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(PC Magazine)   To his dying day, Steve Jobs absolutely hated Google for allegedly copying iPhone technology verbatim during Android development   (pcmag.com) divider line 138
    More: Interesting, iPhone, Google, Android, Walter Isaacson, Annie Hall, Royal Institute of Technology, graphical user interfaces, atomic warfare  
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4600 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Apr 2012 at 10:38 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-06 03:28:37 PM

Theaetetus: vpb: Apple has never done anything but take other peoples ideas, improve them and claim them as an original Apple idea.

I had a Windows CE phone long before Apple got into the phone business, and there were mp3 players long before there was an iPod.

I keep seeing this thought expressed. Frankly, it's retarded. No one is claiming that Apple invented portable music players, and claiming that the pre-existence of other players before Apple somehow means that Apple had no new ideas is like saying there haven't been any advances in automobiles since the 1890s. Tell that to Tesla. Hell, tell that to Toyota.

Apple didn't build the first mousetrap. They just built a better one, which is why the world beat a path to their door.


and yet people keep saying mp3 players and tablets were popular before Apple refined them and made them desirable.

/they weren't
 
2012-04-06 03:30:48 PM

Theaetetus: Jim_Callahan: Apple managed to grab dominance in the MP3 player market as CDs went out with a marketing tactic, not any particular refinement to the product.

You apparently don't remember MP3 players in the 90s, and the convoluted steps you had to go through to generate or manage playlists, like manually creating a directory structure and renaming files to ensure they play in order.


www.anythingbutipod.com

you mean you didn't LOVE this thing????
 
2012-04-06 03:30:49 PM

frepnog: and none of those things were very popular before Apple refined the shiat out of them and made them things people actually wanted to own and use.


You obviously don't know people in business or IT. Crackberries are called that for a reason. Phones based off the palm OS were around and popular with techs for quite awhile.

The company I worked at at the time the iphone came out were on their 3rd generation of tablets.
 
2012-04-06 03:34:57 PM

mjbok: frepnog: and none of those things were very popular before Apple refined the shiat out of them and made them things people actually wanted to own and use.

You obviously don't know people in business or IT. Crackberries are called that for a reason. Phones based off the palm OS were around and popular with techs for quite awhile.


I know them well... I had a Palm, and even had a Palm-based smartphone. But frep's right - while IT had them, and while some businesses made employees carry crackberries, the vast majority of people had things like these:
thirdrailmobility.com
 
2012-04-06 03:37:02 PM

mjbok: frepnog: and none of those things were very popular before Apple refined the shiat out of them and made them things people actually wanted to own and use.

You obviously don't know people in business or IT. Crackberries are called that for a reason. Phones based off the palm OS were around and popular with techs for quite awhile.

The company I worked at at the time the iphone came out were on their 3rd generation of tablets.


business people used the Blackberry. Regular people rarely had one. I wouldn't call that "popular". It would be like saying Windows 2000 was "popular". The iPhone turned smartphones into something regular people wanted, and Google copied the iOs interface verbatim. Same thing with tablets. Old windows tablets suck and few outside of medical communities used them or were even aware that they existed. No one walked into a PC store and bought the hot new HP Windows tablet.

Hell, I'll admit it - when the iPad first released, I saw no real market for it and predicted abject failure, as did most industry pundits.

Seems I was very very wrong. I absolutely LOVE my Nook Color, but I don't pretend that if the iPad had not been successful that it (the nook) would even exist.
 
2012-04-06 03:42:08 PM

Theaetetus: mjbok: frepnog: and none of those things were very popular before Apple refined the shiat out of them and made them things people actually wanted to own and use.

You obviously don't know people in business or IT. Crackberries are called that for a reason. Phones based off the palm OS were around and popular with techs for quite awhile.

