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(RI Tag)   From the state that brought us "The Prayer Banner" comes "this mural is totally inappropriate because the man and woman standing together 'may not represent the live experience of all students'"   (www2.turnto10.com) divider line 106
    More: Asinine, murals  
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8572 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2012 at 11:54 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-06 12:31:00 PM  
I thought they were going to be halos, but it takes until the last 5 seconds of the video to actually show the image.

Nope, just wedding rings. I no longer see a point to this complaint.
 
2012-04-06 12:32:43 PM  

rudemix: Actually no one complained outside of a decision made at the school level by an admin. Don't let facts stop you, or your side from continuing your world of censorship though, Fireman.


So many controversies are caused by an administrator freaking out over something that is perfectly acceptable that would otherwise go unnoticed.

Not smart in this day and age, when state governments are desperately searching for ways to cut budgets, and noticing that administrative positions are too numerous and salaries too high. A stunt like this just reïnforces the perception that you don't have any real job responsibilities occupying your time.
 
2012-04-06 12:38:50 PM  
The Prayer Banner was a clear violation of the establishment clause.

The Christian community was consumed by hate, and many called for that poor girls death.

Just more fodder for the "I'm a Christian, unless you're different than me" crowd to gnash their teeth against and feed their persecution complex.

This is just stupid. Reminds me of a few local men causing a stir when they complained a mural that included an American flag needed to be fixed (Link) because it didn't follow the Flag Code and Old Glory wasn't featured more prominently than other nation's flags in the mural.

Difficulty: The Flag Code doesn't cover(and should never cover due to reasons of free speech) artistic renditions of the flag.
 
2012-04-06 12:41:13 PM  

dugitman: Disposable Rob: is this overt political correctness...

Yes.


Possibly. Yes, it could be that someone, somewhere found this kids doodle to be offensive and is rushing to protect the GLWTFBBQ communities before they become offended.

Or

The kids doodle looked fine on paper but now it's blown up to jumbo-tron sizes it looks like crap and the people involved are trying to back out of it slowly without causing offence to the kid... failing miserably at it as well.

I'm guessing somewhere inbetween the two.
 
2012-04-06 12:41:29 PM  

meat0918: The Prayer Banner was a clear violation of the establishment clause.

The Christian community was consumed by hate, and many called for that poor girls death.

Just more fodder for the "I'm a Christian, unless you're different than me" crowd to gnash their teeth against and feed their persecution complex.

This is just stupid. Reminds me of a few local men causing a stir when they complained a mural that included an American flag needed to be fixed (Link) because it didn't follow the Flag Code and Old Glory wasn't featured more prominently than other nation's flags in the mural.

Difficulty: The Flag Code doesn't cover(and should never cover due to reasons of free speech) artistic renditions of the flag.


The Flag Code isn't law.
 
2012-04-06 12:46:11 PM  

Vaneshi: dugitman: Disposable Rob: is this overt political correctness...

Yes.

Possibly. Yes, it could be that someone, somewhere found this kids doodle to be offensive and is rushing to protect the GLWTFBBQ communities before they become offended.

Or

The kids doodle looked fine on paper but now it's blown up to jumbo-tron sizes it looks like crap and the people involved are trying to back out of it slowly without causing offence to the kid... failing miserably at it as well.

I'm guessing somewhere inbetween the two.


Yeah, if someone could point me to the part where equal marriage rights was given as a reason by anyone with a stake in that issue, I would really appreciate it. Until then I'm calling it "general school derp".
 
2012-04-06 12:50:41 PM  

jst3p: meat0918: The Prayer Banner was a clear violation of the establishment clause.

The Christian community was consumed by hate, and many called for that poor girls death.

Just more fodder for the "I'm a Christian, unless you're different than me" crowd to gnash their teeth against and feed their persecution complex.

This is just stupid. Reminds me of a few local men causing a stir when they complained a mural that included an American flag needed to be fixed (Link) because it didn't follow the Flag Code and Old Glory wasn't featured more prominently than other nation's flags in the mural.

Difficulty: The Flag Code doesn't cover(and should never cover due to reasons of free speech) artistic renditions of the flag.

