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(The New York Times)   Scientists prove that Jenny McCarthy's children are mutants   (mobile.nytimes.com) divider line 168
    More: Interesting, Jenny McCarthy, Asperger, autism, mutations  
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13233 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2012 at 11:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-06 12:36:25 PM

TheMikey: How prevalent does this have to be before we start seriously examining what we are being fed or what we are drinking?

My bet - once this hits 1 in every 40 kids, the deniers (industry and government) will step aside and everything will be on the table. We are on the way there, with the accelerator to the floor.



Nah. My bet is that very few will care. The surgeon general will care, and a very few exceptional parents will care. But beyond that? No.

The reason is that we already eat shiat that kills us dead or farks up our bodies in numerous deadly ways, and feed it to our children, and no one cares. Though we seem to agree that death is even worse than autism.

People will keep eating it because it tastes good. Doesn't matter how many medical warnings there are. If it tastes good and makes people feel good, people will put it in their mouths. In large quantities.

If we discovered tomorrow that twinkies and McDonald's cheeseburgers cause autism mutations, we'd see a 0.0000005% decrease in twinkie and cheeseburger sales.
 
2012-04-06 12:37:11 PM
I blame TV on the rise in autism. Compare the numbers between 2011 and 1970. We have more TV channels and the number of edits in a typical TV program and movie have increased since then. We now have more cases of autism. The link is clear as day!

Well, either that or it is the lack 8-track tapes. We have fewer 8-track tapes today yet more cases of autism. So there could have been some curative properties to 8-track tapes.

Or global warming. All those baby brains are cooking due to rising global temperatures and that is causing the autism.

Or maybe it is rap music.
 
2012-04-06 12:37:29 PM
KimNorth: BronyMedic: KimNorth: If it is so rare why 1 in 88 have autism?

Because 1 in 88 are on the Autism Spectrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum

Please educate yourself, so this doesn't turn into the embarassment you suffered during the Fluoridation thread.

LMAO, Dude you are such a joke and had your azz handed to you.

Now I know you feel real special riding around in your ambulance acting like your some kind of medical super hero but your coworkers and well everyone thinks your an asshat.

Not our fault you couldn't make it into medical school so please stop torchering us on fark with your I want to feel special and smart douchebaggery.


Aww, sweetie. It'll be okay. I understand that the best you can do is personally insult me when your arguements are shot to hell by facts that take three minutes to find on a google search, but, don't worry. Someone will be in to give your pacifier and tell you the bad people who know more than you are just a fairy tale. You're still the one person who knows the truth in a world of sheeple.

/I...never even.... tried to get into Med school.
 
2012-04-06 12:37:31 PM
Link6049523#c76049523" target="_blank">KimNorth: rage

regretfulmorning.com
 
2012-04-06 12:38:37 PM
And that's what I get for not previewing
 
2012-04-06 12:39:07 PM
i39.tinypic.com

A fairly straightforward deconstruction of the vaccines=autism myth.
 
2012-04-06 12:41:47 PM
I like how anyone who disagrees with the mainstream narrative is immediately labled a troll...

Oh and the age at which procreation occurs is NOT increasing....The US leads the developed world in teen birth rate.
 
2012-04-06 12:45:40 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: [i39.tinypic.com image 200x335]

A fairly straightforward deconstruction of the vaccines=autism myth.


The Lancet retracting the original article because it was complete bullshiat was enough of a deconstruction for me. Link (new window)
 
2012-04-06 12:46:01 PM
McCarthy's defenders need to understand that her stupid obsession with this began when a strange woman embraced her on the street and told Jenny that she was an "Indigo mom", and that her son was a "Crystal child". This caused McCarthy to start looking into some really hippy-dippy ideas, and then draw her own conclusions based on her own need for herself and her child to be "special" rather than "flawed."

Going around calling your mentally undeveloped child a "Crystal Child" is not scientific study; It's denial. She came from a preconceived notion ("My child is not broken; He's exceptional and a victim.") and found a flawed (and falsified) study to back up that idea, rather than approaching the subject objectively and looking at ALL the information. She picked and chose what worked best to support the idea that her kid was a "Crystal Child" and not just the result of a negative mutation.

