coco ebert: I think a lot of cyclists don't think of their vehicles as potentially as harmful as a car (i.e. with which a collision results in someone's death).

/awkward sentence is awkward

timujin: While the bicyclist was in the wrong, there's a reason your mom told you to always look before you cross the street. This could just as easily have been someone driving a car.

Two "this"'s

People on foot do not realize how much momentum someone on a bicycles has, and how difficult it can be to stop. I have had people step out right in front of me as I am going down a hill at over 30 mph, while looking right at me, and I was below the speed limit. No way I can stop from that speed in only a few feet.

I also see cyclists riding way too fast in areas where pedestrians are common, like multi-use paths, shopping areas, etc. And be all self-righteous about 'their rights' to ride their. It is one of many reasons I rarely ride anymore with the local club.

And never mind bicycle and car relations.

Basically, people are stupid. Trying to weigh stupidity to place blame is a useless exercise.

My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

"I want to ride my bicycle I want to ride my bike. I want to ride my bicycle I want to ride it where I like."

IT CANCELS OUT!!

cavehobbit:
People on foot do not realize how much momentum someone on a bicycles has, and how difficult it can be to stop. I have had people step out right in front of me as I am going down a hill at over 30 mph, while looking right at me, and I was below the speed limit. No way I can stop from that speed in only a few feet.

If only there was some system of lights to help vehicles and pedestrians share the road.

Ha, this guy is the absolute, typical cyclist. An absolute piece of garbage who doesn't think the rules apply to him ("derr i was going to fast to stop at the red light so I just ran it hurr durr derrrrr") and then he's actually proud of himself for killing a pedestrian.

All cyclists need to be stuffed into a rocket ship and launched into the sun. They are horrible, horrible people. The next law of the road they follow will be the first. Get them off the farking road. You want to ride your bike, Lance? Find a farking trail somewhere, and get the fark out of the way.

The rider goes on, "Apparently I hit a 71-year-old male pedestrian and he ended up in the ICU with pretty serious head injuries. I really hope he ends up OK."

Were you elsewhere at the time or do you ordinarily talk like a valley girl in addition to dressing like one?

Bicyclists are the most pathetic of all groups on the roads-- they run red lights, they dont obey speed limits, the swerve in and out of traffic and they are ALWAYS the first ones to cry about others doing the same crap they do. I really wish the cyclist would have been killed by a car and not him killing the poor guy he did. Maybe we can perform a late term, live abortion on him.

mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

There's a comparison about the volume of the complaint vs. the proximity to the wrong that could be made. But that would be racist...

Quantum Apostrophe: I'm a cyclist and I disobey rules of the road with the best of 'em, but you have to be able to adapt. You don't barrel towards a yellow light with traffic

Perhaps it's time for you to start.

Another douche that screams about having the same rights to the road as motor vehicles while ignoring the rules. Hope he spends the next 20 years in jail for manslaughter.

This thread will be my entertainment for the day

The bicycle is not the issue here dude.

mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

Which makes it a biatch for those of us who just want ride to work without getting farked with.

If I ever get a terminal disease, I'm going to strap my bike to the roof of a rented car, and plow through a Critical Mass ride.

road weenies are weenie's

There are a ton of cyclists in San Francisco and most of them are good people. Unfortunately, just like any group that big, there are plenty of assholes. I've almost been hit by a number of them as a pedestrian and had to slam on my brakes (while doing nothing wrong myself) as a driver when they fail to signal, blow through lights and intersections without looking, etc. That reminds me of a story that warms my heart every time. A friend was in the Mission and saw two cyclists collide in an intersection as they both turned into the street the other was coming from because neither slowed down or signaled their turn. Neither was apparently hurt and hopefully both learned a valuable lesson.

timujin: While the bicyclist was in the wrong, there's a reason your mom told you to always look before you cross the street. This could just as easily have been someone driving a car.

The guy died. How could it have been any worse if it was a car?

He killed a man, and no charges? Quick, get the panthers and the clan to san-fran, STAT!

mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

So much this. In Austin, cyclists generally ignore all rules of the road.

I found his profile pic.

If the pedestrian has the light, the driver/rider is in the wrong.

However, pedestrians should be aware that right of way does not prevent death or injury, it's simply a law. Words printed on paper, in other words. Your life and health remain in your hands when you step into the street.

It's happened before.

/Sad :(

louiedog: There are a ton of cyclists in San Francisco and most of them are good people. Unfortunately, just like any group that big, there are plenty of assholes. I've almost been hit by a number of them as a pedestrian and had to slam on my brakes (while doing nothing wrong myself) as a driver when they fail to signal, blow through lights and intersections without looking, etc. That reminds me of a story that warms my heart every time. A friend was in the Mission and saw two cyclists collide in an intersection as they both turned into the street the other was coming from because neither slowed down or signaled their turn. Neither was apparently hurt and hopefully both learned a valuable lesson.

Bummer.

Around 8 a.m. I was descending Divisadero Street southbound and about to cross Market Street. The light turned yellow as I was approaching the intersection, but I was already way too committed to stop. The light turned red as I was cruising through the middle of the intersection and then, almost instantly, the southern crosswalk on Market and Castro filled up with people coming from both directions. The intersection very long and the width of Castro Street at that point is very short, so, in a nutshell, blammo.

The quote/unquote 'scene of the crime' was that intersection right by the landmark Castro Theatre - it leads from a really busy MUNI station to that little plaza where The Naked Guy always hangs out. It was commuter hour and it was crowded as all getup. I couldn't see a line through the crowd and I couldn't stop, so I laid it down and just plowed through the crowded crosswalk in the least-populated place I could find.

I don't remember the next five minutes but when I came to, I was in a neck brace being loaded into an ambulance. I remember seeing a RIVER of blood on the asphalt, but it wasn't mine. Apparently I hit a 71-year-old male pedestrian and he ended up in the ICU with pretty serious head injuries. I really hope he ends up OK.

In closing, I want to dedicate this story to my late helmet. She died in heroic fashion today as my head slammed into the tarmac... The moral of this little story is: WYFH.

1) I don't think that's the moral of the story.
2) He ran a light so freakin red that the crosswalk was full of people from end to end by the time he went through. People don't "instantly" appear as he suggests.

What a complete and utter tool.

Bicyclists should stay off the roads, roads are only meant for cars, rabble rabble, etc.

QAss is a bicyclist and believes in life extension tech!?

He's stupider than I thought.

This happened at Market /Castro it's full people coming from both directions slow the fark down and pay attention asshole. I thought this was going to be about Randolph Ang (new window) another dickwad who killed an elderly pedestrian in San Francisco.

FunkOut: Bikes are not real vehicles and they don't belong in traffic. They need their own damn lane. I hate seeing some 40 year old spandex clad dude on a racing bike trying to make a left hand turn in busy traffic at a 6 lane intersection. You've got no engine, you have two 40 year old legs, what makes you think you can keep up, wtf?

Bikes are real vehicles. Learn that the roads aren't just for your 40 year old ass in an SUV munching on a hamburger while sending your wifes best friend pictures of your junk.

/have no sympathy for the idiot cyclist in the story
//or for you

This is why, when I find myself alone on a road with a cyclist, I just bumper them off the road and speed away. Just make sure to check twice that there aren't any other vehicles around to turn you in.

By the bikers own admission, the crosswalk was full of people meaning that at least a few seconds had passed since the light changed. Considering he admits that the light was yellow as he approached the intersection and knowing that he couldn't have been going much over 20 MPH, he had plenty of time to stop. Sounds more like he was being a mega-douche and thinking that he would be able to zip between people.

louiedog: Neither was apparently hurt and hopefully both learned a valuable lesson.

They didn't if they weren't hurt.

9beers: By the bikers own admission, the crosswalk was full of people meaning that at least a few seconds had passed since the light changed. Considering he admits that the light was yellow as he approached the intersection and knowing that he couldn't have been going much over 20 MPH, he had plenty of time to stop. Sounds more like he was being a mega-douche and thinking that he would be able to zip between people.

He was going 35.

2 comments here.

"The light turned yellow as I was approaching the intersection, but I was already way too committed to stop.

Here is your hint you are going to fast, moron.

The medical examiner has not publicly stated if Hui's death was a result of his injuries from the accident.

Is this not obvious?

I call BS on the cyclist's story. I live in SF and walk the city nearly ever day and the cyclists here NEVER stop for traffic lights, follow traffic laws, etc. Just this morning I watch 5 different dudes on bikes force their way through pedestrians at the same red light. They weren't even riding together.


Best thing I ever saw, this guy on a bike was zooming down Stockton and ran the light at speed directly into traffic and plowed into this blue blood teenage princess's brand new Mercedes SLK. Bike actually stuck to the car, rider went over the car without touching it and landed on his feet on the other side. The girl was crying her eyes out, the cyclist grabbed the bike and ran away before the cops could get there.

KanedaJD: This thread will be my entertainment for the day

That's a pretty poor Saturday. Hope it gets better for you.

cavehobbit: I have had people step out right in front of me as I am going down a hill at over 30 mph, while looking right at me, and I was below the speed limit. No way I can stop from that speed in only a few feet.

At least they looked. Purdue doesn't have a lot of bike paths on campus but they have a few thoroughfares that are painted up like roads. Dotted lines down the center. Yellow lines on the side. Big pictures of bikes every 30 feet painted on the ground Sort of seen on google. Everyone else on campus I accept the fact that I'm in the pedestrian world and ride cautiously, but I usually book it down these bike 'roads'. People will cell phones, people on their iPod just walk into the path. Normally I catch idiots ahead of time and plan on them but occasionally I'll brush a collision.


The second worst thing is people trying to react to me. I have my path planned. I treat everyone with Newton's second law. I know how fast everyone is moving their trajectories etc. (swear to God I have near Spice abilities on my bike) and 98% of the time they're in their little world and everything is fine. But occasionally someone will look up, see me and then panic.

I forgot to add his closing statement above in which he laments his broken helmet: "May she die knowing that because she committed the ultimate sacrifice, her rider can live on and ride on. Can I get an amen?"

Serpoltas: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x296]

all 3 are correct.

