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(Yahoo)   Gay, lesbian, and bisexual Brigham Young University, make an "It gets better..{until you are excommunicated by your church, banned from your ward and disowned by your own family}" video   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 245
    More: Interesting, Brigham Young University, Wausau, bisexuals, DePaul, The Lookout, lesbians, gays  
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8248 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2012 at 10:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-08 12:18:59 AM

Lando Lincoln: Johnny Savage: ciberido: Johnny Savage: The problem with the campaign is that the vast majority of people (in general) don't give a damn what your sexual orientation is. It is even more pronounced amongst the people with whom you will associate upon 'coming out'.

It's pedantic biatching. If you're gay, be gay. It's not like you will have a hard time finding folks who will accept you.

Not sure if serious, but, uh, yeah, you do sometimes have a hard time.

Here's an experiment for you: pretend to be openly gay for six months. Tell your family you're gay. "Come out" to all your friends. Wear t-shirts that announce to the world that you're gay. Date only members of the same sex (you don't have to do more than go on dates and hold their hands). Walk down the street holding hands with your boyfriend (or girlfriend, if you're a woman). Be very, very publicly open about your pretend-homosexuality for those six months.

Do this for six months, then come back and tell us all about how easy it is.

/blah blah blah

Try the same thing as a:

Mormon
Southern Baptist in the north
Muslim
Orthodox Jew
Mennonite
Fundamentalist Baptist
Moonie
Interracial couple
Hindi
et cetera
et cetera
et cetera

If you differ at all from the mean, you will be scrutinized. Get over it.

Seriously? You're trying to say that being gay is as socially deviant as being religious?

Get the fark out of here with your stupidity.


You're right. Going to hell because you're gay is completely different from going to hell because you're Muslim/Catholic/Intermarried/etc. It's an entirely different kind of hell, altogether.

You spend too much time on fark. You might want to meet some people face to face. People other than gay folk have issues.
 
2012-04-08 12:19:16 AM

Johnny Savage: Lipspinach: Johnny Savage: I had a good friend that was enticed (his words) into the community after college. He was miserable until he 'came out' to his friends that he wasn't gay. He married a chick about 5 years ago.

A HA! I KNEW IT! The Moral Majority was right! I've heard of these roving
bands of homosexuals indoctrinating our youth with their gayness.

/but seriously, that is extremely odd. Never heard of that before.
I have so many questions.....

I knew him two years as a gay man before he switched teams.

Interesting, though. I'm sure you would advocate that it's possible for a gay man to live life miserably as a straight man (In the closet). But, it's impossible for a straight man to live life miserably as a gay man.

It sounds like you don't believe that gays are equal to straights. Why do you hate gay folk?


I don't know how you got that idea from what I said. Hate gay folk?
Or are you joking?
I've certainly heard of queers living miserable closeted lives. A bunch of my friends went through that bullshiat when they were younger. But I have NEVER heard of the reverse. Like I said, it just seems odd to me.
 
2012-04-08 12:19:31 AM

ciberido: Johnny Savage: The problem with the campaign is that the vast majority of people (in general) don't give a damn what your sexual orientation is. It is even more pronounced amongst the people with whom you will associate upon 'coming out'.

It's pedantic biatching. If you're gay, be gay. It's not like you will have a hard time finding folks who will accept you.

Not sure if serious, but, uh, yeah, you do sometimes have a hard time.

Here's an experiment for you: pretend to be openly gay for six months. Tell your family you're gay. "Come out" to all your friends. Wear t-shirts that announce to the world that you're gay. Date only members of the same sex (you don't have to do more than go on dates and hold their hands). Walk down the street holding hands with your boyfriend (or girlfriend, if you're a woman). Be very, very publicly open about your pretend-homosexuality for those six months.

Do this for six months, then come back and tell us all about how easy it is.


Actually, that would be interesting, and if I were still 20, I might do it (had I thought of it). However, now that I'm married with kids, I'm not going to screw up my family for the sake of a social experiment.
 