I loathe this woman simply because she selfishly used her fame to endanger so many people just so she could support her own delusions.

If even a single child died as a result of disease due to her anti-vaccination bullshiat, she's a villain of the highest order.

Evil is hard to define, but selfishness is pretty easy to recognize.
 
2012-04-06 12:46:36 PM
Also, this:

i3.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-06 12:46:38 PM
Wasn't it Pthalates?
No.. wait, it was thimerosol,
No.. that wasn't it.. it was HFCS! ... Wasn't it?
No, maybe it was teflon, yeah! Teflon... no that doesn't sound right.
Aluminum! It must be.. no no..
Power lines!! Its all those power lines...
Crap.. someone help me out here.. I seem to recall that we had this all figured out in the 80s.
 
2012-04-06 12:46:40 PM

Gawdzila: DubyaHater: If vaccines don't cause Autism, why has there been a sharp increase in autism since vaccines were mass produced?

This is what is called "magical thinking" -- assuming a causal relation between things simply because they are temporally proximate. I.e: "I wore this hat and my team won, therefore they won because I wore this hat". Or, "I danced and it rained, therefore this dance causes rain". Your mode of reasoning is no better than, or even functionally different from, superstition.


No, a belief in vaccines causing autism is not really "magical thinking". It's simply specious logic, and delusional thinking. Vaccines logically, scientifically COULD cause autism. It's a plausible hypothesis. The problem is it's been well refuted, and the seminal Wakefield paper on the association was not simply discredited but deemed outright fraudulent.

"Magical thinking" is believing in impossible associations- that a curse could cause bad luck, and killing a chicken could remove the curse. You can attach all sorts of specifics and rules to give it credibility, that the chicken must by killed facing north, your eyes must be closed, and you must should "Oh long johnson" while doing it. But fundamentally the very premise of "luck" is not a possible association.
 
2012-04-06 12:49:01 PM

KimNorth: BronyMedic: KimNorth: If it is so rare why 1 in 88 have autism?

Because 1 in 88 are on the Autism Spectrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum

Please educate yourself, so this doesn't turn into the embarassment you suffered during the Fluoridation thread.

LMAO, Dude you are such a joke and had your azz handed to you.

Now I know you feel real special riding around in your ambulance acting like your some kind of medical super hero but your coworkers and well everyone thinks your an asshat.

Not our fault you couldn't make it into medical school so please stop torchering us on fark with your I want to feel special and smart douchebaggery.


Fark.com. Where the people posting citations are somehow the losers, and the people who make derpy posts demonstrating their inability to understand medical science are the winners, apparently.
 
2012-04-06 12:49:15 PM

UCFRoadWarrior: Would not be surprised this mutation is caused by the vaccines

The real derp with all the autism news is that people believe that all vaccines are 100 percent safe and effective.


Who, specifically, has expressed such a belief?
 
2012-04-06 12:49:15 PM

Swagulus: I like how anyone who disagrees with the mainstream narrative is immediately labled a troll...

Oh and the age at which procreation occurs is NOT increasing....The US leads the developed world in teen birth rate.


So because there are more teens having children, that means there are less women over 40 having babies? Is that what you're trying to insinuate here?

Because, well, that would be a really dumb thing to suggest... Yet you seem to be saying it.
 
2012-04-06 12:53:49 PM

Swagulus: I like how anyone who disagrees with the mainstream narrative is immediately labled a troll...

Oh and the age at which procreation occurs is NOT increasing....The US leads the developed world in teen birth rate.


Well, it helps here that the mainstream media narrative has the backing of the scientific community, whereas those backing the "Autism caused by vaccines" narrative have the scientifically unsubstantiated claims of that Playboy bunny who wasn't ever anywhere as hot as Pam Anderson or Carmen Electra was. I mean, I guess I could see how you anti-vaxxers would be so thoroughly convinced given the credibility of the people espousing your position.

/someone tell me when Sara Underwood finally cures cancer
//and Minka Kelly breaks c
 
2012-04-06 12:55:15 PM

ZeroCorpse: Swagulus: I like how anyone who disagrees with the mainstream narrative is immediately labled a troll...

Oh and the age at which procreation occurs is NOT increasing....The US leads the developed world in teen birth rate.

