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(CNN)   Think the NRA is just about guns? Think again   (cnn.com) divider line 316
    More: Obvious, NRA, American Legislative Exchange Council, state legislators, McCain-Feingold, campaign finance reform, David Keene, martin case, American Conservative Union  
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9506 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Apr 2012 at 9:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-08 01:13:18 AM
I particularly like these two sentences...

"But Spitzer said the NRA will always be primarily about guns and what they stand for in the individualist American mythology.

He said the NRA's work is cut out for it, because gun ownership is on the decline in America."


This at a time when all the media, and gun shops are declaring that gun manufacturers are at least six months back ordering on firearms because of demand. And demand is listed as 1) Obammer gonna git r guns, 2) Doomsday Preppers and 3) Zombies. Who knew?

http://gma.yahoo.com/gun-sales-booming-doomsday-obama-zombies-1939291 8 4--abc-news-money.html
 
2012-04-08 01:22:09 AM

way south: I see the NRA as a necessary evil.

In a perfect world a constitutional right wouldn't be questioned. But events have shown that the 2nd amendment, which has been greatly neutered, would cease to exist without some kind of advocacy.
In a perfect world our representatives wouldn't need to be lobbied with cash and promises of votes just to do the right thing. Unfortunately, lobbyist are essential to getting anything done in Washington.

Once you have a lobby large enough to swing the votes and money needed, its also going to end up beholding to many different interests.

/Pulling the wind out of the NRA's sails is as simple as repealing a few major gun laws.
/Reopen the Machine gun registry and get rid of sbr and suppressor limits, for starters.


The 2nd Amendment is greatly neutered? In what universe? Certainly not in a post-Heller one.
 
2012-04-08 01:24:11 AM

The_Sponge: Smackledorfer: With or without plans for violence, big ass pistol mags are stupid. At some point, your hand cannon is taking up too much space and you might want to consider a long arm or maybe something like an ump. With the folded buttstock you'll be able to hide that as easily as a pistol with a 30 round mag.


So you want to ban things just because they're "stupid"?

Oh....and I don't own any 30 round mags for my handguns....just my rifles. But I'll be honest and say that I've thought about buying a 30 round mag for my Beretta 92FS....just to have some fun with it at the outdoor range.

At least you're not the type who is asking for a 10 round max capacity on magazines.


Nope, I never said they should be banned at all.
 
2012-04-08 01:26:20 AM

Refudiated Strategerist: I particularly like these two sentences...

"But Spitzer said the NRA will always be primarily about guns and what they stand for in the individualist American mythology.

He said the NRA's work is cut out for it, because gun ownership is on the decline in America."

This at a time when all the media, and gun shops are declaring that gun manufacturers are at least six months back ordering on firearms because of demand. And demand is listed as 1) Obammer gonna git r guns, 2) Doomsday Preppers and 3) Zombies. Who knew?

http://gma.yahoo.com/gun-sales-booming-doomsday-obama-zombies-1939291 8 4--abc-news-money.html


I have enough guns to get my crazy gun toting neighbor in his sleep: 1. He can be the guy who stocks up.

And having watched walking dead though, I need a crossbow, and probably a good spear.
 
2012-04-08 01:27:59 AM

CommieTaoist: So how do voter id and immigration laws relate to the second amendment?


The NRA is a pro-gun-nut organization.

A large number of gun-nuts see their guns as the final protection against THEM. You know the hordes of slavering Negros and Mexicans that will rob them of their goods and women. And don't forget the socialists and communists and unionists (who are in league with the Negros and Mexicans) who also make gun-nuts wet their beds in fear.

To get membership and contributions, the NRA is in favor of racism, anti-unionism, and "Patriotism".
 
2012-04-08 01:34:57 AM

HairBolus: the NRA is in favor of racism,



Oh really? Because that would come as quite a surprise to NRA members such as Karl Malone and James Earl Jones.
 
2012-04-08 01:35:27 AM

Smackledorfer: Nope, I never said they should be banned at all.