2012-04-08 12:22:02 AM

mama's_tasty_foods: For those of you who are not LDS- why the hell would you ever move to Utah?


www.skiutah.com
 
2012-04-08 12:23:05 AM

Lando Lincoln: Johnny Savage: I think you dismiss lightly some of the ostracism experienced by those groups, but the point is still the same. It's your life. You must live it as you choose.

Except it's not a farking choice who you become sexually attracted to.


No matter who you are, how you live your life IS a choice.

/Top to bottom
//Left to right
///Reading is fundamental
 
2012-04-08 12:24:24 AM

Johnny Savage: Going to hell because you're gay is completely different from going to hell because you're Muslim/Catholic/Intermarried/etc.


Yeah, I don't believe in that nonsense. You're not going to go to hell if you're hard-wired to be homosexual. Any God that would condemn a person for that is not a God that should be praised.
 
2012-04-08 12:25:07 AM

mama's_tasty_foods: For those of you who are not LDS- why the hell would you ever move to Utah?


I'm openly gay non-mormon who was raised in Detroit and live in Utah because:

1. I'm an aerospace engineer and Utah has a lot of aerospace industry.
2. I ski a lot and "this is the place" for die-hard skiiers(mormons will get the pun)
3. It's MUCH better than where I grew up, Detroit.
4. The culture in SLC is much different than the rest of the state.
4. I confident enough to not care what a bunch of Prozac popping people who think god lives on a planet called Kolob think about me.
 
2012-04-08 12:25:31 AM

Johnny Savage: No matter who you are, how you live your life IS a choice.


For instance, you can choose to be a bigoted asshole, and follow the teachings of other bigoted assholes.

Or you can choose to be a good person and contribute to society in a positive way.
 
2012-04-08 12:26:14 AM

Johnny Savage: rynthetyn: Johnny Savage: ciberido: Johnny Savage: The problem with the campaign is that the vast majority of people (in general) don't give a damn what your sexual orientation is. It is even more pronounced amongst the people with whom you will associate upon 'coming out'.

It's pedantic biatching. If you're gay, be gay. It's not like you will have a hard time finding folks who will accept you.

Not sure if serious, but, uh, yeah, you do sometimes have a hard time.

Here's an experiment for you: pretend to be openly gay for six months. Tell your family you're gay. "Come out" to all your friends. Wear t-shirts that announce to the world that you're gay. Date only members of the same sex (you don't have to do more than go on dates and hold their hands). Walk down the street holding hands with your boyfriend (or girlfriend, if you're a woman). Be very, very publicly open about your pretend-homosexuality for those six months.

Do this for six months, then come back and tell us all about how easy it is.

/blah blah blah

Try the same thing as a:

Mormon
Southern Baptist in the north
Muslim
Orthodox Jew
Mennonite
Fundamentalist Baptist
Moonie
Interracial couple
Hindi
et cetera
et cetera
et cetera

If you differ at all from the mean, you will be scrutinized. Get over it.

I've been Southern Baptist in the north, and I've had people tell me that my Mennonite ancestor who got beheaded by Calvinists in 17th century Switzerland was probably crazy and asking for it, and it's a heck of a lot different than my experience being openly gay.

The only thing that might be comparable, as far as facing not only ostracism from society but also from your own family is the experience of interracial couples.

I think you dismiss lightly some of the ostracism experienced by those groups, but the point is still the same. It's your life. You must live it as you choose.


I think the point is that identification with a certain religious group tends to be shared with your family and oftentimes your community. While Muslims and Orthodox Jews may experience discrimination in the US, if they were brought up in that faith and in a community with others of that faith they still have a support network and others with the same views to fall back on.

In contrast someone coming out as gay oftentimes faces some of the strongest opposition from their own family and community - people who may even be thinking they are doing the right thing by trying to 'fix' them.

For the religion example to work it would be more like someone who was brought up as a devout Catholic/Baptist/etc converting to Islam. It would immediately alter the level of support and the nature of interaction with that person's entire family and support network.

Of course, it's not like that in all cases, I've had gay friends whose family never skipped a beat when they came out, but like anything socially progressive some families and communities are going to be more open with it than others. A white guy dating a black girl in most of the northeast or west coast is no big deal, the same thing happening in rural Alabama is a different story.
 
