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(WAVY Virginia) NewsFlash Navy jet just crashed across the street from subbys work   (wavy.com ) divider line
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18213 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2012 at 12:56 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-04-06 05:29:32 PM  

Warthog: If the pilots kicked in the afterburners on the failed engine, they would have been dumping unlit fuel out of that tailpipe. I'm sure they were dumping gas, but it was to try and get it to burn, not in the hopes it wouldn't after they went in.


I'm no F-18 pilot, but I'm sure full afterburner on one working engine would have been enough to at least stay aloft and limp to the ocean. I'm thinking something much more serious than a single engine failure happened here.
 
2012-04-06 05:29:55 PM  
So how long does it take for an F18 to dump all its fuel?
 
2012-04-06 05:30:19 PM  
There should be zero identifiable wreckage from this crash. as everyone knows from a few years back; when a plane hits a building or a field, it disintegrates into the ether.
 
2012-04-06 05:30:43 PM  

9beers: Navy spokesman also says they weren't dumping fuel, the fuel spewing from the jet was part of the mechanical malfunction.


Ground crew forgot to put the gas cap back on?
 
2012-04-06 05:31:20 PM  

joness0154: So how far out do you protect? In a straight line from the end of the runway or trapezoidal?


I'd argue that there should be nothing but single-family homes or small businesses on individual parcels (if anything) within a couple miles of the approaches of any newly-constructed military or large commercial runways. Not only does this reduce population density (and take away cases like this, where an accident involved a multiple-story, incredibly dense housing complex for the elderly), but it almost, by default, results in structures that are lower in height.
 
2012-04-06 05:31:30 PM  

SoCalSurfer:
Best thing ever:

Go to the roof of the laurel travel garage and lay on your hood. I swear the gears come within 50 feet of your face

*in san diego


I tried that, I was in town at the Casbah just down the street. I went over there to ask if I could go on the roof and the security guy said no. Had a show to play later and didn't want to get arrested so that was that. Maybe if I had a car and paid to park things would have been different.

Speaking of playing music, I grew up in Va Beach and one of my old band practiced just off the runway at Oceana Self Storage (circa 1994). If you got on the roof of that place and stuck your hand up in the air there's a good chance you'd touch a plane overhead. I guess that's why they let crappy high school bands rent out practice spaces there, the noise from the planes was so loud you couldn't hear us most of the time.
 
2012-04-06 05:32:46 PM  

9beers: The crew was a student pilot and an instructor.


Oh jeez...poor kid. This is going to eat him up for the rest of his life. I can't watch the CNN briefing due to living abroad, but it's starting to sound like they might have hoovered up a few seagulls.
 
2012-04-06 05:37:11 PM  

9beers: The crew was a student pilot and an instructor.


He/she will probably be demoted to TSA screener.
 
2012-04-06 05:38:29 PM  

urger: urger: GT_bike: Wellon Dowd: The pilot punched out while going down over a populated area?

Was it this guy?

[i441.photobucket.com image 260x194]

[i441.photobucket.com image 263x192]

The houses in that shot don't seem to match the ones on the google map. I don't think we have the right spot on the map.

Nevermind - I just realized that the reason I couldn't seem to make it work in my head was because the building I was using as a reference seems to have been destroyed.


My picture iis from the house destroyed in San Diego under similar circumstances, except in that case the house had 2 people inside who were killed. 100 yards over is an empty canyon
 
2012-04-06 05:38:38 PM  
A witness on CNN now is saying she saw flames coming from under the right wing before the crash.
 
2012-04-06 05:40:29 PM  

9beers: The crew was a student pilot and an instructor.


Holy shiat. Worst "real life" scenario I ever had with my instructor was the AI showing a shallow right turn, when all other instruments were indicating straight and level flight.
 
