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(NYPost)   If you're a sex offender in New York state, it's game over, perv man   (nypost.com) divider line 130
    More: Interesting, New York, online games, Eric Schneiderman, sex offenders  
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14684 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2012 at 4:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-06 08:30:06 PM

Tommy Moo: "The sex offender registry is mostly full of harmless people."


I don't care if it's only full of rapists. Murder is worse than all other crimes except maybe high treason and yet we don't have a "murders' registry" or rules about murders that make it impossible for them to join normal society again.

What about shop lifters? Rape is relatively rare, kiddy diddlin' too. But shoplifting! Hell, most people have done that. It would save the economy billions to know who the frequent lifters are and bar them from offline stores.

But we don't. The only reason we have a "sex" offender registry is that it's an emotional issue. Yes it causes some damage, but the damage it causes is 10000 less than the emotions it raises. It makes me physically ill to think that there's a person in my town who sent a dirty email to someone under 18 (probably 17) and now they're on a list with their legal name and address on it but if my other neighbors have killed people and served their time in prison I wouldn't know about it. That's insane to the point of ridiculousness.
 
2012-04-06 08:32:53 PM

lazyguineapig33: Tommy Moo: lazyguineapig33: what about the honors student from georgia who was 18 and he had sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. he got 10 years. sex crimes are the new witchcraft.

LoneWolf343: Actually, I've had people show up on the local sex offender listings for, I forget the exact term, something like "misdemeanor nudity," which I looked up and found out that it does include things like public urination. One of these "offenders" I actually knew personally.

So, you're the one that has his head in the sand, here.

OH MY GOD WITH THE HEARSAY. If someone does not post an actual link to an actual, reputable news source that says that a person had to register as a sex offender for streaking or having consensual sex with a person their age, and that this hasn't been overturned, I am claiming victory.

I am making this disgustingly easy for you. Technically, even if you could find one or two examples, we'd still say not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but no one can even find one.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003736459_webteens e x06.html

turns out he was 17, not even an adult and farked a 15 year old. life ruined. for what? so that we can feel good about how tough we are on "crime"?


Yes, the infamous Genarlow Wilson case, which caused a media firestorm. It didn't slip through the cracks. There were oversights in the laws, and those laws were corrected. Wilson was released on appeal, and his sex offender status was revoked. A mistake was made, and then corrected.
 
2012-04-06 08:37:45 PM

doglover: Tommy Moo: "The sex offender registry is mostly full of harmless people."

I don't care if it's only full of rapists. Murder is worse than all other crimes except maybe high treason and yet we don't have a "murders' registry" or rules about murders that make it impossible for them to join normal society again.

What about shop lifters? Rape is relatively rare, kiddy diddlin' too. But shoplifting! Hell, most people have done that. It would save the economy billions to know who the frequent lifters are and bar them from offline stores.

But we don't. The only reason we have a "sex" offender registry is that it's an emotional issue. Yes it causes some damage, but the damage it causes is 10000 less than the emotions it raises. It makes me physically ill to think that there's a person in my town who sent a dirty email to someone under 18 (probably 17) and now they're on a list with their legal name and address on it but if my other neighbors have killed people and served their time in prison I wouldn't know about it. That's insane to the point of ridiculousness.


We have a sex offender registry because, statistically, it has a higher recidivism rate than other crimes. People sometimes make the point that "They have already paid their debt to society. It's double jeopardy to make them continue to answer to the law after they get out of jail." To this argument I say that the registration is a part of the sentence. They haven't finished paying their debt. The sentence was three years in jail (or whatever) plus ten years on the sex offender registry. If you like we could make it 13 years in jail. It's just like parole. It's a way to let people out without giving them the full sentence, but also without simply turning them loose unaccounted for to run amok.
 
2012-04-06 08:45:34 PM

Tommy Moo: EViLTeW: Tommy Moo: FedExPope: Great, more useless measures that some dickbag politician can use to show he's tough on crime. Never mind that it is such a wide net that people who don't deserve it are being punished in all aspects of their lives.

You mean rapists? As in all of the people who are actually on the sex offender registry, and not the imaginary one that exists in your head?