Here is my clause to that statement: The responsibility to avoid the accident falls on the person who will suffer the most from it. Crosswalk, red-light, whatever... if you don't look, and you die, being correct doesn't bring you back to life.

Yogimus: He killed a man, and no charges? Quick, get the panthers and the clan to san-fran, STAT!

The DA is filing charges They're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The guy's going to prison mostly for leaving the scene of an accident.

I would love to see a hardcore bicyclist get stuck behind a rickshaw.

Wonderduck: KanedaJD: This thread will be my entertainment for the day

That's a pretty poor Saturday. Hope it gets better for you.

It's tax season :-(

TFA didn't mention how he dedicated his blogpost to his HELMET that "died" in service to him that day ..... the "river of blood not his own" meant nothing to him apparently that a human might have died at his recklessness. He desrves jail for manslaughter.

LeroyBourne: I would love to see a hardcore bicyclist get stuck behind a rickshaw.

I'd like to see an army of rickshaw drivers clog up the street and prevent Critical Mass from happening. Do they still do that? I moved out of SF a few years ago. What a bunch of assholes they were.

I drive for work and walk and use the bus at other times. My experuence as both a driver and a pedestrian has taught me to hate bikers: on a daily basis I deal with them ignoring lights, blowing stop signs, racing down sidewalks, not yielding to pedesrtrians and weaving in and out of traffic. I cheer when one of those assholes gets run over.

serial_crusher: The light turned yellow as I was approaching the intersection, but I was already way too committed to stop. The light turned red as I was cruising through the middle of the intersection

Not sure about California laws, but in Texas he would have had the right of way. Here it's illegal to *enter* the intersection while the light is red. If it turns red while you're in there, you're OK. Then it's also illegal for cross traffic to enter the intersection before it's clear.

Well the pedestrian "walk" lights are never set to go white against the light. And pedestrians are not launched via catapult into the intersection when it DOES change. Come on, you're going 35 mph and the intersection "filled" suddenly? It would take 2 seconds to "fill" even in a rush. At 35mph you're going 51 fps. That light didn't turn when you were it in, you were 102 ft away when it changed.

It's possible all these pedestrians started walking prior to the light change, but... somewhat unlikely. There's a critical context here in that YOU'RE CLEARLY A GIANT DOUCHEBAG and nobody trusts you to reliably describe anything.

The moral of the story: if you're going to kill someone, be sure to wear a good helmet because, hey! Can I get an Amen?

writer should be crucified for using the term 'blog-o-sphere'

I could read no further

I'm so sick of the problems these spandex wrapped posers cause in Atlanta traffic. You've got the money for all the equipment you play dress up with, but you can't afford to take your bike somewhere safe to ride? Enjoy huffing all those car fumes you effite glamour boys.

If you cycling jerks would assert your right to the lane instead of hugging the curb, there would be a lot less confusion, ie Atlanta motorists would be forced to simply run you over.

Did all you hyperventilating bike-haters actually read the article?

One guy was a douche, and the rest of the bicycling community shunned him for it. They didn't encourage him, they didn't celebrate his behavior. That's the entire point.

exvaxman: mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

AMEN!
I have had several incidents with cyclists in my area. Always their fault - usually blowing stop signs or traffic lights. The last one would have been iffy if I had not had a dash cam in the car. Blind intersection due to a bad curve that did have a traffic light on it. I got a green, saw nothing and pulled into the intersection. I was plowed into by a cyclist who was going at a high rate of speed and flipped over my car - he spent two months in the hospital due to his back injuries because of how he hit the street after flying several feet. The dash cam not only showed that I pulled into the intersection on a green light, but had delayed enough so that there was no question of someone actually in the intersection. Asshat tried sueing through several lawyers, he couldn't find anyone to take the case. He did have to pay for damages to my car not covered by insurance, but he keeps trying to sue but as soon as the lawyers read the accident report and hear that there is video evidence, they tell him "no way".

CSB, link?

A bicycle is a vehicle. Not only do you not have the right of way that a pedestrain has, you are to follow the rules of the road. If you get run over for your stupidity, you deserve it.

Bicycles=coonts about 70% of the time

/.02

Motorists never blow through stop signs! (new window)

crotchgrabber: I killed a pigeon with my bike on the way to work the other day. Say a prayer for my spokes, it took me ten minutes to retrue my wheel. Amen.

I threw up in the street once, Bush Street near Steiner. A pigeon walked over and started eating some of the solid matter.

cmb53208: I drive for work and walk and use the bus at other times. My experuence as both a driver and a pedestrian has taught me to hate bikers: on a daily basis I deal with them ignoring lights, blowing stop signs, racing down sidewalks, not yielding to pedesrtrians and weaving in and out of traffic. I cheer when one of those assholes gets run over.



Succession Of Terrible Events Fails To Befall 33-Year-Old Riding Longboard To Digital Media Job (new window): "Seeing something like this, it makes you question the existence of God," said passerby David Erickson, still dumbfounded by the fact that Reston had remained upright during his entire longboard commute rather than ending up a crumpled, bloody pile on the sidewalk, with the iPad he no doubt had somewhere on his person smashed to pieces beside him. "I mean, I don't expect something crazy to happen, like a big chunk of building coming loose and flattening him from above, but nothing? Nothing at all?"

As Lance Armstrong might say, "It's not about the bike."

You could substitute ANY wheeled vehicle from a steamroller to a skateboard and the same thing would have happened with this particular dooshbag in control.

He's essentially saying, "I ignored the amber caution light and entered the intersection too fast to be in control."

He acts like having the light turn red after he entered the intersection on yellow was something unexpected.

Is this the thread where sociopaths openly wish for people who occasionally annoy them to die?

Repo Man: Is this the thread where sociopaths openly wish for people who occasionally annoy them to die?

THAT makes you a sociopath? I thought it was a normal thing.

louiedog: LeroyBourne: I would love to see a hardcore bicyclist get stuck behind a rickshaw.

I'd like to see an army of rickshaw drivers clog up the street and prevent Critical Mass from happening. Do they still do that? I moved out of SF a few years ago. What a bunch of assholes they were.

I have no idea, I'd say rickshaws are probably confined to china town. Up here in MN, CM is huge, and we have no rickshaws to stop them.

Yogimus:

THAT makes you a sociopath? I thought it was a normal thing.

What doesn't make you a sociopath is a systemic disregard for the safety of yourself and others.

jim32rr: I submitted the story of this mildly retarded suicyclist with a better headline.

HOMICYCLIST FTFY. I've always called them kamikaze cyclists to cover their both their suicidal and homicidal death wishes.

I have to deal with San Francisco bike douche's on a regular basis. This ass-hat is lying when he says he was too committed to stop for the yellow light and it turned red when he was halfway through the intersection. The lights are not that farking fast. SF bicyclists have a complete disregard for traffic laws. They don't care if the light is green, yellow, or red or who has the right of way; they fly right through completely oblivious to the safety of all.

And what happens when a bike douche gets killed running a red light? All the bike douches get together to hold a bike douche protest. Which to me seems like a damn good time to go for a fast drive in a big ass humvie.

FunkOut: They say bicycles are vehicles but you never see them traveling at 70 mph on a highway with all the other vehicles.

Speed is not what defines a vehicle.

While the cyclist was in the wrong for A) not stopping once there were pedestrians in his path and B) not stopping and waiting for police once he hit the guy, I do want to point out that pedestrians in most major cities (NYC being an exception) have taking to crossing the road whenever and wherever they feel like. I've had people step out in front of me in the middle of the block more times than I can count. And there are plenty of intersections downtown which become completely gridlocked at lunch- and rush-hour because the pedestrians keep crossing the street after the light changes against them.

/Personally, I hope they track the cyclist down and throw the book at him
/urban cyclist

I ride when I can....and really enjoy it, but I try to never forget that I can be hurt or killed by anything bigger than me.....and not to let myself get into a situation where I can hurt somebody else. (that's why I stick mostly to MUP's and roads with wide shoulders).

Putting a bell on my bike helped immensely with letting pedestrians know that I'm nearby. Putting lights on my bike helped me deal with ninja walkers (no reflective gear), and I watch out for the dog walkers and their unleashed or 25-foot retractable leashes stretched across the path.

Still, I'm invisible to cars, even when I've got the green light, they've got a red. They'll just barrel right through the MUP to make their right turn without so much as a glance. That's why I got this:



115 dB of Coast-Guard Approved, shiat your pants, throw your cell phone safety at the touch of a button.

LeroyBourne: louiedog: LeroyBourne: I would love to see a hardcore bicyclist get stuck behind a rickshaw.

I'd like to see an army of rickshaw drivers clog up the street and prevent Critical Mass from happening. Do they still do that? I moved out of SF a few years ago. What a bunch of assholes they were.

I have no idea, I'd say rickshaws are probably confined to china town. Up here in MN, CM is huge, and we have no rickshaws to stop them.

Actually rickshaws are more of a Fisherman's Wharf and Ferry Building kind of thing. And there are only a few of them. However, a very large family (not in number) from where I grew up said they all piled into one rickshaw and were driven around for awhile so I imagine the drivers are quite strong and fearless. I think they could do it.

crotchgrabber: Kevin72: crotchgrabber: I killed a pigeon with my bike on the way to work the other day. Say a prayer for my spokes, it took me ten minutes to retrue my wheel. Amen.

I threw up in the street once, Bush Street near Steiner. A pigeon walked over and started eating some of the solid matter.

I'll say a prayer for your undigested dinner and booze.

It was lunch. About 3:30 afternoon. Actually alcohol was not involved.

Asa Phelps: xmasbaby: As Lance Armstrong might say, "It's not about the bike."

You could substitute ANY wheeled vehicle from a steamroller to a skateboard and the same thing would have happened with this particular dooshbag in control.

He's essentially saying, "I ignored the amber caution light and entered the intersection too fast to be in control."

He acts like having the light turn red after he entered the intersection on yellow was something unexpected.

Some cities have shortened their yellow light intervals substantially. Generally the same cities that have invested in red light cameras.

Oh, that makes it OK then.

Birnone: If the pedestrian has the light, the driver/rider is in the wrong.