If I were to ban any guns, it would be fully automatics (and multi-round burst, since that's the more effective way to use them anyways) weapons, but honestly I really don't see the point one way or another. Anyone who wants to gear up and blow the shiat out of something can get the job done with a bunch of standard pistols. Anyone interested in going on a killing spree can still do a damn fine job with a single semi-automatic rifle.

Or, you know, make their own bomb and take out a chemical-laden train in the middle of a city*.

*I should really stop mentioning that; I'm probably on a terrorist watch list by now.
 
2012-04-08 01:36:15 AM

The_Sponge: HairBolus: the NRA is in favor of racism,


Oh really? Because that would come as quite a surprise to NRA members such as Karl Malone and James Earl Jones.


James is just mad that he never got past the secret of lead.
 
2012-04-08 01:36:47 AM

dr_blasto: Let me know when the NRA stops with their crazy right-wing shiat and focuses on the crazy state laws.



You do realize that they have focused lobbying efforts on the state level for quite some time and will continue to do so, right?
 
2012-04-08 01:37:30 AM

rynthetyn: way south: I see the NRA as a necessary evil.

In a perfect world a constitutional right wouldn't be questioned. But events have shown that the 2nd amendment, which has been greatly neutered, would cease to exist without some kind of advocacy.
In a perfect world our representatives wouldn't need to be lobbied with cash and promises of votes just to do the right thing. Unfortunately, lobbyist are essential to getting anything done in Washington.

Once you have a lobby large enough to swing the votes and money needed, its also going to end up beholding to many different interests.

/Pulling the wind out of the NRA's sails is as simple as repealing a few major gun laws.
/Reopen the Machine gun registry and get rid of sbr and suppressor limits, for starters.

The 2nd Amendment is greatly neutered? In what universe? Certainly not in a post-Heller one.


Do YOU see a lot of privately-owned ICBMs? if every citizen doesn't have enough firepower to wipe out a small country, the 2nd amendment is being disrespected.
 
2012-04-08 01:39:08 AM
way south 2012-04-08 01:08:19 AM

I see the NRA as a necessary evil.

In a perfect world a constitutional right wouldn't be questioned. But events have shown that the 2nd amendment, which has been greatly neutered,


Oh really?

How?
 
2012-04-08 01:59:27 AM

Kittypie070: way south 2012-04-08 01:08:19 AM

I see the NRA as a necessary evil.

In a perfect world a constitutional right wouldn't be questioned. But events have shown that the 2nd amendment, which has been greatly neutered,

Oh really?

How?


Off the top of my head... NFA '34, GCA '68, Hughes Amendment '86, Lautenberg Amendment '96, then there's the whole "Terrorist Watch-list" debacle...
 
2012-04-08 02:12:26 AM
Would anyone be surprised if in 20 years the NRA was it's own political party and militia?
 
2012-04-08 02:14:01 AM

Smackledorfer: The_Sponge: HairBolus: the NRA is in favor of racism,


Oh really? Because that would come as quite a surprise to NRA members such as Karl Malone and James Earl Jones.


Ah, the old just because 80% percent or the organization is white racists that doesn't mean it is a racist organization because it is not 100% and they don't explicitly promote white racism just policy that white racists like.

Many would like open season declared on liberals, Negros, and Mexicans with no bag limit.

Some black organizations like the real old Black Panthers were strongly in favor of gun ownership and some of them would have liked an open season declared on cops.
 
2012-04-08 02:25:13 AM

revrendjim: I quit the NRA four years ago because I kept getting insane emails from Wayne LaPierre about how Obama would be the most anti-gun president ever and this was the most important election in the history of the world. I voted for Obama.


he would be if he could be.
 
2012-04-08 02:28:06 AM

pnkgtr: Would anyone be surprised if in 20 years the NRA was it's own political party and militia?


I would. By 2032 most members of the NRA will either be too old to mobilize or they'll be 40-50 year old Iraq / Afghanistan vets... who've seen enough insurgents to not want to be one.

We'll be alright.
 