Well, out of the ~30 people on the registry within my zip code, only ~3-4 of them were actually charged with a crime considered 'rape' and involve force or coercion. That's just my zip code, though.
Obviously you've done a very detailed study on the subject and know that all people in the sex offender registries in every state are all rapists, though. I'm so glad we have you to compile all that data and verify it.

Tell me your zip code. I will type it in. If I find a single example of a person who is on there for streaking, peeing on a building, or getting a consensual BJ in a park from a legally aged woman, I will publicly apologize to you.

My zip code is 14623. The first ten random people within two miles of me are guilty of:

sexual abuse-1st degree
attempted criminal sex act-2: oral/anal sex-actor 18 yrs or more/victim under 15
rape 3rd degree
sodomy 3: actor 21 or more has deviate intercourse w/person under 17
sodomy-1st degree
sexual abuse-1st degree
course of sexual conduct against child 2nd:two or more acts/child sexual abuse-1st degree
sexual abuse-2nd degree
sexual abuse 1st degree:contact by forcible compulsion

These were the first ten I clicked on, chosen at random. These are the men you are protecting.


Can you do a similar search for burglars? Why does the law protect thieves, huh?
 
2012-04-06 08:46:17 PM
Wait wait...what?

Is this Satire?

There is no way in hell this happened. NO game companies do background checks, they don't even have a check box for if you have ever been convicted of a crime. They don't care. They want your money. Sure later if you break their rules you will get booted, but ain't no way is being on a sex offender list is going to do just that! They have their own inhouse method of dealing with unruly people, and none of them are going to go minority reporting your ass.
 
2012-04-06 09:03:28 PM

Tommy Moo:
We have a sex offender registry because, statistically, it has a higher recidivism rate than other crimes.


Pure bullshiat, as has already been pointed out, the recidivism rate is far lower.
 
2012-04-06 09:05:54 PM

LoneWolf343: Tommy Moo: EViLTeW: Tommy Moo: FedExPope: Great, more useless measures that some dickbag politician can use to show he's tough on crime. Never mind that it is such a wide net that people who don't deserve it are being punished in all aspects of their lives.

You mean rapists? As in all of the people who are actually on the sex offender registry, and not the imaginary one that exists in your head?

Well, out of the ~30 people on the registry within my zip code, only ~3-4 of them were actually charged with a crime considered 'rape' and involve force or coercion. That's just my zip code, though.
Obviously you've done a very detailed study on the subject and know that all people in the sex offender registries in every state are all rapists, though. I'm so glad we have you to compile all that data and verify it.

Tell me your zip code. I will type it in. If I find a single example of a person who is on there for streaking, peeing on a building, or getting a consensual BJ in a park from a legally aged woman, I will publicly apologize to you.

My zip code is 14623. The first ten random people within two miles of me are guilty of:

sexual abuse-1st degree
attempted criminal sex act-2: oral/anal sex-actor 18 yrs or more/victim under 15
rape 3rd degree
sodomy 3: actor 21 or more has deviate intercourse w/person under 17
sodomy-1st degree
sexual abuse-1st degree
course of sexual conduct against child 2nd:two or more acts/child sexual abuse-1st degree
sexual abuse-2nd degree
sexual abuse 1st degree:contact by forcible compulsion

These were the first ten I clicked on, chosen at random. These are the men you are protecting.

I'm protecting men who supposedly paid their debt to society. If they haven't, then hold them, but if they have, it's time to leave them alone. You'd be quite literally beating a dead horse before long.

/Also believes in letting ex-cons vote.
//And letting them have guns.
///"And earthly power doth then show likest God's, When mercy seasons justice."


You mean figuratively.
 
2012-04-06 09:07:36 PM

Tommy Moo: doglover: Tommy Moo: "The sex offender registry is mostly full of harmless people."

I don't care if it's only full of rapists. Murder is worse than all other crimes except maybe high treason and yet we don't have a "murders' registry" or rules about murders that make it impossible for them to join normal society again.

What about shop lifters? Rape is relatively rare, kiddy diddlin' too. But shoplifting! Hell, most people have done that. It would save the economy billions to know who the frequent lifters are and bar them from offline stores.