So because there are more teens having children, that means there are less women over 40 having babies? Is that what you're trying to insinuate here?

Because, well, that would be a really dumb thing to suggest... Yet you seem to be saying it.



I was going to say the same thing. Instead I will just leave this here.
 
2012-04-06 12:59:21 PM
Sorry about not using the new window link.

According to this page (new window) methylmercury has a half-life of 50 days in human blood.
 
2012-04-06 01:00:06 PM

Swagulus: I like how anyone who disagrees with the mainstream narrative is immediately labled a troll...

Oh and the age at which procreation occurs is NOT increasing....The US leads the developed world in teen birth rate.

In 1970, one in 100 births was among women ages 35 and older, compared with one in 12 in 2006


Age At First Childbirth Increasing In U.S., Worldwide, NCHS Report Finds (new window)
 
2012-04-06 01:01:14 PM
I'm perfectly willing to drop the idea that mercury in our environment is causing the rise in things like autism, as long as someone comes up with a more plausible explanation for the dramatic rise. And no, denying the rise is not an intelligent counter argument.

It may not be a perfect explanation, but it's the best we have. Those of you who think you're somehow helping science by denying everything and offering nothing in return are the deluded ones. The goal here should be figuring out what's going on, not ignoring it.
 
2012-04-06 01:03:14 PM
You have to admit that the lady has got a great rack.
 
2012-04-06 01:03:51 PM

Dimensio: UCFRoadWarrior: Would not be surprised this mutation is caused by the vaccines

The real derp with all the autism news is that people believe that all vaccines are 100 percent safe and effective.

Who, specifically, has expressed such a belief?


I think I found a picture of him:

i41.tinypic.com
 
2012-04-06 01:04:35 PM

J. Frank Parnell: I'm perfectly willing to drop the idea that mercury in our environment is causing the rise in things like autism, as long as someone comes up with a more plausible explanation for the dramatic rise.


Are you not even reading the thread?

People are conceiving at later ages (1), and the information about autism is more available and shared locally (2).

#2 is similar to why ADD is "more prevalent" now - you go looking for it and you'll find more of it.
 
2012-04-06 01:05:18 PM

J. Frank Parnell: I'm perfectly willing to drop the idea that mercury in our environment is causing the rise in things like autism, as long as someone comes up with a more plausible explanation for the dramatic rise. And no, denying the rise is not an intelligent counter argument.

It may not be a perfect explanation, but it's the best we have. Those of you who think you're somehow helping science by denying everything and offering nothing in return are the deluded ones. The goal here should be figuring out what's going on, not ignoring it.


"Teams of scientists working independently have for the first time identified several gene mutations that they agree sharply increase the chances that a child will develop autism. They have found further evidence that the risk increases with the age of the parents, particularly in fathers over age 35."

First sentence of the article. There may be other reasons but at least this one has actual evidence.
 
2012-04-06 01:05:39 PM

J. Frank Parnell: It may not be a perfect explanation, but it's the best we have. Those of you who think you're somehow helping science by denying everything and offering nothing in return are the deluded ones.


Occam and Popper disagree.
 
2012-04-06 01:06:33 PM
Those are pretty weak explanations, but i suppose it would be enough for less critical types.
 
2012-04-06 01:07:24 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Those are pretty weak explanations, but i suppose it would be enough for less critical types.


I bet you still blame ice cream sales for summer murder rates.
 
2012-04-06 01:07:32 PM

Swagulus: I like how anyone who disagrees with the mainstream narrative is immediately labled a troll...

Oh and the age at which procreation occurs is NOT increasing....The US leads the developed world in teen birth rate.


Blatantly wrong:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_maternal_age

The part about teen pregnancy 1st world countries is correct though although I doubt you understand why would it doesn't factor much into the average over time
 
2012-04-06 01:08:35 PM

J. Frank Parnell: I'm perfectly willing to drop the idea that mercury in our environment is causing the rise in things like autism, as long as someone comes up with a more plausible explanation for the dramatic rise. And no, denying the rise is not an intelligent counter argument.

It may not be a perfect explanation, but it's the best we have. Those of you who think you're somehow helping science by denying everything and offering nothing in return are the deluded ones. The goal here should be figuring out what's going on, not ignoring it.