However, pedestrians should be aware that right of way does not prevent death or injury, it's simply a law. Words printed on paper, in other words. Your life and health remain in your hands when you step into the street.

I actually had that conversation with my wife a few years back, when some parking lot asshole almost nailed us. Whe swid "I should have let him hit me. That would have showed him."

I told her "when there's an unarmed fight of person vs car, car usually wins. You're making ke feel better about upping your life insurance, though."

My job involves quite a bit of driving. I'm very occasionally inconvenienced a tiny bit by people on bicycles. Fellow motorists regularly do things that actually threaten my life.

t3knomanser: I'm the sort of cyclist drivers hate. I use a lane, I signal my turns, I stop for traffic signals, and basically pretend that I'm in a car. Freaks the ever-loving hell out of them.

I've gotten yelled at more times than I can count for that sort of behavior.

/most drivers/cyclists/pedestrians don't realize how shiatty they are at driving/biking/walking until you point it out to them.

That pedestrian in the intersection was threatening his life by being there... he had the right to defend himself with kinetic force!

As a cyclist, I believe disregard for traffic safety and laws reprehensible. I stop at all stop signs and at red lights; if I am unable to cause a light to change in my favor due to lack of a crosswalk button I will dismount and carefully walk through the intersection as a pedestrian. Upon one occasion while driving, I nearly struck a cyclist who passed my vehicle on the right and ran through a stop sign as I was attempting to make a right turn; to this day, I regret reflexively stopping my vehicle rather than striking her as she deserved.

When cycling, I am always aware of being in possession of a potentially deadly weapon. I am also aware of having a bicycle.

Anybody able to show a Google map of the intersection?

A bicyclist started to run a red light in front of me yesterday but I was too close and could've killed him so he stopped, he looked sort of pissed about it too, like I should've slowed down and let him go. Of course I always assume those jerks are going to run the light anyway so I'm ready to stop and holler cuss words at them if they do.

I could tell he was a jerk anyway if he hadn't have done that because he was wearing the funny bicyclist clothes and most of those guys are jerks. I ride myself some for exercise and just because I like it but I wear regular clothes and if I'm on a country road and look back and see 500 cars behind me I'll pull over and ride in the grass if I can, if I can't I'll pull over and stop. Most riders where I live are regular clothes riders and are okay, it's when you get close to Chapel Hill and RDU area the funny clothes wearing riders are out like bees almost daring you to hit them.

When I'm walking around the University close to it in town there are a lot of regular clothes wearing riders up on the sidewalks and I've almost been hit several times by them but they are just stupid kids so I don't get to upset by them.

kokomo61:

Still, I'm invisible to cars, even when I've got the green light, they've got a red. They'll just barrel right through the MUP to make their right turn without so much as a glance. That's why I got this:

[www.pricepoint.com image 300x300]

115 dB of Coast-Guard Approved, shiat your pants, throw your cell phone safety at the touch of a button.

Where may I purchase such an item, and how easily does it mount to a bicycle?

It's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, even if it turns red while you're within the intersection. Also, if you cross the street without looking you might die.

Phoenix_M: Yogimus: He killed a man, and no charges? Quick, get the panthers and the clan to san-fran, STAT!

The DA is filing charges They're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The guy's going to prison mostly for leaving the scene of an accident.

Good.

Asa Phelps: Some cities have shortened their yellow light intervals substantially. Generally the same cities that have invested in red light cameras.

My rule is: if you don't know how long the yellow is, you stop before entering the intersection. On my commute, there are short yellow lights and long ones. I stop for the short ones and run though the long ones, and it's rare the light goes red while I'm in the intersection.

If I'm biking off my normal route, I stop for the yellow as I have no idea when it will change.

DBacich: It's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, even if it turns red while you're within the intersection. Also, if you cross the street without looking you might die.

The legality of such action varies from state to state. Kentucky law prohibits being in an intersection when the light is red regardless of the light condition at the time of entering the intersection.

IXI Jim IXI: Birnone: If the pedestrian has the light, the driver/rider is in the wrong.

However, pedestrians should be aware that right of way does not prevent death or injury, it's simply a law. Words printed on paper, in other words. Your life and health remain in your hands when you step into the street.

I actually had that conversation with my wife a few years back, when some parking lot asshole almost nailed us. Whe swid "I should have let him hit me. That would have showed him."

I told her "when there's an unarmed fight of person vs car, car usually wins. You're making ke feel better about upping your life insurance, though."



Pedestrians just need to "man up" and take some responsibility for their own safety. If they all carried baseball bats, cyclists would ride MUCH more politely.

DBacich: It's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, even if it turns red while you're within the intersection. Also, if you cross the street without looking you might die.

That's true.

"This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of using due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard." (new window)

DBacich: It's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, even if it turns red while you're within the intersection.

Bullshiat it is. If you're still in the intersection when the light turns red, you've violated the law. Show me the law in any state that says you can still be in the intersection when the light turns red and not be in violation.

darkscout: But occasionally someone will look up, see me and then panic.

Then perhaps you should plan on that too.

Dimensio: DBacich: It's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, even if it turns red while you're within the intersection. Also, if you cross the street without looking you might die.

The legality of such action varies from state to state. Kentucky law prohibits being in an intersection when the light is red regardless of the light condition at the time of entering the intersection.

Downtown Los Angeles has the same law, the gridlock law. Too often people would enter the intersection while it was yellow, and still be there when it turned red, preventing cross traffic from moving. The very first ticket given out when they changed the law was to a bus driver.

I'm a bicyclist. I'm a certified instructor. I speak with other professionals on a daily basis. No one thinks the bicyclist in this incident is innocent in any way, shape, or form. He knew there was a signalized intersection. He knew he was going downhill. He knew he should have slowed. He chose not to. He was grossly negligent. He deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Many bicyclists argue (in this thread and elsewhere) that bikes shouldn't be held to the same standards as motor vehicles because of the lower mass/density or a bike and rider and thus lessened likelihood of death upon collision with a pedestrian/other bicyclist. Of course, the fallacy or flaw in that assertion is that we only care about death. In reality, we should strive to avoid *all* injury and the way we do so is by being visible/audible (to others), predictable (by others), and adaptable (to sudden changes of situation). If you're not striving to be those three things, then you're putting yourself and others in danger.

How to be visible:
(1) If you find it utterly necessary to ride on the sidewalk, do so at a *very* slow pace. Pedestrians should not be able to be surprised by you.
(2) Wear bright colors at all times.
(3) Have the state mandated lights and reflectivity on your bike... and then go above and beyond.
(4) If a lane is too small for you to share with a car, occupy the center of the lane.

How to be predictable:
(1) Drive your bicycle like you would drive a car.
(2) Follow the rules of the road.
(3) Stop at stop signs and red lights.
(4) Signal before merging.
(5) Use the rightmost lane that serves your destination.
(6) When passing (which you ALWAYS do on the left) or approaching people or cars, use an audible warning (bell, horn, voice) and announce your intentions.
(7) Yield the appropriate right of way.

How to be adaptable:
(1) Practice the evasion maneuvers taught by the League of American Bicyclists. (Rock dodge to avoid small hazards, Quick Stop to avoid sudden stationary obstructions, Quick Turn to avoid a t-bone after being cut off.)

Final words:
(1) Brakes are important. While a minimalist fixie is extremely fashionable, having brakes on board can save skin. You don't have to use them all the time, but you will be happy you had them on when an emergency occurs.
(2) If you're an advocate like me and want people to take bicycling seriously, stop looking like an extremist. Middle-Aged Men In Lycra, Occupiers, tall-bikers, etc. -- you all make bicycling look like it's only for people on some sort of fringe. When representing bicycles, dress in plain clothes. On a hybrid. With racks, a basket, and/or panniers.
(3) When on the road, don't be a jerk. Get in line with other vehicles. Don't jump in and out of open parking areas. Don't ride on the sidewalk or in crosswalks (if you can avoid it).
(4) If you're at a stop light and want to go straight, but a car behind you wants to turn right, move to the left side of the lane and let the car do so. Wave the car in, smile, and give a thumbs up.
(5) For gods' sake(s), downshift before you come to a stop. Nothing pisses off motorists more than "having to wait behind a slow bike". When you're at a stop sign/light, you should be at your best acceleration gear so you can get off the line when you get the go-ahead.

BummerDuck:
The medical examiner has not publicly stated if Hui's death was a result of his injuries from the accident.

Is this not obvious?

No, it's just a very strong possibility. Suppose Hui had a medical condition whose cause of death was unrelated to the crash. Shiat sometimes happens.

namatad: Dimensio: As a cyclist, I believe disregard for traffic safety and laws reprehensible. I stop at all stop signs and at red lights; if I am unable to cause a light to change in my favor due to lack of a crosswalk button I will dismount and carefully walk through the intersection as a pedestrian. Upon one occasion while driving, I nearly struck a cyclist who passed my vehicle on the right and ran through a stop sign as I was attempting to make a right turn; to this day, I regret reflexively stopping my vehicle rather than striking her as she deserved.

When cycling, I am always aware of being in possession of a potentially deadly weapon. I am also aware of having a bicycle.

I almost killed a cyclist while opening a cab door, while at the curb. they were riding between the cab and curb. they yelled at me???? If only I had opened the door 2 seconds earlier. my god I was in a stabby mood that day

People who know they are at fault tend to yell the loudest. he knew he pucked up.

RareChimer: (1) Brakes are important. While a minimalist fixie is extremely fashionable, having brakes on board can save skin. You don't have to use them all the time, but you will be happy you had them on when an emergency occurs.

They're also legally-mandated, though I've never seen anyone here ticketed for not having brakes (they should be).

RareChimer: (2) If you're an advocate like me and want people to take bicycling seriously, stop looking like an extremist. Middle-Aged Men In Lycra, Occupiers, tall-bikers, etc. -- you all make bicycling look like it's only for people on some sort of fringe. When representing bicycles, dress in plain clothes. On a hybrid. With racks, a basket, and/or panniers.

I recently rode to a business event in a dress shirt and sports jacket (in my line of work, it usually helps to look like a schlub, and I dress accordingly) and it may have been purely psychological on my part, but I felt like drivers were more differential than usual.