The Flag Code isn't law.


Que? (new window)
 
2012-04-06 12:52:39 PM  

Vaneshi: dugitman: Disposable Rob: is this overt political correctness...

Yes.

Possibly. Yes, it could be that someone, somewhere found this kids doodle to be offensive and is rushing to protect the GLWTFBBQ communities before they become offended.

Or

The kids doodle looked fine on paper but now it's blown up to jumbo-tron sizes it looks like crap and the people involved are trying to back out of it slowly without causing offence to the kid... failing miserably at it as well.

I'm guessing somewhere inbetween the two.


Or it could be that the admin who ordered it painted over had good intentions that he just didn't think through very much.

He may have just wanted to leave the kid's future more open-ended, and not necessarily imply any particular goal or endpoint as the norm. "Your future is what you want to make of it", and all that feel-good jazz. Or....he could just be a black-hearted villain who will stop at nothing to destroy happy heterosexual, christian marriages.
 
2012-04-06 12:55:32 PM  

Vaneshi: The kids doodle looked fine on paper but now it's blown up to jumbo-tron sizes it looks like crap and the people involved are trying to back out of it slowly without causing offence to the kid... failing miserably at it as well.


I would agree with this, except only the last panel(depicting the nuclear family raising the rings) will be painted over. The whole thing is artistically... challenging? to the audience, but only the last was targeted for omission. Though "general school derp" is a good blanket statement, as usual.
 
2012-04-06 12:57:55 PM  
If you go through life attempting not to offend anyone, you might as well move out into the desert and live in a cave as a hermit.

No matter what you do, SOMEONE will be offended. There's no way to avoid it. Human beings are essentially cantankerous pain in the arses. It takes laws to make them get along with each other -- and even then they created lawyers to argue endlessly about how such laws are applied.

I suspect if this student painted a flower on the wall, someone would have been offended.

Actually, in this day and age, if she stood in front of the wall contemplating a design, someone would have a problem with that.

Besides, even if you move into a cave, miles away from everyone else, someone will still have a problem with that.
 
2012-04-06 12:58:40 PM  

kid_icarus: He may have just wanted to leave the kid's future more open-ended, and not necessarily imply any particular goal or endpoint as the norm. "Your future is what you want to make of it", and all that feel-good jazz.


This possibility too. Though I think that is a general goal behind many acts of PC. The whole thing is just silly.
 
2012-04-06 01:00:44 PM  
is there any chance of this thread turning into a hot chick body painting thread?

/just checking... the school girl thread got pretty out of control yesterday.
 
2012-04-06 01:01:08 PM  

meat0918: jst3p: meat0918: The Prayer Banner was a clear violation of the establishment clause.

The Christian community was consumed by hate, and many called for that poor girls death.

Just more fodder for the "I'm a Christian, unless you're different than me" crowd to gnash their teeth against and feed their persecution complex.

This is just stupid. Reminds me of a few local men causing a stir when they complained a mural that included an American flag needed to be fixed (Link) because it didn't follow the Flag Code and Old Glory wasn't featured more prominently than other nation's flags in the mural.

Difficulty: The Flag Code doesn't cover(and should never cover due to reasons of free speech) artistic renditions of the flag.

The Flag Code isn't law.

Que? (new window)


Touche`

I meant it was not law in the sense that there are no penalties for violating it. Anti-sodomy laws still exist but they aren't enforceable either.
 
2012-04-06 01:04:06 PM  

dugitman: kid_icarus: He may have just wanted to leave the kid's future more open-ended, and not necessarily imply any particular goal or endpoint as the norm. "Your future is what you want to make of it", and all that feel-good jazz.

This possibility too. Though I think that is a general goal behind many acts of PC. The whole thing is just silly.


Oh yeah, I agree.

I was just saying he may have had a good intent that he just didn't think through. With younger generations marrying later and later (if at all) and divorce rates at around 50%, he may have thought it was a bad idea to imply to kids that marriage is life's ultimate goal and you're a failure if you don't achieve that. He didn't think it through very much, and IMHO he went way too far...but he might have meant well.
 
