use to board a plane, cash a check, visit the department of homeland security, buy alcohol or cigarettes (assuming they look like they are under 21), get a gun...

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: odinsposse: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem. .

There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

Yes, I know that under 0bama this country is getting more strict with these things, but there is no evidence that asking for ID is a problem that can't easily be solved.

Requiring people to pay for something in order to vote is a poll tax plain and simple.

.

by the way, the definition of a poll tax is not specific to voting, although it has been used for that. "a tax levied per head of adult population". The health care mandate is just as much a poll tax.

tenpoundsofcheese: Isn't it great that they can get a free ID that they can use to board a plane, cash a check, visit the department of homeland security, buy alcohol or cigarettes (assuming they look like they are under 21), get a gun...

All rights protected by the Constitution.

/Oh wait

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Isn't it great that they can get a free ID that they can use to board a plane, cash a check, visit the department of homeland security, buy alcohol or cigarettes (assuming they look like they are under 21), get a gun...

All rights protected by the Constitution.

/Oh wait


you are allowed to get a gun right? or did you not know that?
seriously, could you at least try a little, this is too easy.

tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Isn't it great that they can get a free ID that they can use to board a plane, cash a check, visit the department of homeland security, buy alcohol or cigarettes (assuming they look like they are under 21), get a gun...

All rights protected by the Constitution.

/Oh wait


you are allowed to get a gun right? or did you not know that?
seriously, could you at least try a little, this is too easy.

Out of that stupid list, only one was a right protected by the Constitution.

Congrats, you sure fooled me and invalidated my entire argument.

/Oh wait

Must be a liberal conspiracy to steal the election.

Anf of course, the only actual voter fraud being perpetrated out there is by repubs:

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: odinsposse: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem. .

There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

Yes, I know that under 0bama this country is getting more strict with these things, but there is no evidence that asking for ID is a problem that can't easily be solved.

Requiring people to pay for something in order to vote is a poll tax plain and simple.

.

by the way, the definition of a poll tax is not specific to voting, although it has been used for that. "a tax levied per head of adult population". The health care mandate is just as much a poll tax.

Yes but the 24th amendment prohibition to Poll or as you like to refer to them per person taxes only applies to voting,

Mrtraveler01: I remember listening to NPR one time and they had on someone a politician from Kansas to talk about their law. When the NPR interviewer asked if there were any cases of voter fraud that could've affected an election, the Kansas politician cited a time when a bunch of illegals were caught voting in a mayoral election in Bumfark, KS.

Something tells me that these Voter ID laws didn't have these kind of elections in mind, but really shows how desperate the pro-Voter ID folk have to get to cite a case in which voter fraud influenced an election.

Kris Kobach? I'm embarrassed that he is my Secretary of State. And I can assure you that he's not thinking about local elections getting rigged. He's thinking about illegal immigrants stealing Americans' identities and electing people to national offices who will give them something for nothing, like free citizenship and unlimited welfare.

sdd2000: by the way, the definition of a poll tax is not specific to voting, although it has been used for that. "a tax levied per head of adult population". The health care mandate is just as much a poll tax.

Christ, tenpoundsofderp is an idiot.

/have him on ignore
//strongly recommend it.

tenpoundsofcheese: There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

This is currently being debated in Minnesota as well. During the debate, one Minnesota politician mentioned that in her district alone, there were over 1900 people without a photo ID (they don't need one for their lifestyle) and that in certain instances, it may be a round trip of 250 miles to obtain one.

Protip: Those "free" IDs actually aren't "free" by any stretch of the imagination (Taxes, how do they work?)

Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Out of that stupid list, only one was a right protected by the Constitution.

The rest is protected by the commerce clause.

As much as something under the control of Congress is "protected", heh.