I know them well... I had a Palm, and even had a Palm-based smartphone. But frep's right - while IT had them, and while some businesses made employees carry crackberries, the vast majority of people had things like these:
[thirdrailmobility.com image 500x313]


yep. working in this industry for close to 20 years gives me at least some insight to this stuff. Apple made these things (mp3 players, smartphones, tablets) useful and desirable to regular people. Without their products, tablets would still be something few knew existed, Verizon and AT&T would still be pushing the new RAZR fliphone NOW WITH MORE TEXTING and the music industry would have had mp3 players banned altogether or simply so DRM heavy that no one would bother. Microsoft PlaysForSure? Oh please.

Thanks, Apple.
 
2012-04-06 03:51:27 PM

frepnog: Hell, I'll admit it - when the iPad first released, I saw no real market for it and predicted abject failure, as did most industry pundits.


That I can agree with you on. I called it a solution looking for a problem. It (and other tablets) are great consumption devices, but doing work well for interaction (typing), and are more for passive surfing.

frepnog: The iPhone turned smartphones into something regular people wanted, and Google copied the iOs interface verbatim.


The first part of that statement is true, the second isn't. Just like apple/Xerox, iOS/Android. My first android could do things iPhones couldn't do at the time. It took an existing product and improved on it.

If you look at smart phones that predated the iPhone, most if not all of the functionality was there, just slightly differently. Icon based home screen, touch interface, data integration. All were available. What apple did is they had the marketing and consumer awareness behind them. It's the difference between evolutionary and revolutionary. The original GUI was revolutionary, nothing like it existed before. Refinements and improvements are evolutionary. Just because the first people heard about it was from apple, doesn't give them the right to say people who are doing the exact same thing are in the wrong when they did it previously.

There are still things that ipods can't do that other mp3 players can. The first mp3 player that I had could do video was released in March of 2004. The first ipod that could play video was released in October of 2005. The one released earlier had wider codec support, but wasn't released by apple so few people knew about it.
 
2012-04-06 03:55:38 PM

mjbok: frepnog: Hell, I'll admit it - when the iPad first released, I saw no real market for it and predicted abject failure, as did most industry pundits.

That I can agree with you on. I called it a solution looking for a problem. It (and other tablets) are great consumption devices, but doing work well for interaction (typing), and are more for passive surfing.

frepnog: The iPhone turned smartphones into something regular people wanted, and Google copied the iOs interface verbatim.

The first part of that statement is true, the second isn't. Just like apple/Xerox, iOS/Android. My first android could do things iPhones couldn't do at the time. It took an existing product and improved on it.

If you look at smart phones that predated the iPhone, most if not all of the functionality was there, just slightly differently. Icon based home screen, touch interface, data integration. All were available. What apple did is they had the marketing and consumer awareness behind them. It's the difference between evolutionary and revolutionary. The original GUI was revolutionary, nothing like it existed before. Refinements and improvements are evolutionary. Just because the first people heard about it was from apple, doesn't give them the right to say people who are doing the exact same thing are in the wrong when they did it previously.

There are still things that ipods can't do that other mp3 players can. The first mp3 player that I had could do video was released in March of 2004. The first ipod that could play video was released in October of 2005. The one released earlier had wider codec support, but wasn't released by apple so few people knew about it.


what was happening behind the scenes really doesn't matter that much. I had an iPod touch a full year before the Motorola Droid released. At first glance, the Android interface damn near exactly apes the iOs interface. I mean chinese knock off level sameness. It is no wonder Jobs was so pissed.

I do wish my iPod would play FLAC files, tho. My HTC Incredible does that just fine.
 
2012-04-06 03:57:59 PM

justtray: The small penis complex that Android users seem to carry around with them everywhere makes me lulz immensely.


Typical Android Users:
Independent techies, don't care much about overpriced Apple products nor their dorky fanboi following. Also not overly impressed with Droids nor iphones. While not working, these users can typically be found drinking beer in a local bar.

Typical Apple Users:
Smug, actually worry about what non-apple users are purchasing. They also invariably support Mumia Abu-Jamal since it sounds like "the place" to be seen while traveling through the middle east.