But we don't. The only reason we have a "sex" offender registry is that it's an emotional issue. Yes it causes some damage, but the damage it causes is 10000 less than the emotions it raises. It makes me physically ill to think that there's a person in my town who sent a dirty email to someone under 18 (probably 17) and now they're on a list with their legal name and address on it but if my other neighbors have killed people and served their time in prison I wouldn't know about it. That's insane to the point of ridiculousness.

We have a sex offender registry because, statistically, it has a higher recidivism rate than other crimes. People sometimes make the point that "They have already paid their debt to society. It's double jeopardy to make them continue to answer to the law after they get out of jail." To this argument I say that the registration is a part of the sentence. They haven't finished paying their debt. The sentence was three years in jail (or whatever) plus ten years on the sex offender registry. If you like we could make it 13 years in jail. It's just like parole. It's a way to let people out without giving them the full sentence, but also without simply turning them loose unaccounted for to run amok.


Is there a registry of parolees who have committed any other type of offense?

JeffMD: There is no way in hell this happened. NO game companies do background checks, they don't even have a check box for if you have ever been convicted of a crime. They don't care. They want your money.


They probably do, at most, an automated check of name/address against the registry. They probably only do it so they can say "we keep your kids safe" and edge out the competition for the extremely paranoid helicopter parent dollar.

/That's a big dollar
 
2012-04-06 09:14:16 PM

Tommy Moo: doglover: Tommy Moo: "The sex offender registry is mostly full of harmless people."

I don't care if it's only full of rapists. Murder is worse than all other crimes except maybe high treason and yet we don't have a "murders' registry" or rules about murders that make it impossible for them to join normal society again.

What about shop lifters? Rape is relatively rare, kiddy diddlin' too. But shoplifting! Hell, most people have done that. It would save the economy billions to know who the frequent lifters are and bar them from offline stores.

But we don't. The only reason we have a "sex" offender registry is that it's an emotional issue. Yes it causes some damage, but the damage it causes is 10000 less than the emotions it raises. It makes me physically ill to think that there's a person in my town who sent a dirty email to someone under 18 (probably 17) and now they're on a list with their legal name and address on it but if my other neighbors have killed people and served their time in prison I wouldn't know about it. That's insane to the point of ridiculousness.

We have a sex offender registry because, statistically, it has a higher recidivism rate than other crimes. People sometimes make the point that "They have already paid their debt to society. It's double jeopardy to make them continue to answer to the law after they get out of jail." To this argument I say that the registration is a part of the sentence. They haven't finished paying their debt. The sentence was three years in jail (or whatever) plus ten years on the sex offender registry. If you like we could make it 13 years in jail. It's just like parole. It's a way to let people out without giving them the full sentence, but also without simply turning them loose unaccounted for to run amok.


Except it doesn't. that lie gets repeated again and again by legislators in order to push their laws.

From this WSJ article:Ref 1 (new window)
"Meanwhile, the existing research raises tough questions about the relative danger child molesters pose to society. Their likelihood of being convicted for a crime after release is much lower than average for all criminals released from prison, and even for all sex offenders, at least in the short term, as measured by a Bureau of Justice Statistics study and others."

From NY Times: Ref 2 (new window)
It is ''a folk belief,'' said Frank Zimring, a law professor at the University of California at Berkeley. ''The recidivism rates of child molesters are lower than in other crimes,'' he said. ''They are in the teens or twenties, depending on how long you follow up.''
 
2012-04-06 09:19:06 PM

Tommy Moo: To this argument I say that the registration is a part of the sentence. They haven't finished paying their debt.



The original point was that sex crimes are not the only crimes that get you on the list, and that's true, which makes your original position that the list is all rapists etc indefensible. Your second point here is that sex criminals (and we've established they're not the only ones on the list) haven't paid their debt after jail. But murderers, arsonists, and mob bosses all have done so. How can misdemeanors require lifetime of punishment but felonies only a fine and stay in Club Fed? This makes your second position indefensible as well.

All you really want to do is have power over some group of people and you choose to accept a broken system like the sex offender registries because it stirs up good angry emotions in you. So good in fact, that you're not willing to remember the very FOUNDATION of our legal system, the constitution, was penned by people who agreed "it is better that 100 guilty persons go free than one innocent suffer" or at least didn't stop Franklin for setting things up that way. Putting misdemeanors onto a list for life doesn't fit that sentiment well at all.
 