2012-04-08 12:26:54 AM
Be who you are.
Some will embrace you, some will turn their backs, some just won't give a flying fark at a jelly donut.
If you don't love yourself, why would anyone else?
 
2012-04-08 12:27:33 AM

Ed Grubermann: digitalpirate: runnenat: "74% of LGBT students at BYU have contemplated suicide. 24% have attempted sucide."

=[

This was hard to watch for me, I'm glad it got better at the end.

/pun not intended

Utah has the highest suicide rate in the US except for Alaska. It also consumes more antidepressants. It is also the home of the LDS church. This is not a coincidence.

Alaska is higher due to the prolonged darkness of winter and the horrible living conditions in the native villages. Thanks, missionaries, for destroying a culture that lasted for thousands of years and replacing it with a culture steeped in guilt and misery. We're all very happy about that. You pieces of shiat.


Alaska has a higher suicide rate than Utah. And so do most of the states surrounding Utah. (new window)
 
2012-04-08 12:29:12 AM

Lipspinach: Johnny Savage: Lipspinach: Johnny Savage: I had a good friend that was enticed (his words) into the community after college. He was miserable until he 'came out' to his friends that he wasn't gay. He married a chick about 5 years ago.

A HA! I KNEW IT! The Moral Majority was right! I've heard of these roving
bands of homosexuals indoctrinating our youth with their gayness.

/but seriously, that is extremely odd. Never heard of that before.
I have so many questions.....

I knew him two years as a gay man before he switched teams.

Interesting, though. I'm sure you would advocate that it's possible for a gay man to live life miserably as a straight man (In the closet). But, it's impossible for a straight man to live life miserably as a gay man.

It sounds like you don't believe that gays are equal to straights. Why do you hate gay folk?

I don't know how you got that idea from what I said. Hate gay folk?
Or are you joking?
I've certainly heard of queers living miserable closeted lives. A bunch of my friends went through that bullshiat when they were younger. But I have NEVER heard of the reverse. Like I said, it just seems odd to me.


Sorry, I might have gone over the top with that. We're on fark, I almost feel like I have to. That was unnecessary.
 
2012-04-08 12:31:59 AM

digitalpirate: mama's_tasty_foods: For those of you who are not LDS- why the hell would you ever move to Utah?


4. The culture in SLC is much different than the rest of the state.
.



People get that Manhattan is not the same as the Adirondacks.

People get that Chicago is not the same as the Deliverance Extras in downstate Illinois.

People get that Miami Beach is not the same as the Flat West Virginia that is the Panhandle.

But you point out that Salt Lake City is different than Polygamy Country or even Happy Valley; no one gets that or believes it.
 
2012-04-08 12:32:03 AM

Anonymocoso: mama's_tasty_foods: For those of you who are not LDS- why the hell would you ever move to Utah?

[www.skiutah.com image 600x400]


The scenery is pretty but so is Florida. And it's full of morons too.
 
2012-04-08 12:34:31 AM

Anonymocoso: People get that Chicago is not the same as the Deliverance Extras in downstate Illinois.


Hey it's not that bad downstate...

/Ah who am I kidding?
 
2012-04-08 12:34:52 AM
You're not excommunicated for being gay. You can be excommunicated for immoral (including homosexual) acts. You can have gay tendencies and serve in church leadership positions, even. Just don't promote, encourage, or condone gay sex (or premarital sex, or extramarital sex). Saying it's okay is going against the church, so if you think the church is wrong--jeeez, just get out, already.
 
2012-04-08 12:35:39 AM
TuteTibiImperes

That was kind of my point.
 
2012-04-08 12:35:43 AM

Anonymocoso: digitalpirate: mama's_tasty_foods: For those of you who are not LDS- why the hell would you ever move to Utah?


4. The culture in SLC is much different than the rest of the state.
.


People get that Manhattan is not the same as the Adirondacks.

People get that Chicago is not the same as the Deliverance Extras in downstate Illinois.

People get that Miami Beach is not the same as the Flat West Virginia that is the Panhandle.

But you point out that Salt Lake City is different than Polygamy Country or even Happy Valley; no one gets that or believes it.


SLC is pretty small compared to NYC, Chicago or Miami by comparison though.
 