Are you completely unaware that the scientific community has expanded the definition of the autistic spectrum to include more phenomena than in decades previously?

Is this Dunning-Kruger or Poe's Law in effect here?
 
2012-04-06 01:09:00 PM
And i even said denying the rise is not an intelligent counter argument right away, and what did you provide? Speculation that the rise is an illusion.
 
2012-04-06 01:09:19 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Those of you who think you're somehow helping science by denying everything and offering nothing in return are the deluded ones.


J. Frank Parnell: Those are pretty weak explanations, but i suppose it would be enough for less critical types.

 
2012-04-06 01:09:28 PM

WillyChase: Swagulus: I like how anyone who disagrees with the mainstream narrative is immediately labled a troll...

Oh and the age at which procreation occurs is NOT increasing....The US leads the developed world in teen birth rate.

Blatantly wrong:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_maternal_age

The part about teen pregnancy 1st world countries is correct though although I doubt you understand why it doesn't factor into the average over time


Ftfm
 
2012-04-06 01:12:23 PM

J. Frank Parnell: And i even said denying the rise is not an intelligent counter argument right away, and what did you provide? Speculation that the rise is an illusion.


That beats speculation that includes the assumption that mercury has magical blood half-life properties in childrenn
 
2012-04-06 01:15:51 PM

TheMikey: My bet - once this hits 1 in every 40 kids, the deniers (industry and government) will step aside and everything will be on the table. We are on the way there, with the accelerator to the floor.


I'm sorry, but by "deniers" do you mean "everyone who pays attention to actual science" or something else?
 
2012-04-06 01:20:40 PM

Fark U: AverageAmericanGuy: Hell, nothing is 100% safe.

/leaving satisfied


stunning logic there. best not to try any harder, you may find something that isn't as satisfying. then you'd have to question your beliefs and that would be weird right?

/still here waiting to be satisfied
 
2012-04-06 01:20:53 PM

BronyMedic: whosits_112: //Thanks for the back up, Brony!

Sorry. I've seen epiglottitis. Actual epiglottits, not a bad case of croup someone panicked over. And I've seen pertussus to the point the child had rib fractures from coughing constantly.

There is no excuse, in this day and age, for a child to get a vaccine preventable disease and not be vaccinated against it.


My sister almost died from Epiglottitis when she was 3 (this is late 80's, so the vaccine wasn't widely used yet). It was a heartbreaking experience trying to keep her calm, she just didn't want that ventilator tube down her throat at all. All of my siblings children have full vaccine records.
 
2012-04-06 01:21:39 PM

J. Frank Parnell: And i even said denying the rise is not an intelligent counter argument right away, and what did you provide? Speculation that the rise is an illusion.


And unlike you, I can provide linkage and citation. (new window)- The Telegraph (UK)
Something from Reuters (new window)
Article specifically on the expanded definition of the Autism disorder spectrum (new window), with this bit of text:
For decades, the diagnosis was given only to kids with severe language and social impairments and unusual, repetitious behaviors.

The definition of autism has gradually expanded, and 'autism' is now shorthand for a group of milder, related conditions, including Asperger's syndrome.

'Doctors have gotten better at diagnosing the condition, and communities have gotten better at providing services for those affected by autism,' Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the CDC, told reporters.


Bear in mind, we've had this thread a million times, if you aren't familiar with this idea at least, then read up and stop pretending to be informed on this subject.
 
2012-04-06 01:23:27 PM

J. Frank Parnell: And i even said denying the rise is not an intelligent counter argument right away, and what did you provide? Speculation that the rise is an illusion.


Just as a comparison - the number of species of insects on the planet doesn't require us to have actually identified every species of insect. As our knowledge-base grows, as more people become interested in documenting insects and studying them and becoming interested in contributing to our understanding of biodiversity and what not, the number of identified species increases while the number of species out there to be identified is not strictly influenced by that interest and activity.