What is unclear to me is how any of these laws can be justified in view of Harman v. Forssenius - 380 U.S. 528 (1965)

" For federal elections, the poll tax is abolished absolutely as a prerequisite to voting, and no equivalent or milder substitute may be imposed. Any material requirement imposed upon the federal voter solely because of his refusal to waive the constitutional immunity subverts the effectiveness of the Twenty-fourth Amendment, and must fall under its ban.
Nor may the statutory scheme be saved, as the State asserts, on the ground that the certificate is a necessary substitute method of proving residence, serving the same function as the poll tax. As this Court has held in analogous situations, constitutional deprivations may not be justified by some remote administrative benefit to the State. Carrington v. Rash, 380 U. S. 89, 96; Oyama
v. California, 332 U. S. 633, 332 U. S. 646-647. Moreover, in this case the State has not demonstrated that the alternative requirement is in any sense necessary to the proper administration of its election laws. "

It seems to me that the burden of showing that these laws are necessary falls to the states. I would hope as this is a fundamental right that would be abridged that the standard would be by a strict scrutiny standard.

As far simpler and clearly less burdensome, to the populous, ways to avoid fraud of the type that is claimed to occur exists (see the system we suggested in Iraq and Afghanistan of the simple use of indelible ink on a persons thumb or finger) as just one example. I would think that at the minimum that those proposing the law should be forced to show that this type of fraud is in fact a real problem not just a perceived one.

You might think that, subby, but only if you weren't really doing your research. Poll taxes are illegal, and Democrats consistently obstruct Republican bills to provide free identification..

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: What the hell would you even gain from committing voter fraud?
Extra votes for a candidate?

odinsposse: machoprogrammer: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem.

113 convictions represent small fraction of total unlawful votes
ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Minnesota Majority today released a report on voter fraud convictions to date stemming from Minnesota's 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

"As far as we can tell, this is the largest number of voter fraud convictions arising from a single election in the past 75 years," said Minnesota Majority president Jeff Davis, "Prosecutions are still underway and so there will likely be even more convictions."

The highest number of convictions ever recorded in the United States came from the 1936 Jackson County, Missouri elections in which 259 individuals were convicted of voter fraud. A more recent five-year probe by the United States Department of Justice identified just 53 convictions for voter fraud nationwide.
"It's mind-boggling to me that as a tiny non-profit corporation, we netted more than double the number of convictions in one year than the US Department of Justice was able to find in five," said Davis.

Minnesota's recent charges and convictions stem from research initiated by Minnesota Majority. The research identified upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota's 2008 general election.

"These convictions are just the tip of the iceberg," said Davis. "The actual number of illegal votes cast was in the thousands. Most unlawful voters were never charged with a crime because they simply pled ignorance. We have evidence of these people casting illegal ballots, but in Minnesota, ignorance of election law is considered to be an acceptable defense."

At the time of this report, nearly 200 additional cases are still pending trial. But time is running out for any additional cases to be prosecuted. The statute of limitations on election crimes is three years, and will expire for the 2008 election this November. Anyone who county attorneys have not charged by then will go free.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in - voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html

turtle553: hershy799: clambam: Godammit, Rhode Island, you just don't get it, do you? The purpose of requiring ID cards to vote is to disenfranchise the young, poor people and minorities! When you hand out free cards you're just encouraging them to exercise their political rights! Haven't you learned anything? Do you really want all those brown people running around picking their leaders? How will wealthy white men maintain their control? It's madness I tell you, madness!

Bingo. PA just passed a photo voter ID law that requires an "expiration date." Penn State student ID cards currently do not have an expiration date. Hillary Clinton and Tom Corbett must be so proud.

I never understood the big deal with allowing college students to vote while at school. I never considered my dorm room a permanent address and would have just done an absentee ballot from home.

You're not everyone, though. If I live somewhere 9 months a year, you better believe I'm voting there.

cevarius: odinsposse: machoprogrammer: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem.

113 convictions represent small fraction of total unlawful votes
ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Minnesota Majority today released a report on voter fraud convictions to date stemming from Minnesota's 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

"As far as we can tell, this is the largest number of voter fraud convictions arising from a single election in the past 75 years," said Minnesota Majority president Jeff Davis, "Prosecutions are still underway and so there will likely be even more convictions."

The highest number of convictions ever recorded in the United States came from the 1936 Jackson County, Missouri elections in which 259 individuals were convicted of voter fraud. A more recent five-year probe by the United States Department of Justice identified just 53 convictions for voter fraud nationwide.
"It's mind-boggling to me that as a tiny non-profit corporation, we netted more than double the number of convictions in one year than the US Department of Justice was able to find in five," said Davis.

Minnesota's recent charges and convictions stem from research initiated by Minnesota Majority. The research identified upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota's 2008 general election.