2012-04-08 02:28:30 AM

USP .45: revrendjim: I quit the NRA four years ago because I kept getting insane emails from Wayne LaPierre about how Obama would be the most anti-gun president ever and this was the most important election in the history of the world. I voted for Obama.

he would be if he could be.


This is what the rubes actually believe.
 
2012-04-08 02:36:20 AM

USP .45: revrendjim: I quit the NRA four years ago because I kept getting insane emails from Wayne LaPierre about how Obama would be the most anti-gun president ever and this was the most important election in the history of the world. I voted for Obama.

he would be if he could be.


Man, getting your head that far in your own ass takes some *impressive* flexibility.
 
2012-04-08 02:40:46 AM
People should start wagering or offering a year of TF to any takers if they are confident Obama would not influence/back/sign new gun control legislation.
 
2012-04-08 02:46:24 AM

LordJiro: USP .45: revrendjim: I quit the NRA four years ago because I kept getting insane emails from Wayne LaPierre about how Obama would be the most anti-gun president ever and this was the most important election in the history of the world. I voted for Obama.

he would be if he could be.

Man, getting your head that far in your own ass takes some *impressive* flexibility.


I'll say. He's licking his own tonsils.
 
2012-04-08 02:48:07 AM

Giltric: People should start wagering or offering a year of TF to any takers if they are confident Obama would not influence/back/sign new gun control legislation.


Sure, Obama's EXPANDED gun rights, but it's just to lull us into a false sense of security.
 
2012-04-08 02:51:15 AM

LordJiro: USP .45: revrendjim: I quit the NRA four years ago because I kept getting insane emails from Wayne LaPierre about how Obama would be the most anti-gun president ever and this was the most important election in the history of the world. I voted for Obama.

he would be if he could be.

Man, getting your head that far in your own ass takes some *impressive* flexibility.


Takes practice, too.

(Regarding the Vietnam War) "Not to mention the fact that we chose to leave, they didn't kick us out. Again, not an endorsement of the war, but it wasn't a military defeat."

- USP .45 2008-03-22 01:10:58 AM

(Regarding the Iraq War) "From a military perspective, the WMD aspect was a victory. If your mission is to capture an artillery piece that you find isn't there and never was, you didn't fail the mission. To make fun of myself, *cue Mission Accomplished banner* That indeed was a political loss and political failure."

- USP .45 2008-03-22 01:50:45 AM
 
2012-04-08 02:52:19 AM
outdoorchannel.com
 
2012-04-08 04:07:42 AM

LordJiro: Giltric: People should start wagering or offering a year of TF to any takers if they are confident Obama would not influence/back/sign new gun control legislation.

Sure, Obama's EXPANDED gun rights, but it's just to lull us into a false sense of security.


I'll take that as a no.
 
2012-04-08 04:32:02 AM

AngryDragon: ACLU


The NRA has half again the budget of the ACLU. The ACLU doesn't bother with 2nd Amendment cases because the NRA has more money and has that covered.
 
2012-04-08 04:46:16 AM

SN1987a goes boom: I'm a liberal libertarian that supports gun rights within reason. Should you be able to own SKSs, sure. How about 30 round handgun magazines, nope. There is no reason you need those, unless you are planning serious violence.


Or maybe people like to target shoot without frequent intermissions for reloading. Do people need those? No. Is there a reason to ban them? No.

Sure, maybe that would be the idiot's would-be shooting-spree mag of choice, of course aftermarket mags like that fail more often than not and a well-practiced tactical reload would be the best bet. But mass murders and fear mongers don't think realistically. So grab up those hi-caps!
 
2012-04-08 05:18:10 AM

LordJiro: Giltric: People should start wagering or offering a year of TF to any takers if they are confident Obama would not influence/back/sign new gun control legislation.

Sure, Obama's EXPANDED gun rights, but it's just to lull us into a false sense of security.

We can carry in National Parks, woooo. victory and the end of all logical discussion, or something. (This is in italics and I cant find where the tag is to move it, it happens. )

"This administration has consistently favored the reinstitution of the assault weapons ban. It is something that we think was useful in the past with regard to the reduction that we've seen in crime, and certainly would have a positive impact on our relationship and the crime situation in Mexico."