In a similar, but not identical, vain we have a greater number of professionals and experts out there who can diagnose autism and a greater availability of information for the general population to at least have the knowledge that autism is a possibility. Does this mean those things necessarily influence the actual rate of autism? No, it only affects the rates at which we identify people with autism and give them the diagnoses. But we do have some knowledge of the etiology of autism, including genetics (as TFA discusses). You cannot simply dismiss better assessment tools as not truly explaining the rise in autism spectrum diagnoses. The very same thing could be said for every single medical anomaly out there. We are just constantly getting better at detecting and screening and assessing neurological and other medical conditions, whether they be acquired or developmental or whatever.

That said, some autism researchers do think the actual rates are going up, and it's not just simply better diagnostic techniques and more available professionals to diagnose it. Some think that part of it is because of better living conditions for everyone and improved interventions for people with autism, particularly on the high-functioning end, allowing many people with autism to be more involved in society. As a result, we're going to see a rise in autism because, well, the genes that influence development of autism have more opportunities to make it into the future generations. Some high-functioning autistics may themselves be reproducing more, or their genetic relatives (sisters, brothers, etc.) are carrying genes that influence the development of autism and are reproducing, and their kids end up with autism.

I may not have explained that as clearly as I would've liked, but I hope you get the idea. Part of the rise of ASD diagnoses is just simply the improvement of our understanding of the disorder allowing professionals to see it in more people. Part of it may be because more genes related to autism are propagating more, since they carry less of a selection disadvantage now than decades, centuries, or millenia ago.
 
2012-04-06 01:27:20 PM
I have my son in an autism study at a local university. They took blood samples from all of us for just this kind of research. That's awesome that they are making headway.
 
2012-04-06 01:32:40 PM
Levarien: My sister almost died from Epiglottitis when she was 3 (this is late 80's, so the vaccine wasn't widely used yet). It was a heartbreaking experience trying to keep her calm, she just didn't want that ventilator tube down her throat at all. All of my siblings children have full vaccine records.

It's so uncommon now we generally crack jokes when we get dispatched on calls for suspected ones. (Haha, someone wants the croup out of their ER fast.)

This girl, on the other hand, 4 year old in North Mississippi, looked like death chewing on a cracker when we walked in. Flushed face, swollen lymph nodes, dusky skin, 104.3 Fever after motrin/tylenol, dehydrated and sunken looking, and drooling with audible stridor from the doorway.

The RT went to look at the soft tissue X-Ray, and came back with an "Oh shiat" look on her face. We can't do surgical crichs at our service due to the ages we serve, so, the pucker factor could have squeezed out a diamond.

Nebulized Epi, cool mist, IV decadron, and lots of diesel later, she was intubated by EENT using a fiber-optic videoscope and with a trach kit at bedside.
 
2012-04-06 01:35:20 PM

namegoeshere: DubyaHater: If vaccines don't Nutella Kim Kardashian doesn't cause Autism, why has there been a sharp increase in autism since vaccines were Nutella was mass produced Kim Kardashian was born?

FTFY


FTFE
 
2012-04-06 01:49:26 PM

BronyMedic: Levarien: My sister almost died from Epiglottitis when she was 3 (this is late 80's, so the vaccine wasn't widely used yet). It was a heartbreaking experience trying to keep her calm, she just didn't want that ventilator tube down her throat at all. All of my siblings children have full vaccine records.

It's so uncommon now we generally crack jokes when we get dispatched on calls for suspected ones. (Haha, someone wants the croup out of their ER fast.)

This girl, on the other hand, 4 year old in North Mississippi, looked like death chewing on a cracker when we walked in. Flushed face, swollen lymph nodes, dusky skin, 104.3 Fever after motrin/tylenol, dehydrated and sunken looking, and drooling with audible stridor from the doorway.

The RT went to look at the soft tissue X-Ray, and came back with an "Oh shiat" look on her face. We can't do surgical crichs at our service due to the ages we serve, so, the pucker factor could have squeezed out a diamond.

Nebulized Epi, cool mist, IV decadron, and lots of diesel later, she was intubated by EENT using a fiber-optic videoscope and with a trach kit at bedside.


That sounds about what my sister went through. They were close to traching her, but she started responding to the meds just before that decision would have been made. Our parents (she was the youngest of 3, so they know their stuff) said that they didn't notice anything wrong with her, she just was crying in the night, and after the temperature check, Dad booked it to the hospital. It's a pretty insidious illness in that way.
 