2012-04-06 05:45:03 PM  

darch: I'm an LEO and I've responded solo to a few accident scenes where I could've used a hand from a civilian before my backup arrived and every single time, there have been able-bodied people staring at me through the screen of their camera phone. They'd rather film, upload and achieve some sort of sick notariety than help.

BronyMedic: The funny, and sad thing is, that basic first aid and initial aid done by bystanders could save a LOT of lives and prevent a lot of disability before EMS and Police get there, but everyone is too busy getting the next youtube video to help.


Actually, in many cases, civilians can't help. In fact, there are noted examples where people are told by LEOs (who aren't EMTs, by the way) where civilians are told to STAY AWAY.

If one needs assistance, it must be asked for, if not demanded, by an official on-scene.

Incidentally, you can blame your bosses AND your professional/volunteer brethren for this attitude. Don't blame gawkers for gawking.
 
2012-04-06 05:49:17 PM  
HOLY S**T! O_O
 
2012-04-06 05:51:58 PM  

MBooda: WTF Indeed: Boats can fly?

Well, in the Japanese Navy, yeah.
[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x375]


Yamato FTW!

/loved the cartoon
//live action version was so horrible
 
2012-04-06 05:55:02 PM  
puffy999: Actually, in many cases, civilians can't help. In fact, there are noted examples where people are told by LEOs (who aren't EMTs, by the way) where civilians are told to STAY AWAY.

I'm referring to before the arrival of professional help. Not after. You'd be amazed how many people won't do CPR, for example, because they are afraid of catching a disease.
 
2012-04-06 06:01:52 PM  

LessO2: 9beers: The crew was a student pilot and an instructor.

He/she will probably be demoted to TSA screener.


Step 1: blame the student
 
2012-04-06 06:02:16 PM  
Cross-posting from the follow-up thread on the off chance any of the "these pilots were cowards" trolls come back in here:

For the crowd who say the pilot should have done X, or Y, or Z, watch this video (new window) of a Canadian Air Force training crew ejecting after a bird strike. They were probably in a better position in terms of speed and altitude than the F-18 crew was when things went bad -- you hear the computer say "gear not down," so they were "clean" and weren't in a maximum drag configuration immediately after takeoff like the F-18 crew appeared to be.

They hit the bird 7 seconds into the video. They troubleshoot the issue for approximately 35 seconds -- trying and failing to get an engine relight. 48 seconds after the bird strike, the instructor calls "eject, eject, eject." 9 seconds later the jet hits the ground.

Assume a "big ol ocean" 2 miles ahead of them. They get there how, exactly?
 
2012-04-06 06:09:12 PM  

MBooda: JesusStoleMyBike: tom servo bit me: JesusStoleMyBike: MBooda:
/lived there for a year one month


365 days in one month? Are you a time lord?

The joke implies that the place is so horrible that time seems to slow down, thus making one month feel like one year. See also Denver, John, "spend[ing] a week [in Toledo] last night." Valuable not because of the John Denver-ness, but because of the Toledo-is-awfulness.

/Again with the explaining jokes

Why would you dash my hopes like that? I've been looking for a time lord my whole life. :(

Sorry, I'm not a time lord. Just Lord of the Pants.


Close enough.
 
2012-04-06 06:14:01 PM  

sat1va: JesusStoleMyBike: Sofa_king_kewl: One thing, I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier or not ...school is out in Virginia Beach, so kids may have been home.

Why is school out? This is getting worse and worse. I like to pretend like I can protect my kids from pretty much anything. Would never suspect an aircraft.

School is out because they caught that dude who stole your bike.


Not even gonna lie, that was farking funny
 
2012-04-06 06:37:41 PM  

Warthog: Assume a "big ol ocean" 2 miles ahead of them. They get there how, exactly?


Just to be clear, "Big Ole Ocean" was directed as an insult to the geographically challenged.
 
2012-04-06 06:42:12 PM  

9beers: A witness on CNN now is saying she saw flames coming from under the right wing before the crash.