This species of tech user often tend to occupy Starbucks where they order feminine European coffee drinks and talk about what types of shoe would go well with their lime colored Prius.
 
2012-04-06 04:13:21 PM

mjbok: That I can agree with you on. I called it a solution looking for a problem. It (and other tablets) are great consumption devices, but doing work well for interaction (typing), and are more for passive surfing.


I agree, I wouldn't type a novel or code a project on an iPad, but you know what? Most people do passive surfing. And frankly, for those people, an iPad is a better computing device than a laptop or desktop, due to the battery life, instant-on, cellular data without needing a USB stick, etc.

What apple did is they had the marketing and consumer awareness behind them.

I think that minimizes the value of good aesthetic design, and unintentionally (or intentionally) insults most consumers. It's tough to convince consumers that your platform is better when you're simultaneously calling them sheep who are taken in by nothing more than a black turtleneck and a shiny case. It also ignores the fact that aesthetic design is a major part of the user experience - which is one of the reasons why Linux has never gotten off the ground with the majority of the population. It's better designed, more powerful in many ways... and looks like shiat. And for people who don't understand or need that power but want a pleasing experience, telling them they're stupid sheeple isn't going to make them rush out and download a new distro.

It's odd, too, because most geeks readily admit loving good industrial design and aesthetics... where computers aren't concerned. Who doesn't love a sweet looking sports car or a fancy watch?

There are still things that ipods can't do that other mp3 players can. The first mp3 player that I had could do video was released in March of 2004. The first ipod that could play video was released in October of 2005. The one released earlier had wider codec support, but wasn't released by apple so few people knew about it.

See above about power. Most people don't watch videos on their MP3 players. It's like these:
upload.wikimedia.org
They could do things that no other watches could. And hardly anyone bought them, because hardly anyone wanted those things.
 
2012-04-06 04:14:39 PM

lohphat: jakrabit: It it's ironic, considering this quote:

"I don't care about being right, I just care about success" -Steve Jobs

You'd think he would have admired 'em for it.

If Steve Jobs cares about success, he'd not have developed a triple monopoly.

1. Apple OS can only run on Apple hardware.
2. Apple hardware can only be made by Apple.
3. Most Apple hardware can only be used legally via Apple software store -- which blocks apps it doesn't like or threatens its business,

Jobs didn't want success -- he wanted CONTROL.


koder: If they'd have opened iOS to be licensed by other manufacturers, Android probably would not have stood a chance; it'd have been the linux to windows.


What most people tend to forget is; Apple is a hardware company. iOS and OS X were developed to run on the hardware Apple produces. There was a time when Apple did license clone machines, and it just about killed the company.
 
2012-04-06 04:15:28 PM

Wook: justtray: The small penis complex that Android users seem to carry around with them everywhere makes me lulz immensely.

Typical Android Users:
Independent techies, don't care much about overpriced Apple products nor their dorky fanboi following. Also not overly impressed with Droids nor iphones. While not working, these users can typically be found drinking beer in a local bar.

Typical Apple Users:
Smug, actually worry about what non-apple users are purchasing. They also invariably support Mumia Abu-Jamal since it sounds like "the place" to be seen while traveling through the middle east.

This species of tech user often tend to occupy Starbucks where they order feminine European coffee drinks and talk about what types of shoe would go well with their lime colored Prius.


Gosh, with evangelists like you, I'm surprised every Apple user hasn't switched to Android. What could you be doing wrong? Oooh, I know! Call them "lusers". That alone will probably cause Apple's stock to drop 5%.
 
2012-04-06 04:21:36 PM

Theaetetus: Wook: justtray: The small penis complex that Android users seem to carry around with them everywhere makes me lulz immensely.

Typical Android Users:
Independent techies, don't care much about overpriced Apple products nor their dorky fanboi following. Also not overly impressed with Droids nor iphones. While not working, these users can typically be found drinking beer in a local bar.