2012-04-06 02:01:48 PM

BronyMedic: This text is now purple: Larger issue with whooping cough is that the vaccine immunity period doesn't last as long as we used to think it did.

And the latest research indicated adults should be vaccinated against it as well.


don't suppose you can illustrate who funded that latest bit of research?

/knows i'll get hell for this, cause god help anyone here question the idea that vaccines are safe.
//i mean, there is no way that a company could influence a social agenda for it's own financial gain. that's outlandish and tin foil hat thinking right?
 
2012-04-06 02:12:52 PM
Jenny McCarthy has crotchfruit?

/you never stick your dick anywhere NEAR crazy!
 
2012-04-06 02:38:06 PM

inner ted: BronyMedic: This text is now purple: Larger issue with whooping cough is that the vaccine immunity period doesn't last as long as we used to think it did.

And the latest research indicated adults should be vaccinated against it as well.

don't suppose you can illustrate who funded that latest bit of research?

/knows i'll get hell for this, cause god help anyone here question the idea that vaccines are safe.
//i mean, there is no way that a company could influence a social agenda for it's own financial gain. that's outlandish and tin foil hat thinking right?


Can you show any specific instance where the science is wrong? The methodology was flawed, the measurements were inappropriate, the data wasn't obtained correctly or wasn't the right type of data to obtain, the sample size didn't yield enough statistical power, the statistical analyses run weren't the correct ones, the data doesn't support the conclusions, or so on? If not, then wherever they got the funding is completely irrelevant. If you cannot show how and why the science is wrong, the who and where the money came from do not enter into the equation at all.

Vaccines are not 100% safe because nothing is, but they are safe enough that it is in the interest of everyone for children to get their vaccines. Also, the things that vaccines vaccinate one against are far less safe than the vaccines are. Just to pull hypothetical numbers out of my ass, if you give me the choice between a 1% chance of experiencing any negative side effects of getting a vaccine versus a 10% chance of experiencing any negative effects of not getting vaccinated, I'll take that 1% every time.
 
2012-04-06 02:41:50 PM
The amount of derp in this thread is astounding.
I'd say all the anti-vaccine crowd should found a country somewhere far away from others, though then they would become fair game for nuking from orbit as they would be a threat to the rest of humanity.
 
2012-04-06 02:47:39 PM

Bartleby the Scrivener: Meh. Get back to me when you can diagnose the disease on an objective biological test instead of off a chart that is like the build a burger menu at fuddruckers.


By that standard, you would need a DNA test to determine if you have the flu.
 
2012-04-06 02:48:53 PM

inner ted: BronyMedic: This text is now purple: Larger issue with whooping cough is that the vaccine immunity period doesn't last as long as we used to think it did.

And the latest research indicated adults should be vaccinated against it as well.

don't suppose you can illustrate who funded that latest bit of research?

/knows i'll get hell for this, cause god help anyone here question the idea that vaccines are safe.
//i mean, there is no way that a company could influence a social agenda for it's own financial gain. that's outlandish and tin foil hat thinking right?


Nice conspiracy theory. Of course, it has been known for over 2 decades that pertussis vaccinations weren't good for over 20 years (that number is down to around 7 now), but with the high rate of uptake in the general populace along with a lower population density, the outbreaks were always minor. With population density increasing and vaccine uptake by the populace decreasing, well, it becomes more apparent that pertussis vaccinations have to be increased.

Want to know how much "Big Pharma" makes on a pertussis shot? Almost nothing, same as they make on almost all vaccinations that are over 7-10 years past development. Your cock-pills are worth far more.
 
2012-04-06 02:56:10 PM

cgraves67: So vaccinations cause mutations then? Scary.


Technically, yes. The vaccines that you receive cause mutations in your children. (One of the reasons older men are more likely to pass on autism is that they have accumulated more opportunities to pass on mutations.)

Vaccines are one factor, but they are one of hundreds. The bigger ones are exposure to radiation, pesticides, cigarette smoke and so on.

But in answer to your question, yes: Vaccines do cause mutations. That is pretty basic science.
 
2012-04-06 03:06:27 PM
i301.photobucket.com
 
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