2012-04-06 09:30:15 PM

doglover: "it is better that 100 guilty persons go free than one innocent suffer"


I don't like this quote at all. It is simple minded. You have to consider the costs to society when you make either decision. If you put one innocent man in jail for the rest of his life, one life has been destroyed unjustly. If you let 100 guilty murderers go, and even 10% of them go on to commit murder again on account of not being locked up, ten lives have been destroyed unjustly. We weigh pot odds constantly when we make decisions. It is actually the only reasonable way to live.

I really can't follow anything you're talking about in the first paragraph. We haven't "established" that non-sex crimes can get you on the list; you are simply asserting that. I haven't conceded it. Also, you should know, it's rarely a "lifetime of punishment." Most sex offenders serve a term on the list, often of ten years. Lifetime registry is reserved for the most heinous offenses.
 
2012-04-06 09:37:06 PM

Tommy Moo: doglover: "it is better that 100 guilty persons go free than one innocent suffer"

I don't like this quote at all. It is simple minded. You have to consider the costs to society when you make either decision. If you put one innocent man in jail for the rest of his life, one life has been destroyed unjustly. If you let 100 guilty murderers go, and even 10% of them go on to commit murder again on account of not being locked up, ten lives have been destroyed unjustly. We weigh pot odds constantly when we make decisions. It is actually the only reasonable way to live.

I really can't follow anything you're talking about in the first paragraph. We haven't "established" that non-sex crimes can get you on the list; you are simply asserting that. I haven't conceded it. Also, you should know, it's rarely a "lifetime of punishment." Most sex offenders serve a term on the list, often of ten years. Lifetime registry is reserved for the most heinous offenses.


From the NY State CJS: Ref 1 (new window)

Level 1 offenders (low risk) must register for 20 years, unless they have a designation (e.g. sexual predator, sexually violent offender, or predicate sex offender) in which case they must register for life. Level 2 offenders (moderate risk) and Level 3 offenders (high risk) must register for life.

More Info: Ref 2 (new window)
 
2012-04-06 09:49:19 PM
Interestingly, I checked out the NYS registry and whiel they don't have aggregate statistics there or any way to count all "Level 1" offendors, I checked out Albany and of the first 45 people listed, there were no level 1 offenders, they are all on it for life.
 
2012-04-06 10:18:49 PM

MomUdLikeToFark: Can we keep in mind that they may be using these video game sites to find victims? and even if he isn't, I sure don't want them regularly speaking to/playing with any child i know...do you?


Yikes, that's some serious begging of the question you've got going on there.

Bad assumption 1: All sex offenders are after children
Bad assumption 2: All sex offenders are at high risk of re-offending

Neither of these things are true.

Some guy who stalks and rapes his ex-girlfriend is truly scum, yes. And given the type of personality that controls and commits violence on someone he 'loves' he will probably do it again. The value of 'keeping him away from children' in a virtual environment - nil.

Take your pills and calm down, woman. For all you know the guy next door got drunk as a young man and screwed a drunk and unable to resist co-ed but never got in trouble for it. He could be an obsessive collector of child porn. He could have a rape dungeon. Think about THAT the next time you let your little precious daughter smile and wave at the nice man.

/Your post is so 'think of the snowflakes' it must be a troll
 
2012-04-06 11:39:54 PM
While do child murders not need to register but diddlers do? Why do we Americans consider child molesters people that need to be tracked for life and yet we let child murders roam around anonymous and unsupervised after they complete their sentence?

There are good reasons they kicked the Puritans out of England.
 
2012-04-06 11:40:43 PM

AlwaysRightBoy: they shouldn't be let out of prison in the first place?

I have a good friend who was a lieutenant in the NJ prison system, he worked at Avenel (the sex crimes prison) for 15 years and he said the same thing.

/he's had some real crazy stories about working there


go on . . .
 
2012-04-06 11:46:37 PM
All Americans aged 17 and younger should be issued handguns to protect them from sex offenders.

PROBLEM SOLVED.
 