"These convictions are just the tip of the iceberg," said Davis. "The actual number of illegal votes cast was in the thousands. Most unlawful voters were never charged with a crime because they simply pled ignorance. We have evidence of these people casting illegal ballots, but in Minnesota, ignorance of election law is considered to be an acceptable defense."

At the time of this report, nearly 200 additional cases are still pending trial. But time is running out for any add ... We're so butthurt that Norm Coleman lost to Al Franken that the only conclusion we could come up with was that this election was stolen from us

FTFY

"I've voted lots of times."

Well whos taxes actually payed for those ID's to be made? That's right, the 1%. So if anything they should get the vote of anyone who uses one of these.

The Onanist: tenpoundsofcheese: There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

This is currently being debated in Minnesota as well. During the debate, one Minnesota politician mentioned that in her district alone, there were over 1900 people without a photo ID (they don't need one for their lifestyle) and that in certain instances, it may be a round trip of 250 miles to obtain one.

Protip: Those "free" IDs actually aren't "free" by any stretch of the imagination (Taxes, how do they work?)

It can also be a biatch to get the papers necessary to get the ID like a birth certificate if your parents lost it or you never got one because you were born at home.

Mrtraveler01: We're so butthurt that Norm Coleman lost to Al Franken that the only conclusion we could come up with was that this election was stolen from us

FTFY

Umm, no, you didn't.

So this neans that ACORN is going to have Peter Griffin, Cleveland, Stewie, and Quagmire vote a couple hundred times for Barry Soetero Dodge Caravan Communist Mooslim Fartbongo , amirite?

The Onanist: tenpoundsofcheese: There is also no evidence that asking for legitimate photo ID is a problem either. So what is your point?

This is currently being debated in Minnesota as well. During the debate, one Minnesota politician mentioned that in her district alone, there were over 1900 people without a photo ID (they don't need one for their lifestyle) and that in certain instances, it may be a round trip of 250 miles to obtain one.

Protip: Those "free" IDs actually aren't "free" by any stretch of the imagination (Taxes, how do they work?)

Not to mention getting an ID requires additional paperwork such as a birth certificate. Which costs money to pull a certified copy of.

/voter ID is a solution looking for a problem

tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Isn't it great that they can get a free ID that they can use to board a plane, cash a check, visit the department of homeland security, buy alcohol or cigarettes (assuming they look like they are under 21), get a gun...

All rights protected by the Constitution.

/Oh wait


you are allowed to get a gun right? or did you not know that?
seriously, could you at least try a little, this is too easy.

Getting a gun is not the right to own one. You can own a gun all day long. No one has to sell you one.

cevarius: Mrtraveler01: We're so butthurt that Norm Coleman lost to Al Franken that the only conclusion we could come up with was that this election was stolen from us

FTFY

Umm, no, you didn't.

So you're telling me that the Minnesota Majority would go to all that work to find voter fraud in Minnesota if Norm Coleman would've won?

cevarius: odinsposse: machoprogrammer: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem.

Minnesota's recent charges and convictions stem from research initiated by Minnesota Majority. The research identified upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota's 2008 general

Minnesota Majority is an ultra partisan fringe group pushing for voter ID in Minnesota and continues to push lies like this one. To this day there is no evidence of this. Much like the ballots "found" in a car or the half dozen other lies they repeat.

gingerjet: cevarius: odinsposse: machoprogrammer: There's no evidence that voter fraud is a problem.

Minnesota's recent charges and convictions stem from research initiated by Minnesota Majority. The research identified upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota's 2008 general

Minnesota Majority is an ultra partisan fringe group pushing for voter ID in Minnesota and continues to push lies like this one. To this day there is no evidence of this. Much like the ballots "found" in a car or the half dozen other lies they repeat.

I was going to say, was there any proof of voter fraud in MN outside of that press release by Minnesota Majority?

Mrtraveler01:
So you're telling me that the Minnesota Majority would go to all that work to find voter fraud in Minnesota if Norm Coleman would've won?