Typical Apple Users:
Smug, actually worry about what non-apple users are purchasing. They also invariably support Mumia Abu-Jamal since it sounds like "the place" to be seen while traveling through the middle east.

This species of tech user often tend to occupy Starbucks where they order feminine European coffee drinks and talk about what types of shoe would go well with their lime colored Prius.

Gosh, with evangelists like you, I'm surprised every Apple user hasn't switched to Android. What could you be doing wrong? Oooh, I know! Call them "lusers". That alone will probably cause Apple's stock to drop 5%.

 
2012-04-06 04:31:45 PM

Wook: justtray:

actually worry about what non-apple users are purchasing.


I hate apple users, they hate everything that's not apple. I hate them for that so much.
 
2012-04-06 04:34:25 PM

justtray: The small penis complex that Android users seem to carry around with them everywhere makes me lulz immensely.


Yeah, it's Android users that have a complex. Keep telling yourself that.
 
2012-04-06 04:36:41 PM

Nem Wan: Apple did not steal from Xerox


The differences between iOS and Android are at least as great as the differences between Smalltalk and MacOS.
 
2012-04-06 04:57:53 PM

Theaetetus: mjbok: frepnog: and none of those things were very popular before Apple refined the shiat out of them and made them things people actually wanted to own and use.

You obviously don't know people in business or IT. Crackberries are called that for a reason. Phones based off the palm OS were around and popular with techs for quite awhile.

I know them well... I had a Palm, and even had a Palm-based smartphone. But frep's right - while IT had them, and while some businesses made employees carry crackberries, the vast majority of people had things like these:
[thirdrailmobility.com image 500x313]


No they didn't. What a farking little liar you are.

In August 2004 this phone came out and sold gangbusters:

sattlers.org

By the time the iPhone came out in June 2007, the RZOR was already old news and you're saying people had farking Nokia bricks from 2000 as their cellphones?

Get real.
 
2012-04-06 05:04:14 PM

HeartBurnKid: justtray: The small penis complex that Android users seem to carry around with them everywhere makes me lulz immensely.

Yeah, it's Android users that have a complex. Keep telling yourself that.


Heh.

"Dude, you're a barrista." (new window)
 
2012-04-06 05:18:51 PM

HeartBurnKid: The differences between iOS and Android are at least as great as the differences between Smalltalk and MacOS.


I just wanted to say that SmallTalk was awesome and way head of it's time. It's a shame that there are so few people in the industry who have even heard of SmallTalk much less ever developed with it. So far ahead of it's time.
 
2012-04-06 06:02:37 PM

Thrag: I just wanted to say that SmallTalk was awesome and way head of it's time. It's a shame that there are so few people in the industry who have even heard of SmallTalk much less ever developed with it. So far ahead of it's time.


SmallTalk had some good ideas (obviously) but it's a toy language. I mean, it doesn't even support "else if."
 
2012-04-06 06:05:13 PM

frepnog: koder: frepnog:
yeah, I am sure they are crying about their "mistake" all the way to the farking bank.

0_o

Well, I mean, don't get me wrong: it's not like they're failing (they're fiscally "banking it"), but all things considered, when Android and iOS each have 50% market share, with Android actually growing over that, combined with the fact that app developers now build for both platforms, it'll prove to be a mistake in less than a few years.

I'm simply saying that they could have had a 80-90% market share (like Microsoft has in the desktop OS market) had they not made the same mistake twice.

i dunno man. if you buy an iphone, you are getting.... an iphone. if you buy an android device... you might get a good one (my incredible is awesome) or you might get a piece of junk that seems slow, buggy, cheap and just crappy all around, souring you on the android experience and turning you into a potential apple customer since after using a smart phone you certainly don't want to go back to some old LG flip phone.