Not that I recommend riding in dress clothes, as it's a bit of a PITA.

Serpoltas: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x296]

I've seen this before and I disagree with it kind of. The fact is that we ALL own the roads (by virtue of being citizens or guests of the country that built them) and as with all all things over which we have ownership, we also hold liability and responsibility.

Instead of declaring that one person/group or another doesn't "own the road" in its entirety, try realizing that you own a portion of the road and should act appropriately on it-- for your safety and the safety of others.

Yogimus: I almost killed a cyclist while opening a cab door, while at the curb. they were riding between the cab and curb. they yelled at me???? If only I had opened the door 2 seconds earlier. my god I was in a stabby mood that day

People who know they are at fault tend to yell the loudest. he knew he pucked up.

Incorrect. Opening a door into traffic without looking is a violation most places. I actually got ticketed for it once.

I'm a cyclist when I can be, but I have no stomach for the self righteous type. A few months back, driving my work truck, I came to a four way stop, and unlike most motorists, actually came to a full stop. I was going to turn left, and had my left signal on. There was a guy on a bicycle coming towards me (I was westbound, but turning left, he was eastbound). My guess what that he wasn't going to stop, but he was still a little way from the stop sign. I had come to a full stop, and I had the right of way. So I turned. What a surprise, he hadn't planned on stopping, and he had apparently expected me to yield the right of way to him for reasons that were only clear to him. He began to try to brake in a panic; since I was expecting him to do the dumbshiat thing, I was ready to brake, and stopped and let him across. I'm not going to injure someone just to prove a point. Riding a bicycle means you have the same rights, not elevated ones.

Because of people like him, no one expects me to stop for stop signs when I'm riding my bicycle. Regularly, when I'm approaching a four way stop, a vehicle that's already stopped will stay stopped because they are expecting me to blow through it. Then I come to a stop, and they still sit there, apparently confused, until I wave them through (it's your turn, go for fark's sake). It's a sorry situation. I'd like to see the local cops writing $100.00 tickets for this all day long. Doesn't seem to be a priority in these cash strapped times.

Dwight_Yeast: Yogimus: I almost killed a cyclist while opening a cab door, while at the curb. they were riding between the cab and curb. they yelled at me???? If only I had opened the door 2 seconds earlier. my god I was in a stabby mood that day

People who know they are at fault tend to yell the loudest. he knew he pucked up.

Incorrect. Opening a door into traffic without looking is a violation most places. I actually got ticketed for it once.

He opened the door on the CURB SIDE.

Dwight_Yeast: Yogimus: I almost killed a cyclist while opening a cab door, while at the curb. they were riding between the cab and curb. they yelled at me???? If only I had opened the door 2 seconds earlier. my god I was in a stabby mood that day

People who know they are at fault tend to yell the loudest. he knew he pucked up.

Incorrect. Opening a door into traffic without looking is a violation most places. I actually got ticketed for it once.

Door opened curbside.

How is this farker not in jail??! Is this really how low San Francisco has fallen?

Yogimus: 9beers: By the bikers own admission, the crosswalk was full of people meaning that at least a few seconds had passed since the light changed. Considering he admits that the light was yellow as he approached the intersection and knowing that he couldn't have been going much over 20 MPH, he had plenty of time to stop. Sounds more like he was being a mega-douche and thinking that he would be able to zip between people.

He was going 35.

And the speed limit on San Francisco streets is 25.

Speeding, reckless driving, vehicular manslaughter...looks like he can say bye-bye to bike riding for a few years.

Yogimus: Door opened curbside.

Unless the cab was completely pulled over to the curb and the cyclist was attempting to ride between the cab and the curb (which would have been impossible) it's still against the law, at least where I live. Here, the phrasing "opening a door into a traffic lane". Doesn't matter which side of teh car the door is on,

Phoenix_M: Yogimus: He killed a man, and no charges? Quick, get the panthers and the clan to san-fran, STAT!

The DA is filing charges They're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The guy's going to prison mostly for leaving the scene of an accident.

From the cyclist's post - "I don't remember the next five minutes but when I came to, I was in a neck brace being loaded into an ambulance."

I don't think he can be charged with "leaving the scene" if he left on a stretcher in an ambulance.

FunkOut:
They say bicycles are vehicles but you never see them traveling at 70 mph on a highway with all the other vehicles.

Bikes are not real vehicles and they don't belong in traffic. They need their own damn lane. I hate seeing some 40 year old spandex clad dude on a racing bike trying to make a left hand turn in busy traffic at a 6 lane intersection. You've got no engine, you have two 40 year old legs, what makes you think you can keep up, wtf?

California calls bicycles "devices", but also states that riders of bicycles have all the rights and responsibilities of drivers of (motor) vehicles. That means bicycles can even go on the freeways here (unless otherwise signed). That's why almost every single on-ramp in California has those signs that say "No Bikes, Pedestrians, Mopeds".

There are some areas without those signs, though. Camp Pendleton, for example, has a bike path to allow travel to San Diego, but it's also the only way to get from Orange County to San Diego by bike. So, when the base shuts down for weapons testing (3 or so times per year), Interstate 5 is appropriately signed by CALTrans to give directions to bikes that want to ride on a freeway.

I respect your point, and cede the discussion due to
1. I really dont care
2. Lack further information
3. Inconsiderate Door poppers piss me off

mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

THIS!

common sense is an oxymoron: vehicular manslaughter.

Completely unlikely he'd be charged with that. Hell, you can run a pedestrian or cyclist down with your car and not be charged with that in most cases.

/there have been a large number of cyclists killed by cars here in the last couple years
//no one's been charged with anything more than "leaving the scene" and that's in the rare cases they bother to track down the driver

Quantum Apostrophe: I'll try to find that 115db horn.

Usually about 25 bucks. Horn mounts to the handlebar (may need to use zip ties if you have thick road handlebars), and the bottle can go in a water bottle cage. I mount mine behind my seat. Just pump it up to 90 psi before you leave, and it's good for a several days of use.

It's used mainly when a car is getting ready to pull right into my path. They'll look right at me, and just see nothing.

There are plenty of reasons almost nobody likes bicyclists.

This is just one more.

Never have so hated a group of people embraced the world's hatred of them so smugly.

Adding, of course to just more hate.

Last time I posted a feel-good video of a car intentionally plowing through a critical mass rally I got sent to the corner, but they're out there.

Enjoy.

JRoo: mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.


The only time I ever got hit by a car on my bicycle was when I was following street rules and the car driver didn't get so much as a ticket.

Same here: woman blew a stop sign (which I'd stopped for) and caught my knee between my bike frame and her pickup's bumper. She took off, and even though I had a partial plate, the police couldn't be bothered to track her down.

My primary (only) means of transportation is my bicycle. I don't own a car and I ride to work each day.

After seeing how cyclists behave on busy roads I've given it a lot of thought and condensed it down to three possibilities....

1.) Declare bicycles toys for children and ban them. Treat them like rollerblades or power-wheels. Don't let people ride them in the middle of traffic.
2.) An extension of #1 - only allow bicycles on dedicated cycle paths; preferably far from the real road.
3.) Treat them like cars and require a license. Require people to know the rules of the road, pass a test, and train LEO to enforce traffic violations for cyclists.

I don't care which we pick - but I'm really sick of this grey area we've got for bicycles. (Most) cyclists demand all of the rights of a car....when they want them.....but are adamantly against the responsibilities a vehicle driver has. When they want to ride in traffic on busy roads - they are a car. When it's time to stop at a red light - they're just a bicycle, so as soon as they think they can; they'll go. When it's time to merge with traffic, they want cars to yield to them like they would other cars; but when it's time to sit in a traffic jam, the cyclist will jump the curb onto the sidewalk because, hey, it's not a car - why not?

I'm just asking for some consistency.

Dwight_Yeast: RareChimer: (1) Brakes are important. While a minimalist fixie is extremely fashionable, having brakes on board can save skin. You don't have to use them all the time, but you will be happy you had them on when an emergency occurs.

They're also legally-mandated, though I've never seen anyone here ticketed for not having brakes (they should be).

California is yet to test that part of the CVC in court. The CA. Vehicle Code says that your bike must equipped with brakes that allow you to skid on level, dry concrete. The law was also written back when coaster brakes were the norm and the tire was your main form of friction. It is argued that since the law says nothing about *mechanical brakes*, a fixie rider's legs could be the brakes and any experienced fixie rider should be able to skid his/her rear wheel.

Side-note: Well-maintained and appropriately used mechanical brakes don't skid. Skidding is a loss of stopping power. Science has progressed, but as normal, the law has not.

Repo Man: Is this the thread where sociopaths openly wish for people who occasionally annoy them to die?

Perhaps if bikers wouldn't run lights, blow stop signs, or ride down sidewalks (when there's often a bike lane in the street) people wouldn't think ill of them.

Want people to be nice to you? Stop being douchebags.

mark12A: Mmmmm, another bicycle hate thread. Good, good, your tears are like Gatorade to me...

/starts regular bike commuting to work this week
//ignores ALL signs/signals IF the way is clear
///rides the wrong way
\\\assumes all cars ARE out to get me, rides accordingly
\\this is my 12th season of doing this in the dirty mean streets of Philly
\ain't dead yet, ain't hit anyone yet

I knew a lot of guys in college who would get drunk and then drive home. They often said the same thing...

'Relax man, I've done this plenty of times; and I never hit anything!'

If he was going too fast to stop for the yellow he was going too fast period.

I do wonder if the pedestrians started crossing while both lights were red. If so they share the blame, if not then this guy really blew it and would've been entering the intersection on the red at that speed (at least with the full-red times they have here which are probably similar).

In any case this is why I try to do a right-left before crossing an intersection regardless, whether i'm in a car or skating or on foot. Yeah if you have the light and get smoked you'll be in the right, but you'll still be injured or dead.

It happened at Castro and Market according to an article I found. That intersection is huge, no way this douche didn't have time to stop.

I'm not sure how to post a picture or link of the spot so you'll have to look for yourself.

It's always nice to see the effects of california's self-absorbed narcisstic asshole culture come to fruition. Both parties involved are dipshiats.