- Eric Holder, testifying before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee

and

ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations (new window)

So yeah, nothing for gun owners to worry about. Let guns slide into Mexico and then blame the gun owners using a fabricated reason to crack down. Totally made up reasons for concern. Blinders are awesome.
 
2012-04-08 05:23:52 AM

Kittypie070: way south 2012-04-08 01:08:19 AM

I see the NRA as a necessary evil.

In a perfect world a constitutional right wouldn't be questioned. But events have shown that the 2nd amendment, which has been greatly neutered,

Oh really?

How?


Yeah, how?

We started out a Labrador. Now we have a saber-toothed Pit Bull with a third testicle .
 
2012-04-08 05:25:45 AM
Meh, I support both the NRA and the ACLU.

/both sides are.....good?
 
2012-04-08 05:27:19 AM

TheJoe03: Meh, I support both the NRA and the ACLU.

/both sides are.....good?


They both do good work. Mostly.
 
2012-04-08 05:28:12 AM
The fact will always remain that the 2nd amendment exists and banning guns is something that will never happen, ever. Making gun illegal would increase criminal activity, it would be worse for us than the current drug trade.
 
2012-04-08 05:37:31 AM

Smackledorfer: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: It wouldn't matter if the 2nd amendment specifically said that individual citizens can own and carry guns. The anti-gun crows would still argue "No, that's not what the founding fathers meant."

Nice troll. Really on top of the thread and article too.


If people who don't like guns want to own guns, that's fine with me. You don't see gun owners trying to force people who don't like guns to own guns. I think it's fair to expect people who don't like guns to not try to force gun owners to not own guns
 
2012-04-08 06:17:46 AM
Here's a little somethin' about the NRA. Oh yeah, cheap shots are the best shots. Seriously though, the NRA is like MADD, they have a worthwhile goal they are supposed to be promoting but it's been mutated and twisted into something pretty malignant. I get it, you feel the need to defend guns and gun ownership and everything within Kevin Bacon range of guns because you live in some state where there are some nasty restrictive laws. I live in Texas where the restrictive laws are just as retarded but only apply to non-lethal things, presumably because gun-makers don't like the competition. Here's the thing though; it's possible to admit the NRA has problems and still support the 2nd amendment.

If you cannot, you are probably a lifestyler who needs to get back on their meds.

i75.photobucket.com

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: If people who don't like guns want to own guns, that's fine with me. You don't see gun owners trying to force people who don't like guns to own guns. I think it's fair to expect people who don't like guns to not try to force gun owners to not own guns


Well apparently YOU don't but selective blindness is a requirement for injecting off-topic nonsense. There are a number of locations that require or attempt to require everyone buy a gun. Now before you say, "but those are localized small-time things so it doesn't count because blahblahblah..." so are the bans. Everything you NRA lifestylers get all het up about is either delusional ("Obama gonna take mah gunz!") or local (Minnesota or wherever making gun ownership practically illegal).

There are people on the left with serious idiocies regarding gun ownership, but if the NRA is letting people like Grover Norquist manipulate it they have some serious house-cleaning to do.
 
2012-04-08 06:33:06 AM
Did you know that seekret Mooslem Kenyan Usurper President is teaming up with North Korea and Iran to take away the guns of God luvin Real Muricans?

You can stop it today with a 12 easy installment donations $39.95.

Farkin Christ, Gun nuts are the biggest gullible dupes. You're just barely one step below the old ladies who cash their social security checks and immediately give it away to the TV evangelists.
 
2012-04-08 06:35:38 AM

Crosshair: Easy, the media is trying to distance themselves from Trayvon Martin as the case starts to resemble the Duke rape case more and more.


I don't recall a bunch of racist crackers accusing the Duke Lacrosse team of wrongdoing as they have attacking Trayvon Martin so your point isn't really one.
 
2012-04-08 06:44:19 AM

Blathering Idjut: Crosshair: Easy, the media is trying to distance themselves from Trayvon Martin as the case starts to resemble the Duke rape case more and more.