2012-04-06 01:06:18 PM  
I know it isn't in vogue, but if you watch the video the reporter clearly states that the last scene will be repainted. By the girl again, with her original drawing.

I still can't fathom what that administrator was thinking. Always, always, always know that inaction is less controversial than action, when all things are equal. He should have waited for the first "complaint" along the lines of his fever dream of what "Political Correctness" must be, not and try to head off the PC police at the pass.
 
2012-04-06 01:06:32 PM  

Diogenes: I really think if the parents and administrators and such just shut up and stayed out of this stuff, the kids would all be OK with it.

Is that how my life evolved as a gay dude? Nope. My life is one possible progression. She's showing another. It's not a value judgement. It's a choice. She can't portray every freaking possible outcome.

So ridiculous.


Thank you. Well said.

They should have been open to displaying a mural of a gay couple as well instead of removing this one. But I almost understand why. Easier to take this one down than to open up a can of worms with some kids looking to make drama by painting all sorts of different, controversial subjects and getting the religious/close minded in an uproar. Guaranteed some smart ass would have painted a dude/woman banging a dog or something.
 
2012-04-06 01:12:07 PM  

kid_icarus: dugitman: kid_icarus: He may have just wanted to leave the kid's future more open-ended, and not necessarily imply any particular goal or endpoint as the norm. "Your future is what you want to make of it", and all that feel-good jazz.

This possibility too. Though I think that is a general goal behind many acts of PC. The whole thing is just silly.

Oh yeah, I agree.

I was just saying he may have had a good intent that he just didn't think through. With younger generations marrying later and later (if at all) and divorce rates at around 50%, he may have thought it was a bad idea to imply to kids that marriage is life's ultimate goal and you're a failure if you don't achieve that. He didn't think it through very much, and IMHO he went way too far...but he might have meant well.


Oh that makes sense. "Get married, and pop out kids" is what a lot of Christian religious tell their kids. I can see why putting it as the ultimate goal in life could be a little bit preachy, but really it is so common I don't think anyone could seriously claim that the mural is coded propaganda to kids to be fruitful and multiply. It's just too generic.

And that art is awful.
 
2012-04-06 01:24:00 PM  
So I think we got this all straightened out.

1. The administrator who wanted it painted over is a dumbass
2. The mural is ugly

Next issue: Native American mascots

/jk
 
2012-04-06 01:37:12 PM  
KazamaSmokers: The "traditional marriage" depiction is not the problem. It's that she shows a pair of wedding rings over their heads, which I guess is exclusive to christianity, and THAT'S the problem, as it's a public school.

.
.david_gaithersburg
I don't know what it is, but something is telling me that you have never been anywhere close to being married. Or close to a female.


I have been married 20 years.
I am male.
This is the explanation the school administrators are giving. It is not my explanation.
 
2012-04-06 01:38:12 PM  
Oh, and fark off, touchhole.
 
2012-04-06 01:43:15 PM  

KazamaSmokers: Oh, and fark off, touchhole.


A bold statement, sir.
 
2012-04-06 01:46:40 PM  

microlith: False flag op! False flag op! The administrative staff is deliberately trying to start a fire here, I bet.


They didn't start the fire. It was always burning since the world's been turning
 
2012-04-06 01:48:02 PM  

Esc7: I still can't fathom what that administrator was thinking.


4.bp.blogspot.com

I could see an administrator who was/is in a bad marriage seeing this mural and thinking, "If I can just save one boy/girl...."
 
2012-04-06 01:49:41 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Some libby lib decided that traditional marriage excludes LGBTQ people, so the complaint goes up and the mural gets a nice coat of paint.


Damnit, now I wish I could change my username to LibbyLib.
 
2012-04-06 01:50:20 PM  
This was taken in Chicago's River North gallery district, a few blocks from where I work. You can't tell me that placement is coincidental...

i694.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-06 01:54:48 PM  

bjalfi: This was taken in Chicago's River North gallery district, a few blocks from where I work. You can't tell me that placement is coincidental...

[i694.photobucket.com image 640x478]


I don't think engineers look at the walls of the buildings to check for graffiti before submitting design proposals.
 