OgreMagi: Dimensio: DBacich: It's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, even if it turns red while you're within the intersection. Also, if you cross the street without looking you might die.

The legality of such action varies from state to state. Kentucky law prohibits being in an intersection when the light is red regardless of the light condition at the time of entering the intersection.

Downtown Los Angeles has the same law, the gridlock law. Too often people would enter the intersection while it was yellow, and still be there when it turned red, preventing cross traffic from moving. The very first ticket given out when they changed the law was to a bus driver.

If you "break the plane of the intersection" before the light turns red, then you're okay as long as you have room to clear the intersection after crossing (at least in CA--and it's the idiots who get stuck in the intersection because of the next red light who cause gridlock).

RareChimer: California is yet to test that part of the CVC in court. The CA. Vehicle Code says that your bike must equipped with brakes that allow you to skid on level, dry concrete. The law was also written back when coaster brakes were the norm and the tire was your main form of friction. It is argued that since the law says nothing about *mechanical brakes*, a fixie rider's legs could be the brakes and any experienced fixie rider should be able to skid his/her rear wheel.

Yeah, sorry, that should have been "brakes are legally-mandated most places, but laws vary". Here in PA, you're required to have one brake on your bike, but I can't remember if there's a requirement for its stopping power.

(I did something dumb recently on my bike and had to slam on the brakes. The bike stopped and threw me sideways in less than 10 feet from 15 mph. Skinned my knee, but the car I almost hit didn't even have to slow. I like my brakes, a lot.)

louiedog: There are a ton of cyclists in San Francisco and most of them are good people. Unfortunately, just like any group that big, there are plenty of assholes. I've almost been hit by a number of them as a pedestrian and had to slam on my brakes (while doing nothing wrong myself) as a driver when they fail to signal, blow through lights and intersections without looking, etc. That reminds me of a story that warms my heart every time. A friend was in the Mission and saw two cyclists collide in an intersection as they both turned into the street the other was coming from because neither slowed down or signaled their turn. Neither was apparently hurt and hopefully both learned a valuable lesson.

Ah.. Mission Comedy. I was hauling some stuff down Valencia one afternoon and saw a person unicycling down the sidewalk carrying a perfectly good bicycle on her shoulder. Half a block later all three were tangled up on the ground. I couldn't stop laughing.

In terms of things that are awful:

Hitler > 9/11 > Cyclists > Pearl Harbor > [Everything else]

mark12A: ///rides the wrong way

Oh, that's right! you're that asshole!

You're part of the problem. When you ride the wrong way, you're not only breaking the law and putting yourself in danger, you're also putting other cyclists in danger.

/When I'm coming towards you on a one-way street with a car behind me, I'm standing my ground, as I've got the law on my side. Which means you will have two choices: 1) run head-on into me, or run into the car.
//asshole

Phoenix_M: Yogimus: He killed a man, and no charges? Quick, get the panthers and the clan to san-fran, STAT!

The DA is filing charges They're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The guy's going to prison mostly for leaving the scene of an accident.

Leaving the scene? According to the bicyclists account of it he was knocked out and woke up in a neck brace. Where did you hear he left the scene?

Dwight_Yeast: mark12A: ///rides the wrong way

Oh, that's right! you're that asshole!

You're part of the problem. When you ride the wrong way, you're not only breaking the law and putting yourself in danger, you're also putting other cyclists in danger.

/When I'm coming towards you on a one-way street with a car behind me, I'm standing my ground, as I've got the law on my side. Which means you will have two choices: 1) run head-on into me, or run into the car.
//asshole

Nice catch.

serial_crusher: 9beers: It happened at Castro and Market according to an article I found. That intersection is huge, no way this douche didn't have time to stop.

I'm not sure how to post a picture or link of the spot so you'll have to look for yourself.

I think you're interpreting the intersection's hugeness the wrong way. Being a huge intersection does not give him more time to stop (in the middle of the intersection). It makes it harder for him to get through the intersection in time for the yellow light to turn red.

/ I wonder if this is one of those areas where they turned down the yellow light time in order to make more revenue from the red light cameras. That would be a pretty sweet lawsuit about to happen.

sure the family of the dead guy sees it that way.

FunkOut: gingerjet: FunkOut: Bikes are not real vehicles and they don't belong in traffic. They need their own damn lane. I hate seeing some 40 year old spandex clad dude on a racing bike trying to make a left hand turn in busy traffic at a 6 lane intersection. You've got no engine, you have two 40 year old legs, what makes you think you can keep up, wtf?

Bikes are real vehicles. Learn that the roads aren't just for your 40 year old ass in an SUV munching on a hamburger while sending your wifes best friend pictures of your junk.

/have no sympathy for the idiot cyclist in the story
//or for you

You're kind of an idiot. I'm a 33 year old woman who walks everywhere that can be arrived at within 20 minutes, I conveniently take public transit from almost right next to my house to everywhere I need to go, and I don't eat hamburgers. Your kneejerk reaction was completely stupid.

Last city I lived in I used a bike to go grocery shopping and I used the bike lanes and city bike paths the entire time. I did not run over people on sidewalks, I did not pretend to be a car and ride in the middle of the damn road. Why? Because I don't wants to hurt someone and I don't want to die in a horrific fashion with bits of bicycle embedded in my tender juicy flesh.

Please post pics of said flesh.

Dwight_Yeast: common sense is an oxymoron: vehicular manslaughter.

Completely unlikely he'd be charged with that. Hell, you can run a pedestrian or cyclist down with your car and not be charged with that in most cases.

/there have been a large number of cyclists killed by cars here in the last couple years
//no one's been charged with anything more than "leaving the scene" and that's in the rare cases they bother to track down the driver

It seems as though cyclists are getting the short end of the stick already, even when it comes to bike-vs-car accidents. I don't see this guy getting any sort of break, given his attitude so far, especially since he's the at-fault party in a fatal bike-vs-pedestrian collision caused by excessive speed. Right now, he's just asking to become the poster child for what can happen if your careless bike-riding kills someone.

I got hit in 2008 - I was on the main bike path into DC, which, during the week and good weather, is a good commuting option. When it gets into some of the surface street crossings closer in, you've got to be VERY careful. I pulled up to a crossing, and stopped, because I saw vehicles nearby. First one stopped on the right and waved me through......I held up my hand, and pointed the other way, because I could see another car coming. They stopped. Since it was a two-lane street, and both sides had stopped, I clipped in, and rolled forward. Three cars back on the right, some yahoo either didn't see everyone stopped (two cars in front of him at a well-marked intersection, oncoming traffic stopped too), or didn't care, because he swerved into the curb lane (which was marked for parking spaces).

After I cleared the car on the right, I saw him just in time to go, "Oh, shiat." Took the bike out from under me (still clipped in), and I went up on the hood, like Mannix. Hit my ribs on the A pillar / windshield, then fell back down to the pavement, still attached to the bike.

Guy was ticketed, but initially pled not guilty, and said he was just trying to park his car (at about 25MPH, apparently). Said he didn't see the intersection and signs, that I ran out in front of him, etc.

So, I had to go to court. When he saw that the entire town police force showed up (that's their traffic day), he changed his plea to guilty. I was hoping to be able to use my Garmin Edge 305 GPS for evidence.......it showed my entire trip, how fast I was going, when I stopped, when I was coasting and not pedaling, and my heart rate.

It showed me stopped at that intersection for 90 seconds.....then going forward at 5 MPH.....then going LEFT at 25 MPH. (then it just showed me lying on the ground for about 10 minutes).

That's a huge intersection, a farking car would have had time to stop.

gingerjet: FunkOut: Bikes are not real vehicles and they don't belong in traffic. They need their own damn lane. I hate seeing some 40 year old spandex clad dude on a racing bike trying to make a left hand turn in busy traffic at a 6 lane intersection. You've got no engine, you have two 40 year old legs, what makes you think you can keep up, wtf?

Bikes are real vehicles. Learn that the roads aren't just for your 40 year old ass in an SUV munching on a hamburger while sending your wifes best friend pictures of your junk.

/have no sympathy for the idiot cyclist in the story
//or for you

Exactly - which is why bicyclists should be required to have a license, registration and insurance, right?

Or did you really just mean 'bikes are real vehicles' when you want to be treated like a real vehicle - but not when you don't?

Why Would I Read the Article: Ha, this guy is the absolute, typical cyclist. An absolute piece of garbage who doesn't think the rules apply to him ("derr i was going to fast to stop at the red light so I just ran it hurr durr derrrrr") and then he's actually proud of himself for killing a pedestrian.

All cyclists need to be stuffed into a rocket ship and launched into the sun. They are horrible, horrible people. The next law of the road they follow will be the first. Get them off the farking road. You want to ride your bike, Lance? Find a farking trail somewhere, and get the fark out of the way.

Nice attempt in trolling ass munch. -1/10

Yogimus: Nice catch.

I've argued with him before over this. We both live in Philadelphia, so there's a very real chance we will cross paths someday. Most streets in Philly are one-way and one-lane, just wide enough for a car and a cyclist side-by-side, which is what makes riding the wrong way so dangerous.

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that not only did cycling douche try to blow the light, he probably shot that intersection with no hands on the handlebars.

kokomo61: I got hit in 2008 - I was on the main bike path into DC, which, during the week and good weather, is a good commuting option. When it gets into some of the surface street crossings closer in, you've got to be VERY careful. I pulled up to a crossing, and stopped, because I saw vehicles nearby. First one stopped on the right and waved me through......I held up my hand, and pointed the other way, because I could see another car coming. They stopped. Since it was a two-lane street, and both sides had stopped, I clipped in, and rolled forward. Three cars back on the right, some yahoo either didn't see everyone stopped (two cars in front of him at a well-marked intersection, oncoming traffic stopped too), or didn't care, because he swerved into the curb lane (which was marked for parking spaces).

After I cleared the car on the right, I saw him just in time to go, "Oh, shiat." Took the bike out from under me (still clipped in), and I went up on the hood, like Mannix. Hit my ribs on the A pillar / windshield, then fell back down to the pavement, still attached to the bike.