I don't recall a bunch of racist crackers accusing the Duke Lacrosse team of wrongdoing as they have attacking Trayvon Martin so your point isn't really one.


That's because you just don't understand. Suggesting anything besides the KNOWN FACTS* that Trayvon Martin was a drug-dealing career criminal who attacked and almost bludgeoned to death poor innocent George Zimmerman who is now in hiding from the OVERWHELMING RACIST ATTACKS against him and all white people (who are THE MOST DISCRIMINATED-AGAINST GROUP IN THE NATION) makes you a racist pig-dog scumbag libtarded libby liberal who should die. George Zimmerman is a HERO and a VICTIM and you're a racist for suggesting otherwise.


*which are lies
 
2012-04-08 06:58:36 AM

rynthetyn: The 2nd Amendment is greatly neutered? In what universe? Certainly not in a post-Heller one.


Kittypie070: Oh really?

How?


The second amendment states that a militia is important to our security.
A militia is an irregular military force, so the weapons in question are war materials.

Military weapons include things like Fully automatic rifles, grenades, rocket launchers, mortars, artillery, land mines and armed vehicles. Seeing as this is for military use these must be current date weapons. All purchased in quantity (and with their related ammunition types) enough that any Pentagon General could use your assembled group as a meaningful paramilitary force in his next war.

...Get started on that shopping list and tell me how far you get.

/First amendment: "The people" includes criminals, immigrants, terrorists, the mentally ill and any social outcast.
/Second amendment: "The people" only means rich white men with enough time and money to fill out paperwork and get authorization from the ATF.
 
2012-04-08 07:45:39 AM

Nadie_AZ: Oh good. I am glad someone else sees the similarities. Unions protect workers and are open to abuse, corruption and pushing for things outside of their 'area of expertise'. The NRA is doing this as well. Should we get rid of them all? No. Should we reform them and get them back to where they originally were needed? Absolutely.


If I wanted to leave the NRA, I'd just let my membership expire. If I wanted to leave a union job, I'd more than likely have to move to another state

pnkgtr: Would anyone be surprised if in 20 years the NRA was it's own political party and militia?


Go on....
 
2012-04-08 08:02:43 AM

way south: I see the NRA as a necessary evil.

In a perfect world a constitutional right wouldn't be questioned. But events have shown that the 2nd amendment, which has been greatly neutered, would cease to exist without some kind of advocacy.
In a perfect world our representatives wouldn't need to be lobbied with cash and promises of votes just to do the right thing. Unfortunately, lobbyist are essential to getting anything done in Washington.

Once you have a lobby large enough to swing the votes and money needed, its also going to end up beholding to many different interests.

/Pulling the wind out of the NRA's sails is as simple as repealing a few major gun laws.
/Reopen the Machine gun registry and get rid of sbr and suppressor limits, for starters.


Wouldn't make any difference. The NRA's ability to fire up and fear up the rubes has had no conection to actual reality for a long time.
Mark my words - come morning after the election in November, the gun stores will be mobbed. The narrative diverged from reality years ago.
 
2012-04-08 08:02:45 AM

o5iiawah: If I wanted to leave the NRA, I'd just let my membership expire. If I wanted to leave a union job, I'd more than likely have to move to another state


...But a union job wont keep, SENDING, YOU, EMAIL!
 
2012-04-08 08:28:44 AM

jso2897: The narrative diverged from reality years ago.


The feds have done little to change the reality.
CCW is a thing that many have fought to get in their individual states, not a gift from Obama.
Right to carry on federal land is nice, but it was long lobbied for and signed as part of a package deal.
Obama's position on the 2nd amendment is still muddled and the AG's involvement with "Fast and furious" wasn't helping. Gun owners have every right to be skeptical and recent events (wars, economic woes, troubles abroad) are doing nothing to sooth the mass panic behind gun sales.

If you want their narrative to change then throw up something that is a palpable victory for the NRA that it didn't have to pay for.

/From their perspective, its all about bringing in the membership.
 