Well, yeah. If they're like the state/county Rep/Dem parties in my neck of the woods they'd love to show that their candidate really won by 3% instead of barely 1%. It'd also be ammo if their opposing candidate ever tried to run again as they could always remind voters of the dirty voter rigging.

gingerjet: Minnesota Majority is an ultra partisan fringe group pushing for voter ID in Minnesota and continues to push lies like this one. To this day there is no evidence of this. Much like the ballots "found" in a car or the half dozen other lies they repeat.

So, there were no convictions?

cevarius: Mrtraveler01:
So you're telling me that the Minnesota Majority would go to all that work to find voter fraud in Minnesota if Norm Coleman would've won?

Well, yeah. If they're like the state/county Rep/Dem parties in my neck of the woods they'd love to show that their candidate really won by 3% instead of barely 1%. It'd also be ammo if their opposing candidate ever tried to run again as they could always remind voters of the dirty voter rigging.

And outside of this press release, was there any proof that the voter fraud in MN was on a scale as massive as that?

turtle553: I never understood the big deal with allowing college students to vote while at school. I never considered my dorm room a permanent address and would have just done an absentee ballot from home.

That is mainly because while students cycle through a college by the thousands every year, the college still wants some influence in local (city, county and state) government. If the students can vote in city council and local referendum elections, then the school overall has more influence along with the general student body and the individual students. While schools can be cash cows for college towns, the townies tend to view students as disruptive and, particularly in Williamsburg, VA, try to push ridiculously restrictive law regarding tenants and noise levels.

Mrtraveler01: And outside of this press release, was there any proof that the voter fraud in MN was on a scale as massive as that?

No, but to be fair, "in Minnesota, ignorance of election law is considered to be an acceptable defense."

cevarius: Mrtraveler01: And outside of this press release, was there any proof that the voter fraud in MN was on a scale as massive as that?

No, but to be fair, "in Minnesota, ignorance of election law is considered to be an acceptable defense."

And your proof of that:

The Minnesota Majority press release you cited earlier!

Give me a source that it's from a BS organization with a partisan agenda and I might start believing you.

Mrtraveler01: cevarius: Mrtraveler01: And outside of this press release, was there any proof that the voter fraud in MN was on a scale as massive as that?

No, but to be fair, "in Minnesota, ignorance of election law is considered to be an acceptable defense."

And your proof of that:

The Minnesota Majority press release you cited earlier!

Give me a source that it's isn't from a BS organization with a partisan agenda and I might start believing you.

FTFM

If someone does not have an ID. How will that effect their participation in the Affordable Health Care Act?

affect...sigh

Hrmmm, so the folks pushing for these laws in the first place get their panties in a wad when there is an effort to make id's readily available. But of course this has nothing to do with voter disenfranchisment.
these pigs intentions couldn't be anymore naked if they were skinless.

Hypnozombie

I'm pretty sure both sides commit a bit of vote fraud. Democrats getting felons and illegals to vote, republicans helping grandma (who is either dead or incapacitated) fill out her absentee ballot.

Vote fraud is like any other crime. When they are done legislating a solution the criminals will spend time devising a work around after the legislators move on to other topics.

Practical solutions? Increase voter turnout to saturate the ballot box, maybe. Return to an open ballot so spot checks can be made. Thumb print on a printed ballot.

I'm ok with voter ID laws only if

1. The states gives them out at no cost.
2. They are given out at the DMV, court house AND welfare offices
3. ONLY those IDs are acceptable. Nothing else.
4. The law allows for tracking how many people voted so as to prevent people like Kathy Nickolaus from stuffing ballot boxes, book-keeping records of who voted at polling places are matched up and verified against the database of people in the ID system and they must match with 99% accuracy.


/because laws like this are intended to hurt the 99%

Isn't that the same as in South Carolina? (Or at least I think it was SC)

* ID is required.
Ok, but they better not charge money for it.

* ID is free.
Oh, ok.

* But the papers you need to get the ID costs money.
Ffffuuuuu...

Requiring someone pull some documents out of a shoe-box and head to the courthouse to get a picture taken is the highest form of Jim Crow.

i mean, Republicans cant actually prove that voter fraud has ever even existed.

It is estimated that 90% of brown people dont have identification



Did I miss any?

rebelyell2006: turtle553: I never understood the big deal with allowing college students to vote while at school. I never considered my dorm room a permanent address and would have just done an absentee ballot from home.