Guy was ticketed, but initially pled not guilty, and said he was just trying to park his car (at about 25MPH, apparently). Said he didn't see the intersection and signs, that I ran out in front of him, etc.

So, I had to go to court. When he saw that the entire town police force showed up (that's their traffic day), he changed his plea to guilty. I was hoping to be able to use my Garmin Edge 305 GPS for evidence.......it showed my entire trip, how fast I was going, when I stopped, when I was coasting and not pedaling, and my heart rate.

It showed me stopped at that intersection for 90 seconds.....then going forward at 5 MPH.....then going LEFT at 25 MPH. (then it just showed me lying on the ground for about 10 minutes).

As soon as a driver tells me he "Didn't see the signs", he gets a ticket. (Yes you did, and you knew you were farking up, or you wouldn't say that)

Dwight_Yeast: mark12A: ///rides the wrong way

Oh, that's right! you're that asshole!

You're part of the problem. When you ride the wrong way, you're not only breaking the law and putting yourself in danger, you're also putting other cyclists in danger.

/When I'm coming towards you on a one-way street with a car behind me, I'm standing my ground, as I've got the law on my side. Which means you will have two choices: 1) run head-on into me, or run into the car.
//asshole

Time after time I find myself playing chicken with the college kids in town because of this. As we get close, I begin pointing to the other side of the road, to see if the can guess what's wrong with this picture. The trouble with these teenagers is that they stopped riding when they were twelve or so, when it was no longer cool. Then they go to college, where bicycles are both convenient, and kinda hip, and get one and pick up where they left off when they were twelve.

Fano: Evenbiggerknickers: something is seriously wrong with this cyclist. If I killed someone by accident...even if it was all the other persons fault...I imagine I would still be devastated. Let alone take to the internet and describe my killing of said guy as 'blammo'.

Instead one should say "gimmie 'em ducats."

The fact that he is a cyclist makes it obvious something is seriously wrong with him.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Exactly - which is why bicyclists should be required to have a license, registration and insurance, right?

I'm all for that. It would get a lot of dangerous cyclists off the road, and make life for me a hell of a lot safer.

Hell, just regularly ticketing cyclists for moving violations would make things worlds better.

if there is not a "bike lane" there is not enough room on the roads around here for a bicycle. lots of blind hills and curves. i don't feel sorry for the dumbass cyclists at all anymore. it seems like one or two get killed every year. fark them. i used to ride myself but the last time i had to go into a ditch to avoid a car i decided that the country roads were to dangerous. if i ever just have to buy another bicycle i will take it to this really nice park they built where you can ride around a lake. it must be eight miles around. and safe.

Repo Man: The trouble with these teenagers is that they stopped riding when they were twelve or so, when it was no longer cool. Then they go to college, where bicycles are both convenient, and kinda hip, and get one and pick up where they left off when they were twelve.

I have this theory that a lot of bad cyclists (and bad pedestrians) were raised in the suburbs and don't understand that there are rules of the road which apply to them. They seem to think they can ride wherever then want, however they want.

(I was one making a legal left on my bike and almost hit a cyclist. He had been riding the wrong way, in the dark, on the sidewalk and came off into my path without stopping. When I confronted him, he said he was riding on the sidewalk because he was on a one-way street and he was going the wrong way. He honestly seemed to think he was doing the right thing.)

cats4rent: if there is not a "bike lane" there is not enough room on the roads around here for a bicycle

That's nice, but bikes are vehicles and have the same rights to the road that cars do.

Bikes should be banned. How many innocent people die from bikes every year in this country. Oh, wait, they want to ban guns. Sorry, nothing to see here. Back to cleaning my weapons.

Dwight_Yeast: That's nice, but bikes are vehicles and have the same rights to the road that cars do.

Technically not true since bikes are required by law to stay as far right as possible.

exvaxman: mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

AMEN!
I have had several incidents with cyclists in my area. Always their fault - usually blowing stop signs or traffic lights. The last one would have been iffy if I had not had a dash cam in the car. Blind intersection due to a bad curve that did have a traffic light on it. I got a green, saw nothing and pulled into the intersection. I was plowed into by a cyclist who was going at a high rate of speed and flipped over my car - he spent two months in the hospital due to his back injuries because of how he hit the street after flying several feet. The dash cam not only showed that I pulled into the intersection on a green light, but had delayed enough so that there was no question of someone actually in the intersection. Asshat tried sueing through several lawyers, he couldn't find anyone to take the case. He did have to pay for damages to my car not covered by insurance, but he keeps trying to sue but as soon as the lawyers read the accident report and hear that there is video evidence, they tell him "no way".


Good for you. May I ask what kind of camera do you use? Been thinking about picking one up.

exvaxman: mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

AMEN!
I have had several incidents with cyclists in my area. Always their fault - usually blowing stop signs or traffic lights. The last one would have been iffy if I had not had a dash cam in the car. Blind intersection due to a bad curve that did have a traffic light on it. I got a green, saw nothing and pulled into the intersection. I was plowed into by a cyclist who was going at a high rate of speed and flipped over my car - he spent two months in the hospital due to his back injuries because of how he hit the street after flying several feet. The dash cam not only showed that I pulled into the intersection on a green light, but had delayed enough so that there was no question of someone actually in the intersection. Asshat tried sueing through several lawyers, he couldn't find anyone to take the case. He did have to pay for damages to my car not covered by insurance, but he keeps trying to sue but as soon as the lawyers read the accident report and hear that there is video evidence, they tell him "no way".

I'm starting to wonder if I should put a dash cam on my car. I hate the thought of recording my every move, but it's starting to sound like the safest thing to do.

/school buses are starting to get extra cams for this reason too

cats4rent: if there is not a "bike lane" there is not enough room on the roads around here for a bicycle. lots of blind hills and curves. i don't feel sorry for the dumbass cyclists at all anymore. it seems like one or two get killed every year. fark them. i used to ride myself but the last time i had to go into a ditch to avoid a car i decided that the country roads were to dangerous. if i ever just have to buy another bicycle i will take it to this really nice park they built where you can ride around a lake. it must be eight miles around. and safe.

They have lots of country roads around here as well. Sometimes you come around a corner, and there is a tractor, or some other form of motorized farm equipment going twenty miles an hour (or less). I suppose if you were to crash into them because you didn't have time to stop, that's just the way it goes? You see, you have to share the road because it belongs to all of us. The farm equipment operators are not in the wrong, they are legally allowed to use the roads here. They go as fast as they can, as far to the right as they can. But motorists operating more conventional vehicles still have to be aware of them, and are still at fault if they should run into them. Why is it so difficult to see that bicycles are no different?

darkscout: cavehobbit: I have had people step out right in front of me as I am going down a hill at over 30 mph, while looking right at me, and I was below the speed limit. No way I can stop from that speed in only a few feet.

At least they looked. Purdue doesn't have a lot of bike paths on campus but they have a few thoroughfares that are painted up like roads. Dotted lines down the center. Yellow lines on the side. Big pictures of bikes every 30 feet painted on the ground Sort of seen on google. Everyone else on campus I accept the fact that I'm in the pedestrian world and ride cautiously, but I usually book it down these bike 'roads'. People will cell phones, people on their iPod just walk into the path. Normally I catch idiots ahead of time and plan on them but occasionally I'll brush a collision.


The second worst thing is people trying to react to me. I have my path planned. I treat everyone with Newton's second law. I know how fast everyone is moving their trajectories etc. (swear to God I have near Spice abilities on my bike) and 98% of the time they're in their little world and everything is fine. But occasionally someone will look up, see me and then panic.

Yeah, it's not like those can't change in an instant or anything...

/you've been lucky so far.

cuzsis: exvaxman: mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

AMEN!
I have had several incidents with cyclists in my area. Always their fault - usually blowing stop signs or traffic lights. The last one would have been iffy if I had not had a dash cam in the car. Blind intersection due to a bad curve that did have a traffic light on it. I got a green, saw nothing and pulled into the intersection. I was plowed into by a cyclist who was going at a high rate of speed and flipped over my car - he spent two months in the hospital due to his back injuries because of how he hit the street after flying several feet. The dash cam not only showed that I pulled into the intersection on a green light, but had delayed enough so that there was no question of someone actually in the intersection. Asshat tried sueing through several lawyers, he couldn't find anyone to take the case. He did have to pay for damages to my car not covered by insurance, but he keeps trying to sue but as soon as the lawyers read the accident report and hear that there is video evidence, they tell him "no way".

I'm starting to wonder if I should put a dash cam on my car. I hate the thought of recording my every move, but it's starting to sound like the safest thing to do.

/school buses are starting to get extra cams for this reason too

Be careful, they can be used against you just as easily.

common sense is an oxymoron: OgreMagi: Dimensio: DBacich: It's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, even if it turns red while you're within the intersection. Also, if you cross the street without looking you might die.

The legality of such action varies from state to state. Kentucky law prohibits being in an intersection when the light is red regardless of the light condition at the time of entering the intersection.

Downtown Los Angeles has the same law, the gridlock law. Too often people would enter the intersection while it was yellow, and still be there when it turned red, preventing cross traffic from moving. The very first ticket given out when they changed the law was to a bus driver.

If you "break the plane of the intersection" before the light turns red, then you're okay as long as you have room to clear the intersection after crossing (at least in CA--and it's the idiots who get stuck in the intersection because of the next red light who cause gridlock).

Hmmm.... http://opinions.kycourts.net/coa/2008-CA-000486.pdf (new window)

A Kentucky jury found a plaintiff 50% liable for getting rear-ended at a stoplight BECAUSE she stopped on yellow instead of going through, thus no damages in getting rear-ended by a dump truck.

serial_crusher: Well, depending on where you were, he might have been doing the right thing. Generally bikes are allowed to ride on the sidewalks, just like any pedestrians.

I need to re-read certain sections of the PA highway code, but my understanding was that here in PA, if you were over 14 years old, you are not allowed to ride on the sidewalk. In a dense, urban area like the one I live in, riding on the sidewalk is downright dangerous (I will admit I've ridden on sidewalks in suburban parts of the city, but only where high-speed traffic makes the road downright dangerous and where no pedestrians use the sidewalk.)