2012-04-08 12:37:32 AM
Utah and Florida both have morons.

But Utah doesn't have hurricanes and real estate values have only partially imploded.
 
2012-04-08 12:39:29 AM

Anonymocoso: Utah and Florida both have morons.

But Utah doesn't have hurricanes and real estate values have only partially imploded.


But I don't like cold and Great Salt Lake isn't my version of a beach.
 
2012-04-08 12:40:35 AM
Briiigham Young...his nose was a clitoris!
 
2012-04-08 12:41:52 AM

Anonymocoso: Utah and Florida both have morons.

But Utah doesn't have hurricanes and real estate values have only partially imploded.


Ah, but in FL you can get a better deal on a house and the liquor laws are more favorable.
 
2012-04-08 12:42:41 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Johnny Savage: rynthetyn: Johnny Savage: ciberido: Johnny Savage: The problem with the campaign is that the vast majority of people (in general) don't give a damn what your sexual orientation is. It is even more pronounced amongst the people with whom you will associate upon 'coming out'.

It's pedantic biatching. If you're gay, be gay. It's not like you will have a hard time finding folks who will accept you.

Not sure if serious, but, uh, yeah, you do sometimes have a hard time.

Here's an experiment for you: pretend to be openly gay for six months. Tell your family you're gay. "Come out" to all your friends. Wear t-shirts that announce to the world that you're gay. Date only members of the same sex (you don't have to do more than go on dates and hold their hands). Walk down the street holding hands with your boyfriend (or girlfriend, if you're a woman). Be very, very publicly open about your pretend-homosexuality for those six months.

Do this for six months, then come back and tell us all about how easy it is.

/blah blah blah

Try the same thing as a:

Mormon
Southern Baptist in the north
Muslim
Orthodox Jew
Mennonite
Fundamentalist Baptist
Moonie
Interracial couple
Hindi
et cetera
et cetera
et cetera

If you differ at all from the mean, you will be scrutinized. Get over it.

I've been Southern Baptist in the north, and I've had people tell me that my Mennonite ancestor who got beheaded by Calvinists in 17th century Switzerland was probably crazy and asking for it, and it's a heck of a lot different than my experience being openly gay.

The only thing that might be comparable, as far as facing not only ostracism from society but also from your own family is the experience of interracial couples.

I think you dismiss lightly some of the ostracism experienced by those groups, but the point is still the same. It's your life. You must live it as you choose.

I think the point is that identification with a certain religious group tends to be shared with your family and oftentimes your community. While Muslims and Orthodox Jews may experience discrimination in the US, if they were brought up in that faith and in a community with others of that faith they still have a support network and others with the same views to fall back on.

In contrast someone coming out as gay oftentimes faces some of the strongest opposition from their own family and community - people who may even be thinking they are doing the right thing by trying to 'fix' them.

For the religion example to work it would be more like someone who was brought up as a devout Catholic/Baptist/etc converting to Islam. It would immediately alter the level of support and the nature of interaction with that person's entire family and support network.

Of course, it's not like that in all cases, I've had gay friends whose family never skipped a beat when they came out, but like anything socially progressive some families and communities are going to be more open with it than others. A white guy dating a black girl in most of the northeast or west coast is no big deal, the same thing happening in rural Alabama is a different story.


By way of example, my younger brother went off to Liberty University as a Calvinist Presbyterian and spent four years hearing the dean of the Biblical Studies department lecturing them all in chapel on a regular basis about how horrible Calvinists are, how they're heretics, etc, etc. It wasn't anything other than a mild annoyance to him because his beliefs were supported by family and community back home and because ultimately theological differences are just ideology and not a core identity issue. Even though on the surface, getting told you're a heretic (with the implication you're going to hell) because you're a Calvinist and getting told you're going to hell because you're gay are both examples of getting told you're going to hell, it's a completely different experience when you're being lectured because of theological differences and because you're gay.
 
2012-04-08 12:52:04 AM
Florida: Overrun by hordes of retirees

Utah: Overrun by hordes of Crotchfruit.

Tossup.
 