Steve Jobs: We're better than you are! We have better stuff.
Bill Gates: You don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter!
Pirates of Silicon Valley (1999)
 
2012-04-06 06:08:53 PM

frepnog: machoprogrammer: Asides from the Xerox thing, Apple stole: iPad (tablets existed way before the iPad), iPod (mp3 players existed WAY before the iPod) and the iPhone (smartphones have been around for a long time). Ironic tag would've been more appropriate.

and none of those things were very popular before Apple refined the shiat out of them and made them things people actually wanted to own and use.


That still doesn't invalidate the fact that Apple didn't come up with those ideas. Apple hates Android for doing what Apple themselves have done for years.

Apple succeeded because they created an awesome experience for the user. Android succeeded because they created an awesome experience for all the users that haven't tried Apple or decided that the Android experience was superior to Apple. And yet Apple is butthurt enough to bully their competitors with lawsuits.
 
2012-04-06 06:52:02 PM

GameSprocket: Is anyone else really getting sick of Walter Isaacson caliming milking his book? Every time there is a story about what Apple should do or what it will be coming out with, the magazine writers flock around this guy.

I don't believe that Jobs actually showed off future products to this guy (Jobs was not that trusting). And, I don't think that writing a biography about Jobs suddenly makes this guy the oracle of all things Apple.


art.penny-arcade.com
 
2012-04-06 07:16:52 PM

frepnog: At first glance, the Android interface damn near exactly apes the iOs interface


Wow, I didn't see that before. Are you serious? Do you think the iPhone invented icons in a grid or something?

Are you honestly saying this:

2.bp.blogspot.com

is indistinguishable from this:

www.fisherwdesign.com
 
2012-04-06 08:30:15 PM
Xerox had icons. The Mac had manipulatable icons and drag and drop. That's non-trivial innovation. There's no real desktop metaphor without that. There's barely a reason to have a mouse without that -- just arrow-key through the menus and icons.
 
2012-04-06 08:51:31 PM

R Kelly's Doo Doo Butter: taurusowner: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: The Stealth Hippopotamus: And then improving it in was that Apple never thought of.

iOS actually is much smoother then Android OS (any flavor). I'm saying this as a happy Android user. We can do a lot more customization, and have more freedom with our Android devices, but things don't always run as smoothly as we would like.
And when am I going to get ICS on my Galaxy S II?

Steve Jobs was pretty much an asshole.

/Typed on my MacBook Pro

A year or two ago, yes. I've had a Tmobile MyTouch, a Droid X and now a Droid Bionic. The MyTouch and X were laggy and experienced a lot of force closes. But the Bionic has been flawless. I'm not sure if was just hardware catching up, bug fixes in Android or something else. But the Bionic has been as smooth as I could ever hope for.

My Galaxy Nexus runs as smooth as a baby's bottom.


I've got a GNex. iPhone 4S is smoother. Now, I can play with my phone in ways that Apple users can't (and would probably be afraid to). And I do. I had far more form factors to choose from, far more manufacturers, far more everything. iOS places an strong emphasis on the GPU while the GNex has much more powerful CPU. Pick your poison.

/CM9 nightlies FTW
 
2012-04-06 09:48:15 PM
As others have mentioned, Apple didn't invent any of the individual components of the iphone, but they were the first to put them together in a package that had mass consumer appeal. They made the smart phone pretty, but their problem is that they couldn't patent 'pretty phone'. So when Google started making a 'pretty' phone OS a few years Jobs got very butthurt since he felt Apple was first. Though I myself am a very happy Android user and can't stand Apple's 'walled garden' approach to technology, I have to acknowledge that smart phones would not be what they are today without the original iphone. The lawsuits are without merit and show just how egomaniacal Jobs really was, but in spite of that he did make some very real contributions to the market that benefit everyone - even people like me who've never bought an Apple product.
 
2012-04-06 10:06:50 PM

Nem Wan: Apple did not steal from Xerox




Xerox did receive a share of stock in Apple.

If they had not sold, that share would be greater than the net worth of Xerox today.
 