2012-04-07 12:31:17 AM

Tommy Moo: My zip code is 14623. The first ten random people within two miles of me are guilty of:

sexual abuse-1st degree
attempted criminal sex act-2: oral/anal sex-actor 18 yrs or more/victim under 15
rape 3rd degree
sodomy 3: actor 21 or more has deviate intercourse w/person under 17
sodomy-1st degree
sexual abuse-1st degree
course of sexual conduct against child 2nd:two or more acts/child sexual abuse-1st degree
sexual abuse-2nd degree
sexual abuse 1st degree:contact by forcible compulsion

These were the first ten I clicked on, chosen at random. These are the men you are protecting.


The fact that sodomy is a crime at all, much less something that gets you permanently placed on a sex offender list, tells me that the system is seriously broken. As far as I'm concerned, your example just disproved your point.
 
2012-04-07 01:03:27 AM

Tommy Moo: LoneWolf343: Idiot.

You don't have a citation. I win. Go jerk off to naked children, you sick fark.


Anybody else think that Tommy here doth protest too much?
 
2012-04-07 01:21:58 AM
When I do searches in areas near me about 90% are labeled as "lewd and lascivious acts. " Although one creepily said "forced entry-foreign object"
 
2012-04-07 01:32:37 AM

Tommy Moo: You don't have a citation. I win. Go jerk off to naked children, you sick fark.


See, you're sort of reasonable until you imply that everyone who disagrees with you is a pedophile.

/Consider that for next time.
 
2012-04-07 01:50:30 AM

ciberido: Tommy Moo: My zip code is 14623. The first ten random people within two miles of me are guilty of:

sexual abuse-1st degree
attempted criminal sex act-2: oral/anal sex-actor 18 yrs or more/victim under 15
rape 3rd degree
sodomy 3: actor 21 or more has deviate intercourse w/person under 17
sodomy-1st degree
sexual abuse-1st degree
course of sexual conduct against child 2nd:two or more acts/child sexual abuse-1st degree
sexual abuse-2nd degree
sexual abuse 1st degree:contact by forcible compulsion

These were the first ten I clicked on, chosen at random. These are the men you are protecting.

The fact that sodomy is a crime at all, much less something that gets you permanently placed on a sex offender list, tells me that the system is seriously broken. As far as I'm concerned, your example just disproved your point.


It's not a crime between consenting adults. 2nd degree is where the victim is a minor. 1st degree is where the victim is under 13.
 
2012-04-07 02:06:16 AM

ciberido: Tommy Moo: My zip code is 14623. The first ten random people within two miles of me are guilty of:

sexual abuse-1st degree
attempted criminal sex act-2: oral/anal sex-actor 18 yrs or more/victim under 15
rape 3rd degree
sodomy 3: actor 21 or more has deviate intercourse w/person under 17
sodomy-1st degree
sexual abuse-1st degree
course of sexual conduct against child 2nd:two or more acts/child sexual abuse-1st degree
sexual abuse-2nd degree
sexual abuse 1st degree:contact by forcible compulsion

These were the first ten I clicked on, chosen at random. These are the men you are protecting.

The fact that sodomy is a crime at all, much less something that gets you permanently placed on a sex offender list, tells me that the system is seriously broken. As far as I'm concerned, your example just disproved your point.


For some reason, "rape" is vaginal penetration in legalese. "Sodomy" here refers to the act that normal people would call raping an underage boy.
 
2012-04-07 04:00:31 AM

Tommy Moo: ciberido: Tommy Moo: My zip code is 14623. The first ten random people within two miles of me are guilty of:

sexual abuse-1st degree
attempted criminal sex act-2: oral/anal sex-actor 18 yrs or more/victim under 15
rape 3rd degree
sodomy 3: actor 21 or more has deviate intercourse w/person under 17
sodomy-1st degree
sexual abuse-1st degree
course of sexual conduct against child 2nd:two or more acts/child sexual abuse-1st degree
sexual abuse-2nd degree
sexual abuse 1st degree:contact by forcible compulsion

These were the first ten I clicked on, chosen at random. These are the men you are protecting.

The fact that sodomy is a crime at all, much less something that gets you permanently placed on a sex offender list, tells me that the system is seriously broken. As far as I'm concerned, your example just disproved your point.

For some reason, "rape" is vaginal penetration in legalese. "Sodomy" here refers to the act that normal people would call raping an underage boy.