It has been well-established in this thread that right-wing flamers are to be expected.

/wide stance
//thanks for the updates... quite a departure from your usual fare
 
2012-04-06 07:07:23 PM  

puffy999: I'd argue that there should be nothing but single-family homes or small businesses on individual parcels (if anything) within a couple miles of the approaches of any newly-constructed military or large commercial runways. Not only does this reduce population density (and take away cases like this, where an accident involved a multiple-story, incredibly dense housing complex for the elderly), but it almost, by default, results in structures that are lower in height.


Once more for the hard of reading: The Naval Air Station was there first. When NAS Oceana was built, there was nothing but open fields in the flight path of the runways. The local government willfully allowed residential and business encroachment into the crash zone over the Navy's objections. The local government did this in cahoots with real-estate developers in the interest of lining their own pockets and increasing tax revenue, probably in that order. This mishap can therefore be laid directly at the feet of those city council members and the Mayor.
 
2012-04-06 07:16:29 PM  
Here's the crash zones promulgated by the Navy:

Link (new window)
 
2012-04-06 07:39:51 PM  
oi44.tinypic.com
 
2012-04-06 07:41:23 PM  

johnnyboog: [oi44.tinypic.com image 600x471]


Ya know...what is so damned special about the flight pattern to the southeast that it has no crash potential?
 
2012-04-06 07:53:44 PM  

MythDragon: [images.wikia.com image 640x480]

He couldn't find an empty stadium?


Ace Combat 4 was better.
 
2012-04-06 07:58:53 PM  
Video is up on LL.
 
2012-04-06 08:08:55 PM  

johnnyboog: [oi44.tinypic.com image 600x471]


sky penis
 
2012-04-06 08:26:51 PM  

medius: johnnyboog: [oi44.tinypic.com image 600x471]

sky penis


I was drawing a tank!!!
 
2012-04-06 08:34:21 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: 9beers: Pilots ejected safely according to Fox News. I guess that means they're dead, right?

Oh come on. Everyone knows that Fox News tells the truth when it doesn't affect their agenda. Also, quit trying to stir shiat, where there is none. Use your intellect for something positive for a change.

You're the first person to respond to that in like 500 posts.

Maybe one of us is upset by a joke eh?


Naw, I'm just a slow typist.

/how's Saint Paul?
//useta print the PP
///I miss Minnesota
 
2012-04-06 08:39:44 PM  
I think its safe to say at this point, from what I've been able to glean from the web at large:

Plane (F-18D) takes off, student and backseat teacher, for training mission.

Pretty much immediately after takeoff, as in before the gear is even up, "Catastrophic Bad Thing" happened. Some say multiple bird strikes, which would easily take out a wing and an engine. Also possible, engine go boom, also blowing the fark out of the wing.

They have zilch for flight time, not much speed, not much lift, and even less altitude. They head towards water anyway, that's the way they're pointing....but then without a friggin wing, you ain't turning around and getting back to base under control anyhow. So, they burn the remaining engine full-bore until the see that they can't make the ocean anyhow.

So, they bring it low and slow, drop what fuel they can, and basically drag the ass on the treetops at stall speed aiming for something not flammable and eject at the point of the thing dropping like a brick mounted on a frisbee.

They live, the plane actually touches down in remarkable shape for just crash landing without pilots, and it "oops" took out a couple of buildings.

Am I missing anything important?
 
2012-04-06 08:48:30 PM  

xaks: I think its safe to say at this point, from what I've been able to glean from the web at large:

Plane (F-18D) takes off, student and backseat teacher, for training mission.

Pretty much immediately after takeoff, as in before the gear is even up, "Catastrophic Bad Thing" happened. Some say multiple bird strikes, which would easily take out a wing and an engine. Also possible, engine go boom, also blowing the fark out of the wing.