2012-04-06 11:10:58 PM

fnottr: I have to acknowledge that smart phones would not be what they are today without the original iphone.


Computers would not be what they are today if not for Xerox, which is the crux of the xerox/apple apple/android comparison.

Nem Wan: There's barely a reason to have a mouse without that -- just arrow-key through the menus and icons.


This still can be done. You can navigate (at least a PC) desktop without the mouse if you want as long as you have a keyboard.

The idea of drop down menus was stated above as a mac innovation. Pretty much the same idea was available in DOS (through keyboard controls) long before that.
 
2012-04-07 01:22:18 AM
Someone copying tech and profiting? Holy god man. Alert Eddison, he will be intrigued wth the concept.... oh.... wait. Stealing tech and racing to the patent office is as old as patents.
 
2012-04-07 10:25:06 AM

steamingpile:
Yes, but got a deal that was basically stealing since xerox's execs were so shortsighted.


Just because someone negotiates a deal which you or employees of the time feels was one sided does not make it "basically stealing" it simply means that one company dramatically underestimated the worth of it's goods; that's poor business.
 
2012-04-07 12:43:47 PM
Makes sense. I'd venture to say at least half (if not more) of the code would have never been written for the iPhone's OS if it wasn't for their programmers using Google to find the functions they needed or troubleshooting.
 
2012-04-07 01:47:19 PM

justtray: The small penis complex that Android users seem to carry around with them everywhere makes me lulz immensely.


I have no penis therefore you argument is invalid. I also am not managed by iTunes and can upgrade my storage capacity. I think what you're confusing for a penis is justified smugness.

BTW I also don't hate iPhones I just find them inferior after having owned one.
 
2012-04-07 02:46:24 PM
I am posting from my Android so I'm getting a kick out of these replies. Apple dominates for intuitive, no brainer UX, but their constant shilling of proprditary software and hardware is annoying. I hate iTunes and the Apple store, and my Samsung phone isnt made with glass. I'm not a fan of the tiresome field-of-icons style of desktop browse, but better that than choking on the hipster smugness of iCrap users.
 
2012-04-07 06:45:27 PM
Good old confirmation bias strikes again.

I use a crackberry becasue I have no interest in playing games on my phone. I want a phone that can do email, calendaring, and contact management and works internationally.

I have a tmobile data plan that offers unlimited US data and and extra $20 for unlimited international data. It can also be a hotspot for my coworkers when att is saturated. It also offers wifi calling so that when I'm in a remote location but there's wifi, it can tunnel the GSM calls/sms over wifi for no charge. Overseas and on wifi my phone thinks it's in the US and there's no roaming charges.

My iphone friends come home with either huge bills or had to use some SIM swap scheme and forward their US number -- I had to do none of that. My US number just works wherever I am in the world.

I have an iPad (soon to be Nook) or a laptop for real work.
 
2012-04-08 09:42:51 AM

Aracnix: I am posting from my Android so I'm getting a kick out of these replies. Apple dominates for intuitive, no brainer UX, but their constant shilling of proprditary software and hardware is annoying. I hate iTunes and the Apple store, and my Samsung phone isnt made with glass. I'm not a fan of the tiresome field-of-icons style of desktop browse, but better that than choking on the hipster smugness of iCrap users.


Good job.
 
2012-04-08 10:53:57 AM

lohphat: I use a crackberry becasue I have no interest in playing games on my phone. I want a phone that can do email, calendaring, and contact management and works internationally.


This is pretty much my situation.

I have a blackberry because, love it or hate it, it's the best phone for pure communication. Calls, emails, sms, BBM, etc.

Yeah, I don't get fancy Instagram apps, but I want mobile phone, not mobile fun. Especially if I have to pay more for it.
 
2012-04-09 02:12:03 PM
Only one android story on the geek tabs? Without a steady stream of Linux, BSD or GNU news it isn't a true geek section.

/farking posers
 
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