2012-04-08 12:52:57 AM

Anonymocoso: digitalpirate: mama's_tasty_foods: For those of you who are not LDS- why the hell would you ever move to Utah?


4. The culture in SLC is much different than the rest of the state.
.


People get that Manhattan is not the same as the Adirondacks.

People get that Chicago is not the same as the Deliverance Extras in downstate Illinois.

People get that Miami Beach is not the same as the Flat West Virginia that is the Panhandle.

But you point out that Salt Lake City is different than Polygamy Country or even Happy Valley; no one gets that or believes it.


SLC is MUCH different than the rest of Utah. SLC consistantly elects a democratic mayor. I live in an area called The Avenues and know of at least 10 gay households on 4 blocks alone. The PRIDE parade is very large considering the size of the city.

We've pretty much chased the mormons into the suburbs. It's sort of the way Austin is much different than Texas...sort of.

SLC is the biggest city within a 4 hour drive in any direction. If you don't fit into your culture you can move to SLC and not have to worry about fitting in anymore.
 
2012-04-08 12:57:14 AM

Johnny Savage: No matter who you are, how you live your life IS a choice.


Ah, so you're just a bigot and/or a troll. Nevermind, then.
 
2012-04-08 12:58:31 AM
Bah, it won't get better as long as you stay around the same narrow minded people making you miserable to begin with. Like staying at BYU when you know you're gay, for instance. The world is a big place and you can find a place where you can be you. Or you can stay in the same repressive religion, with the same intolerant people, and tell yourself that they'll get over it someday. Your choice. However, if you choose the whole stay in the church thing, you're going to have to learn to not be you and be happy not being you. Just so you know.
 
2012-04-08 01:00:45 AM
People in the closet are dead men walking.
 
2012-04-08 01:02:52 AM

Fluorescent Testicle: Johnny Savage: No matter who you are, how you live your life IS a choice.

Ah, so you're just a bigot and/or a troll. Nevermind, then.


Took you that long to figure it out?
 
2012-04-08 01:08:48 AM

Johnny Savage: Molavian: Marshall Willenholly: Johnny Savage: Marshall Willenholly: As a member of the LGBT community, I have to tell myself several times a day that hopefully things will get better. Otherwise I end up in a downward spiral of depression that doesn't end well. So any time someone else comes along and says that it will (probably) get better, I very much appreciate it.

Have you considered the possibility that you are miserable because you are not LGBT? I don't know you, so I'm just asking.

Um,no, I am most definitely LGBT. I'm miserable because intolerant close-minded farkers like to make me feel like there's something wrong with me because I'm not "normal".

So why do you hang out with intolerant close-minded farkers? Tell them to piss off and find new friends. If they're your family, tell them to piss off, too. You're in control of your own future, your own happiness in life. You want it to get better? Make it better.

Well said. I told my family to piss off because they didn't care for my Catholic wife. After they unbunched their panties, they got over it. I didn't find much use in stewing over the fact that they didn't like/understand Catholics.


Holy shiat. My wife is Catholic and I'm an agnostic, so we got it from both families. My dad is a hardcore atheist, and I haven't talked to him in 6 or 7 years. Her family...suffice to say that I only beat her mom because I outlived her.
 
2012-04-08 01:08:59 AM
Let's set one thing right here...
If you are straight, that's okay.
If you are gay, that's okay too.
If you are bisexual, that's just damn greedy. Pick a team and play for it!
 
2012-04-08 01:25:32 AM

Anonymocoso: digitalpirate: mama's_tasty_foods: For those of you who are not LDS- why the hell would you ever move to Utah?


4. The culture in SLC is much different than the rest of the state.
.


People get that Manhattan is not the same as the Adirondacks.

People get that Chicago is not the same as the Deliverance Extras in downstate Illinois.

People get that Miami Beach is not the same as the Flat West Virginia that is the Panhandle.

But you point out that Salt Lake City is different than Polygamy Country or even Happy Valley; no one gets that or believes it.


Grew up in Happy Valley...if there is such a thing as hell on earth, it's Utah County. I live in Murray and it's too close to suburbia for my taste. I miss living downtown.
 