They have zilch for flight time, not much speed, not much lift, and even less altitude. They head towards water anyway, that's the way they're pointing....but then without a friggin wing, you ain't turning around and getting back to base under control anyhow. So, they burn the remaining engine full-bore until the see that they can't make the ocean anyhow.

So, they bring it low and slow, drop what fuel they can, and basically drag the ass on the treetops at stall speed aiming for something not flammable and eject at the point of the thing dropping like a brick mounted on a frisbee.

They live, the plane actually touches down in remarkable shape for just crash landing without pilots, and it "oops" took out a couple of buildings.

Am I missing anything important?


The "couple of buildings" were part of an adult living center- which means mostly ambulatory old folks. Twenty or so of said old folks are still unaccounted for.

The usual herd of mindless Monday-morning quarterbacks have been bleating absurdities about "putting an airfield in a residential area".

Other than that, not a bad summary.
 
2012-04-06 09:03:04 PM  

xaks: Am I missing anything important?


Nothing about the accident points towards the loss of a wing. I think you can safely omit those theories. Just based on the fact that they dumped fuel, the pre-crash picture showing it level, and the fact that the aircraft seems to have hit the crash scene in a fairly level attitude, I'd doubt the Catastrophic Bad Thing was the loss of a wing.
 
2012-04-06 09:03:39 PM  

gweilo8888: gopher321: Wecometofark.jpg

It's never "too soon".

Besides, it ain't my neighbourhood.

Did I just get 'wecomed' [sic] by somebody who joined Fark two months after me?

When there's possibly still blood trickling out of the hunks of flesh you're joking about then, yeah, it's probably too soon.


.

.

www.mojoimage.com
 
2012-04-06 09:04:04 PM  
I do not agree with all you stated, but more accurate than the media and the missing are down to six.
 
2012-04-06 09:19:42 PM  

xaks: Am I missing anything important?


The plane landed flat. its wings were intact until it hit a building or tree. If it stalled, it didn't get into a spin. I don't think it stalled.

At take off speed, they are covering 200 ft per second and were 30 seconds from the beach. A training flight most likely would have been low on fuel and no load. They would have been on take off power (but not the get me the fark out of here power). You do not want to punch out over high density housing if you have a choice and you don't want to punch out low over water either. The canopy acts like a huge air brake which would have dropped several thousand feed off the flight path but it also slowed the plane down a bit.

There might be electronics / computer failure that could explain this but full hydraulics or a dual engine failures would not.
 
2012-04-06 09:38:05 PM  

Wenchmaster: The usual herd of mindless Monday-morning quarterbacks have been bleating absurdities about "putting an airfield in a residential area".


Always get a kick out of that 'what idiot put an airbase here?' argument. Because there were so many apartments, condos and malls around NAS Oceana when it opened in 1940. Idiots.

Saw a picture in a book of Oceana from the air in WW2, there was nothing around it but farms. Can't find the photo online.
 
2012-04-06 09:58:40 PM  

puffy999: I'd argue that there should be nothing but single-family homes or small businesses on individual parcels (if anything) within a couple miles of the approaches of any newly-constructed military or large commercial runways.


The base was there long before.
 
2012-04-06 11:07:06 PM  

HawgWild: [encrypted-tbn0.google.com image 283x178]


Those are awesome pictures of the F-5 phantom
 
2012-04-06 11:27:45 PM  

Ashrams: They saved one of the victims
[cute-n-tiny.com image 400x300]


That man cried about his baby kitten. Maybe he should get a Caturday thread?
 
2012-04-07 12:02:50 AM  
DORMAMU


Smartest
Funniest

2012-04-06 04:49:54 PM

Third_Uncle_Eno: I heard on cbc radio news that they INTENTIONALLY dumped their fuel just prior to the crash (i guess when they knew they were going to crash) so that whatever they crashed into (and their plane) wouldn't burn as much or explode.

Could be also to dump weight to try and get a weeee bit farther to the sea.