2012-04-08 08:34:36 AM

o5iiawah: If I wanted to leave the NRA, I'd just let my membership expire. If I wanted to leave a union job, I'd more than likely have to move to another state


The union would promote the guy with 8 accidental shootings over the person with a clean safety record because the guy with bad trigger discipline has been there longer.
 
2012-04-08 08:34:46 AM
Support gun rights, would never donate to the NRA

/they have a history of refusing to support democrats that are largely in agreement with their goals, while funding Republicans that less friendly/the same
 
2012-04-08 08:36:19 AM

Giltric: AngryDragon: If the ACLU defended the 2nd amendment, the NRA wouldn't exist as a political entity.

Just saying.

They did represent 1 guy who wanted his firearms back but that probably fell under a 4th amendment defense instead of the 2nd.


NRA founded in 1871.

ACLU founded in 1920.

If the members of the NRA cared about all the civil rights of all people, the ACLU would not have needed to be created.

Also, where's the post of that crazy, racist NRA comic that was posted in the last Martin/gun thread?
 
2012-04-08 08:36:42 AM

AKTurkey: Support gun rights, would never donate to the NRA

/they have a history of refusing to support democrats that are largely in agreement with their goals, while funding Republicans that less friendly/the same


from the first page of the thread no less (new window)
 
2012-04-08 08:39:46 AM
I own a gun and am all for gun rights, yet I'm a liberal on almost every other policy question. And shiat like this is why I still hate the NRA. Fark you, stupid motherfarkers!
 
2012-04-08 08:40:28 AM

cavehobbit: CommieTaoist: So how do voter id and immigration laws relate to the second amendment?

Reading the article, it seems they are saying that people associated with the NRA have supported these issues so that means the NRA did?

I dunno, sounds like someone trying to make a case with slim evidence.


Well I'd be happy to forward them the NRA newsletters I still keep getting even though I haven't paid a nickel to them since 2001 or so. It's all heeeeelp us, Kar98, you're our only hope to defeat soshalism. Please send money!!

Let's see if they dig up more and see if they find also report what the NRA says are its reasons for supporting these things.

Last I understood, NRA was a gun-rights and shooting sports membership organization that has many non-conservatives as members. They have supported many Democrats in the past based strictly on their voting records.

If NRA were to become a truly partisan group, they would alienate a large section of their supporters, I do not see them being that dumb. But I have been wrong in the past about how dumb organizations can be, so whatever.

/Yes, i am a member. Wish I didn't have to be
//Also ACLU member. also wish I didn't have to be
 
2012-04-08 08:45:15 AM

cman: So?

The ACLU is the same way in pushing Liberal ideology under the guise of preserving civil rights


Which is why they are constantly defending Rush Limbaugh.
 
2012-04-08 08:49:00 AM

Peter von Nostrand: What has Obama done to restrict 2nd Amendment rights, well besides all the delusional things that some seem convinced he will do. Things like that certainly don't help the argument that the NRA is a non-partisan organization


Do you mean as president, or prior to it? Because he was on the board of the Joyce Foundation for 8 years, and helped to funnel millions of dollars to gun control organizations like the Violence Policy Center.

Now, it so happens that he hasn't done anything significant during his first term as president. There are a couple of good reasons for that:

1. He was largely busy pushing his big issue, health care reform, and spent much of his time and political capital on that, and

2. He knows that politically, any real push for gun control is a loser. I doesn't make sense to do it during the first term, because that could contribute to him not winning a second term.

Having said that, gun rights people also took him at his word: Part of his campaign was to re-enact the failed Assault Weapons Ban, and to make it permanent, along with "child-proofing" guns, and closing the non-existent "gun show loophole". That's not NRA propaganda, it comes strhttp://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda/aight from the urban policy page of Change.gov.

In effect, major gun control was part of his platform to get elected. It's not the NRA's fault that they took him at his word.
 
2012-04-08 08:53:24 AM

AngryDragon: If the ACLU defended the 2nd amendment, the NRA wouldn't exist as a political entity.
Just saying.


If the 2nd Amendment was ever actually under any real danger, the ACLU probably would defend it.

The NRA exists to scare gun owners, not protect them.
 
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