2012-04-06 01:55:47 PM  
On the one hand, I don't think I care, on the other hand, I can see a valid argument that the *last* thing a school should be teaching is that the only valid life path involves dating/marriage/relationships whoever or whatever that is to. Valid 'Path of Life' mural in a school: Pre-School, Middle School, High School, College, Getting A God Damn Job
 
2012-04-06 01:56:00 PM  

StaleCoffee: bjalfi: This was taken in Chicago's River North gallery district, a few blocks from where I work. You can't tell me that placement is coincidental...

[i694.photobucket.com image 640x478]

I don't think engineers look at the walls of the buildings to check for graffiti before submitting design proposals.


Also, that's awesome.
 
2012-04-06 02:05:01 PM  

StaleCoffee: bjalfi: This was taken in Chicago's River North gallery district, a few blocks from where I work. You can't tell me that placement is coincidental...

[i694.photobucket.com image 640x478]

I don't think engineers look at the walls of the buildings to check for graffiti before submitting design proposals.


Eh, if it had gone straight down, I could have believed that. But the design of the chute seems purposely made to cover up the Mesoamerican tatas.

Also, a bit of additional info: The opposite side of the alley is the car exit for a kind of posh high rise apartment building. That'd be the first thing residents see when they're driving out of the building every day. The chute appeared not long after the building went up.
 
2012-04-06 02:06:56 PM  

kendelrio: This is Fahrenheit 451 happening right in front of us.

Ok, I got the LGBT..... What's "Q"?


AverageAmericanGuy: "Queer". They're taking it back.


Yes and no.

Lesbian
Gay
Bisexual
Transgender
Queer / Questioning

"Questioning" means anyone who thinks that they might be LBGT, but isn't sure. It's just a way of saying that anyone who has uncertainty about their gender/sexual orientation/whatever is welcome to consider themselves part of the LGBTQ community without declaring themselves to be necessarily L,G,B, or T.

"Queer" is kind of a catch-all term for LGBT, yes, but it also includes a few other things, such as asexuality, which is none of the above.

So PART of the meaning behind the "Q" in LGBTQ is reappropriation or "taking it back" as AverageAmericanGuy put it, yes. But that's not all the "Q" is there for.
 
2012-04-06 02:11:34 PM  
I'm more disturbed by the comments where they say that kids are singing Lee Greenwood songs in schools. If that's the case it's too late, the apocalypse is already here.
 
2012-04-06 02:12:20 PM  

KazamaSmokers: The "traditional marriage" depiction is not the problem. It's that she shows a pair of wedding rings over their heads, which I guess is exclusive to christianity, and THAT'S the problem, as it's a public school.


kid_icarus: To be honest, I wasn't aware that wedding rings had any connection to religion, Christianity or otherwise. I've had atheist friends and friends of other faiths still exchange rings as part of their wedding ceremony.


Wedding rings predate Christianity by hundreds if not thousands of years. They may or may not have a religious origin, but they certainly don't come from Christianity.
 
2012-04-06 02:12:48 PM  

bjalfi: This was taken in Chicago's River North gallery district, a few blocks from where I work. You can't tell me that placement is coincidental...


i40.tinypic.com

There, I fixed it. Ha! That will show the man
 
2012-04-06 02:16:15 PM  

ciberido: kendelrio: This is Fahrenheit 451 happening right in front of us.

Ok, I got the LGBT..... What's "Q"?

AverageAmericanGuy: "Queer". They're taking it back.

Yes and no.

Lesbian
Gay
Bisexual
Transgender
Queer / Questioning

"Questioning" means anyone who thinks that they might be LBGT, but isn't sure. It's just a way of saying that anyone who has uncertainty about their gender/sexual orientation/whatever is welcome to consider themselves part of the LGBTQ community without declaring themselves to be necessarily L,G,B, or T.

"Queer" is kind of a catch-all term for LGBT, yes, but it also includes a few other things, such as asexuality, which is none of the above.

So PART of the meaning behind the "Q" in LGBTQ is reappropriation or "taking it back" as AverageAmericanGuy put it, yes. But that's not all the "Q" is there for.