2012-04-08 01:25:46 AM
These kids were raised by cavemen, they know no better. They do not know that not everyone is a medieval hater.
Just like Black Jews should not apply for the KKK, these kids should find education in a caring environment.
There is so much hate in the world, and BYU is H8 central. Run away. Don't walk, run.
 
2012-04-08 01:51:41 AM

Johnny Savage: coco ebert: That's the problem with the whole "It gets better" campaign. It often doesn't.

The problem with the campaign is that the vast majority of people (in general) don't give a damn what your sexual orientation is. It is even more pronounced amongst the people with whom you will associate upon 'coming out'.

It's pedantic biatching. If you're gay, be gay. It's not like you will have a hard time finding folks who will accept you.


Yeah, I don't know why those stupid 15 year olds in Podunk, Georgia don't just up and leave their family and everyone they've ever known behind and go to the coast. Lazy kids.
 
2012-04-08 01:57:47 AM

Johnny Savage: The problem with the campaign is that the vast majority of people (in general) don't give a damn what your sexual orientation is. It is even more pronounced amongst the people with whom you will associate upon 'coming out'.

It's pedantic biatching. If you're gay, be gay. It's not like you will have a hard time finding folks who will accept you.


Johnny Savage: If you differ at all from the mean, you will be scrutinized. Get over it.


Not sure if you're too stupid to realize that you're contradicting yourself, or trolling. Either way, I'm done.
 
2012-04-08 01:59:22 AM

Lipspinach: Johnny Savage: Lipspinach: Johnny Savage: I had a good friend that was enticed (his words) into the community after college. He was miserable until he 'came out' to his friends that he wasn't gay. He married a chick about 5 years ago.

A HA! I KNEW IT! The Moral Majority was right! I've heard of these roving
bands of homosexuals indoctrinating our youth with their gayness.

/but seriously, that is extremely odd. Never heard of that before.
I have so many questions.....

I knew him two years as a gay man before he switched teams.

Interesting, though. I'm sure you would advocate that it's possible for a gay man to live life miserably as a straight man (In the closet). But, it's impossible for a straight man to live life miserably as a gay man.

It sounds like you don't believe that gays are equal to straights. Why do you hate gay folk?

I don't know how you got that idea from what I said. Hate gay folk?
Or are you joking?
I've certainly heard of queers living miserable closeted lives. A bunch of my friends went through that bullshiat when they were younger. But I have NEVER heard of the reverse. Like I said, it just seems odd to me.


It's "odd" because it's stupid. Why would a straight person pretend to be gay and date (and presumably have sex with) guys for two years, unless of course he's trying to fool the landlord. A closeted gay person doesn't want to acknowledge that he's gay and fears rejection from friends and family. A straight person is not going to be kicked out on the street or ridiculed for saying he likes the opposite sex.
Johnny Savage's friend (if he exists at all) is bisexual, obviously. Capable of loving and being sexually attracted to both genders. This isn't rocket science.
 
2012-04-08 02:01:36 AM

UCFRoadWarrior: Are we still blaming Mormons for Prop 8 passing in California?

Even when the largest percentage of support came from the black and hispanic community.....

Sounds like a Mormon bashing thread (although their stance on LGBT is quite archaic)



Has anyone pointed out that mama's little Florida tag was the first person to mention Prop 8? Or California, for that matter? Nice that they took time off from trolling Zimmerman threads to contribute their insight incite here.
 
2012-04-08 02:01:58 AM
I can be tempted to lie about something, but it doesn't become a "sin" unless I actually tell the lie. I can be sexually attracted to another woman, it doesn't become a "sin" until I act on that attraction. We can't always choose how we feel or what we think but we can choose our actions in regards to any given situation. We all have choices, some are (much) harder than others.
 
2012-04-08 02:04:43 AM

vudukungfu: Religion corrupts human sexuality. The simplest form of sharing joy.
It isn't the other way around.


To be fair, unshackled human sexuality also turned out to be a terrible, terrible idea. Because apparently free love is more like free rides for STIs.
 