Sodomy legally means anything thats not penis to vagina. consensual Blow job= sodomy,consensual licking a vagina = sodomy, consensual mutual masturbation= sodomy. Those are all things that can get you on a sex offender list in a few states even if both parties are 18+ and yes you could be labeled a 'sex offender' in at least 13 states for public urination
 
2012-04-07 05:23:39 AM
"We must ensure that on-line video-game systems do not become a digital playground for predators," said Schneiderman.

The whole farking internet is a digital playground. That's pretty much what it was designed to be. We better just turn it off.
 
2012-04-07 08:35:42 AM

Phoenix_M: Sodomy legally means anything thats not penis to vagina. consensual Blow job= sodomy,consensual licking a vagina = sodomy, consensual mutual masturbation= sodomy. Those are all things that can get you on a sex offender list in a few states even if both parties are 18+ and yes you could be labeled a 'sex offender' in at least 13 states for public urination


I quit. Please read the thread.
 
2012-04-07 09:12:00 AM

ciberido: The fact that sodomy is a crime at all, much less something that gets you permanently placed on a sex offender list, tells me that the system is seriously broken. As far as I'm concerned, your example just disproved your point.


JWideman: It's not a crime between consenting adults. 2nd degree is where the victim is a minor. 1st degree is where the victim is under 13.


Tommy Moo: For some reason, "rape" is vaginal penetration in legalese. "Sodomy" here refers to the act that normal people would call raping an underage boy.


Thank you both; that's good to know.

However, even if the law were completely devoid of homophobia (which I doubt), it's still troubling that the rape of a 15-year-old boy is somehow a different crime than the rape of a 15-year-old girl. While it might arguably make for aggravating circumstances, the law should absolutely not be based on which sex organs and which orifices were involved. If person A rapes person B, whether B is male or female (or for that matter, whether A is male or female) should not be the primary consideration.

But that's one of the things you see on Fark in any underage rape thread:

27-year-old man rapes 14-year-old girl: "Oh, that's horrible!"
27-year-old woman rapes 14-year-old boy: "What a lucky kid!"
 
2012-04-07 09:33:34 AM

ciberido: ciberido: The fact that sodomy is a crime at all, much less something that gets you permanently placed on a sex offender list, tells me that the system is seriously broken. As far as I'm concerned, your example just disproved your point.

JWideman: It's not a crime between consenting adults. 2nd degree is where the victim is a minor. 1st degree is where the victim is under 13.

Tommy Moo: For some reason, "rape" is vaginal penetration in legalese. "Sodomy" here refers to the act that normal people would call raping an underage boy.

Thank you both; that's good to know.

However, even if the law were completely devoid of homophobia (which I doubt), it's still troubling that the rape of a 15-year-old boy is somehow a different crime than the rape of a 15-year-old girl. While it might arguably make for aggravating circumstances, the law should absolutely not be based on which sex organs and which orifices were involved. If person A rapes person B, whether B is male or female (or for that matter, whether A is male or female) should not be the primary consideration.

But that's one of the things you see on Fark in any underage rape thread:

27-year-old man rapes 14-year-old girl: "Oh, that's horrible!"
27-year-old woman rapes 14-year-old boy: "What a lucky kid!"


Well, you're right. The law does have homophobic origins, and up until the early 1980s in New York, it was used to prosecute homosexuals. It was never used to prosecute heterosexuals, which was the basis of challenging it.
Also, it doesn't matter what gender the victim is, and the label is just a technical distinction - there's no difference in how rape and sodomy are treated in the law.
 
2012-04-07 10:19:10 AM
Not defending any kiddie diddlers, etc. but....

Wouldn't this be ex post facto punishment?
 
2012-04-08 04:15:38 PM

i.r.id10t: Not defending any kiddie diddlers, etc. but....

Wouldn't this be ex post facto punishment?


No.

Ex post facto is when someone is prosecuted for performing an illegal act which was not illegal at the time the act was performed.

Say someone is walking around wearing a polka-dot kilt with matching bow tie today, and his town passes a law against wearing polka-dotted kilts and bow ties tomorrow. If he gets arrested on Tuesday for violating the anti-polka-dot law, that's ex post facto (and that law would get struck down as unconstitutional because of the 1st Amendment anyway, unless it happened in the deep south or NYC and the arresting officer(s) used that law to arrest the guy for Existing While Non-White)
 
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