As it stands, I live in Philly, and the city is laid out in a grid. One block to the east and one block to the west of the street we were on are one-way northbound streets. That's where he should have been riding, rather than on the sidewalk.

Repo Man: Why is it so difficult to see that bicycles are no different?

Because these articles are never about a cyclist operating within the scope of the law. They're about people who think that because they're on a bicycle, they're different.

serial_crusher: The light turned yellow as I was approaching the intersection, but I was already way too committed to stop. The light turned red as I was cruising through the middle of the intersection

Not sure about California laws, but in Texas he would have had the right of way. Here it's illegal to *enter* the intersection while the light is red. If it turns red while you're in there, you're OK. Then it's also illegal for cross traffic to enter the intersection before it's clear.

Well yes, but how long does the ROW persist? I mean if you entered on yellow and were crawling at 5 mph, then it would take some time to get to the other side, and the lights don't follow your ROW as some sort of courtesy.

It was pointed out that the intersection IS an exceptionally long 170ft, and ironically, the slower you're moving, the more dangerous it would be to enter on yellow.

9beers: Dwight_Yeast: That's nice, but bikes are vehicles and have the same rights to the road that cars do.

Technically not true since bikes are required by law to stay as far right as possible.

(In California...)
Actually, it's quite true and you actually state why. ;) Bikes are considered devices with the rights and responsibilities of motor vehicles and since they're slow-moving vehicles under the law, they have to stay to the right.

Event then, the CVC says that bikes are to stay as far to the right as *practicable* (not the same as "possible) and there are a series of exceptions that allow a bike to come away from the right. The most important exceptions are to dodge obstacles, stay out of the way of obstacles (door zone, etc.), when merging to an appropriate lane, or in the case of sub-standard lane width where a bicycle and car cannot safely share the same lane.

In the case of sub-standard lane width, the bike is supposed to take the lane. The cars behind can either wait behind the cyclist or choose to pass on the left. Of course, if there is a LINE of cars behind, just like any slow-moving vehicle, it is the responsibility of the bicyclist to pull over and let the line pass.

serial_crusher: looks like you're right, provided you were in a "business district", not just a crowded urban residential area.:
Section 3508. Pedalcycles on sidewalks and pedalcycle paths.

Interesting. Looks like there have been a bunch of changes to the code since the last time I read it (I don't remember anything about LEDs, for instance). The phrase "business district" makes sense in small towns, but it's amazingly vague here in the city. There are plenty of streets which go from completely residential to completely commercial in less than a mile, and lots of places which are a mix of the two. Wonder how they define that for Philly.

BummerDuck: "The light turned yellow as I was approaching the intersection, but I was already way too committed to stop.

Here is your hint you are going to fast, moron.

Why would that make him go without eating for an extended period?

lohphat: From what you pastes the light turned red AFTER he entered the intersection. If that's the case, he has legal right of way. Opposing traffic is not free to go on a simple green/walk signal, they must get the green/walk AND allow the intersection to clear of opposing traffic.

He's still in the wrong for operating at an unsafe speed and causing a death while doing so. He'll probably end up convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter like the similar situation that happened also in SF.

serial_crusher: Dude was going 35. That seems like about the same speed a car should be traveling on that road. I looked up and down that road on street view until I got bored, but never found a speed limit sign. Anybody know what the speed limit is there?

I'm pretty sure it's 25 anywhere in the city limits of SF unless otherwise posted. If he was going too fast to stop before the crosswalk filled up the speed limit won't matter because he was operating recklessly under the state's basic speed law. Either way, he's screwed.

mark12A: Mmmmm, another bicycle hate thread. Good, good, your tears are like Gatorade to me...

/starts regular bike commuting to work this week
//ignores ALL signs/signals IF the way is clear
///rides the wrong way
\\\assumes all cars ARE out to get me, rides accordingly
\\this is my 12th season of doing this in the dirty mean streets of Philly
\ain't dead yet, ain't hit anyone yet

No hate here, in the climate I live in I actually have respect for most bicyclists. (excluding the drunk ones)

Just wanted to say that I had a friend that often said the same thing about his crotch rocket, except he would add in that he could evade the cops because of his superior speed and agility. He did it for a number of years without incident. He's not my friend anymore, though.

He's dead.

/at least he didn't take anyone with him.

RareChimer: 9beers: Dwight_Yeast: That's nice, but bikes are vehicles and have the same rights to the road that cars do.

Technically not true since bikes are required by law to stay as far right as possible.

(In California...)
Actually, it's quite true and you actually state why. ;) Bikes are considered devices with the rights and responsibilities of motor vehicles and since they're slow-moving vehicles under the law, they have to stay to the right.

Here in PA, the law says that we're to stay to the right "as far as practicable" and we have the right to take the lane to avoid drainage grates, potholes, etc. The Amish in their buggies (another slow-moving vehicle) are legally expected to do the some.

Interestingly, there's no legal requirement for bikes or buggies or farm vehicles to pull off the road to let faster traffic by.

They did just change the law here last week, forcing cars passing bikes to give them at least 4 ft of space (impossible in parts of the city) but also granting cars the right to cross a double yellow to do so (a change that should have been made years ago).

The Face Of Oblivion: The rider goes on, "Apparently I hit a 71-year-old male pedestrian and he ended up in the ICU with pretty serious head injuries. I really hope he ends up OK."

Were you elsewhere at the time or do you ordinarily talk like a valley girl in addition to dressing like one?

Well, yeah, his brain was somewhere else at the time. He lost consciousness when he hit the ground, and then was taken to the hospital. What words would you use to describe it? "Apparently" seems to fit, once I understood the context.

This minor detail, of course, does not excuse reckless driving resulting in manslaughter.

mat catastrophe: My problem with bicyclists is that they complain very loudly to be treated properly on the road, yet they are consistently the biggest assholes on the road with regard to following street rules.

THIS.

About 15 years ago my wife got run down by one of those a-hole bike messengers in NYC. She was legally in the crosswalk when he came whipping around a stopped van and hit her. Her neck and back are messed up to this day.

CigaretteSmokingMan: About 15 years ago my wife got run down by one of those a-hole bike messengers in NYC. She was legally in the crosswalk when he came whipping around a stopped van and hit her. Her neck and back are messed up to this day.

If she'd been hit by someone driving a car, would you blame all automobile drivers?

Dwight_Yeast: CigaretteSmokingMan: About 15 years ago my wife got run down by one of those a-hole bike messengers in NYC. She was legally in the crosswalk when he came whipping around a stopped van and hit her. Her neck and back are messed up to this day.

If she'd been hit by someone driving a car, would you blame all automobile drivers?

Did he blame all bike riders?

BummerDuck:
The medical examiner has not publicly stated if Hui's death was a result of his injuries from the accident.

Is this not obvious?

(exasperated sigh) Yes, it certainly is obvious. And the obvious answer is wrong far more often than you seem to believe. That's why professionals like Medical Examiners actually look at stuff, instead of letting random Internet people thousands of miles from the accident make legally binding calls based solely on evidence gathered from Fark.

Did you consider the possibility this 71-year-old had an aneurysm while crossing the street, fell down instantly dead, hit his head, and THEN the cyclist plowed into his corpse? Of course you didn't, it's ridiculous. But with over 7 billion of us in the world, ridiculous things happen surprisingly often. I seem to remember reading about a drunk-driving case right here that ended in roughly that way. They proved the driver, while admittedly legally drunk, was already dead when the accident occurred. Anybody remember enough for a proper citation?

So now we have MEs doing autopsys instead of lynch mobs using so-called "common sense". Sounds like a good trade to me!

Yogimus: Dwight_Yeast: CigaretteSmokingMan: About 15 years ago my wife got run down by one of those a-hole bike messengers in NYC. She was legally in the crosswalk when he came whipping around a stopped van and hit her. Her neck and back are messed up to this day.

If she'd been hit by someone driving a car, would you blame all automobile drivers?

Did he blame all bike riders?

Nope. Just a-holes in the middle of a city who think they're in the Tour de France.

lohphat:

The bicyclist entered the intersection on a yellow -- perfectly legal in CA and IIRC *every* state -- the herds left their curbs on a walk signal but did not look to see that another vehicle who had legal access to the intersection had not cleared it.

These are the base facts.

Impossible for us to say, but chances are fairly small that both of these situations happened. If you're going 35 and you enter on a yellow, you'll most likely be well beyond the crosswalk before it turns red, the walk sign appears, and a crowd of people makes it into the middle of the street.

Maybe it happened exactly like that, but I would wager someone isn't telling the truth. My bet is on the guy who thought he merely "critically injured" someone, and so lead a prayer service for his helmet.

A cyclist is obligated to share the road, following the rules of the road, and always they are obligated to ride with full control of their vehicle, no matter what. This is a case of criminal negligence on the cyclist's part. Pedestrians, right or wrong, always have the right-of-way, that's the law, and you are obligated to ride in full control at all times, or not at all. I don't give a flying fark about the sweet free momentum you've built up and are loathe to shed; you have to stop when required just like motorcycles or cars do. Too farking bad you have to start from a dead stop all over again at an intersection like everybody else. You chose to ride a human-powered vehicle. It's exercise and good for you. I have zero sympathy for anybody on 2 wheels that thinks they should get a break on the rules because starting over from a standstill is work. When I ride my recumbent, I follow every rule of the road just like a car.

Dwight_Yeast: CigaretteSmokingMan: About 15 years ago my wife got run down by one of those a-hole bike messengers in NYC. She was legally in the crosswalk when he came whipping around a stopped van and hit her. Her neck and back are messed up to this day.

If she'd been hit by someone driving a car, would you blame all automobile drivers?

He agreed with a blanket statement, so in appearance, yes.

I see his has qualified that statement.

CigaretteSmokingMan: sorry to hear about the accident your wife suffered. Dealing with cronic pain is a biatch. I'm lucky in that I only have a bad knee (so far) from getting hit by a car, as I already described upthread.

If the police continue to treat cyclists like they are above the law the assholes out there will behave like it.