2012-04-08 02:04:48 AM

ciberido: Here's an experiment for you: pretend to be openly gay for six months. Tell your family you're gay. "Come out" to all your friends. Wear t-shirts that announce to the world that you're gay. Date only members of the same sex (you don't have to do more than go on dates and hold their hands). Walk down the street holding hands with your boyfriend (or girlfriend, if you're a woman). Be very, very publicly open about your pretend-homosexuality for those six months.


oldsbone: Actually, that would be interesting, and if I were still 20, I might do it (had I thought of it). However, now that I'm married with kids, I'm not going to screw up my family for the sake of a social experiment.


4.bp.blogspot.comwww.jlopezdesign.com

It's been done before.

Black Like Me

Self-Made Man
 
2012-04-08 02:04:52 AM

Johnny Savage: I_Hate_Iowa: Johnny Savage: Krieghund: Johnny Savage: It's pedantic biatching. If you're gay, be gay. It's not like you will have a hard time finding folks who will accept you.

Yeah, because it's so easy for a kid that has been told his entire life that being gay is evil to accept that he's gay.
/sarcasm

Fortunately, eventually most gay kids come to realize that they aren't in fact evil for wanting to have same-sex sex. And their lives improve.

Now, if only there was some way older people who went through the same thing could communicate this to kids. Some kind of campaign.

So... if you're gay... you need a campaign to convince you that it's cool to be gay? a campaign to counter the argument that gay people are wicked and going to hell is quite useful, especially when we hear story after story about gay kids killing themselves because their will to live is being broken.

Sounds like indoctrination. I'm an idiot.

You're right. No child has ever, in the history of mankind, had to overcome the teachings/doctrines of their parents until this whole 'gay' thing came around.


It's not just their parents. In some places, gay kids - or even kids just perceived to be gay - are bullied by classmates, teachers, school administrators, and others in the community as well. There is literally no support for some of these kids. If there's a constant barrage of "Gay = sinful, evil, horrible, terrible" coming at them, what's the problem with a campaign that says "We disagree. You'll have a chance to get away from that and be happy. Please don't kill yourself in the mean time."? Are you arguing that a "Please don't kill yourself even though it's pretty goddamn rough for you right now" campaign should be axed?
 
2012-04-08 02:06:01 AM

OhLuverly: it doesn't become a "sin" until I act on that attraction


No it only becomes a sin in the sense someone, not very long ago at that, decided it was. Now, allowing someone to go hungry, that goes contrary to what Jesus taught and that is a sin. Even if people like Joel Osteen and various televangelists and others pretend it's not.
 
2012-04-08 02:07:24 AM

Injuneer: These kids were raised by cavemen, they know no better. They do not know that not everyone is a medieval hater.
Just like Black Jews should not apply for the KKK, these kids should find education in a caring environment.
There is so much hate in the world, and BYU is H8 central. Run away. Don't walk, run.


Henry Rollins' advice: Find A God Who Likes You (new window)
 
2012-04-08 02:09:35 AM

Akambe: You're not excommunicated for being gay. You can be excommunicated for immoral (including homosexual) acts.


So it's ok to be gay so long as you never, ever have sex with anyone? Seriously, that's your defense?
 
2012-04-08 02:10:20 AM

WhyteRaven74: OhLuverly: it doesn't become a "sin" until I act on that attraction

No it only becomes a sin in the sense someone, not very long ago at that, decided it was. Now, allowing someone to go hungry, that goes contrary to what Jesus taught and that is a sin. Even if people like Joel Osteen and various televangelists and others pretend it's not.


which is why I put the word sin in quotations. Apparently that didn't translate as well as I assumed it would.
 
2012-04-08 02:12:18 AM

OhLuverly: I can be tempted to lie about something, but it doesn't become a "sin" unless I actually tell the lie. I can be sexually attracted to another woman, it doesn't become a "sin" until I act on that attraction. We can't always choose how we feel or what we think but we can choose our actions in regards to any given situation. We all have choices, some are (much) harder than others.


Fark that noise. You're either ok with gay sex or you're a homophobe. That "It's ok to be gay so long as you never have sex" bullshiete does not wash. We are not fooled by it. Just have a speck of honesty and admit you're a damn homophobe.
 