So is it OK to ask someone if they are queer again?
 
2012-04-06 02:16:57 PM  

ciberido: "Queer" is kind of a catch-all term for LGBT, yes, but it also includes a few other things, such as asexuality, which is none of the above.


And if this is true why not just go with Q?
 
2012-04-06 02:37:50 PM  

jst3p: ciberido: "Queer" is kind of a catch-all term for LGBT, yes, but it also includes a few other things, such as asexuality, which is none of the above.

And if this is true why not just go with Q?


No idea, but the first person to call me queer gets a fist to the face. Might have something to do with it.
 
2012-04-06 02:38:49 PM  

jst3p: ciberido: "Queer" is kind of a catch-all term for LGBT, yes, but it also includes a few other things, such as asexuality, which is none of the above.

And if this is true why not just go with Q?


Because not all LGBT people like to use the word "queer." Some use it, some don't. That's the nature of reappropriation. If EVERYBODY used it, then it would already be fully reappropriated.

I personally call myself "queer" both for reappropriation and because it's easier to say than "LGBTQ" (especially since 9 times out of 10 I have to explain, what I mean by "LGBTQ" right after I say it). But not everybody in the LGBT community does, nor should I use it to describer anyone else who wouldn't want me to.
 
2012-04-06 02:42:24 PM  
Brother owns - 'scuse, owned - a 70 stall horse farm in Rhode Island.

He's sold it and moved the whole operation to Tennessee.

Because, he said, them be some Wow-Holy-Shiat Crazy People running the asylum.
 
2012-04-06 02:46:00 PM  

jst3p: So is it OK to ask someone if they are queer again?


No, but then, it's not ok in most circumstances to ask someone if they're gay, either, so your question is pretty close to irrelevant.

In the unlikely event you should ever find yourself in a situation where you want to know whether or not someone is gay, and you actually have any business asking, you may use "gay," "lesbian," "LGBT," or "LGBTQ."
 
2012-04-06 02:53:56 PM  
I take offense as well. How many students actually graduate these days?
 
2012-04-06 03:04:09 PM  

ciberido: jst3p: So is it OK to ask someone if they are queer again?

No, but then, it's not ok in most circumstances to ask someone if they're gay, either, so your question is pretty close to irrelevant.

In the unlikely event you should ever find yourself in a situation where you want to know whether or not someone is gay, and you actually have any business asking, you may use "gay," "lesbian," "LGBT," or "LGBTQ."


So you can't even inquire about which team someone plays on? Seems like an important question at some phase of a relationship/friendship/acquaintance. We are sexual beings after all.
 
2012-04-06 03:42:12 PM  

ciberido: jst3p: So is it OK to ask someone if they are queer again?

No, but then, it's not ok in most circumstances to ask someone if they're gay, either, so your question is pretty close to irrelevant.

In the unlikely event you should ever find yourself in a situation where you want to know whether or not someone is gay, and you actually have any business asking, you may use "gay," "lesbian," "LGBT," or "LGBTQ."


When I was living in San Diego, most of my friends were LGBT . I was asked many times by people we would come across if I was gay or straight. It never occurred to be to be insulted by the question.
Nor did anyone seem the least bit insulted if I inquired about their sexuality. An important question when meeting an attractive female running in that circle of friends.
Now that was a few years ago, but I can't believe things have changed that much.
 
2012-04-06 03:46:51 PM  

bjalfi: StaleCoffee: bjalfi: This was taken in Chicago's River North gallery district, a few blocks from where I work. You can't tell me that placement is coincidental...

[i694.photobucket.com image 640x478]

I don't think engineers look at the walls of the buildings to check for graffiti before submitting design proposals.

Eh, if it had gone straight down, I could have believed that. But the design of the chute seems purposely made to cover up the Mesoamerican tatas.

Also, a bit of additional info: The opposite side of the alley is the car exit for a kind of posh high rise apartment building. That'd be the first thing residents see when they're driving out of the building every day. The chute appeared not long after the building went up.