That is mainly because while students cycle through a college by the thousands every year, the college still wants some influence in local (city, county and state) government. If the students can vote in city council and local referendum elections, then the school overall has more influence along with the general student body and the individual students. While schools can be cash cows for college towns, the townies tend to view students as disruptive and, particularly in Williamsburg, VA, try to push ridiculously restrictive law regarding tenants and noise levels.

This,

Plus you can really screw over certain candidates. Ron Paul did terribly in Washtenaw County because the University of Michigan was on spring break, which meant that 35,000 students weren't able to vote for him. That's the effect that screwing over the students has.

/The easiest way to commit voter fraud is to just move, and then not change your address. I've never done it, but I moved 4 times last summer, and the government knew about 0 of the moves.
//Heck, I'm moving to Boston and the government isn't going to know squat about it.

NC tried to pass a voter ID law, claiming it would stop rampant voter fraud. Except, even the Republicans themselves couldn't show there ever has been widespread voter fraud in NC. There have been some isolated cases of what the (R)'s have gleefully pointed out of "registration fraud", but their bill wouldn't have stopped that and in most cases it was a simple mistake or error by the voter (forgot to notify of change of address, etc), not deliberate.

Oh, and their bill would have charged voters to get the voter ID card. Even after law expert after law expert pointed out that was unconstitutional, they stuck to their guns right to the end claiming that the charge "wasn't that much".

/bill got killed
//won't be surprised if they try it again though

NewportBarGuy: So, if I wanted to commit voter fraud, all I have to do is use an absentee or mail-in ballot?

Lol. You think those are counted.

I think those states that pass voter ID laws should be required to set up voter ID issuance booths at every voting center on the day of an election. They rightists get their ID requirements and the leftists ensure nobody is left out. Compromise, people! This nation used to know what that meant.

Bendal: NC tried to pass a voter ID law, claiming it would stop rampant voter fraud. Except, even the Republicans themselves couldn't show there ever has been widespread voter fraud in NC

The SCOTUS ruled 6-3 in Crawford V. Marion county that a state wasn't required to show prior evidence of fraud

cevarius: The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

"As far as we can tell, this is the largest number of voter fraud convictions arising from a single election in the past 75 years," said Minnesota Majority president Jeff Davis, "Prosecutions are still underway and so there will likely be even more convictions."

This article seems to prove my point.

I like how so-called fiscal conservatives want to spend a boatload of money on something that only occurs 0.0009% of the time. You'd be better off investing in an anti-asteroid defense system. But like I said earlier, if you want to waste state funds on this be my guest.

meyerkev: Plus you can really screw over certain candidates. Ron Paul did terribly in Washtenaw County because the University of Michigan was on spring break, which meant that 35,000 students weren't able to vote for him. That's the effect that screwing over the students has.

You assume that every one of the little darlings would have voted for RON PAUL, that none of them were registered to vote elsewhere and that they didn't vote as an absentee.

Ron Paul "did terribly" in Michigan because he's not a very good candidate. (He actually fared a little better in Washtenaw than elsewhere in the state, but don't let facts get in the way of your hate.)

machoprogrammer: I remember people thinking it was back in 2000 and 2004

The fraud I was concerned about in those two elections was (in 2000) purging black voters from the rolls in Florida and other southern states, and (in 2004) paperless computer voting machines in Ohio counting more votes for Bush than there were people in the precinct. I don't see how requiring an ID card to vote will help prevent either of these practices.

Mrtraveler01: Something tells me that these Voter ID laws didn't have these kind of elections in mind, but really shows how desperate the pro-Voter ID folk have to get to cite a case in which voter fraud influenced an election.

The point of most of the Republican shenanigans is to enable 'legitimate' forms of domination and control of the electorate in a very low-level grass-roots way. Every time you hear about 'devolving' power, you should think about who it's devolving to. It's a really cheap thing to corrupt town mayors, sheriffs, judges or cops, who live in the locale and therefore probably are vulnerable to the features of the local economy, like whether a company closes up shop and moves one county over, or whether you need to buy your groceries at the factory owner's brother's shop, or keep your money in his cousin's bank.

In many parts of the nation - especially the boot-strappy one - the market only supports one or two of many kinds of businesses, especially when there is a high barrier to entry - like your competitor's 'supporters' are firebugs.