U prob right tho


YouPeopleAreCrazy



Smartest
Funniest

2012-04-06 04:50:42 PM

Third_Uncle_Eno: I heard on cbc radio news that they INTENTIONALLY dumped their fuel just prior to the crash (i guess when they knew they were going to crash) so that whatever they crashed into (and their plane) wouldn't burn as much or explode.

Also, a lighter aircraft tends to fly farther.


both these make sense, too.
 
2012-04-07 12:48:02 AM  
I just got back from there and let me tell you, that shiat is awesome. Pure destruction. The apartment complex houses people aged 55 and up; I'm sure many were out at work or whatnot but I'll be amazed if the body count remains low. I think there's only been one casualty so far, discovered around 1900. Our main concern while in the crash site was a second plane hitting the South end of the complex.
 
2012-04-07 01:20:13 AM  
Crash site is black. Not gonna lie, that pretty much ruined for me.
 
2012-04-07 07:51:48 AM  

darch: I've noticed that it's now more important to capture a moment than to participate. No EMS/First Responders and no one going near to possibly lend assistance.

Perhaps I'm just cynical

You may be cynical, but you're also correct.

I'm an LEO and I've responded solo to a few accident scenes where I could've used a hand from a civilian before my backup arrived and every single time, there have been able-bodied people staring at me through the screen of their camera phone. They'd rather film, upload and achieve some sort of sick notariety than help.

People=Shiat.


I've tried to help in such situations a few times and I've always been yelled at for it, typically with profanity, so if you're going to get angry about this remember to reserve some of it for your fellow LEOs and other first responders who seem to take the idea of a "civilian" trying to help somebody in trouble as a personal insult.
 
2012-04-07 09:35:49 AM  
It's beginning to look like a happy exercise in probabilities. According to local news, all the residents are accounted for, no one died, and there were only 7 injuries- including the 2 pilots, one EMS guy, and one cop.
 
2012-04-07 11:50:32 AM  

Mishno: AugieDoggyDaddy: MindStalker: WTF Indeed: Boats can fly?

No, but aircraft carriers can carry/launch planes. Generally the planes on most carriers are Navy, though some are Air Force.

Actualy, all the planes on US Navy Carriers are Navy/USMC and zero are Airforce.

/ Twenty+ years Naval Aviation

Are you sure?
[www.aviationinsurors.com image 550x419]

[www.cgaux.com image 265x240]


U-2 on a carrier? Must have been hoisted aboard because those things take forever to land. Used to have some based here in Tucson.
 
2012-04-07 12:21:24 PM  

Angry Buddha: Angry Buddha: I wonder how many burned out cars in that parking lot had "I

HTML-owned.

"I -heart- Jet Noise"


That would be kinda funny. But to be fair, the stickers say" I love jet noise", not "I love burning jet engines in my living room"

Holy crap, I have to get to the trademark office...
 
2012-04-07 01:05:57 PM  

Gilligann: So how long does it take for an F18 to dump all its fuel?


Depends on how hard it hits. In this case, probably half a second.
 
2012-04-07 03:58:40 PM  

MythDragon: Gilligann: So how long does it take for an F18 to dump all its fuel?

Depends on how hard it hits. In this case, probably half a second.


The plane did dump a lot of fuel before the crash, so it could've been much worse. As it is, it seems only the pilots and 5 on the ground were injured (but released from the hospital).


img1.fark.net Pilots in fiery Navy jet crash faced tough choices
(new window)
 
2012-04-07 06:13:46 PM  

ultraholland: I just got back from there and let me tell you, that shiat is awesome. Pure destruction. The apartment complex houses people aged 55 and up; I'm sure many were out at work or whatnot but I'll be amazed if the body count remains low. I think there's only been one casualty so far, discovered around 1900. Our main concern while in the crash site was a second plane hitting the South end of the complex.


That must have been confusing for those who discovered him. The navy's not going to be happy you're letting out details of their experimental time jets.
 
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