I think it's more likely the vent or whatever it's going into lined up with the windows above and it was easier to shunt it to the side than knock out part of the wall or chute over however many windows.

In either case, still funny.
 
2012-04-06 03:52:31 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Some libby lib decided that traditional marriage excludes LGBTQ people, so the complaint goes up and the mural gets a nice coat of paint.

This is Fahrenheit 451 happening right in front of us.


Have you ever read Fahrenheit 451? It's not about censorship at all. Books are burned, yes, but not because of censure. They're burned because with TV and other media, they're judged to serve no purpose.

Hate that everyone thinks it's about censorship. Even Bradbury himself has flatly said it is not.
 
2012-04-06 04:28:08 PM  

kid_icarus: Or it could be that the admin who ordered it painted over had good intentions that he just didn't think through very much.

He may have just wanted to leave the kid's future more open-ended, and not necessarily imply any particular goal or endpoint as the norm. "Your future is what you want to make of it", and all that feel-good jazz. Or....he could just be a black-hearted villain who will stop at nothing to destroy happy heterosexual, christian marriages.


That was my first thought...the mural could trail off into a cloud of different career choices; science, medicine, engineering, construction, education, that sort of thing. It's hard to see how that might offend someone, but I'm sure some would still give it a go.
 
2012-04-06 04:31:38 PM  

Sword and Shield: AverageAmericanGuy: Some libby lib decided that traditional marriage excludes LGBTQ people, so the complaint goes up and the mural gets a nice coat of paint.

This is Fahrenheit 451 happening right in front of us.

Have you ever read Fahrenheit 451? It's not about censorship at all. Books are burned, yes, but not because of censure. They're burned because with TV and other media, they're judged to serve no purpose.

Hate that everyone thinks it's about censorship. Even Bradbury himself has flatly said it is not.


I was never aware of that. Interesting.

What's also interesting is that in his 1979 coda he more or less says it is:

"Fire-Captain Beatty, in my novel Fahrenheit 451, described how the books were burned first by minorities, each ripping a page or a paragraph from this book, then that, until the day came when the books were empty and the minds shut and the libraries closed forever.

"Shut the door, they're coming through the window, shut the window, they're coming through the door," are the words to an old song. They fit my life-style with newly arriving butcher/censors every month. Only six weeks ago, I discovered that, over the years, some cubby-hole editors at Ballantine Books, fearful of contaminating the young, had, bit by bit, censored some 75 separate sections from the novel. Students, reading the novel which, after all, deals with censorship and book-burning in the future, wrote to tell me of this exquisite irony. Judy-Lynn Del Rey, one of the new Ballantine editors, is having the entire book reset and republished this summer with all the damns and hells back in place."

but then in other sources he flat out says it is not about censorship but people turning into idiots due to mass media making books obsolete and disappearing.

Anyway, I learned something today. Thanks.
 
2012-04-06 04:34:27 PM  

buckler: kid_icarus: Or it could be that the admin who ordered it painted over had good intentions that he just didn't think through very much.

He may have just wanted to leave the kid's future more open-ended, and not necessarily imply any particular goal or endpoint as the norm. "Your future is what you want to make of it", and all that feel-good jazz. Or....he could just be a black-hearted villain who will stop at nothing to destroy happy heterosexual, christian marriages.

That was my first thought...the mural could trail off into a cloud of different career choices; science, medicine, engineering, construction, education, that sort of thing. It's hard to see how that might offend someone, but I'm sure some would still give it a go.



Should have just ended with this...

i41.tinypic.com

No arguments to be had there.
 
2012-04-06 04:56:03 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Should have just ended with this...



No arguments to be had there.


Durn tootin'
 
2012-04-06 05:01:05 PM  
Getting married is offensive and/or religious? I've gotta make some phone calls. So many people I know have been offending me with their marriage all these years, and I didn't realize it until just now!
 
2012-04-06 07:07:13 PM  

Mr. Holmes: Getting married is offensive and/or religious? I've gotta make some phone calls. So many people I know have been offending me with their marriage all these years, and I didn't realize it until just now!


i'm not offended by the wedding. it's the terrible reception food i'm sick of.
 
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