Any Pie Left: Too farking bad you have to start from a dead stop all over again at an intersection like everybody else. You chose to ride a human-powered vehicle. It's exercise and good for you. I have zero sympathy for anybody on 2 wheels that thinks they should get a break on the rules because starting over from a standstill is work. When I ride my recumbent, I follow every rule of the road just like a car.

Next time I'm getting honked at as I'm getting a start from a dead stop, I wish you could be there to explain this to the driver behind me.

lohphat: If you enter a an intersection, be it on foot, on a bike, on a motorcycle, horse, car, llama -- and you don't check for cross traffic that may or may not have the right of way, you may be killed. In some cases you may be technically right, but you'll be dead.

The bicyclist entered the intersection on a yellow -- perfectly legal in CA and IIRC *every* state -- the herds left their curbs on a walk signal but did not look to see that another vehicle who had legal access to the intersection had not cleared it.

These are the base facts.

No, those are assertions made by the cyclist. Issues of fact are a matter for a jury to decide.

There's a reason we lump all San Francisco bike riders into the "ass-hat douchebag" category. It's because the courteous, law-abiding bike rider is so rare in San Fransisco that many people question their very existence.

Dwight_Yeast: Fark_Guy_Rob: Exactly - which is why bicyclists should be required to have a license, registration and insurance, right?

I'm all for that. It would get a lot of dangerous cyclists off the road, and make life for me a hell of a lot safer.

Hell, just regularly ticketing cyclists for moving violations would make things worlds better.

Then I totally respect and agree with your position.

/Weird to say that on Fark

davidphogan: serial_crusher: Dude was going 35. That seems like about the same speed a car should be traveling on that road. I looked up and down that road on street view until I got bored, but never found a speed limit sign. Anybody know what the speed limit is there?

I'm pretty sure it's 25 anywhere in the city limits of SF unless otherwise posted. If he was going too fast to stop before the crosswalk filled up the speed limit won't matter because he was operating recklessly under the state's basic speed law. Either way, he's screwed.

This. It's going to take a hell of an attorney to convince a jury that the cyclist was "legally" in the intersection when he hit the pedestrian.

As a side question, how responsible is the victim if his view of the cyclist was blocked by other pedestrians and he started crossing simply because the people in front of him did, with a green light?

lohphat: If you enter a an intersection, be it on foot, on a bike, on a motorcycle, horse, car, llama -- and you don't check for cross traffic that may or may not have the right of way, you may be killed. In some cases you may be technically right, but you'll be dead.

The bicyclist entered the intersection on a yellow -- perfectly legal in CA and IIRC *every* state -- the herds left their curbs on a walk signal but did not look to see that another vehicle who had legal access to the intersection had not cleared it.

These are the base facts.

The mitigating facts are:

1. His speed. Regardless, he could be charged with speeding if he was indeed going 35 in a 25.

2. Pedestrians did not follow the law. They did not allow a pre-existing vehicle with right-of-way to exit the intersection. It could have been a semi-truck to failed brakes coming down that hill (Divis. crossing Market is a significant hill) or some moran texting -- regardless: pay attention to your surroundings.

3. This is not a case where the vehicle was trapped in the intersection by traffic ahead. Some states prohibit entering an intersection if it has standing traffic to avoid gridlock (i.e. "Don't block the box" laws). This does not apply in this case.


Your math makes sense but as a cyclist, I still see recklessness. If I'm riding close enough to pedestrians that they can potentially step in front of me (clearly the case here), I ride at a speed where I can stop and if I do hit them it would only be the minorest of injuries...walking speed basically. Yes, according to your logic he was legally inbounds, but not by any safe cycling practices.

Dwight_Yeast: RareChimer: 9beers: Dwight_Yeast: That's nice, but bikes are vehicles and have the same rights to the road that cars do.

Technically not true since bikes are required by law to stay as far right as possible.

(In California...)
Actually, it's quite true and you actually state why. ;) Bikes are considered devices with the rights and responsibilities of motor vehicles and since they're slow-moving vehicles under the law, they have to stay to the right.

Here in PA, the law says that we're to stay to the right "as far as practicable" and we have the right to take the lane to avoid drainage grates, potholes, etc. The Amish in their buggies (another slow-moving vehicle) are legally expected to do the some.

Interestingly, there's no legal requirement for bikes or buggies or farm vehicles to pull off the road to let faster traffic by.

They did just change the law here last week, forcing cars passing bikes to give them at least 4 ft of space (impossible in parts of the city) but also granting cars the right to cross a double yellow to do so (a change that should have been made years ago).

Ya, we in California have been watching other states get their buffer laws passed. We tried to get a "3 feet or 15mph max difference" law to pass last year, but the CHP misunderstood it as "3 feet and 15mph max difference" and misadvised Governor Brown.

A new proposal has just been put forth saying "3 feet at all times" which, in my opinion is bad for very-low speed areas where a car should be allowed to pass a bit closer.

Something needs to be done about the Critical Mass assholes who clog up the streets every month just because they can.

lohphat: Here's some data, not imagined opinions pulled from your ass:

21456. Whenever a pedestrian control signal showing the words "WALK"
or "WAIT" or "DONT WALK" or other approved symbol is in place, the
signal shall indicate as follows:
(a) "WALK" or approved "Walking Person" symbol. A pedestrian
facing the signal may proceed across the roadway in the direction of
the signal, but shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully
within the intersection at the time that signal is first shown. ^

Emphasis mine.

...according to Officer Rich Obregon of the California Highway Patrol. According to Obregon, a driver entering an intersection before the light turns red has the legal right to proceed across that intersection no matter how big it is. The green light for drivers approaching from both sides, he says, does not give them the unconditional right to enter the intersection at any time--only when conditions are safe.^


Obviously pedestrians are going to have to wait for the vehicle to pass and obviously the car that ran the light needs to clear the intersection. That has nothing to do with what I said. If you have not cleared the intersection before the light turns red, you have violated the law and can be ticketed.

Evenbiggerknickers: something is seriously wrong with this cyclist. If I killed someone by accident...even if it was all the other persons fault...I imagine I would still be devastated. Let alone take to the internet and describe my killing of said guy as 'blammo'.

Yeah. The lack of, really any emotion here is kind of worrying. This isn't like someone in shock, this is just complete disregard for one's actions.

/was he trying to get to the gym in 26 minutes?

lohphat: I'm not defending him but SF pedestrians also have a sense of entitlement and jaywalk recklessly too. I jaywalk too but do so without other traffic around where there would be no ambiguity of trajectory and intent. Too many just walk out into the street and avoid eye contact knowing they shouldn't be doing it and then when a car honks to get their attention, they get all indignant and flip them off.

Between the oblivious drivers and some amazingly pedestrian-unfriendly intersections (try a walk signal synchronized not with the green at that crossing, but with the signal a half-block back; it helps gridlock but confuses and annoys drivers making a right turn, who see someone loitering at a green light and then suddenly crossing in front of them), it can be safer to jaywalk when you can see there's no oncoming traffic than to cross at a controlled intersection.

I have been in San Francisco before where I had the right of way but pedestrians were filling the street anyway. As I slowly proceeded through the intersection, mad pedestrians were thrumming on my car, oblivious to the red blinking hand that forbade their crossing. Pedestrians can get the hell out of the way or move faster.

lohphat: He did not run the light. He entered on the yellow. Do you have alternate information?

All we know for sure is that by the time he got to the other side, the crosswalk was full of people. That tells me that he clearly didn't clear the intersection before the light changed. I can see somebody being a dumb ass and stepping off the curb early but when the biker himself says that it was jammed with people, he's clearly in the wrong.

9beers: lohphat: Here's some data, not imagined opinions pulled from your ass:

21456. Whenever a pedestrian control signal showing the words "WALK"
or "WAIT" or "DONT WALK" or other approved symbol is in place, the
signal shall indicate as follows:
(a) "WALK" or approved "Walking Person" symbol. A pedestrian
facing the signal may proceed across the roadway in the direction of
the signal, but shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully
within the intersection at the time that signal is first shown. ^

Emphasis mine.

...according to Officer Rich Obregon of the California Highway Patrol. According to Obregon, a driver entering an intersection before the light turns red has the legal right to proceed across that intersection no matter how big it is. The green light for drivers approaching from both sides, he says, does not give them the unconditional right to enter the intersection at any time--only when conditions are safe.^


Obviously pedestrians are going to have to wait for the vehicle to pass and obviously the car that ran the light needs to clear the intersection. That has nothing to do with what I said. If you have not cleared the intersection before the light turns red, you have violated the law and can be ticketed.


Are you kidding? The law you just quoted clearly says you can legally cross an intersection as long as you enter before the light turns red, not exit.

lohphat: This is false. You can enter on the yellow and legally complete the crossing even if it turn red. I have provided citations confirming my position you have done nothing.

No you haven't all you've proven is that people have to wait for the intersection to clear and that a vehicle still in the intersection has to get out.

9beers: lohphat: He did not run the light. He entered on the yellow. Do you have alternate information?

All we know for sure is that by the time he got to the other side, the crosswalk was full of people. That tells me that he clearly didn't clear the intersection before the light changed. I can see somebody being a dumb ass and stepping off the curb early but when the biker himself says that it was jammed with people, he's clearly in the wrong.

He's in the wrong, but not for failing to clear the intersection. If he had been doing 25 instead of 35, he would be innocent of any vehicle-code violation (assuming his brakes were in working order). Since he was speeding, it could be argued that he wasn't in the intersection legally when the light changed (if you beat the red by speeding on yellow, that's a ticket), and his speeding certainly contributed to his not being able to stop in time.

puckrock2000: Phoenix_M: Yogimus: He killed a man, and no charges? Quick, get the panthers and the clan to san-fran, STAT!

The DA is filing charges They're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The guy's going to prison mostly for leaving the scene of an accident.

From the cyclist's post - "I don't remember the next five minutes but when I came to, I was in a neck brace being loaded into an ambulance."

I don't think he can be charged with "leaving the scene" if he left on a stretcher in an ambulance.

The SFDA George Gascón was talking about it on the radio yesterday he must have been discussing a couple of different cases as-well I was only half listening. Bicyclist hitting pedestrian is a daily occurrence here in SF.