2012-04-08 02:21:35 AM

ciberido: OhLuverly: I can be tempted to lie about something, but it doesn't become a "sin" unless I actually tell the lie. I can be sexually attracted to another woman, it doesn't become a "sin" until I act on that attraction. We can't always choose how we feel or what we think but we can choose our actions in regards to any given situation. We all have choices, some are (much) harder than others.

Fark that noise. You're either ok with gay sex or you're a homophobe. That "It's ok to be gay so long as you never have sex" bullshiete does not wash. We are not fooled by it. Just have a speck of honesty and admit you're a damn homophobe.


I'm ok with people, who with or how they have sex is not any of my business. Is gay sex for me? No, I know this because I experimented like most people do. Again I used "sin" instead of sin because in these types of situations sin is a relative term. If you want to judge me to be a homophobe feel free, I have no desire to gain your approval.
 
2012-04-08 02:22:46 AM
Gay mormons make as much sense to me as gay republicans. It Gets Better when you Get the Fark Out.
 
2012-04-08 02:30:54 AM

ciberido: OhLuverly: I can be tempted to lie about something, but it doesn't become a "sin" unless I actually tell the lie. I can be sexually attracted to another woman, it doesn't become a "sin" until I act on that attraction. We can't always choose how we feel or what we think but we can choose our actions in regards to any given situation. We all have choices, some are (much) harder than others.

Fark that noise. You're either ok with gay sex or you're a homophobe. That "It's ok to be gay so long as you never have sex" bullshiete does not wash. We are not fooled by it. Just have a speck of honesty and admit you're a damn homophobe.


Sort of. Who we choose to have sex with is a choice. If we are having sex against our will it's called "rape". I think her point was that people make lifestyle choices. She never claimed that any were wrong or immoral.

Also, we are dealing with people who believe that an invisible sky wizard who lives on a planet called Kolob with his many wives and commands us to wear special underwear . Using logic sort of goes out the window whenever we deal with religous people.

PS:
Homo:ones own kind
Phobia:fear of
Homophobia:fear of ones own kind
We need to retire the word "homophobia" like we retired rainbows and pastel Izod shirts. All 3 have become tired stereotypes.
 
2012-04-08 02:33:03 AM

eddiesocket: Lipspinach: Johnny Savage: Lipspinach: Johnny Savage: I had a good friend that was enticed (his words) into the community after college. He was miserable until he 'came out' to his friends that he wasn't gay. He married a chick about 5 years ago.

A HA! I KNEW IT! The Moral Majority was right! I've heard of these roving
bands of homosexuals indoctrinating our youth with their gayness.

/but seriously, that is extremely odd. Never heard of that before.
I have so many questions.....

I knew him two years as a gay man before he switched teams.

Interesting, though. I'm sure you would advocate that it's possible for a gay man to live life miserably as a straight man (In the closet). But, it's impossible for a straight man to live life miserably as a gay man.

It sounds like you don't believe that gays are equal to straights. Why do you hate gay folk?

I don't know how you got that idea from what I said. Hate gay folk?
Or are you joking?
I've certainly heard of queers living miserable closeted lives. A bunch of my friends went through that bullshiat when they were younger. But I have NEVER heard of the reverse. Like I said, it just seems odd to me.

It's "odd" because it's stupid. Why would a straight person pretend to be gay and date (and presumably have sex with) guys for two years, unless of course he's trying to fool the landlord. A closeted gay person doesn't want to acknowledge that he's gay and fears rejection from friends and family. A straight person is not going to be kicked out on the street or ridiculed for saying he likes the opposite sex.
Johnny Savage's friend (if he exists at all) is bisexual, obviously. Capable of loving and being sexually attracted to both genders. This isn't rocket science.


And probably the friend, assuming the friend existed, was miserable because it's not like dealing with microaggressions and being reminded constantly that you're a second class citizen is the most fun thing in the world, especially if you don't fully accept yourself. I can understand why someone who has the capacity for attraction to the opposite sex would decide to find an opposite sex spouse to marry and settle down with and to try to pretend that the whole gay thing was just a confused phase--especially if you want the family and the white picket fence it is the path of least resistance. Pretending to be 100% straight when you're not, though, would have it's own set of issues, I'd imagine. The kind of issues that lead to wide stances in airport bathrooms.
 
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